need to increase kH/stabilize pH

[LM]

Hi all,

I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF and HOT
magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable around
6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water changes.
our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around 2 or 3.
In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra loaches and
bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen them for
months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of them shot
out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard to say).
I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2 years after
the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
frequency.

but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty wan and
dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5" puny
blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks. also my
java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep up with
the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.

Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green, I was
happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were dead!!!

In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate 50% water
change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero nitrite. I
didn't check nitrate.

I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to stabilize
the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating the pH
wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to shock the
fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns yellow..
so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4... so at
least I know it's doing something.

Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I do to
prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I try
to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to leech some
minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail shells
from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change, I didn't
see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3 years..)

I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash. thought they
were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra loaches were
more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank except for
the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more like 2.5
years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..

once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep them
happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their buddies
gone.

linda

[Tony Volk]

Baking soda should do the trick. It's nice, cheap, and very powerful. In
small amounts, it will only affect our KH, in larger amounts, it will affect
both the kH and pH. Here are a couple of web pages with info about dosing
amounts:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2.html
http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp

Be sure to add *small* amounts at a time, no more than one teaspoon (5mLs),
and dissolve it in a small container with some tank water first (i.e., don't
just pour the baking soda into your aquarium). Test after each addition,
and give some time between additions. That should solve both your problems
in one go. Cheers,

Tony

"LM" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF and HOT
> magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable around
> 6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water changes.
> our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around 2 or 3.
> In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra loaches
and
> bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen them for
> months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of them
shot
> out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard to
say).
> I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2 years after
> the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
> frequency.
>
> but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty wan and
> dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5" puny
> blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks. also my
> java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep up with
> the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.
>
> Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green, I was
> happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were dead!!!
>
> In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate 50%
water
> change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero nitrite. I
> didn't check nitrate.
>
> I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to stabilize
> the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating the
pH
> wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to shock
the
> fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns yellow..
> so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4... so at
> least I know it's doing something.
>
> Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I do to
> prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I try
> to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to leech
some
> minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail shells
> from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change, I
didn't
> see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3
years..)
>
> I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash. thought they
> were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra loaches
were
> more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank except
for
> the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more like
2.5
> years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..
>
> once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep them
> happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their buddies
> gone.
>
> linda
>
>

[NetMax]

I would also investigate the cause (probably OTS) of your pH crash.
While it varies by fishload and tank size, it sounds like you're not
doing enough water changes and gravel vacuuming.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml and scroll down to
OTS. Many better articles exist on the net.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Tony Volk" > wrote in message
...
> Baking soda should do the trick. It's nice, cheap, and very powerful.
> In
> small amounts, it will only affect our KH, in larger amounts, it will
> affect
> both the kH and pH. Here are a couple of web pages with info about
> dosing
> amounts:
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2.html
> http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp
>
> Be sure to add *small* amounts at a time, no more than one teaspoon
> (5mLs),
> and dissolve it in a small container with some tank water first (i.e.,
> don't
> just pour the baking soda into your aquarium). Test after each
> addition,
> and give some time between additions. That should solve both your
> problems
> in one go. Cheers,
>
> Tony
>
> "LM" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF and
>> HOT
>> magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable
>> around
>> 6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water
>> changes.
>> our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around 2
>> or 3.
>> In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra
>> loaches
> and
>> bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen them
>> for
>> months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of them
> shot
>> out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard to
> say).
>> I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2 years
>> after
>> the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
>> frequency.
>>
>> but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty wan
>> and
>> dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5"
>> puny
>> blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks. also
>> my
>> java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep up
>> with
>> the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.
>>
>> Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green, I
>> was
>> happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were
>> dead!!!
>>
>> In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate 50%
> water
>> change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero nitrite.
>> I
>> didn't check nitrate.
>>
>> I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to
>> stabilize
>> the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating
>> the
> pH
>> wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to
>> shock
> the
>> fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns
>> yellow..
>> so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4...
>> so at
>> least I know it's doing something.
>>
>> Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I
>> do to
>> prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I
>> try
>> to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to
>> leech
> some
>> minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail
>> shells
>> from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change, I
> didn't
>> see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3
> years..)
>>
>> I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash. thought
>> they
>> were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra loaches
> were
>> more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank
>> except
> for
>> the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more
>> like
> 2.5
>> years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..
>>
>> once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep
>> them
>> happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their
>> buddies
>> gone.
>>
>> linda
>>
>>
>
>

[LM]

Hi NetMax,

great web site!

yeah.. does sound like a textbook-case sof****er OTS.. argh! I guess
nitrate level isn't a good enough measure for water quality :-( I have
fautily assumed that as long as plants eat up nitrates, zero ammonia, and kH
is stable, it's ok.. and since kH rarely changed when I tested, I stopped
testing for them. i guess the explosive plant growths have somehow depleted
the kH quickly.. sigh.. need to add kH test back into the routine again :-(

I do vaccuum during water changes (every 1.5mo, 50% change. but I'll
increase the frequency now).. I'll do another water change in a few days
and vaccuum more then.

also, should I hold off on trying to increase kH while doing water changes
(your web site mentioned pH bounce back when things are cleaned)? the tap
water is like kH=2... (and yeah.. I try to keep sof****er-friendly fish in
there).

is sodium bicarbonate better than pH.Stable? I vaguely remember looking at
the ingredient and noticing that pH.Stable wasn't baking soda.

linda


"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> I would also investigate the cause (probably OTS) of your pH crash.
> While it varies by fishload and tank size, it sounds like you're not
> doing enough water changes and gravel vacuuming.
> http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml and scroll down to
> OTS. Many better articles exist on the net.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
> "Tony Volk" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Baking soda should do the trick. It's nice, cheap, and very powerful.
> > In
> > small amounts, it will only affect our KH, in larger amounts, it will
> > affect
> > both the kH and pH. Here are a couple of web pages with info about
> > dosing
> > amounts:
> >
> > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2.html
> > http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp
> >
> > Be sure to add *small* amounts at a time, no more than one teaspoon
> > (5mLs),
> > and dissolve it in a small container with some tank water first (i.e.,
> > don't
> > just pour the baking soda into your aquarium). Test after each
> > addition,
> > and give some time between additions. That should solve both your
> > problems
> > in one go. Cheers,
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > "LM" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF and
> >> HOT
> >> magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable
> >> around
> >> 6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water
> >> changes.
> >> our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around 2
> >> or 3.
> >> In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra
> >> loaches
> > and
> >> bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen them
> >> for
> >> months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of them
> > shot
> >> out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard to
> > say).
> >> I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2 years
> >> after
> >> the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
> >> frequency.
> >>
> >> but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty wan
> >> and
> >> dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5"
> >> puny
> >> blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks. also
> >> my
> >> java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep up
> >> with
> >> the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.
> >>
> >> Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green, I
> >> was
> >> happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were
> >> dead!!!
> >>
> >> In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate 50%
> > water
> >> change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero nitrite.
> >> I
> >> didn't check nitrate.
> >>
> >> I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to
> >> stabilize
> >> the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating
> >> the
> > pH
> >> wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to
> >> shock
> > the
> >> fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns
> >> yellow..
> >> so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4...
> >> so at
> >> least I know it's doing something.
> >>
> >> Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I
> >> do to
> >> prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I
> >> try
> >> to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to
> >> leech
> > some
> >> minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail
> >> shells
> >> from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change, I
> > didn't
> >> see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3
> > years..)
> >>
> >> I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash. thought
> >> they
> >> were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra loaches
> > were
> >> more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank
> >> except
> > for
> >> the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more
> >> like
> > 2.5
> >> years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..
> >>
> >> once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep
> >> them
> >> happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their
> >> buddies
> >> gone.
> >>
> >> linda
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "LM" > Spake Unto All:

>In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!!

That's actually pretty close to the home waters most of the fish
you've got. I've got tetras and cichlids in water that's pH 4.5 and is
almost pure distilled water.

>Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I do to
>prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I try
>to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to leech some
>minerals into the water constantly?

1) Next time, buy bicarbonate a.k.a. baking soda (*not* baking
powder!). That's pure KH, and probably what is in that buffer (it may
also be phosphate-based). Dissolve a teaspoon bicarbonate in some
aquarium water, pour in the aquarium, wait an hour, measure KH/pH,
repeat if necessary. When you reach your target pH OR KH of about 4,
stop. This will allow you to quickly raise KH/pH when there's an
imediate crisis. However, changing KH/pH quickly can kill fish, so I'd
recommend...

2) ...using seashells, cuttlefish bone or some limestone as a good and
slower way of raising and maintaining pH and KH. If you add sufficient
amounts it'll keep pH at 7.5 until it's used up (which will likely
take years).

>see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3 years..)

Typically freshwater snail shells are mostly protein, and protein
decomposes. What little calcium there is dissolves quickly - usually a
freshwater snail shells dissolve completely in a few months. Heavily
calcified snails like Malaysian tower snails take longer.

>I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash.

They're from streams in the amazon basin. pH 6 is in the _high_ reach
of their natural spectrum, but they have no problem with higher pH's,
and it's easier to keep high pH's stable.

The zebra loaches are from asian streams with high pH & KH, a
completely different environment, so it's not surprising they turned
out to be more sensitive.

Also, the reason your plants don't do well isn't the pH, plants have
no problem with a pH 6 (or 4.5 for that matter). If I was to guess,
I'd say the plants are carbon dioxide starved, and that it's them,
together with your filter bacteria, that's used up the available
bicarbonate (the KH).

[NetMax]

Regarding pH Stable, I'm not familiar with the product. Regarding water
changes vs baking soda, both will achieve an increase in kH to different
degrees, but water changes will dilute the effect of the baking soda. I
try to avoid any additives as it's my preference to not do anything which
restricts my ability to do water changes. In cases where it's not OTS,
source water is very low in kH and the pH drops shortly after a water
change, then the baking soda becomes a handy assistant (added to new
water). In all cases, your objective to minimize the pH and gH rate of
change that the fish are exposed to, so whatever works best in your
situation. As noted by others, low pH is not generally a killer of fish
(but it does do a number on your bacteria). It's the rollercoaster
osmotic pressure ride that is stressful. There are many different
strategies used for pH stability. My preference is to use dissolving
minerals, as they tend to be self-adjusting (they dissolve faster as the
water becomes more acidic). I've heard that some acids also have some
(perhaps negligible) buffering capability (tannins?) but I've no
experience with them.

Regarding your plants, I think it's low kH = low pH = high CO2 and
dormant bacteria = rich ammonium/CO2 elixir as plant food. This is why
aquatic plants biotope so well with fish (they absorb problem
conditions), and bigger tanks are better for fish (large size slows all
reactions reducing the shock on the fish). The smaller the tank and/or
less buffer in the water, the greater the challenge.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"LM" > wrote in message
...
> Hi NetMax,
>
> great web site!
>
> yeah.. does sound like a textbook-case sof****er OTS.. argh! I guess
> nitrate level isn't a good enough measure for water quality :-( I have
> fautily assumed that as long as plants eat up nitrates, zero ammonia,
> and kH
> is stable, it's ok.. and since kH rarely changed when I tested, I
> stopped
> testing for them. i guess the explosive plant growths have somehow
> depleted
> the kH quickly.. sigh.. need to add kH test back into the routine
> again :-(
>
> I do vaccuum during water changes (every 1.5mo, 50% change. but I'll
> increase the frequency now).. I'll do another water change in a few
> days
> and vaccuum more then.
>
> also, should I hold off on trying to increase kH while doing water
> changes
> (your web site mentioned pH bounce back when things are cleaned)? the
> tap
> water is like kH=2... (and yeah.. I try to keep sof****er-friendly fish
> in
> there).
>
> is sodium bicarbonate better than pH.Stable? I vaguely remember
> looking at
> the ingredient and noticing that pH.Stable wasn't baking soda.
>
> linda
>
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I would also investigate the cause (probably OTS) of your pH crash.
>> While it varies by fishload and tank size, it sounds like you're not
>> doing enough water changes and gravel vacuuming.
>> http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml and scroll down to
>> OTS. Many better articles exist on the net.
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>> "Tony Volk" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Baking soda should do the trick. It's nice, cheap, and very
>> > powerful.
>> > In
>> > small amounts, it will only affect our KH, in larger amounts, it
>> > will
>> > affect
>> > both the kH and pH. Here are a couple of web pages with info about
>> > dosing
>> > amounts:
>> >
>> > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2.html
>> > http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp
>> >
>> > Be sure to add *small* amounts at a time, no more than one teaspoon
>> > (5mLs),
>> > and dissolve it in a small container with some tank water first
>> > (i.e.,
>> > don't
>> > just pour the baking soda into your aquarium). Test after each
>> > addition,
>> > and give some time between additions. That should solve both your
>> > problems
>> > in one go. Cheers,
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> > "LM" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF
>> >> and
>> >> HOT
>> >> magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable
>> >> around
>> >> 6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water
>> >> changes.
>> >> our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around
>> >> 2
>> >> or 3.
>> >> In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra
>> >> loaches
>> > and
>> >> bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen
>> >> them
>> >> for
>> >> months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of
>> >> them
>> > shot
>> >> out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard
>> >> to
>> > say).
>> >> I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2
>> >> years
>> >> after
>> >> the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
>> >> frequency.
>> >>
>> >> but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty
>> >> wan
>> >> and
>> >> dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5"
>> >> puny
>> >> blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks.
>> >> also
>> >> my
>> >> java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep
>> >> up
>> >> with
>> >> the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.
>> >>
>> >> Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green,
>> >> I
>> >> was
>> >> happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were
>> >> dead!!!
>> >>
>> >> In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate
>> >> 50%
>> > water
>> >> change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero
>> >> nitrite.
>> >> I
>> >> didn't check nitrate.
>> >>
>> >> I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to
>> >> stabilize
>> >> the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is
>> >> fluctuating
>> >> the
>> > pH
>> >> wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to
>> >> shock
>> > the
>> >> fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns
>> >> yellow..
>> >> so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about
>> >> 6.4...
>> >> so at
>> >> least I know it's doing something.
>> >>
>> >> Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should
>> >> I
>> >> do to
>> >> prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high
>> >> should I
>> >> try
>> >> to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to
>> >> leech
>> > some
>> >> minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail
>> >> shells
>> >> from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change,
>> >> I
>> > didn't
>> >> see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3
>> > years..)
>> >>
>> >> I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash.
>> >> thought
>> >> they
>> >> were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra
>> >> loaches
>> > were
>> >> more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank
>> >> except
>> > for
>> >> the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more
>> >> like
>> > 2.5
>> >> years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..
>> >>
>> >> once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep
>> >> them
>> >> happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their
>> >> buddies
>> >> gone.
>> >>
>> >> linda
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[LM]

Hi Tony,

I've been adding pH stable (I think it's mostly baking soda in more fine
powder form with few other mineral salts in it) since I already have it (and
my baking powder is suspect being in the fridge for so long) may be about
1/2 teaspoon in 1cup water, slowly trickling it in in the direct flow of the
powerheads for the past 3 days... pH is changing but no sign of kH
changing.. I wait over 24 hours before adding more to reduce pH shock to
the fish..

according to the label, I should be getting about kH=2 by now, but so far,
it's still registering 1 or less.. I guess the buffer is just getting eaten
up quickly.

linda

"Tony Volk" > wrote in message
...
> Baking soda should do the trick. It's nice, cheap, and very powerful. In
> small amounts, it will only affect our KH, in larger amounts, it will
affect
> both the kH and pH. Here are a couple of web pages with info about dosing
> amounts:
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2.html
> http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp
>
> Be sure to add *small* amounts at a time, no more than one teaspoon
(5mLs),
> and dissolve it in a small container with some tank water first (i.e.,
don't
> just pour the baking soda into your aquarium). Test after each addition,
> and give some time between additions. That should solve both your
problems
> in one go. Cheers,
>
> Tony
>
> "LM" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF and
HOT
> > magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable around
> > 6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water changes.
> > our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around 2 or
3.
> > In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra loaches
> and
> > bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen them for
> > months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of them
> shot
> > out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard to
> say).
> > I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2 years
after
> > the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
> > frequency.
> >
> > but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty wan
and
> > dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5" puny
> > blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks. also my
> > java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep up
with
> > the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.
> >
> > Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green, I was
> > happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were
dead!!!
> >
> > In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate 50%
> water
> > change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero nitrite.
I
> > didn't check nitrate.
> >
> > I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to
stabilize
> > the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating the
> pH
> > wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to shock
> the
> > fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns
yellow..
> > so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4... so
at
> > least I know it's doing something.
> >
> > Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I do
to
> > prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I
try
> > to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to leech
> some
> > minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail
shells
> > from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change, I
> didn't
> > see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3
> years..)
> >
> > I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash. thought
they
> > were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra loaches
> were
> > more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank except
> for
> > the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more like
> 2.5
> > years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..
> >
> > once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep them
> > happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their buddies
> > gone.
> >
> > linda
> >
> >
>
>

[Tony Volk]

I don't remember the exact details of which species can, but I do know that
some plants can get their carbon from carbonate, meaning your plants can
actively reduce your kH levels. So can certain bacteria. I can't give you
specific advice about pH stable, but I had soft OTS water, and baking soda
cleared up that problem very nicely. I've had to add a teaspoon or two once
more (in a 55 gallon), but that's it. Heck, see if you already have any
baking soda in your kitchen and try it out! Just remember to add it slowly.
It sounds like you're on the right track. Just take it easy and things will
rebalance. Cheers,

Tony

"LM" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Tony,
>
> I've been adding pH stable (I think it's mostly baking soda in more fine
> powder form with few other mineral salts in it) since I already have it
(and
> my baking powder is suspect being in the fridge for so long) may be about
> 1/2 teaspoon in 1cup water, slowly trickling it in in the direct flow of
the
> powerheads for the past 3 days... pH is changing but no sign of kH
> changing.. I wait over 24 hours before adding more to reduce pH shock to
> the fish..
>
> according to the label, I should be getting about kH=2 by now, but so far,
> it's still registering 1 or less.. I guess the buffer is just getting
eaten
> up quickly.
>
> linda
>
> "Tony Volk" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Baking soda should do the trick. It's nice, cheap, and very powerful.
In
> > small amounts, it will only affect our KH, in larger amounts, it will
> affect
> > both the kH and pH. Here are a couple of web pages with info about
dosing
> > amounts:
> >
> > http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2.html
> > http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp
> >
> > Be sure to add *small* amounts at a time, no more than one teaspoon
> (5mLs),
> > and dissolve it in a small container with some tank water first (i.e.,
> don't
> > just pour the baking soda into your aquarium). Test after each
addition,
> > and give some time between additions. That should solve both your
> problems
> > in one go. Cheers,
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > "LM" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've had a 37G tall tank for about 3 years now. it's been on UGF and
> HOT
> > > magnum with bunch of live plants. usually the pH has been stable
around
> > > 6.8, zero nitrite, zero ammonia, nitrate~10-20ppm between water
changes.
> > > our tap water is very soft, so typically the GH/kH has been around 2
or
> 3.
> > > In the tank there are 4 fat SAEs, 4 pearl gouramis, and 5 zebra
loaches
> > and
> > > bunch of otos (I thought otos were all dead since I hadn't seen them
for
> > > months, but when I was doing the emergency water change, three of them
> > shot
> > > out of their hiding, so... there may be couple more in there. hard to
> > say).
> > > I've been doing water changes every 1.5mo or so for the past 2 years
> after
> > > the tank had stabilized, and water chemistry looked good with that
> > > frequency.
> > >
> > > but in the past 2 months, my sword plants that were looking pretty wan
> and
> > > dying experienced some explosive revival. it went from being a 5"
puny
> > > blimps in the tank to a whopping 15" bushy beauty within weeks. also
my
> > > java fern is becoming gigantic (6-8" leaf blade.. HUGE). to keep up
> with
> > > the growths, I increased the plant fertilization.
> > >
> > > Puzzled, but since the tank looked great again with lots of green, I
was
> > > happy. but 3 days ago, I realized three of my zebra loaches were
> dead!!!
> > >
> > > In panic, I checked the water: kH<1, pH<6.0!!! I did an immediate 50%
> > water
> > > change. kH was still <1, and the pH~6.0. zero ammonia, zero nitrite.
> I
> > > didn't check nitrate.
> > >
> > > I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to
> stabilize
> > > the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating
the
> > pH
> > > wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to
shock
> > the
> > > fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns
> yellow..
> > > so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4...
so
> at
> > > least I know it's doing something.
> > >
> > > Other than increasing the water change frequency, what else should I
do
> to
> > > prevent this kind of crash happening in the future? how high should I
> try
> > > to increase the kH? should I put some shell of some shell fish to
leech
> > some
> > > minerals into the water constantly? (there used to be lots of snail
> shells
> > > from all the snails the loaches ate, but when I did a water change, I
> > didn't
> > > see any flating up.. may be the shells all dissolved in the past 3
> > years..)
> > >
> > > I was actually shocked that the otos survived the pH crash. thought
> they
> > > were the least hardy of the fish I have, but I guess the zebra loaches
> > were
> > > more sensivite :-( I feel terrible... all the fish in the tank
except
> > for
> > > the otos have been resident in that tank for at least 2 years, more
like
> > 2.5
> > > years... so they're not the youngest of fish, but..
> > >
> > > once the tank stabilizes, I have to get more zebra loaches to keep
them
> > > happy. the pair in the tank looks pretty scared with all their
buddies
> > > gone.
> > >
> > > linda
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[George Pontis]

In article >,
says...
> ...
>
> I started adding Kent's pH.Stable, hoping to increase the kH to stabilize
> the pH more (I'm assuming the plant respiration cycle is fluctuating the pH
> wildly). over the past 3 days of slowly adding pH.Stable as not to shock the
> fish, the kH is still around 1 (one drop and the indicator turns yellow..
> so.. it's less than 1, I guess), although pH is rose to about 6.4... so at
> least I know it's doing something.
> ...

The label on Kent Freshwater pH Stable says it contains "carbonic acid monosodium
salts". This is a fancy name for baking soda,, a.k.a. sodium bicarbonate. The
consumer would have an attack if they picked up the jar of this or similar product
and it said "baking soda, 1/2 lb, ... $8". Thus we get the imaginative name. You
can continue to use it and then refill the jar with baking soda for equivalent
results if you need more.