Can I grow a lotus in the UK? From 15 year-old seeds?

[Alan Silver]

Hello,

My wife was clearing out a drawer the other day, and she came across a
package containing some lotus seeds that I was given by someone I met
about 15 years ago. I put them away, intending to find out how to grow
them one day and never did ;-)

Anyway, so I have two basic questions...

1) Will 15 year-old seeds be any good? I've looked at quite a few sites
about growing these plants and it seems that they will last a long time,
but I haven't seen any real numbers. This isn't such a huge question as
I can simply try them and see if anything happens. If not, I've only
lost a bit of water ;-)

2) More to the point, I live in the sun-drenched tropics of North West
England (ahem). Most of the sites I've seen explaining how to grow lotus
seem to be from people living in warm climates. It's very cold and wet
here at the moment, and I don't have a pond anyway!! Can these plants be
grown successfully indoors, and if so, do I need anything special for
them? One site I saw said they need long periods of intense light, which
doesn't sound like England in the winter!! Even in the summer we don't
get intense sunlight, in fact we count ourselves lucky if we get *any*
sunlight!!

So, can I grow them? TIA for any help

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Lilly]

Looks like you can. Quick Google search reveals;

Centuries-old lotus seeds germinated by UCLA scientists
UCLA scientists germinated lotus seeds nearly 500 years old from lotus
fruits recovered
from a lotus lake in China - the first time new plants have been ...
www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ 2002-02/uoc--cls022102.php - 8k -
Cached - Similar pages

Centuries-old lotus seeds germinated by UCLA scientists
.... An international team led by UCLA scientists germinated lotus seeds
nearly 500 years
old from lotus fruits recovered from an ancient lotus lake in
northeastern ...
www.scienceblog.com/community/ older/2002/C/20025556.html - 8k - Cached
- Similar pages

[kathy]

Found a faq regarding sunlight
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: How much sunlight does a lotus need to bloom?
A:
A lotus will flower in six hours or more direct sunlight. More sunlight
means more flowering and stronger stems for leaves and flowers. Lower
sunlight duration makes stems weak, allowing leaves to fall over
easily. Flowering is dependent upon adequate fertilization.

So it looks like you can get the seeds to sprout and it will be an
experiment to see if they will bloom in England's summer.
Let us know what happens!

kathy

[Derek Broughton]

Alan Silver wrote:

> 1) Will 15 year-old seeds be any good? I've looked at quite a few sites
> about growing these plants and it seems that they will last a long time,
> but I haven't seen any real numbers. This isn't such a huge question as
> I can simply try them and see if anything happens. If not, I've only
> lost a bit of water ;-)

Millenia? LOL. 15 years isn't enough for them to even be considered
suspect!

> 2) More to the point, I live in the sun-drenched tropics of North West
> England (ahem).

Lovely place that. Lived a few years in Whitehaven. I don't remember there
being any sun...

> Most of the sites I've seen explaining how to grow lotus
> seem to be from people living in warm climates. It's very cold and wet
> here at the moment, and I don't have a pond anyway!! Can these plants be
> grown successfully indoors, and if so, do I need anything special for
> them? One site I saw said they need long periods of intense light, which
> doesn't sound like England in the winter!! Even in the summer we don't
> get intense sunlight, in fact we count ourselves lucky if we get *any*
> sunlight!!

They definitely won't grow in England in the winter. They're not tropicals,
though, and they grew in _my_ climate in Ontario, Canada - outside year
round - so you can definitely raise them. Indoors? Probably not. You
need at least a half-barrel outside.
--
derek

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:17:32 -0400, Derek Broughton > wrote:

>> 1) Will 15 year-old seeds be any good? >

>They definitely won't grow in England in the winter. They're not tropicals,
>though, and they grew in _my_ climate in Ontario, Canada - outside year
>round - so you can definitely raise them. Indoors? Probably not. You
>need at least a half-barrel outside.

But..... she could get them started inside to transfer them out come
spring. :o) I've found the black plastic drip pans for oil, excellent and
reasonably pricee to start lotus tubers in, why not seeds? ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Alan Silver]

>Looks like you can. Quick Google search reveals;

<g> looks like 15 years isn't so old then ;-)

Thanks

>Centuries-old lotus seeds germinated by UCLA scientists
>UCLA scientists germinated lotus seeds nearly 500 years old from lotus
>fruits recovered
>from a lotus lake in China - the first time new plants have been ...
>www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ 2002-02/uoc--cls022102.php - 8k -
>Cached - Similar pages
>
>Centuries-old lotus seeds germinated by UCLA scientists
>... An international team led by UCLA scientists germinated lotus seeds
>nearly 500 years
>old from lotus fruits recovered from an ancient lotus lake in
>northeastern ...
>www.scienceblog.com/community/ older/2002/C/20025556.html - 8k - Cached
>- Similar pages
>

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Alan Silver]

>Found a faq regarding sunlight

Thanks for that. Trouble is that we get a lot of rain, so even if we had
the sunshine (which isn't certain), I would be nervous about leaving the
plant outside as it could get battered by the rain.

Oh well, one way to try it I suppose ;-)

Do you know if it has to be direct (presumably meaning without any
intervening substances) sunlight, or would it like sunshine through a
window? We have a sunny (depending on the weather) kitchen windowsill
that might be fine. We have a loquat growing there which is doing quite
well.

>Q: How much sunlight does a lotus need to bloom?
>A:
>A lotus will flower in six hours or more direct sunlight. More sunlight
>means more flowering and stronger stems for leaves and flowers. Lower
>sunlight duration makes stems weak, allowing leaves to fall over
>easily. Flowering is dependent upon adequate fertilization.
>
>So it looks like you can get the seeds to sprout and it will be an
>experiment to see if they will bloom in England's summer.
>Let us know what happens!
>
>kathy
>

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Alan Silver]

>Alan Silver wrote:
>
>> 1) Will 15 year-old seeds be any good? I've looked at quite a few sites
>> about growing these plants and it seems that they will last a long time,
>> but I haven't seen any real numbers. This isn't such a huge question as
>> I can simply try them and see if anything happens. If not, I've only
>> lost a bit of water ;-)
>
>Millenia? LOL. 15 years isn't enough for them to even be considered
>suspect!

<g> So I see from the other posts!!

>> 2) More to the point, I live in the sun-drenched tropics of North West
>> England (ahem).
>
>Lovely place that. Lived a few years in Whitehaven. I don't remember there
>being any sun...

We're not quite as far north or west as Whitehaven, so we get a little
more sun ... but not much !!

>> Most of the sites I've seen explaining how to grow lotus
>> seem to be from people living in warm climates. It's very cold and wet
>> here at the moment, and I don't have a pond anyway!! Can these plants be
>> grown successfully indoors, and if so, do I need anything special for
>> them? One site I saw said they need long periods of intense light, which
>> doesn't sound like England in the winter!! Even in the summer we don't
>> get intense sunlight, in fact we count ourselves lucky if we get *any*
>> sunlight!!
>
>They definitely won't grow in England in the winter. They're not tropicals,
>though, and they grew in _my_ climate in Ontario, Canada - outside year
>round - so you can definitely raise them. Indoors? Probably not. You
>need at least a half-barrel outside.

Hmm, could be a problem there. We don't really have anywhere to put them
inside in the winter. Apart from the basic lack of space, they would get
bashed or eaten by the children!!

I might try starting one off indoors, taking it out over the summer (if
we get one) and seeing what happens by next winter. If I have anything
worth saving, I'll think again.

Thanks

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Gale Pearce]

>
> Do you know if it has to be direct (presumably meaning without any
> intervening substances) sunlight, or would it like sunshine through a
> window? We have a sunny (depending on the weather) kitchen windowsill
> that might be fine. We have a loquat growing there which is doing quite
> well.
>
Hi Alan - I've never heard of anyone growing a Lotus indoors, but I know a
windowsill wouldn't work - they get too large, unless there is some really
small dwarf species I haven't heard about - mine gets 3' - 4' high and has a
crown 3 to 4 feet across with aerial leaves the size of large dinner plates
& platters and is planted in a 18" by 12" pot that sits inside a large
plastic 20 gal tub on my deck
Gale :~)

[Alan Silver]

>> Do you know if it has to be direct (presumably meaning without any
>> intervening substances) sunlight, or would it like sunshine through a
>> window? We have a sunny (depending on the weather) kitchen windowsill
>> that might be fine. We have a loquat growing there which is doing quite
>> well.
>>
>Hi Alan - I've never heard of anyone growing a Lotus indoors, but I know a
>windowsill wouldn't work - they get too large, unless there is some really
>small dwarf species I haven't heard about - mine gets 3' - 4' high and has a
>crown 3 to 4 feet across with aerial leaves the size of large dinner plates
>& platters and is planted in a 18" by 12" pot that sits inside a large
>plastic 20 gal tub on my deck

Well that counts that out!! Thanks for the warning. I'm not sure this is
practical then. You couldn't keep something like that outdoors in the
UK, not even in the sunny South <g> and I don't have space for it
indoors. We used to have a massive swiss cheese plant, but that
eventually had to go when it got bashed once too many times by the
children whizzing around on toy trucks !!

Maybe I'll try growing it indoors until it gets too big. Then I'll look
for a home for it. Thanks again

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Derek Broughton]

Alan Silver wrote:

>>They definitely won't grow in England in the winter. They're not
>>tropicals, though, and they grew in _my_ climate in Ontario, Canada -
>>outside year
>>round - so you can definitely raise them. Indoors? Probably not. You
>>need at least a half-barrel outside.
>
> Hmm, could be a problem there. We don't really have anywhere to put them
> inside in the winter. Apart from the basic lack of space, they would get
> bashed or eaten by the children!!

Eaten is fine. All parts of the lotus are edible :-)

You shouldn't really need to bring them indoors - they'll die back, but
they'll come back in spring as long as they don't freeze solid. If you do
need to bring them in, you can dig them up, wash them off, and store
bareroot. I expect K30 has a source to describe how to do that - I
haven't tried keeping lotuses bareroot, but I have successfully kept hardy
lilies that way, and I think it's the same deal.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

Alan Silver wrote:

>>Found a faq regarding sunlight
>
> Thanks for that. Trouble is that we get a lot of rain, so even if we had
> the sunshine (which isn't certain), I would be nervous about leaving the
> plant outside as it could get battered by the rain.

No, you get a _lot_ of rain, but you don't get the kind of massive
thunderstorms that we get inland in N. America (or I guess in monsoon
season in S. Asia). Lotuses handle that sort of weather with aplomb - and
don't even need the sun except to flower. Of course, what do you want with
a non-flowering lotus :-)

You'll have no trouble at all getting it to grow, it's the flowering that
will be touchy.
--
derek

[Benign Vanilla]

"Alan Silver" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> My wife was clearing out a drawer the other day, and she came across a
> package containing some lotus seeds that I was given by someone I met
> about 15 years ago. I put them away, intending to find out how to grow
> them one day and never did ;-)
>
> Anyway, so I have two basic questions...
>
> 1) Will 15 year-old seeds be any good? I've looked at quite a few sites
> about growing these plants and it seems that they will last a long time,
> but I haven't seen any real numbers. This isn't such a huge question as
> I can simply try them and see if anything happens. If not, I've only
> lost a bit of water ;-)
<snip>

I say scarify them, and soak them. You'll know if they are any good in just
a few days.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/Plants/Emergent/Lotus/
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

[Benign Vanilla]

"Gale Pearce" > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> > Do you know if it has to be direct (presumably meaning without any
> > intervening substances) sunlight, or would it like sunshine through a
> > window? We have a sunny (depending on the weather) kitchen windowsill
> > that might be fine. We have a loquat growing there which is doing quite
> > well.
> >
> Hi Alan - I've never heard of anyone growing a Lotus indoors, but I know a
> windowsill wouldn't work - they get too large, unless there is some really
> small dwarf species I haven't heard about - mine gets 3' - 4' high and has
a
> crown 3 to 4 feet across with aerial leaves the size of large dinner
plates
> & platters and is planted in a 18" by 12" pot that sits inside a large
> plastic 20 gal tub on my deck

There are smaller varieties that don't get much bigger then a foot or two. I
am actually working 10 sprouts now. The kitchen counter is our lotus farm
right now.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

[Derek Broughton]

Benign Vanilla wrote:

> I say scarify them, and soak them. You'll know if they are any good in
> just a few days.

Careful now, I think we might have already scarified Alan off :-)
--
derek

[Alan Silver]

>>>Found a faq regarding sunlight
>>
>> Thanks for that. Trouble is that we get a lot of rain, so even if we had
>> the sunshine (which isn't certain), I would be nervous about leaving the
>> plant outside as it could get battered by the rain.
>
>No, you get a _lot_ of rain, but you don't get the kind of massive
>thunderstorms that we get inland in N. America (or I guess in monsoon
>season in S. Asia). Lotuses handle that sort of weather with aplomb - and
>don't even need the sun except to flower. Of course, what do you want with
>a non-flowering lotus :-)
>
>You'll have no trouble at all getting it to grow, it's the flowering that
>will be touchy.

Oh, well that's some reassurance. I'm still not sure what we would do
with it over the winter, but given the time of year, I have a good eight
or nine months before I need to worry about that. If it's still alive
and growing by then, I'll have something to celebrate!!

Thanks

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Alan Silver]

>>>They definitely won't grow in England in the winter. They're not
>>>tropicals, though, and they grew in _my_ climate in Ontario, Canada -
>>>outside year
>>>round - so you can definitely raise them. Indoors? Probably not. You
>>>need at least a half-barrel outside.
>>
>> Hmm, could be a problem there. We don't really have anywhere to put them
>> inside in the winter. Apart from the basic lack of space, they would get
>> bashed or eaten by the children!!
>
>Eaten is fine. All parts of the lotus are edible :-)

;-)

>You shouldn't really need to bring them indoors - they'll die back, but
>they'll come back in spring as long as they don't freeze solid.

They would here!! We get regular frosts and snow in the winter.

> If you do need to bring them in, you can dig them up, wash them off,
>and store bareroot. I expect K30 has a source to describe how to do
>that - I haven't tried keeping lotuses bareroot, but I have
>successfully kept hardy lilies that way, and I think it's the same deal.

Digging them up might not be an issue, as I've seen plenty of sites
recommend you grow them in a tub. I could just bring the whole tub in
and let it grow indoors over the winter.

Thanks for the reply

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>Oh, well that's some reassurance. I'm still not sure what we would do
>with it over the winter, but given the time of year, I have a good eight
>or nine months before I need to worry about that. If it's still alive
>and growing by then, I'll have something to celebrate!!

If you have garden space, you can dig the pot into the ground and it will
winter fine.... as I'm getting the inkling you don't have a pond? ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Alan Silver]

>>Oh, well that's some reassurance. I'm still not sure what we would do
>>with it over the winter, but given the time of year, I have a good eight
>>or nine months before I need to worry about that. If it's still alive
>>and growing by then, I'll have something to celebrate!!
>
>If you have garden space, you can dig the pot into the ground and it will
>winter fine.... as I'm getting the inkling you don't have a pond? ~ jan

Correct. I posted here 'cos it seemed to have the most posts about
growing lotuses. Sorry, I should have mentioned that I don't have a
pond.

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Alan Silver]

>> I say scarify them, and soak them. You'll know if they are any good in
>> just a few days.
>
>Careful now, I think we might have already scarified Alan off :-)

Nah, takes more than that to scarify me!! You've not seen my younger son
first thing in the morning!!

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Derek Broughton]

Alan Silver wrote:

>>You shouldn't really need to bring them indoors - they'll die back, but
>>they'll come back in spring as long as they don't freeze solid.
>
> They would here!! We get regular frosts and snow in the winter.
>
Hehehe. Unless global warming has really cooled you down in the last 30
years - Not! :-)

"regular frost" does not equate to freezing a planted tuber. If you put a
lotus in a half-barrel, I would guess it would take at least a solid week
of sub-freezing temperatures to damage it.

> Digging them up might not be an issue, as I've seen plenty of sites
> recommend you grow them in a tub. I could just bring the whole tub in
> and let it grow indoors over the winter.

Well, it won't grow - it just won't die.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

Alan Silver wrote:

>>> I say scarify them, and soak them. You'll know if they are any good in
>>> just a few days.
>>
>>Careful now, I think we might have already scarified Alan off :-)
>
> Nah, takes more than that to scarify me!! You've not seen my younger son
> first thing in the morning!!

In case you hadn't caught on - it might be worthwhile to explain "scarify".
Lotus seeds have extremely hard skins - that's why they last so long. To
help the seed to germinate, you need to give it a hand. Freezing and
thawing - the natural method - works, but it's a bit of a chancy
proposition. Sanding ("scarifying", at least in a sense) the seed until
you see a bit of the white germ exposed will pretty well guarantee
germination.
--
derek

[Alan Silver]

>>>> I say scarify them, and soak them. You'll know if they are any good in
>>>> just a few days.
>>>
>>>Careful now, I think we might have already scarified Alan off :-)
>>
>> Nah, takes more than that to scarify me!! You've not seen my younger son
>> first thing in the morning!!
>
>In case you hadn't caught on - it might be worthwhile to explain "scarify".
>Lotus seeds have extremely hard skins - that's why they last so long. To
>help the seed to germinate, you need to give it a hand. Freezing and
>thawing - the natural method - works, but it's a bit of a chancy
>proposition. Sanding ("scarifying", at least in a sense) the seed until
>you see a bit of the white germ exposed will pretty well guarantee
>germination.

Thanks, I had seen the term on a couple of web sites, so I wasn't
completely in the dark ;-)

Most of the sites I saw recommended sawing gently until you could see
the white inside, then soaking them in water. Sounds a bit easier than
sanding them down. Any comments?

Thanks for the clarification. I still reckon the sight of my younger son
first thing in the morning is enough to scare (or scarify) any lotus
seed into germinating!!

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Gale Pearce]

Either way will work just fine, if you use a saw, a hacksaw would probably
work best - just cut until you can see the white inside, no farther
I personally use a pair of pliers to hold the seed and my bench grinder

Gale :~)
"> Most of the sites I saw recommended sawing gently until you could see
> the white inside, then soaking them in water. Sounds a bit easier than
> sanding them down. Any comments?
>

[Derek Broughton]

Alan Silver wrote:

>>In case you hadn't caught on - it might be worthwhile to explain
>>"scarify".

> Thanks, I had seen the term on a couple of web sites, so I wasn't
> completely in the dark ;-)
>
> Most of the sites I saw recommended sawing gently until you could see
> the white inside, then soaking them in water. Sounds a bit easier than
> sanding them down. Any comments?

A Dremel (rotary tool) works great. A saw would work. It doesn't really
matter - just make sure it's clamped somehow. I've never heard of anyone
seriously hurting themselves, but I've heard of a few accidents with people
using either power tools or hammers to get into these things!
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I still reckon the sight of my younger son
> first thing in the morning is enough to scare (or scarify) any lotus
> seed into germinating!!

Kids... I don't have any, so I don't have that problem. :-)
--
derek

[Alan Silver]

>> Thanks for the clarification. I still reckon the sight of my younger son
>> first thing in the morning is enough to scare (or scarify) any lotus
>> seed into germinating!!
>
>Kids... I don't have any, so I don't have that problem. :-)

Oh I didn't say it's a problem, he's wonderful. He just has this habit
of leaping on me from a great height when I'm least expecting it!!

--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)

[Benign Vanilla]

"Alan Silver" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Thanks, I had seen the term on a couple of web sites, so I wasn't
> completely in the dark ;-)
>
> Most of the sites I saw recommended sawing gently until you could see
> the white inside, then soaking them in water. Sounds a bit easier than
> sanding them down. Any comments?
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I still reckon the sight of my younger son
> first thing in the morning is enough to scare (or scarify) any lotus
> seed into germinating!!

I use a triangular file, sittin flat on one side. I then run the seed across
one edge until I can see the white of the seeds eye *sic*.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.