Where's the Ammonia?

[Lisa]

Hello,

I set up my new 50-gallon bow-front 2 weeks ago. 8 days ago, I bought
2 Flame dwarf gouramis to begin the cycle. As far as I can tell, they
have been happy, eating, active, and making bubble nests all over for
the past week.

The water seems clear. (I added Bio-Spira after the fish had been in
the tank for 2 days or so - it was the first chance I had to actually
find it in stock at the LFS.)

I've tested the water EVERY day for gH, kH, pH. The pH inched up
slightly - gradually - from 7.0 to 7.2. Otherwise, no changes. Water
is fairly soft for both kH and gH.

Water tested EVERY day for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. All 0-0-0,
every darn time. (I confess I got compulsive and started testing for
the "Big 3" twice a day! Ahhh!) I even bought a different testing kit
to make sure I had a good one. Both are in agreement.

So, why aren't I cycling? Where's the ammonia that I am supposed to see
in a new tank? Is it possible that the 2 dwarf Gouramis aren't
producing enough ammonia to be detected in a 50-gallon? I am afraid
that maybe I don't have any good bacteria, or perhaps they are starving
through having little ammonia to eat.

Should I go ahead and add more fish, or should I wait? Should I do a
partial water change/gravel vacuum, or just leave it sit awhile? (I am
planning to do a 20% change/vacuum routine every week for this tank, so
I'd like to get into the tank maintenance routine as soon as I can.
But I don't want to mess up any growing bacteria!)

I was really expecting to see SOMETHING happen before now, so it seems
very strange. I guess all is well, but I wish I had some ammonia to
detect, so that I knew things were progressing. Any thoughts?
Thanks,

- Lisa

[Sarah Navarro]

Hi, I don't know for sure, because I am still fairly new to fishkeeping
also, but I think that by adding BioSpira that completes the cycle by
itself. The purpose of it is so that you can add a full load of fish right
away. I hope that someone corrects me if I am wrong. It is the actual live
bacteria that the cycling is trying to grow. I don't know if that makes
sense or not. I have used it to cycle my last three tanks and it is just
wonderful.

Sarah


"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I set up my new 50-gallon bow-front 2 weeks ago. 8 days ago, I bought
> 2 Flame dwarf gouramis to begin the cycle. As far as I can tell, they
> have been happy, eating, active, and making bubble nests all over for
> the past week.
>
> The water seems clear. (I added Bio-Spira after the fish had been in
> the tank for 2 days or so - it was the first chance I had to actually
> find it in stock at the LFS.)
>
>

[NetMax]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I set up my new 50-gallon bow-front 2 weeks ago. 8 days ago, I bought
> 2 Flame dwarf gouramis to begin the cycle. As far as I can tell, they
> have been happy, eating, active, and making bubble nests all over for
> the past week.
>
> The water seems clear. (I added Bio-Spira after the fish had been in
> the tank for 2 days or so - it was the first chance I had to actually
> find it in stock at the LFS.)
>
> I've tested the water EVERY day for gH, kH, pH. The pH inched up
> slightly - gradually - from 7.0 to 7.2. Otherwise, no changes. Water
> is fairly soft for both kH and gH.
>
> Water tested EVERY day for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. All 0-0-0,
> every darn time. (I confess I got compulsive and started testing for
> the "Big 3" twice a day! Ahhh!) I even bought a different testing kit
> to make sure I had a good one. Both are in agreement.
>
> So, why aren't I cycling? Where's the ammonia that I am supposed to see
> in a new tank? Is it possible that the 2 dwarf Gouramis aren't
> producing enough ammonia to be detected in a 50-gallon? I am afraid
> that maybe I don't have any good bacteria, or perhaps they are starving
> through having little ammonia to eat.
>
> Should I go ahead and add more fish, or should I wait? Should I do a
> partial water change/gravel vacuum, or just leave it sit awhile? (I am
> planning to do a 20% change/vacuum routine every week for this tank, so
> I'd like to get into the tank maintenance routine as soon as I can.
> But I don't want to mess up any growing bacteria!)
>
> I was really expecting to see SOMETHING happen before now, so it seems
> very strange. I guess all is well, but I wish I had some ammonia to
> detect, so that I knew things were progressing. Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> - Lisa


Two Dwarf gouramis are not going to make an appreciable amount of ammonia
in a 50g tank (unless you were feeding them hourly ;~), and what little
ammonia *would* have been detectable (still below your test kit's
measurement threshold) would have been consumed by the bacteria you
added, so imho, you are cycled (which means the tank is balanced to the
fish load of 2 Dwarf gouramis). You can start your water changing to
your heart's desire, or you can wait until you detect nitrates (though if
you have lots of plants, I wouldn't).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Billy]

"Sarah Navarro" > wrote in message
ink.net...
| Hi, I don't know for sure, because I am still fairly new to
fishkeeping
| also, but I think that by adding BioSpira that completes the cycle
by
| itself. The purpose of it is so that you can add a full load of
fish right
| away. I hope that someone corrects me if I am wrong. It is the
actual live
| bacteria that the cycling is trying to grow. I don't know if that
makes
| sense or not. I have used it to cycle my last three tanks and it
is just
| wonderful.


I would call it a mix of a very small bio-load for a 50gallon, and
the addition of the bio-spira. In time, (provided I'm correct) you
will start to see nitrates creeping up, since I'm going to venture
that the cycle is complete, though weak.
My advice would be to begin normal maintenance, but treat your
filter very gently. (i.e. don't change any cartriges for a while) Add
fish very slowly to let your small colony of bacteria catch up with
the load.

billy

[Wez]

Lisa,

I had the same thing going on recently with my 180L tank(thought I had
an extrememly planted aquarium), I actually used a product called
"cycle" that contains dormant beneficial bacteria which is probably
simlar to the product you used. It took about a month to get some
readings, it sounds like your gourami's are happy if they are producing
bubble nest's. I wouldn't worry about not having any ammonia,nitrites,
nitrates ect. It is actually a good thing as u probably know.
Happy Fishkeeping

--Wez

[Mary Burns]

When I started my 65 g bow, I added about 10" of fish, new plants and media
from my other tank. No ammonia was detected and just a little nitrite for 2
days on day 7 and 8, and nitrate at about 15 for the last 5 months. It is so
stable with 50" of fish now,which I built up slowly. I vacuum 25% of the
gravel each week, which takes out about 15 /20% of the water and do a
midweek 10% as there are a couple of angels who need "really" clean water!!
Mary
"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I set up my new 50-gallon bow-front 2 weeks ago. 8 days ago, I bought
> 2 Flame dwarf gouramis to begin the cycle. As far as I can tell, they
> have been happy, eating, active, and making bubble nests all over for
> the past week.
>
> The water seems clear. (I added Bio-Spira after the fish had been in
> the tank for 2 days or so - it was the first chance I had to actually
> find it in stock at the LFS.)
>
> I've tested the water EVERY day for gH, kH, pH. The pH inched up
> slightly - gradually - from 7.0 to 7.2. Otherwise, no changes. Water
> is fairly soft for both kH and gH.
>
> Water tested EVERY day for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. All 0-0-0,
> every darn time. (I confess I got compulsive and started testing for
> the "Big 3" twice a day! Ahhh!) I even bought a different testing kit
> to make sure I had a good one. Both are in agreement.
>
> So, why aren't I cycling? Where's the ammonia that I am supposed to see
> in a new tank? Is it possible that the 2 dwarf Gouramis aren't
> producing enough ammonia to be detected in a 50-gallon? I am afraid
> that maybe I don't have any good bacteria, or perhaps they are starving
> through having little ammonia to eat.
>
> Should I go ahead and add more fish, or should I wait? Should I do a
> partial water change/gravel vacuum, or just leave it sit awhile? (I am
> planning to do a 20% change/vacuum routine every week for this tank, so
> I'd like to get into the tank maintenance routine as soon as I can.
> But I don't want to mess up any growing bacteria!)
>
> I was really expecting to see SOMETHING happen before now, so it seems
> very strange. I guess all is well, but I wish I had some ammonia to
> detect, so that I knew things were progressing. Any thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> - Lisa
>

[Lisa]

Whoo-hoo, then I can add some more fish! (Only one or two, though -
I'm on a 6-month plan.) The two dwarf gouramis are nice, but it looks
a wee bit empty in there. BTW, does anyone know why there are
typically no female dwarf Flame Gouramis available at LFSs? I know the
males are more colorful, but I'd like to have some females, too. It
seems unnatural to have 4 males in my tank. How does one go about
getting female fish that are less "popular" due to coloration?

Thanks for the reassurance and info, everyone. I'll keep on the
course. :-)

- Lisa

[Ozdude]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello,
>
> I set up my new 50-gallon bow-front 2 weeks ago. 8 days ago, I bought
> 2 Flame dwarf gouramis to begin the cycle. As far as I can tell, they
> have been happy, eating, active, and making bubble nests all over for
> the past week.
>
> The water seems clear. (I added Bio-Spira after the fish had been in
> the tank for 2 days or so - it was the first chance I had to actually
> find it in stock at the LFS.)
<snip>

Hi Lisa,

I have acquired two male Honey Gouramis as well ;) One bigger than the
other. I'll get 4 females when the LFS gets new stock out of quarantine.

I'm responding because my tank never spiked, but my experience was slightly
different;

I seeded it with sponge squeezings and the whole filter from the old tank
and then left it for two days. Then I added the fish, 6 at a time over 3
days from the old tank.

I tested and tested, and it's been 4 weeks now and I have yet to see any
spikes.

I consider myself lucky/fortunate and even more so the 18 Tetra, 2 Gourami,
and 2 Mystery Snails.

I've just started injecting CO2 too which has dropped the pH from 7.8 to
7.3, which is sounding good to me.

I have a had a lucky/good run with this new tank so far.

I do have a document I got from the internet some time ago which gives
advice about seeding using old filters and the such and he claimed in that
there were no evident spikes - I followed this advice and it worked!

It's worth mentioning that I am pretty scrupulous about water changing (25%
at least once per week) and not over-feeding. I have a medium amount of
plants and a pretty light fish load for the size of the tank.

Experiences with cycling seem to vary dependent on many variable parameters,
so I think it's safe to state YMMV ;)

Regards,

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Ozdude]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Whoo-hoo, then I can add some more fish! (Only one or two, though -
> I'm on a 6-month plan.) The two dwarf gouramis are nice, but it looks
> a wee bit empty in there. BTW, does anyone know why there are
> typically no female dwarf Flame Gouramis available at LFSs? I know the
> males are more colorful, but I'd like to have some females, too. It
> seems unnatural to have 4 males in my tank. How does one go about
> getting female fish that are less "popular" due to coloration?
>
> Thanks for the reassurance and info, everyone. I'll keep on the
> course. :-)

I'd ask the LFS to get some in for you.

I have two males and I am going to add 4 females when they come out of
quarantine. I asked the LFS to get them for me, which they were happy to do.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Fuzzy]

Wez wrote:
> Lisa,
> I actually used a product called "cycle" that contains dormant
> beneficial bacteria which is probably simlar to the product you
> used. --Wez



IMO "cycle" is a waste of money. Bio Spira, on the other hand, is good,
a bit expensive, it must be refridgerated, to keep the bacteria alive,
and has been proven to actually work. With the fish load, in your tank,
there is probibly not enough ammonia happening to create readings. If
you are doing water changes then the N03, cannot build up enough to be
detectable. I would ad your fish, and monitor the ammonia, and see what
happens. I suspect you are cycled, and at worst, you may have mini
spike, if you add too many fish at once.

In Wez's case, a planted tank, with an established plant life, is pretty
much ready for fish. The natural cycle is helped by the plants which
need ammonia, and nitrates. A lot of the bio load created by fish, as
long as the tank is not over loaded will be used directly by the plants,
allowing the nitifying bacteria to compete for the remainder.



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

[Starfish]

"cycle" has to be refrigerated too....
"Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL> wrote in message
...
> Wez wrote:
> > Lisa,
> > I actually used a product called "cycle" that contains dormant
> > beneficial bacteria which is probably simlar to the product you
> > used. --Wez
>
>
>
> IMO "cycle" is a waste of money. Bio Spira, on the other hand, is good,
> a bit expensive, it must be refridgerated, to keep the bacteria alive,
> and has been proven to actually work. With the fish load, in your tank,
> there is probibly not enough ammonia happening to create readings. If
> you are doing water changes then the N03, cannot build up enough to be
> detectable. I would ad your fish, and monitor the ammonia, and see what
> happens. I suspect you are cycled, and at worst, you may have mini
> spike, if you add too many fish at once.
>
> In Wez's case, a planted tank, with an established plant life, is pretty
> much ready for fish. The natural cycle is helped by the plants which
> need ammonia, and nitrates. A lot of the bio load created by fish, as
> long as the tank is not over loaded will be used directly by the plants,
> allowing the nitifying bacteria to compete for the remainder.
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via CichlidFish.com
> http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Starfish wrote:
>
> "cycle" has to be refrigerated too....
> "Fuzzy" -DONTEMAIL> wrote in message
> ...
> > Wez wrote:
> > > Lisa,
> > > I actually used a product called "cycle" that contains dormant
> > > beneficial bacteria which is probably simlar to the product you
> > > used. --Wez
> >
> >
> >
> > IMO "cycle" is a waste of money. Bio Spira, on the other hand, is good,

I agree, I've used cycle and its a waste of time!

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Lisa wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I set up my new 50-gallon bow-front 2 weeks ago. 8 days ago, I bought
> 2 Flame dwarf gouramis to begin the cycle. As far as I can tell, they
> have been happy, eating, active, and making bubble nests all over for
> the past week.
>
> Water tested EVERY day for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. All 0-0-0,
> every darn time. (I confess I got compulsive and started testing for
> the "Big 3" twice a day! Ahhh!) I even bought a different testing kit
> to make sure I had a good one. Both are in agreement.
>
> So, why aren't I cycling? Where's the ammonia that I am supposed to see
> in a new tank?

Do you have any plants in the tank? Plants use ammonia as food
(fertiliser) and may well catch enough of it to keep the concentration
below the detection limit. If so, you have an ideal set up in which the
ammonium released by the fish is eaten immediately by the plants. The
tank will never "cycle" (that is, no bacteria converting ammonia to
nitrite and nitrate will develop), but you simply don't need them. That
may or may not change if you add more fish, but if you don't do anything
rash you have nothing to worry about.

Just do a reasonable water change routine (20% every 2 weeks or so) to
keep other waste products down and both your fish and your plants will
be fine.