New tank problems - beware long

[yepadoos]

I cannot get my tank to cycle and am lost at what to do next. Have a
30 gallon tank with several fish in it. I have been receiving
conflicting info from books/fish store and I think I have it all
screwed up. Been messing with this for a couple of months.

Right now the water is very cloudy with a green tint. It has been this
way for 2 weeks. I have resisted the urge to do a water change but it
is looking terrible. I was hoping this was the late stage of cycling
but I'm not seeing any changes. Algea is growing on the sides of the
tank. Ammonia=4ppm,nitrite=0,nitrate=0.

Fish store said I was under-filtered. I had a whisper 30. I got rid
of that and put in a emperor 280. It has been several days an no
improvement. I have used cycle. I have used something that came in a
packet that had to be refrigerated (can't remember the name). Still no
luck.

Questions:

Planning on doing a 20% water change today and vaccuming the gravel in
hopes of clearing up the water. Good idea?

Are water changes detrimental to cycling?

The emperor 280 comes with a media basket. Should I put something in
there?

[Tedd Jacobs]

"yepadoos" wrote...
>I cannot get my tank to cycle and am lost at what to do next. Have a
> 30 gallon tank with several fish in it. I have been receiving
> conflicting info from books/fish store and I think I have it all
> screwed up. Been messing with this for a couple of months.
>
> Right now the water is very cloudy with a green tint. It has been this
> way for 2 weeks. I have resisted the urge to do a water change but it
> is looking terrible. I was hoping this was the late stage of cycling
> but I'm not seeing any changes. Algea is growing on the sides of the
> tank. Ammonia=4ppm,nitrite=0,nitrate=0.
>
> Fish store said I was under-filtered. I had a whisper 30. I got rid
> of that and put in a emperor 280. It has been several days an no
> improvement. I have used cycle. I have used something that came in a
> packet that had to be refrigerated (can't remember the name). Still no
> luck.
>
> Questions:
>
> Planning on doing a 20% water change today and vaccuming the gravel in
> hopes of clearing up the water. Good idea?

yes. plan on a routine water change of at least 20% one a week.

>
> Are water changes detrimental to cycling?

water changes are always detrimental. when cycling i personally do a 10%
every other day unless the ammonia gets too high, then i'll bump up the
changes accordingly.

>
> The emperor 280 comes with a media basket. Should I put something in
> there?

i'm not familure enough with the emperors to know much about them. in my
tanks however i do have some filter material (looks kinda like one of those
old green scrub pads or in one filter i use a sponge).

my recomendation is to pack everything up and send it to me. just kidding!
(sort of.) ;-) i'd start on a routine of a 10% water change every other
day, cut back on the amount of food you are feeding, and add some filter
material. there are others here that can give you much better advice on the
emperor than i, but hopefully this will give you some things to start with.

how many and of what type of fish do you have?

[Margolis]

do big water changes, they are not detrimental to cycling at all. As long
as there are measurable amounts of ammonia the tank is going to cycle.
Changes of 40% or so every few days to keep the ammonia to an acceptable
level will be a good thing. You got a new filter, so it is going to be 3
weeks to a month after getting the new filter before the tank cycles
completely again. Just don't clean the filter. Just suck out the water and
any loose detritus you see. Once the tank gets cycled and settled in things
should clear up.

as for the media basket, where does it go? after the crap is filtered out
of the water? if so you could get some sort of bio media and put in there.
fluval and eheim both make some that you should be able to get at a local
fish store.
--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[yepadoos]

The media basket goes inside the filter between the filter cartridge
and the bio-wheel.

This product claims to be good to use in a new tank.
http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?familyid=5546&sku=4743190144&tab=3&dept_id=1076&c1=1063&c2=1076&c3=&ct1=Filter+Media&ct2=Carbons+%26+Resins&ct3=

[George Pontis]

In article . com>,
says...
> ... Ammonia=4ppm,nitrite=0,nitrate=0.

These are typical numbers for a system that has not cycled. Ammonia is quite high
at this point and harmful to the fish.

>
> Fish store said I was under-filtered. I had a whisper 30. I got rid
> of that and put in a emperor 280. It has been several days an no
> improvement. I have used cycle. I have used something that came in a
> packet that had to be refrigerated (can't remember the name). Still no
> luck.
>

Emperor 280 is a good unit. The biowheel on the 280 needs to develop the colonies
of bacteria that will digest the ammonia and then the nitrite. The biowheel
probably has more biofilter value than everything else in your system, so in
effect you have just begun the cycling process when you installed this filter.

> Questions:
>
> Planning on doing a 20% water change today and vaccuming the gravel in
> hopes of clearing up the water. Good idea?

Yes, this is a good idea but since you have a lot of ammonia you should do a
larger water change to bring it down. 20% water change still leaves you with
3.2ppm ammonia which is high for any fish. You will not slow down the cycling with
a 40% water change. Since there is going to be a continuing production of ammonia
you might need to settle into a 20% water change every day for the next week.
Check your pH. Low pH renders ammonia less harmful, high pH more harmful. If your
tank is around 7 then you can relax a bit. If 7.5 or higher then your fish would
appreciate the water changes. Two things to keep in mind:

1) Do not overfeed!!! Any food that you add to the aquarium, whether it is eaten
by fish or not, will lead to further ammonia production.

2) Be sure to dechlorinate water before adding it to the aquarium. Amquel would be
a good choice at this point.

> Are water changes detrimental to cycling?

You have plenty (an excess) of ammonia to feed the cycling process, so no problem
with water changes.

> The emperor 280 comes with a media basket. Should I put something in
> there?

Not necessary. The filter cartridge and biowheel provide mechanical and biological
filtration. I doubt that you need chemical filtration but if you want to spend $
you can buy some stuff that will bind ammonia. You can accomplish what you need by
avoiding overfeeding and doing water changes as needed to control ammonia. If you
could keep it at 1mg/l your fish would be better able to take it for a week.

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)

>Subject: Re: New tank problems - beware long
>From: "Tedd Jacobs"
>Date: 1/28/2005 9:44 A.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>

>> Are water changes detrimental to cycling?

>water changes are always detrimental.

Tedd...
What do mean by this?
When a tank is cycling you must do water changes otherwise the ammonia levels
would rise to dangerous levels.
Many people think that by doing a water change during the cycling process that
they will be removing too many of the benificial bacteria...however, these
bacteria are sticky and adhere to any surface in the tank. They don't free
float in the water.

[Dick]

On 28 Jan 2005 06:58:29 -0800, "yepadoos" > wrote:

>I cannot get my tank to cycle and am lost at what to do next. Have a
>30 gallon tank with several fish in it. I have been receiving
>conflicting info from books/fish store and I think I have it all
>screwed up. Been messing with this for a couple of months.
>
>Right now the water is very cloudy with a green tint. It has been this
>way for 2 weeks. I have resisted the urge to do a water change but it
>is looking terrible. I was hoping this was the late stage of cycling
>but I'm not seeing any changes. Algea is growing on the sides of the
>tank. Ammonia=4ppm,nitrite=0,nitrate=0.
>
>Fish store said I was under-filtered. I had a whisper 30. I got rid
>of that and put in a emperor 280. It has been several days an no
>improvement. I have used cycle. I have used something that came in a
>packet that had to be refrigerated (can't remember the name). Still no
>luck.
>
>Questions:
>
>Planning on doing a 20% water change today and vaccuming the gravel in
>hopes of clearing up the water. Good idea?
>
I have 5 tanks, they range in age from 1 1/2 to 2 years and in size 10
to 75 gallons. I think regular water changes is the best route to a
healthy tank. I do two 20% changes weekly.

dick

>Are water changes detrimental to cycling?
>
>The emperor 280 comes with a media basket. Should I put something in
>there?

[js1]

On 2005-01-28, yepadoos > wrote:
> I cannot get my tank to cycle and am lost at what to do next. Have a
> 30 gallon tank with several fish in it. I have been receiving
> conflicting info from books/fish store and I think I have it all
> screwed up. Been messing with this for a couple of months.
>

http://honors.montana.edu/~weif/firsttank/cycle.phtml

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman