Paradise fish (Crossposted)

[Dee]

I have a 2" paradise fish in my 75 gal community aquarium. I know they are
supposed to be aggressive but he's a gentle giant. He's been fine for
months - never exactly dashing round the tank but quite happy and swimming
around and eating. Now however he seems to have taken to just hanging around
the top in a corner. no sign of any obvious problems, no white spot,flukes,
no gasping etc (although I know they are air breathers anyway)
I've upped the temp of the tank to 80o so I'm wondering if that's the
reason? I know paradise fish can be kept quite happily in a cold water
aquarium if it's room temp. I have a 50 gal 2 yr old cw tank with 1 x3"
moor, 1 x 4" oranda, 1 x 2" lionhead, 2 small pearlscales and a plec so
there really isn't room for the paradise fish in there but if he's going to
be happier, I'd chance it. the temp of the cw tank by the way is between
68 - 70 degrees.
For info, water in both tanks is PH 7, Ammonia 0 nitrates 0, nitrate 30ppm.
What do you think?

[NetMax]

"Dee" <nospam@nohow> wrote in message
...
>I have a 2" paradise fish in my 75 gal community aquarium. I know they
>are supposed to be aggressive but he's a gentle giant. He's been fine
>for months - never exactly dashing round the tank but quite happy and
>swimming around and eating. Now however he seems to have taken to just
>hanging around the top in a corner. no sign of any obvious problems, no
>white spot,flukes, no gasping etc (although I know they are air
>breathers anyway)
> I've upped the temp of the tank to 80o so I'm wondering if that's the
> reason? I know paradise fish can be kept quite happily in a cold water
> aquarium if it's room temp. I have a 50 gal 2 yr old cw tank with 1 x3"
> moor, 1 x 4" oranda, 1 x 2" lionhead, 2 small pearlscales and a plec so
> there really isn't room for the paradise fish in there but if he's
> going to be happier, I'd chance it. the temp of the cw tank by the way
> is between 68 - 70 degrees.
> For info, water in both tanks is PH 7, Ammonia 0 nitrates 0, nitrate
> 30ppm.
> What do you think?


Their temperament varies according to their sex and neighbours. Add
other anabitidaes, and you might see a change in its disposition. I
think 80F is far too warm for a Paradisefish, however your cw tank does
not sound too inviting either (other than its ideal temperature), so
ymmv. I can see 3 probable scenarios mixing Goldfish and Paradisefish i)
the Goldfish endlessly annoy the Paradisefish into a corner, ii) the
Paradisefish damages some of the sensitive head tissues of the Oranda or
iii) it works out reasonably well (the Paradisefish adapts to the blasts
of waste coming out of Goldfish and a Pleco ;~).

Note that if the Paradisefish is actually ill, you risk
cross-contaminating another tank. Do you not have a little 6-8g tank you
could keep on your desk for the Paradisefish? Another option is to drop
the 75g back down to around 75F. A long shot is to arrange the tank to
make a cooler corner for him to hang out, but this is somewhat elaborate
to do as you want to stagnate the water, prevent water surface movement
to the rest of the tank and encourage air movement to cool the corner
(and Paradisefish are jumpers). It would take something like some
plastic wedges to block a corner with a wide surface and small bottom
entry (heat rises) with lots of floating plants. Easier to find a cooler
home for him.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Scott Connolly]

I intend to try a couple of Paradise Fish in a cold water or ambient
room temperature aquarium ... but in winter that would be about 60 F
(15C) in my selected room at home (basement family room)
Have read that most PF - especially those from Korea and China ..and
Malaysia will survive to 50 F (do ok) - -their ideal for breeding would
be a higher temperature 65-70F

So that might help --give one some room for a heaterless tank etc..

Watch out for the more-tropical breeds of Paradise Fish which have been
raised or imported and then tank bred from Africa - as they may have
difficulty adapting to lower temperatures.

When trying it .. adapt them as when new fish are purchased .. maybe a
little longer ..and most literature warns of the slower nitrites
conversion at lower temperature (bacteria work slower) so filter & water
changes & possibly oxygen - depending on the tank population -- yes
these are surface air breathers -- but the oxygen diiminishment in
colder water may require attention to that or choose a lesser tank
population.

As to tank mates ..they eat (carnivores) bigger as they grow to 5" .. so
maybe a weather loach etc -- ghost shrimp will thrive but will be
dinner. Minnows too may be vulnerable for dinner ... but Rosy Reds ..a
popular pond minnow takes the cold ok & others like White Clouds.

[NetMax]

"Scott Connolly" > wrote in message
...
>I intend to try a couple of Paradise Fish in a cold water or ambient
> room temperature aquarium ... but in winter that would be about 60 F
> (15C) in my selected room at home (basement family room)
> Have read that most PF - especially those from Korea and China ..and
> Malaysia will survive to 50 F (do ok) - -their ideal for breeding would
> be a higher temperature 65-70F
>
> So that might help --give one some room for a heaterless tank etc..

I would not make the tank heaterless. They prefer cooler water, but will
be stressed by a water which changes in temperature too much or often.
The heater will just be on for shorter periods of time.

> Watch out for the more-tropical breeds of Paradise Fish which have been
> raised or imported and then tank bred from Africa - as they may have
> difficulty adapting to lower temperatures.

I've never heard of commercial breeding in Africa. Can you provide your
sources?

> When trying it .. adapt them as when new fish are purchased .. maybe a
> little longer ..and most literature warns of the slower nitrites
> conversion at lower temperature (bacteria work slower) so filter &
> water
> changes & possibly oxygen - depending on the tank population -- yes
> these are surface air breathers -- but the oxygen diiminishment in
> colder water may require attention to that or choose a lesser tank
> population.

The colder the water, the more oxygen it holds. Oxygen depletion is a
characteristic associated with hot water or power failures.

> As to tank mates ..they eat (carnivores) bigger as they grow to 5" ..
> so
> maybe a weather loach etc -- ghost shrimp will thrive but will be
> dinner. Minnows too may be vulnerable for dinner ... but Rosy Reds ..a
> popular pond minnow takes the cold ok & others like White Clouds.

Perhaps you are thinking of another fish, or it's a cm to inches typo.
It would be neat to have them reach 5".
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/paradise.xml has them at 2.3".
and the four types shown here range from 2.5"
http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&Type=Anabantids&CommonName=Paradise&sb=1&view_records=View+Records
to 4"
http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0018&view_records=1

I think all the Anabitidae are carnivorous, but with their tiny mouths,
it would probably be better to have them described as insectivores. I
don't think they present any special danger of eating anything but
invertebrates and very small fish (fry). ymmv
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Blue Gourami]

"Dee" <nospam@nohow> wrote in message >...
>I have a 2" paradise fish in my 75 gal community aquarium. [snip]
>Now however he seems to have taken to just hanging around the top in
a >corner. [snip]
>I've upped the temp of the tank to 80o so I'm wondering if that's the
>reason? I know paradise fish can be kept quite happily in a cold
water >aquarium if it's room temp. [snip]

I think there is a very good chance your paradise fish is not happy
about the temperature. A few years ago, I had a female who exhibited
exactly the same symptoms in the summer, when the temperature in the
tank went way up. She had been fine until then. Unfortunately, she
died. At the time, I was new in the hobby and did realize what the
problem might be.

I now have a male alone in an unheated 20-gallon hexagonal tank in the
basement. Right now, the water is 66°F (19°C), and he is very lively
and eats well. Every time I walk by the tank, he rushes to the front
and does his little dance, hopping to get fed! Last summer the water
temperature went up to 75°F (24°C) maximum and he was fine.

Blue Gourami

[Ozdude]

"Blue Gourami" > wrote in message
m...

> I think there is a very good chance your paradise fish is not happy
> about the temperature. A few years ago, I had a female who exhibited
> exactly the same symptoms in the summer, when the temperature in the
> tank went way up. She had been fine until then. Unfortunately, she
> died. At the time, I was new in the hobby and did realize what the
> problem might be.
>
> I now have a male alone in an unheated 20-gallon hexagonal tank in the
> basement. Right now, the water is 66°F (19°C), and he is very lively
> and eats well. Every time I walk by the tank, he rushes to the front
> and does his little dance, hopping to get fed! Last summer the water
> temperature went up to 75°F (24°C) maximum and he was fine.

From my experience with these fish, the females seem less robust than the
males by a long shot.

My female did exactly the same thing and then expired, although the male was
bothereing her a bit before hand.

I'd rather go for the tropical Gourami species over these fish now, but even
there, the smaller species of Gourami females also seem to be quite frail in
comparison to the males.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith