Betta Constipated?

[Eric Schreiber]

About a week ago I noticed that one of my male Bettas (beautiful
split-tail) was bulging in the gut, looking as though he'd swallowed a
marble. I did the requisite online searches to see what I could do. I
got the strong impression this is a common problem.

His scales remain smooth, not pine-coned, so I think I can rule out
dropsy. His behavior is fine - he's not especially listless or having
difficulties that I can see. No spots or signs of disease. Two other
bettas in the tank with him are quite healthy.

Following suggestions I'd found, I stopped feeding him. After 4-5 days,
this made no visible difference, so I added salt to the tank - 1 Tbsp
per ten gallons. Again no difference. Two days ago I boiled and mashed
a pea and fed it to him (laxative, apparently), and again no result,
except that he's bigger by a pea.

The bulge is now uneven, and certainly no smaller. What have I missed?
What else can I try.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Richard Blincoe]

Epsom salts is often quoted here as a good laxative - as far as dosage
goes - Frankray is our man for such questions....


"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> About a week ago I noticed that one of my male Bettas (beautiful
> split-tail) was bulging in the gut, looking as though he'd swallowed a
> marble. I did the requisite online searches to see what I could do. I
> got the strong impression this is a common problem.
>
> His scales remain smooth, not pine-coned, so I think I can rule out
> dropsy. His behavior is fine - he's not especially listless or having
> difficulties that I can see. No spots or signs of disease. Two other
> bettas in the tank with him are quite healthy.
>
> Following suggestions I'd found, I stopped feeding him. After 4-5 days,
> this made no visible difference, so I added salt to the tank - 1 Tbsp
> per ten gallons. Again no difference. Two days ago I boiled and mashed
> a pea and fed it to him (laxative, apparently), and again no result,
> except that he's bigger by a pea.
>
> The bulge is now uneven, and certainly no smaller. What have I missed?
> What else can I try.
>
> --
> Eric Schreiber
> www.ericschreiber.com

[Richard Blincoe]

I think frank mainly hangs out in alt.aquaria - you can find him there.....


"Richard Blincoe" > wrote in message
...
> Epsom salts is often quoted here as a good laxative - as far as dosage
> goes - Frankray is our man for such questions....
>
>
> "Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
> ...
> > About a week ago I noticed that one of my male Bettas (beautiful
> > split-tail) was bulging in the gut, looking as though he'd swallowed a
> > marble. I did the requisite online searches to see what I could do. I
> > got the strong impression this is a common problem.
> >
> > His scales remain smooth, not pine-coned, so I think I can rule out
> > dropsy. His behavior is fine - he's not especially listless or having
> > difficulties that I can see. No spots or signs of disease. Two other
> > bettas in the tank with him are quite healthy.
> >
> > Following suggestions I'd found, I stopped feeding him. After 4-5 days,
> > this made no visible difference, so I added salt to the tank - 1 Tbsp
> > per ten gallons. Again no difference. Two days ago I boiled and mashed
> > a pea and fed it to him (laxative, apparently), and again no result,
> > except that he's bigger by a pea.
> >
> > The bulge is now uneven, and certainly no smaller. What have I missed?
> > What else can I try.
> >
> > --
> > Eric Schreiber
> > www.ericschreiber.com
>
>

[IDzine01]

Daphnia acts as a mild laxative as well. That may help on the other
hand, you may not want to be feeding him at all if he's that bloated.
It is possible that it could be Dropsy or a tumor, though your right,
constipation is quite common and usually the easy answer is the best.
He may be having a difficult time passing something. I would consider
putting him in a hospital tank with no substrate on the bottom. If you
see poo on the bottom, you know he's not constipated and it's something
else.

http://www.nippyfish.net/constipation.html

Christie

[Eric Schreiber]

IDzine01 wrote:

> It is possible that it could be Dropsy or a tumor

As I understand it, dropsy makes the scales stick out, giving the fish
a pine-cone appearance. That's not happening here. A tumor might be a
possibility, I suppose, if it was a small one that was blocking the
digestive tract, causing everything to back up. The swelling grew very
fast, though, so I doubt that most of the swelling I see here can
itself be a tumor.


> He may be having a difficult time passing something.

Of this, I think there can be no doubt :)


> If you see poo on the bottom, you know he's not constipated
> and it's something else.

I have a feeling that if whatever is the cause suddenly cleares up,
there will be no doubt about it. The mess will be horrific.


> http://www.nippyfish.net/constipation.html

Thanks for the link.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Eric Schreiber]

Richard Blincoe wrote:

> I think frank mainly hangs out in alt.aquaria - you can find him
> there.....

Thanks for the newsgroup jump.

No Epsom salts in the immediate neighborhood (called a couple of
neighbors) but I've got a post-midnight cola run scheduled for tonight,
so I'll pick some up then, and see what information the web has to
offer for dosage.



--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[NetMax]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> Richard Blincoe wrote:
>
>> I think frank mainly hangs out in alt.aquaria - you can find him
>> there.....
>
> Thanks for the newsgroup jump.
>
> No Epsom salts in the immediate neighborhood (called a couple of
> neighbors) but I've got a post-midnight cola run scheduled for tonight,
> so I'll pick some up then, and see what information the web has to
> offer for dosage.

1 teaspoon per 5g us.... but call me pessimistic.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> Eric Schreiber
> www.ericschreiber.com

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Betta Constipated?
>From: "IDzine01"
>Date: 2/1/2005 4:28 P.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: . com>
>
>Daphnia acts as a mild laxative as well. That may help on the other
>hand, you may not want to be feeding him at all if he's that bloated.
>It is possible that it could be Dropsy or a tumor, though your right,
>constipation is quite common and usually the easy answer is the best.
>He may be having a difficult time passing something. I would consider
>putting him in a hospital tank with no substrate on the bottom. If you
>see poo on the bottom, you know he's not constipated and it's something
>else.

I agree, A bare bottom tank is the best way to figure out if "things are moving
along". = )~
Daphnia and Brine both have somewhat of a mild laxative effect, however, if
this guy is that constipated he'll need more help than it can give.
Eric already mentioned using the shelled pea. I would try that again in 2 days,
without feeding anything else.
A sad note though, Eric, Dropsy condition doesn't always create that pine cone
look where the scales are raised.
So don't totally push that possiblity aside.

[Eric Schreiber]

NetMax wrote:

> 1 teaspoon per 5g us.... but call me pessimistic.

Pessimistic as in "goodbye, little fish"? If so, yeah, me too. Still,
gotta give it a try.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Eric Schreiber]

TYNK 7 wrote:

> already mentioned using the shelled pea. I would try
> that again in 2 days, without feeding anything else.

That would be today. I'll do that along with the epsom salts I'm
picking up later on tonight.

> Dropsy condition doesn't always create that
> pine cone look where the scales are raised.
> So don't totally push that possiblity aside.

Understood. According to my reading, dropsy has the best chance of
being cured if a/b treatment starts early, and even then the chances
are far from good. Since I'm reasonably sure it's not dropsy, I
question if it would be wise to treat the tank. I'm inclined against it.

At this point I don't expect to be able to save this fish, but since
he's not exhibiting any behavioral indications of distress (he still
swims around, goes mad when he thinks it's feeding time, makes
threatening faces at his tank mates, etc) I'm not quite prepared to
give up yet.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[NetMax]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> 1 teaspoon per 5g us.... but call me pessimistic.
>
> Pessimistic as in "goodbye, little fish"? If so, yeah, me too. Still,
> gotta give it a try.
>


Pessimistic about the diagnosis. I've seen that swallowed marble look on
Bettas before. However if the diagnosis is correct, then there is more
reason to be ... less pessimistic
--
www.NetMax.tk

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Betta Constipated?
>From: "Eric Schreiber" ericat ericschreiber dot com
>Date: 2/1/2005 11:20 P.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>TYNK 7 wrote:
>
>> already mentioned using the shelled pea. I would try
>> that again in 2 days, without feeding anything else.
>
>That would be today. I'll do that along with the epsom salts I'm
>picking up later on tonight.
>
>> Dropsy condition doesn't always create that
>> pine cone look where the scales are raised.
>> So don't totally push that possiblity aside.
>
>Understood. According to my reading, dropsy has the best chance of
>being cured if a/b treatment starts early, and even then the chances
>are far from good. Since I'm reasonably sure it's not dropsy, I
>question if it would be wise to treat the tank. I'm inclined against it.
>
>At this point I don't expect to be able to save this fish, but since
>he's not exhibiting any behavioral indications of distress (he still
>swims around, goes mad when he thinks it's feeding time, makes
>threatening faces at his tank mates, etc) I'm not quite prepared to
>give up yet.
>
>
>--
>Eric Schreiber
>www.ericschreiber.com
>

Oh don't you dare give up on the little dude.
He may just need to have a good sitdown, hehe.
The Epsom salt is a good idea, as I've heard of that being used to treat Dropsy
conditions.
You want to draw out the fluids that the fish's body is swelling up with.
You can save them, but it's got to be treated early on.
If it is a Dropsy condition, hopefully it's early enough and treatable.
The cause would need to be found too.
Of course I'm hoping he just has to do one heck of a pile of dooky.

[Eric Schreiber]

TYNK 7 wrote:

> Oh don't you dare give up on the little dude.

Not yet, anyway. He's still acting perky as ever, which I take as a
good sign. Just added the epsom salts about fifteen minutes ago. Going
to rustle up another boiled pea in awhile.

> Of course I'm hoping he just has to do one heck of a
> pile of dooky.

I really think that's the case.
But, wow, yikes, and Sweet Fancy Moses!

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[IDzine01]

Hey Eric,

How the little guy looking today? Any progress? Maybe he just needs a
magazine. I know men prefer to do it that way.

-Christie

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Betta Constipated?
>From: "IDzine01"
>Date: 2/2/2005 8:15 A.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: . com>
>
>Hey Eric,
>
>How the little guy looking today? Any progress? Maybe he just needs a
>magazine. I know men prefer to do it that way.
>
>-Christie
>

ROFL.....for sure.

[Rick]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> About a week ago I noticed that one of my male Bettas (beautiful
> split-tail) was bulging in the gut, looking as though he'd swallowed a
> marble. I did the requisite online searches to see what I could do. I
> got the strong impression this is a common problem.
>
> His scales remain smooth, not pine-coned, so I think I can rule out
> dropsy. His behavior is fine - he's not especially listless or having
> difficulties that I can see. No spots or signs of disease. Two other
> bettas in the tank with him are quite healthy.
>
> Following suggestions I'd found, I stopped feeding him. After 4-5 days,
> this made no visible difference, so I added salt to the tank - 1 Tbsp
> per ten gallons. Again no difference. Two days ago I boiled and mashed
> a pea and fed it to him (laxative, apparently), and again no result,
> except that he's bigger by a pea.
>
> The bulge is now uneven, and certainly no smaller. What have I missed?
> What else can I try.
>
> --
> Eric Schreiber
> www.ericschreiber.com\


Eric, how old is this fish? I had a similar problem with a female and
consulted with a Betta expert out of Brithish Columbia. Seems this is quite
common in those that are advancing in age. They seem normal in every respect
except for the swelling but unfortunately die.

Rick

[Eric Schreiber]

Rick wrote:

> Eric, how old is this fish? I had a similar problem with a female and
> consulted with a Betta expert out of Brithish Columbia. Seems this is
> quite common in those that are advancing in age. They seem normal in
> every respect except for the swelling but unfortunately die.

I got him as a juvenile in December 2003. He was much smaller, and I
actually thought he was a female because of the short fins and markings
at the time. Pictures are at this link, third fish listed (Date Bought
- 12/08/2003).

www.ericschreiber.com/aquarium/mybettas.html


So, I figure at most 1.5 to 2 years old, which is starting to edge into
the possible old age range for a betta.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Eric Schreiber]

IDzine01 wrote:

> How the little guy looking today? Any progress?

Unchanged so far. The Epsom salts went into the tank about 15 hours
ago, so may not have had enough time yet.

What he really needs is a little fishy Fleet enema.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Rick]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> Rick wrote:
>
> > Eric, how old is this fish? I had a similar problem with a female and
> > consulted with a Betta expert out of Brithish Columbia. Seems this is
> > quite common in those that are advancing in age. They seem normal in
> > every respect except for the swelling but unfortunately die.
>
> I got him as a juvenile in December 2003. He was much smaller, and I
> actually thought he was a female because of the short fins and markings
> at the time. Pictures are at this link, third fish listed (Date Bought
> - 12/08/2003).
>
> www.ericschreiber.com/aquarium/mybettas.html
>
>
> So, I figure at most 1.5 to 2 years old, which is starting to edge into
> the possible old age range for a betta.
>
> --
> Eric Schreiber
> www.ericschreiber.com


yes, the one I was speaking of was 2 years old.
Rick

[Vicki PS]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> IDzine01 wrote:
>
> > How the little guy looking today? Any progress?
>
> Unchanged so far. The Epsom salts went into the tank about 15 hours
> ago, so may not have had enough time yet.
>
> What he really needs is a little fishy Fleet enema.

If Epsom salts in the tank water hasn't helped, you could try a bath in
Epsom salts. Dose at the rate of 1 tablespoon to a gallon of treated water,
and place the fish in the bath for 15 - 30 minutes. (Take him out if he
shows any signs of distress).

Vicki PS

[Ray Martini]

I had a female Betta that had the fat belly for two months. Everything else
was normal. Her eating habits and her nipping habits were all the same. The
other day I'm relaxing watching the tank and she's swimming about normally
like nothing was going on and then all of a sudden she dropped dead right
before my eyes. In all the years I've had fish I've seen them dying, I've
found them dead or whatever but never saw one actually drop. It was like a
heart attack. Fine one second and then she just dropped to bottom dead.

So the morale of my story is that bloat in a Betta is not a good thing.



"Richard Blincoe" > wrote in message
...
>I think frank mainly hangs out in alt.aquaria - you can find him there.....
>
>
> "Richard Blincoe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Epsom salts is often quoted here as a good laxative - as far as dosage
>> goes - Frankray is our man for such questions....
>>
>>
>> "Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
>> ...
>> > About a week ago I noticed that one of my male Bettas (beautiful
>> > split-tail) was bulging in the gut, looking as though he'd swallowed a
>> > marble. I did the requisite online searches to see what I could do. I
>> > got the strong impression this is a common problem.
>> >
>> > His scales remain smooth, not pine-coned, so I think I can rule out
>> > dropsy. His behavior is fine - he's not especially listless or having
>> > difficulties that I can see. No spots or signs of disease. Two other
>> > bettas in the tank with him are quite healthy.
>> >
>> > Following suggestions I'd found, I stopped feeding him. After 4-5 days,
>> > this made no visible difference, so I added salt to the tank - 1 Tbsp
>> > per ten gallons. Again no difference. Two days ago I boiled and mashed
>> > a pea and fed it to him (laxative, apparently), and again no result,
>> > except that he's bigger by a pea.
>> >
>> > The bulge is now uneven, and certainly no smaller. What have I missed?
>> > What else can I try.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Eric Schreiber
>> > www.ericschreiber.com
>>
>>
>
>

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Betta Constipated?
>From: "Ray Martini"
>Date: 2/4/2005 10:46 A.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I had a female Betta that had the fat belly for two months. Everything else
>was normal. Her eating habits and her nipping habits were all the same. The
>other day I'm relaxing watching the tank and she's swimming about normally
>like nothing was going on and then all of a sudden she dropped dead right
>before my eyes. In all the years I've had fish I've seen them dying, I've
>found them dead or whatever but never saw one actually drop. It was like a
>heart attack. Fine one second and then she just dropped to bottom dead.
>
>So the morale of my story is that bloat in a Betta is not a good thing.

Was your female Betta bloated or ripe with eggs?

[Rick]

"Ray Martini" > wrote in message
...
> I had a female Betta that had the fat belly for two months. Everything
else
> was normal. Her eating habits and her nipping habits were all the same.
The
> other day I'm relaxing watching the tank and she's swimming about normally
> like nothing was going on and then all of a sudden she dropped dead right
> before my eyes. In all the years I've had fish I've seen them dying, I've
> found them dead or whatever but never saw one actually drop. It was like a
> heart attack. Fine one second and then she just dropped to bottom dead.
>
> So the morale of my story is that bloat in a Betta is not a good thing.
>
>
>

yup, that is exactly what happens. Everything seems fine except for the
swelling until obviously something internal ruptures and the end is very
quick.

Rick

[Scott Connolly]

Just read this morning an a tropical fish book that 'Malawi bloat' is
possible .. alleged uncurable and fish lives a week or a few days.
Otherwise for constipation:: Epsom Slats ($2 /pound at Walmart) -- mix
itbs per gallona s the proportion treat the fish in a separate container
of its tank water mixed with the EpsomSalts (Magnesium sulfate) and
leave for 15 -20 minutes ..(no ore than half ho) reepeat daily for a few
days. Unless quarantined & constipation doesn't require this ..then
return to tank after each dosage.

The costipation dosage is from Conway & betta Ills -both on-line and
the Malawi Bloat from 'Tropical Fish Encyclopaedia"

[Eric Schreiber]

Eric Schreiber wrote:

> About a week ago I noticed that one of my male Bettas (beautiful
> split-tail) was bulging in the gut, looking as though he'd swallowed a
> marble. I did the requisite online searches to see what I could do. I
> got the strong impression this is a common problem.

Though he never got any smaller despite a number of treatment attempts,
the betta remained active and didn't seem in any particular distress.
This went on for about six weeks, during which he acted just like you
would expect a betta to. This morning, though, I found him laying on
the bottom, unmoving. He barely put up a fight at all when I moved him
around. Rather than let him suffer (now that he clearly was) I killed
him this afternoon.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Lisa]

Eric - So, he lasted from 2/1/05 - 3/13/05, AFTER you first noticed the
symptoms of dropsy? I am curious, because I have a female Colisa lalia
(dwarf gourami), with definite signs of dropsy, who is currently in a
quarentine tank on meds. I would like to know how long I can expect
her to last. She is still eating, and doesn't seem to be in distress,
but she definitely has the signs of the disease that also killed
another female C. Laslia, who was a tank-mate and purchased at the same
LFS 1 month ago. Another, much smaller, female C. lalia in the same QT
seems absolutely fine, although a bit confused over the change in
environment. Treatments of the sick one with meds and salt have had no
effect, unfortunately. What a long, slow, and hopeless process. :-(

Thanks,

- Lisa

[Eric Schreiber]

Lisa wrote:

> Eric - So, he lasted from 2/1/05 - 3/13/05, AFTER you first noticed
> the symptoms of dropsy?

Correct, except that I'm pretty sure this was simply a plugged pipe,
and not drospy.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Lisa]

Gotcha. But my original female dwarf gourami never exhibited pine-cone
scales, either. Just extreme swelling (I thought she was egg-bound at
first - I had SEEN her spawning with one of the male gouramis two days
before she got sick, darn it!). Then it progressed to the
swelling/hiding/loss of appetite, then listlessness/loss of swim
function. Finally she had distress to such an extreme that I had to
euthanize. She didn't even flutter when I took her out.

Now, one other female Colisa lalia has similar symptoms (swelling,
although mostly to one side, but she is still eating and swimming OK
for now). She's in the QT, along with the remaining female that I
bought in that batch.

- Lisa