Help, contaminate from manual co2 in tank!!!

[Russell]

I have a 260L Jewul Vision tank, fresh water.

I use a manual co2 which has yeast, sugar and water in. A much cheaper
alternative to the other co2 kits. Problem is, we have just had
kittens which knocked it over which, due to the volume of stuff has
forced some through to the tank (probably a couple of days). I noticed
when i got home 14:00 (04/02/05 tonight), that the tank was really
really cloudy with several fish dead. I did a water parameter check
and it turns out that i now have levels of ammonia and nitrites which
i never have as i do regular water changes and i check the water every
week. I've done a 30% water change and put in some toxivec which is a
pollutant remover (I've never used this before, and was recommended by
my local fish shop).

My gut is telling me to do another change tomorrow morning (probably
about 100%) change as alcohol, yeast and what ever else has made it's
way into the tank. The tank is still really cloudy.

I've now found another dead fish, and i think all my shrimps are dead.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Russ

[NetMax]

"Russell" > wrote in message
om...
>I have a 260L Jewul Vision tank, fresh water.
>
> I use a manual co2 which has yeast, sugar and water in. A much cheaper
> alternative to the other co2 kits. Problem is, we have just had
> kittens which knocked it over which, due to the volume of stuff has
> forced some through to the tank (probably a couple of days). I noticed
> when i got home 14:00 (04/02/05 tonight), that the tank was really
> really cloudy with several fish dead. I did a water parameter check
> and it turns out that i now have levels of ammonia and nitrites which
> i never have as i do regular water changes and i check the water every
> week. I've done a 30% water change and put in some toxivec which is a
> pollutant remover (I've never used this before, and was recommended by
> my local fish shop).
>
> My gut is telling me to do another change tomorrow morning (probably
> about 100%) change as alcohol, yeast and what ever else has made it's
> way into the tank. The tank is still really cloudy.
>
> I've now found another dead fish, and i think all my shrimps are dead.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Russ

This happens more than you might think. Then people construct cat-proof
brackets for the DIY bottles. The fix is massive water changes for a few
days.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Russell]

> This happens more than you might think. Then people construct cat-proof
> brackets for the DIY bottles. The fix is massive water changes for a few
> days.

Cheers,

I've just done another 80L (30%) water change this morning. I found a
dead wiptail this morning, but all the other fish seem ok. I've throw
away the co2 bottle as i really don't want this to happen again. I'm
going to invest in a Proper pressurised dosing unit.

I hope this is a good warning to anyone using these diy co2 kits to
make sure that they are housed properly! As my tank is close to the
wall i couldn't hang the diy bottle from the back of the tank.

How many days do you think i should key doing these large water
changes to get rid of any pollutants? I've now done two 30% water
changes. It is still cloudy but i can now see the back of my tank!

Also, when doing the change, i cleaned the filter media (in tank
water) and it was really really slimy. Do you think i might have an
algae problem as well?

Thanks.

Russ

[NetMax]

"Russell" > wrote in message
om...
>> This happens more than you might think. Then people construct
>> cat-proof
>> brackets for the DIY bottles. The fix is massive water changes for a
>> few
>> days.
>
> Cheers,
>
> I've just done another 80L (30%) water change this morning. I found a
> dead wiptail this morning, but all the other fish seem ok. I've throw
> away the co2 bottle as i really don't want this to happen again. I'm
> going to invest in a Proper pressurised dosing unit.
>
> I hope this is a good warning to anyone using these diy co2 kits to
> make sure that they are housed properly! As my tank is close to the
> wall i couldn't hang the diy bottle from the back of the tank.
>
> How many days do you think i should key doing these large water
> changes to get rid of any pollutants? I've now done two 30% water
> changes. It is still cloudy but i can now see the back of my tank!
>
> Also, when doing the change, i cleaned the filter media (in tank
> water) and it was really really slimy. Do you think i might have an
> algae problem as well?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Russ

I'd expect two or three 75% changes should do it. Two 30% would not do
enough (imo). All internal filter surfaces should be covered in a
bio-film which is somewhat slimy. An excessive amount is just too long
between cleanings I think. It's unlikely to be algae, as most algae
prefers high light conditions. It's unlikely to be Cyno (slime algae) as
a filter is too turbulent. Perhaps some diatoms (bacteria) but probably
nothing to worry about. CO2 injection can sometimes produce some very
interesting fungi and moulds.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[David C. Stone]

In article >, Russell
> wrote:

> > This happens more than you might think. Then people construct cat-proof
> > brackets for the DIY bottles. The fix is massive water changes for a few
> > days.
>
> Cheers,
>
> I've just done another 80L (30%) water change this morning. I found a
> dead wiptail this morning, but all the other fish seem ok. I've throw
> away the co2 bottle as i really don't want this to happen again. I'm
> going to invest in a Proper pressurised dosing unit.
>
> I hope this is a good warning to anyone using these diy co2 kits to
> make sure that they are housed properly! As my tank is close to the
> wall i couldn't hang the diy bottle from the back of the tank.
>
> How many days do you think i should key doing these large water
> changes to get rid of any pollutants? I've now done two 30% water
> changes. It is still cloudy but i can now see the back of my tank!

You mentioned previously that you had high ammonia levels after the
incident. I'd keep doing changes for at least 2-3 days past the point
when the ammonia drops back to what you would consider "normal", and
even below that. Yeast and sugar in a nice warm tank? The yeast will
love that!!

> Also, when doing the change, i cleaned the filter media (in tank
> water) and it was really really slimy. Do you think i might have an
> algae problem as well?

How often do you clean/change the filter media? Slime happens over
time due to trapped food particles etc. in the filter media.

[Ozdude]

"Russell" > wrote in message
om...

> I've just done another 80L (30%) water change this morning. I found a
> dead wiptail this morning, but all the other fish seem ok. I've throw
> away the co2 bottle as i really don't want this to happen again. I'm
> going to invest in a Proper pressurised dosing unit.

I have two 2L soda bottles mounted inside one of those large white 10L
buckets that restraunts use (I think they use them in the building trade
too); they have a sealable lid, so I just made a hole on the lid large
enough for the air/CO2 piping to go through, and it has the added advantage
of containing a bottle explosion, should one occur, and keeping the ambient
temperature stable (if you put an aquarium heater and some water in there in
cold weather).

I have check valves on each bottle line before the T-connection and one past
the T-connection to the tank, this prevents either the CO2 getting into the
tank, or the tank siphoning out into the bottles. I am also quite mindful of
the temperatures of the CO2 and the tank, because one being warmer than the
other can cause siphoning. i.e. you don't need to have your bottles tipped
over if the tank water is warmer than the yeast mixture, for it to get into
the tank.(rare btw., it's usually the other way around).

I also use tank water for the bottles so this temperature variation is kept
to a minimum.

As a tripple safe guard, I have inside the bucket a 375ml glass jar, half
filled with water, which I can hear (bubble counter) but also acts as a gas
exchanger/buffer.

I don't have cats or any animal other than the fish in the tank, so maybe I
am being over cautious, but I have heard so many stories on the internet of
yeast mixture getting into tanks because of various over looked things.

I guess I am paranoid about, firstly, yeast mixture, and secondly, carbonic
acid getting into the tank and killing everything and having the gas
exchanger there is peace of mind for me.

Also my bottles are lower than the tank (on the ground) which is against
advice about housing and operating these rigs, but once again the exchanger
is a "peace of mind" buffer too.

>
> I hope this is a good warning to anyone using these diy co2 kits to
> make sure that they are housed properly! As my tank is close to the
> wall i couldn't hang the diy bottle from the back of the tank.

Well one thing's for sure - it won't happen again at your place ;) I
thoroughly recommend mounting the bottles inside something the kittens can't
get into, and if you use a buffer/exchanger and check valves there is less
chance of the kitties pulling the lines and causing a siphon. If you put an
inline joiner in the aquarium line, if the kitties pull the line, it will
split outside the tank and all you will have to worry about would possibly
be drunk kittens, some yeast on the floor if it siphons out, and a pH rise
in the tank ;), which is better IMO than a cloudy poisoned tank.
>
> How many days do you think i should key doing these large water
> changes to get rid of any pollutants? I've now done two 30% water
> changes. It is still cloudy but i can now see the back of my tank!

I have never had this type of accident (touch wood) so I can't comment from
any sort of experience, but I read something on a site the other day which
went along the lines: There isn't anything a 50% water change can't fix and
50% changing never killed anything - or something like that.

So my advice (not experience) is to up it to 50% water changes until it
clears. I would imagine the bacteria in the filter were killed off by the
alchohol, so when it clears perhaps a complete media change?

These are only suggestions, as I've stated, they are not from any personal
experience with such issues.

>
> Also, when doing the change, i cleaned the filter media (in tank
> water) and it was really really slimy. Do you think i might have an
> algae problem as well?

I have heard of the CO2 slimes after an accident like this. I really
recommend you outright replace the media. I'd say the yeast spores that
remain in the current media will always generate this slime long after you
have the water sorted out.

All the best,

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[www.Fish-ForumS.com]

Dow water changes every day for a while def not 100% though.
Make sure the temp and ph are pretty darn close so as
not to stress out your fish.

Marc
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
Want to win a FREE new co2 system or a lighting system OUR PHOTO
CONTEST HAS STARTED

http://www.fish-forums.com

Http://www.aquatic-store.com

On 4 Feb 2005 14:22:13 -0800, (Russell)
wrote:

>I have a 260L Jewul Vision tank, fresh water.
>
>I use a manual co2 which has yeast, sugar and water in. A much cheaper
>alternative to the other co2 kits. Problem is, we have just had
>kittens which knocked it over which, due to the volume of stuff has
>forced some through to the tank (probably a couple of days). I noticed
>when i got home 14:00 (04/02/05 tonight), that the tank was really
>really cloudy with several fish dead. I did a water parameter check
>and it turns out that i now have levels of ammonia and nitrites which
>i never have as i do regular water changes and i check the water every
>week. I've done a 30% water change and put in some toxivec which is a
>pollutant remover (I've never used this before, and was recommended by
>my local fish shop).
>
>My gut is telling me to do another change tomorrow morning (probably
>about 100%) change as alcohol, yeast and what ever else has made it's
>way into the tank. The tank is still really cloudy.
>
>I've now found another dead fish, and i think all my shrimps are dead.
>
>Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>Russ

[Robert Flory]

You ought to see what a cherry jello/CO2 mix does to a tank. Massive
dilution works...

Bob

"Russell" > wrote in message
om...
>I have a 260L Jewul Vision tank, fresh water.
>
> I use a manual co2 which has yeast, sugar and water in. A much cheaper
> alternative to the other co2 kits. Problem is, we have just had
> kittens which knocked it over which, due to the volume of stuff has
> forced some through to the tank (probably a couple of days). I noticed
> when i got home 14:00 (04/02/05 tonight), that the tank was really
> really cloudy with several fish dead. I did a water parameter check
> and it turns out that i now have levels of ammonia and nitrites which
> i never have as i do regular water changes and i check the water every
> week. I've done a 30% water change and put in some toxivec which is a
> pollutant remover (I've never used this before, and was recommended by
> my local fish shop).
>
> My gut is telling me to do another change tomorrow morning (probably
> about 100%) change as alcohol, yeast and what ever else has made it's
> way into the tank. The tank is still really cloudy.
>
> I've now found another dead fish, and i think all my shrimps are dead.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Russ

[Robert Flory]

"Russell" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I've just done another 80L (30%) water change this morning. I found a
> dead wiptail this morning, but all the other fish seem ok. I've throw
> away the co2 bottle as i really don't want this to happen again. I'm
> going to invest in a Proper pressurised dosing unit.
>
> I hope this is a good warning to anyone using these diy co2 kits to
> make sure that they are housed properly! As my tank is close to the
> wall i couldn't hang the diy bottle from the back of the tank.
>
> How many days do you think i should key doing these large water
> changes to get rid of any pollutants? I've now done two 30% water
> changes. It is still cloudy but i can now see the back of my tank!
>
> Also, when doing the change, i cleaned the filter media (in tank
> water) and it was really really slimy. Do you think i might have an
> algae problem as well?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Russ

I use one gallon juice containers. Much more stable. I haven't had a
problem since I switched from 2 litter soda bottles. I use 3 jugs per 55
gallon tank. A real pain ...have to upgrade to pressurized CO@ pretty soon
;-)

bob

[Elaine T]

Robert Flory wrote:
> You ought to see what a cherry jello/CO2 mix does to a tank. Massive
> dilution works...
>
OK...I have to ask. Cherry jello?!?

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Robert Flory]

The idea is ---Jell-O mixed with the sugar and water...it makes for a slower
more even CO2 production. Makes for messes too. Really doesn't matter what
flavor, but cherry seemed to be most peoples favorite.

Bob

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
t...
> Robert Flory wrote:
>> You ought to see what a cherry jello/CO2 mix does to a tank. Massive
>> dilution works...
>>
> OK...I have to ask. Cherry jello?!?
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Elaine T]

Robert Flory wrote:
> The idea is ---Jell-O mixed with the sugar and water...it makes for a slower
> more even CO2 production. Makes for messes too. Really doesn't matter what
> flavor, but cherry seemed to be most peoples favorite.
>
> Bob
>
>
Ah. I used to use honey and make mead in gallon jugs hooked up to the
fishtank. *grin* Honey ferments more slowly too, but mead is better to
drink than fermented cherry jello.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Billy]

"Robert Flory" > wrote in message
...
| , but cherry seemed to be most peoples favorite.
|

Probably because nobody wants to eat Cherry-flavored Jello, so it's a
good use for it...

[Robert Flory]

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Robert Flory" > wrote in message
> ...
> | , but cherry seemed to be most peoples favorite.
> |
>
> Probably because nobody wants to eat Cherry-flavored Jello, so it's a
> good use for it...
>
That's the only use I ever had for it. That said, I think someone ran some
tests and claimed cherry worked better.
;-)

[Russell]

>
> You mentioned previously that you had high ammonia levels after the
> incident. I'd keep doing changes for at least 2-3 days past the point
> when the ammonia drops back to what you would consider "normal", and
> even below that. Yeast and sugar in a nice warm tank? The yeast will
> love that!!

Well normally i have zero ammonia and nitrites. I did another change
yesterday and no more ammonia or nitrites. I've put in some carbon
filters as well and some fine filter media.

My Angels have reddish fins now which are getting better. I understand
they could have nitrites burns?

>
> > Also, when doing the change, i cleaned the filter media (in tank
> > water) and it was really really slimy. Do you think i might have an
> > algae problem as well?
>
> How often do you clean/change the filter media? Slime happens over
> time due to trapped food particles etc. in the filter media.

I usually do water changes once a week and clean the filter media when
doing water changes. I don't "clean" clean; i just make sure they
aren't clogged up. I mentioned the slime as the media isn't usually
slimy.

I've also just discovered that adding co2 to a tank drops the ph. I've
been looking at getting a pressurised co2 kit. I went to my local
aquatics shop and went through all the different types of kit
available, regulators, ph solenoids etc. Looks like I'm going to be
spending about 200 squid on new gear! I also didn't realise that just
injecting co2 can cause a ph drop to 4 or 5ph which would definitely
kill all my fish! So when I've got enough dosh I'm going to invest in
the ph regulator.

Also, i didn't realise that you should turn off co2 injection at night
as plants expel c02 instead of using it at night?

Thanks for everyone's help.

Also, why have all my shrimps died? Are shrimps more susceptible to
contaminates?