How to spot a good LFS?

[Knowleman]

The infamous LFS takes a lot of bashing in this forum and know it is
easy to tell beginners never to believe anything an LFS employee tells
them. Having gone through the reefkeeping learning curve recently,
however, I can tell you that following such advice is easier said that
done in the real world. The trouble is, locating other reefkeepers to
have a genuinely interactive conversation with is difficult for many
of us. This forum and sites like reefcentral help, but they are no
substitute for a live chat about something you are thinking of doing
or are concerned about. The people in the LFS are there and many are
willing to have that kind of chat.

The problem is that willingness to give advice and ability to give
sound advice does not always go hand in hand so we are left with the
question of how a novice can distinguish a genuinely good LFS from a
poor one.

In my 8 months or so in the hobby, I have had close encounters with
about 7 or 8 LFSs and out of these, I would say 2 of them are
responsible and capable of providing sound and informed advice. I
therefore concur with the general assumption that you are more likely
to get bad advice than good, though disagree that all LFSs are bad -
at least here in the UK.

Having thought about it a bit, there are three criteria I would like
to suggest as a way for a novice (or even more experienced
reefkeepers) to quickly tell whether an LFS is any good.

1. What does their display tank look like? The two good ones that I
mentioned both have really good reef displays that are obviously well
thought out and well looked after. The others either have half hearted
reef displays, ones in poor condition or none at all.

2. What is their policy on returning stock? The two good ones I know
both have a no quibble returns and refunds/exchange policy. The spirit
is, if you added something to your tank based on their advice and it
doesn't work out, they will take it back.

3. Of course the important follow on question to the last one is, how
do they manage the quarantine process. Both of the LFSs I would
recommend have good quarantine facilities and procedures and are happy
to demonstrate and explain them. This is obviously important for them
managing receipts from dealers and to making sure returned stock is
safe before attempting to resell it.

Whenever I discover a new LFS, I check these three criteria and won't
even buy RO water from them unless they qualify on all counts - let
alone stock. This is a shame in one case as the LFS that has by far
the best selection of stock in our area has a no returns policy. As
far as we are concerned, they are therefore not an option to buy from.

Do these rules seem reasonable?

Does anyone else have similar rules that the rest of us can benefit
from?

After all, we have to deal with LFSs even if we are experts (not that
I am), so writing them all off as poor and useless doesn't really help
that much.

[Xdudimus Maximus]

> 1. What does their display tank look like? The two good ones that I
> mentioned both have really good reef displays that are obviously well
> thought out and well looked after. The others either have half hearted
> reef displays, ones in poor condition or none at all.
>
> 2. What is their policy on returning stock? The two good ones I know
> both have a no quibble returns and refunds/exchange policy. The spirit
> is, if you added something to your tank based on their advice and it
> doesn't work out, they will take it back.
>
> 3. Of course the important follow on question to the last one is, how
> do they manage the quarantine process. Both of the LFSs I would
> recommend have good quarantine facilities and procedures and are happy
> to demonstrate and explain them. This is obviously important for them
> managing receipts from dealers and to making sure returned stock is
> safe before attempting to resell it.
>
> Whenever I discover a new LFS, I check these three criteria and won't
> even buy RO water from them unless they qualify on all counts - let
> alone stock. This is a shame in one case as the LFS that has by far
> the best selection of stock in our area has a no returns policy. As
> far as we are concerned, they are therefore not an option to buy from.
>
> Do these rules seem reasonable?
>
> Does anyone else have similar rules that the rest of us can benefit
> from?
>
> After all, we have to deal with LFSs even if we are experts (not that
> I am), so writing them all off as poor and useless doesn't really help
> that much.

I'll go in and ask lots of dumb questions. Depending on the answers, and
how the store looks (See above), I'll shop there or go somewhere else.

I don't want to say LFSs will lie, but I think it's more of a knowledge
thing.
They don't know, so they make it up.


FWIW

X

[Dr4g0nf1y]

Chain Stores are generally not equipped to perform the required quarantine
and other procedures. The usual staffing is barely informed at best. They
might have the best prices on livestock but I try and avoid them as much as
possible.


"Xdudimus Maximus" > wrote in message
...
>> 1. What does their display tank look like? The two good ones that I
>> mentioned both have really good reef displays that are obviously well
>> thought out and well looked after. The others either have half hearted
>> reef displays, ones in poor condition or none at all.
>>
>> 2. What is their policy on returning stock? The two good ones I know
>> both have a no quibble returns and refunds/exchange policy. The spirit
>> is, if you added something to your tank based on their advice and it
>> doesn't work out, they will take it back.
>>
>> 3. Of course the important follow on question to the last one is, how
>> do they manage the quarantine process. Both of the LFSs I would
>> recommend have good quarantine facilities and procedures and are happy
>> to demonstrate and explain them. This is obviously important for them
>> managing receipts from dealers and to making sure returned stock is
>> safe before attempting to resell it.
>>
>> Whenever I discover a new LFS, I check these three criteria and won't
>> even buy RO water from them unless they qualify on all counts - let
>> alone stock. This is a shame in one case as the LFS that has by far
>> the best selection of stock in our area has a no returns policy. As
>> far as we are concerned, they are therefore not an option to buy from.
>>
>> Do these rules seem reasonable?
>>
>> Does anyone else have similar rules that the rest of us can benefit
>> from?
>>
>> After all, we have to deal with LFSs even if we are experts (not that
>> I am), so writing them all off as poor and useless doesn't really help
>> that much.
>
> I'll go in and ask lots of dumb questions. Depending on the answers, and
> how the store looks (See above), I'll shop there or go somewhere else.
>
> I don't want to say LFSs will lie, but I think it's more of a knowledge
> thing.
> They don't know, so they make it up.
>
>
> FWIW
>
> X
>
>

[CapFusion]

"Knowleman" > wrote in message
om...
> The infamous LFS takes a lot of bashing in this forum and know it is
> easy to tell beginners never to believe anything an LFS employee tells
> them. Having gone through the reefkeeping learning curve recently,
> however, I can tell you that following such advice is easier said that
> done in the real world. The trouble is, locating other reefkeepers to
> have a genuinely interactive conversation with is difficult for many
> of us. This forum and sites like reefcentral help, but they are no
> substitute for a live chat about something you are thinking of doing
> or are concerned about. The people in the LFS are there and many are
> willing to have that kind of chat.
>
> The problem is that willingness to give advice and ability to give
> sound advice does not always go hand in hand so we are left with the
> question of how a novice can distinguish a genuinely good LFS from a
> poor one.
>
> In my 8 months or so in the hobby, I have had close encounters with
> about 7 or 8 LFSs and out of these, I would say 2 of them are
> responsible and capable of providing sound and informed advice. I
> therefore concur with the general assumption that you are more likely
> to get bad advice than good, though disagree that all LFSs are bad -
> at least here in the UK.
>
> Having thought about it a bit, there are three criteria I would like
> to suggest as a way for a novice (or even more experienced
> reefkeepers) to quickly tell whether an LFS is any good.
>
> 1. What does their display tank look like? The two good ones that I
> mentioned both have really good reef displays that are obviously well
> thought out and well looked after. The others either have half hearted
> reef displays, ones in poor condition or none at all.
>
> 2. What is their policy on returning stock? The two good ones I know
> both have a no quibble returns and refunds/exchange policy. The spirit
> is, if you added something to your tank based on their advice and it
> doesn't work out, they will take it back.
>
> 3. Of course the important follow on question to the last one is, how
> do they manage the quarantine process. Both of the LFSs I would
> recommend have good quarantine facilities and procedures and are happy
> to demonstrate and explain them. This is obviously important for them
> managing receipts from dealers and to making sure returned stock is
> safe before attempting to resell it.
>
> Whenever I discover a new LFS, I check these three criteria and won't
> even buy RO water from them unless they qualify on all counts - let
> alone stock. This is a shame in one case as the LFS that has by far
> the best selection of stock in our area has a no returns policy. As
> far as we are concerned, they are therefore not an option to buy from.
>
> Do these rules seem reasonable?
>
> Does anyone else have similar rules that the rest of us can benefit
> from?
>
> After all, we have to deal with LFSs even if we are experts (not that
> I am), so writing them all off as poor and useless doesn't really help
> that much.

LFS are not all bad / good. Since novice / beginner do not know or can tell
if the advice is good at all. These can also apply to anything we all buy
from the store [electronic / fish ...etc] the staff know it or not is depend
on the individual. Taking "GoodGuys" for example, they specially in AV
stuff, do you think all of the staff would know when you ask
off-the-beating-path question? As off-the-beating-path become normal
question, you will get the correct answer [eventually] since this question
been ask and correct by individual that do know the answer will provide
future answer to whom request this question.

CapFusion,...

[jaypython]

I find the best way is to learn everything you can from internet and
good books,then the only thing you have to ask a LFS clerk is "how much
is that" or "can i have that one please?"

Thats my personal oppinion and own experience.

good luck

jay;)



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[Aquacare]

I really like Jay's opinion on LFS. READ READ READ, SURF SURF SURF ....
then ask questions. There is nothing more anoying than a customer that has a
ton of questions and has no clue on vocabulary. You can't be expected to
explain aquarium keeping in 15 minutes. Plus don't forget you have to wait
on other customers and if they have to wait.... they are never happy.

I ran an aquarium speciality store for years and it does get a bit stressful
from time to time.