Fishless cycle question

[Sarah Navarro]

Hi, I am setting up a new tank (number 14). This one is a 26 gallon with
gravel, undergravel filter, and hang on back filter, How much ammonia do I
need to add to get it started on a fishless cycle? I found a website that
says 5 drops per 10 gallons of water daily, but I don't have an eyedropper
and was wondering how much that was, as in 1/2 teaspoon, etc.

Thanks, Sarah

[Elaine T]

Sarah Navarro wrote:
> Hi, I am setting up a new tank (number 14). This one is a 26 gallon with
> gravel, undergravel filter, and hang on back filter, How much ammonia do I
> need to add to get it started on a fishless cycle? I found a website that
> says 5 drops per 10 gallons of water daily, but I don't have an eyedropper
> and was wondering how much that was, as in 1/2 teaspoon, etc.
>
> Thanks, Sarah
>
>
5 drops is about 1/2 ml. A teaspoon is 5 ml, so if you use 1/8 tsp, you
should be in range.

You know, you can take some old filter media like spent carbon, a worn
out sponge or cartridge, or some biomedia from one of your established
tanks and put it in your new filter for a few weeks. You will transfer
enough bacteria to keep fish immediately with no cycle. Just be sure
the "donor" tank is healthy.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[NetMax]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Sarah Navarro wrote:
>> Hi, I am setting up a new tank (number 14). This one is a 26 gallon
>> with gravel, undergravel filter, and hang on back filter, How much
>> ammonia do I need to add to get it started on a fishless cycle? I
>> found a website that says 5 drops per 10 gallons of water daily, but I
>> don't have an eyedropper and was wondering how much that was, as in
>> 1/2 teaspoon, etc.
>>
>> Thanks, Sarah
> 5 drops is about 1/2 ml. A teaspoon is 5 ml, so if you use 1/8 tsp,
> you should be in range.
>
> You know, you can take some old filter media like spent carbon, a worn
> out sponge or cartridge, or some biomedia from one of your established
> tanks and put it in your new filter for a few weeks. You will transfer
> enough bacteria to keep fish immediately with no cycle. Just be sure
> the "donor" tank is healthy.
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><


You only really cycle the first tank in a house. After that, you
cross-seed with filters or filter media. I've heard that when you
already have tanks, there is so much nitrifying bacteria in the air that
they all cycle faster anyways ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Elaine T]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> In article >, eetmail-
> says...
>
>>5 drops is about 1/2 ml. A teaspoon is 5 ml, so if you use 1/8 tsp, you
>>should be in range.
>>
>
> Actually, there are 60 drops in a teaspoon, but 50 is probably good
> enough for a working number.
>
> I thought 60 was way too many when I looked it up, so I took a teaspoon
> and an eyedropper and tested. Results varied from 58-62 so 60 it is.
>
Ack. Remind me not to do math when I'm sick again. Did you count water
or ammonia? I've always gotten 20 drops/ml with water (goofed above)
which would put 100 drops in a teaspoon. But different liquids and
droppers give different results.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >, eetmail-
says...
> 5 drops is about 1/2 ml. A teaspoon is 5 ml, so if you use 1/8 tsp, you
> should be in range.
>
Actually, there are 60 drops in a teaspoon, but 50 is probably good
enough for a working number.

I thought 60 was way too many when I looked it up, so I took a teaspoon
and an eyedropper and tested. Results varied from 58-62 so 60 it is.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[NetMax]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
t...
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> In article >, eetmail-
>> says...
>>
>>>5 drops is about 1/2 ml. A teaspoon is 5 ml, so if you use 1/8 tsp,
>>>you should be in range.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, there are 60 drops in a teaspoon, but 50 is probably good
>> enough for a working number.
>>
>> I thought 60 was way too many when I looked it up, so I took a
>> teaspoon and an eyedropper and tested. Results varied from 58-62 so
>> 60 it is.
>>
> Ack. Remind me not to do math when I'm sick again. Did you count
> water or ammonia? I've always gotten 20 drops/ml with water (goofed
> above) which would put 100 drops in a teaspoon. But different liquids
> and droppers give different results.
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><


Was that a US teaspoon (4.93ml), a UK teaspoon (3.63ml) or a 5ml metric
teaspoon ? ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Margolis]

It depends on the size of the dropper and the hole in it. Different
droppers have different size drops.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Margolis]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
>
> You know, you can take some old filter media like spent carbon, a worn
> out sponge or cartridge, or some biomedia from one of your established
> tanks and put it in your new filter for a few weeks. You will transfer
> enough bacteria to keep fish immediately with no cycle. Just be sure
> the "donor" tank is healthy.
>



Not quite true. You can seed a filter to speed up the cycle, but it still
has to cycle and will cycle. It will just do it faster since it has "seed"
bacteria to get things started. The fishless cycle is still the way to go
until it is COMPLETELY cycled.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >,
says...
> It depends on the size of the dropper and the hole in it. Different
> droppers have different size drops.
>
Not according to my little black book (No, not that one, Glover's Pocket
Ref).

And yes, it's a US teaspoon :-).

BTW, that's a great little book. Got it filed right next to the
"Standard Mathmatical Tables from the Journal of Chemistry and Physics"
which unfortunately is out of print.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Elaine T]

Margolis wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>You know, you can take some old filter media like spent carbon, a worn
>>out sponge or cartridge, or some biomedia from one of your established
>>tanks and put it in your new filter for a few weeks. You will transfer
>>enough bacteria to keep fish immediately with no cycle. Just be sure
>>the "donor" tank is healthy.
>>
>
>
> Not quite true. You can seed a filter to speed up the cycle, but it still
> has to cycle and will cycle. It will just do it faster since it has "seed"
> bacteria to get things started. The fishless cycle is still the way to go
> until it is COMPLETELY cycled.
>
I beg to differ. I have a month-old carbon bag from an Aquaclear on an
established tank and put it in the new filter of a new tank and added a
few fish. I never saw ammonia or nitrite in that tank. The next time I
was planning a tank, I put extra bio media in the filter of my largest
tank for a month and transfered that to the new filter. Again, no
ammonia or nitrite. This was a Tanganyikan tank and I had to stock
pretty heavily right away too. What, exactly do you mean by COMPLETELY
cycled?

There's a craze for fishless cycling now that is IMO completely
unnecessary. A properly managed tank with a generous load of bacteria
on filter media from an established tank does not "cycle" or stress fish
at all. The fishkeeper must simply consider how many bacteria have been
added and stock accordingly, giving the bacteria time to reproduce as
the tank is filled.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[NetMax]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
.. .
> Margolis wrote:
>> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>You know, you can take some old filter media like spent carbon, a worn
>>>out sponge or cartridge, or some biomedia from one of your established
>>>tanks and put it in your new filter for a few weeks. You will
>>>transfer
>>>enough bacteria to keep fish immediately with no cycle. Just be sure
>>>the "donor" tank is healthy.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Not quite true. You can seed a filter to speed up the cycle, but it
>> still
>> has to cycle and will cycle. It will just do it faster since it has
>> "seed"
>> bacteria to get things started. The fishless cycle is still the way
>> to go
>> until it is COMPLETELY cycled.
>>
> I beg to differ. I have a month-old carbon bag from an Aquaclear on an
> established tank and put it in the new filter of a new tank and added a
> few fish. I never saw ammonia or nitrite in that tank. The next time
> I was planning a tank, I put extra bio media in the filter of my
> largest tank for a month and transfered that to the new filter. Again,
> no ammonia or nitrite. This was a Tanganyikan tank and I had to stock
> pretty heavily right away too. What, exactly do you mean by COMPLETELY
> cycled?
>
> There's a craze for fishless cycling now that is IMO completely
> unnecessary. A properly managed tank with a generous load of bacteria
> on filter media from an established tank does not "cycle" or stress
> fish at all. The fishkeeper must simply consider how many bacteria
> have been added and stock accordingly, giving the bacteria time to
> reproduce as the tank is filled.
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

I guess it depends on which version of semantics you hold to. If
'cycling' means for a system's waste processing capability to be balanced
against the rate of waste being produced, then yes, it is still cycling.
For example, if the bacterial capability of the filter material which has
been added, exceeds the waste production of the new tank, then the tank
is essentially cycled, but there is a die off of bacteria (which is
harmless) until the processing capability drops down to the waste
production rate.

If you take the more pedestrian view (which works for me :~), the tank is
cycled when the waste processing capability equals or exceeds the waste
production rate, so then no, it is instantly cycled in the above case.

Even if that old filter material only had half the bacteria needed, in
less than 24 hours, it would be up to the right numbers, so again, you
are cycled. I agree with Elaine, that it's an easily managed phenomenon
after you have at least one tank running. Pet shops routinely take tanks
out of service (maintenance, sterilization, refits) and they are back up
operating in a few hours. There is no thought to doing a fishless cycle,
or cycling with fish. The environment is almost immediately
re-established using aged filter media.
--
www.NetMax.tk