Re: Stupid Betta question

[sophie]

In message >,
Katra > writes

>Are there _any_ tropical fish that can be tanked with a male Betta?

depends on the betta, but I doubt that guppies would be a good idea,
simply because of their size and tails... you'd want to look at anything
either bigger or smaller (and peaceful) that will be happy with the same
water parameters.

I hope no-one minds me crossposting this to r.a.f.misc; I suspect you
might get a few more responses from there.
--
sophie

[Katra]

In article >,
sophie > wrote:

> In message >,
> Katra > writes
>
> >Are there _any_ tropical fish that can be tanked with a male Betta?
>
> depends on the betta, but I doubt that guppies would be a good idea,
> simply because of their size and tails... you'd want to look at anything
> either bigger or smaller (and peaceful) that will be happy with the same
> water parameters.
>
> I hope no-one minds me crossposting this to r.a.f.misc; I suspect you
> might get a few more responses from there.

That's cool. :-)
I'd appreciate it.
I was thinking neons because they don't have real "finny" tails and fins
if you know what I mean, or possibly any non-fancy guppies.

He is leaving the mystery snails alone so far, and they have very wavy
tentacles. I have one ivory and one gold in with him.

The water is at 80 degrees. I tried cooling it and the betta was not as
active at lower temps.

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day.

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Elaine T]

Katra wrote:
> In article >,
> sophie > wrote:
>
>
>>In message >,
>>Katra > writes
>>
>>
>>>Are there _any_ tropical fish that can be tanked with a male Betta?
>>
>>depends on the betta, but I doubt that guppies would be a good idea,
>>simply because of their size and tails... you'd want to look at anything
>>either bigger or smaller (and peaceful) that will be happy with the same
>>water parameters.
>>
>>I hope no-one minds me crossposting this to r.a.f.misc; I suspect you
>>might get a few more responses from there.
>
>
> That's cool. :-)
> I'd appreciate it.
> I was thinking neons because they don't have real "finny" tails and fins
> if you know what I mean, or possibly any non-fancy guppies.
>
> He is leaving the mystery snails alone so far, and they have very wavy
> tentacles. I have one ivory and one gold in with him.
>
> The water is at 80 degrees. I tried cooling it and the betta was not as
> active at lower temps.
>
I didn't see the original post so I don't know how big your betta tank
is. However, some small fish that I've kept with successfully with
bettas are corydoras cats, rasboras, and otocinclus (if you have algae
for them to eat). I've also kept white clouds with a betta, but that
tank was 76 degrees, not 80. I had trouble with cardinal tetras nipping
at a betta's fins, so I've not tried bettas with tetras since. I know
some people manage it fine.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Katra]

In article >,
Elaine T > wrote:

> Katra wrote:
> > In article >,
> > sophie > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>In message >,
> >>Katra > writes
> >>
> >>
> >>>Are there _any_ tropical fish that can be tanked with a male Betta?
> >>
> >>depends on the betta, but I doubt that guppies would be a good idea,
> >>simply because of their size and tails... you'd want to look at anything
> >>either bigger or smaller (and peaceful) that will be happy with the same
> >>water parameters.
> >>
> >>I hope no-one minds me crossposting this to r.a.f.misc; I suspect you
> >>might get a few more responses from there.
> >
> >
> > That's cool. :-)
> > I'd appreciate it.
> > I was thinking neons because they don't have real "finny" tails and fins
> > if you know what I mean, or possibly any non-fancy guppies.
> >
> > He is leaving the mystery snails alone so far, and they have very wavy
> > tentacles. I have one ivory and one gold in with him.
> >
> > The water is at 80 degrees. I tried cooling it and the betta was not as
> > active at lower temps.
> >
> I didn't see the original post so I don't know how big your betta tank
> is. However, some small fish that I've kept with successfully with
> bettas are corydoras cats, rasboras, and otocinclus (if you have algae
> for them to eat). I've also kept white clouds with a betta, but that
> tank was 76 degrees, not 80. I had trouble with cardinal tetras nipping
> at a betta's fins, so I've not tried bettas with tetras since. I know
> some people manage it fine.

Oh the current tank is _way_ too small to consider adding any more fish
yet... I'm just planning for the future with the 15 gallon tank that I
currently have land snails in. I'm going to move them out and clean up
that tank, then re-seal it, cycle it and get it ready for other fish.
It's going to take awhile!

I want goldfish too, but I'll get a BIG tank for those! Or maybe just
stick with an outdoor pond. I just adore fantails.

Right now the betta tank is only 1.5 gallons. Not really suitable for
much more than the single Betta. I originally bought it to raise some
tadpoles that I bought from the pet store, and some toad tads someone
local gave me from their pond. Those have all morphed now and the tank
is a decoration in the bathroom.

I really love aquariums and have been putting off doing a larger one,
but I think I'm finally getting ready to! I'm debating leaving my pretty
boy in this one where he is, or adding him to the community tank when
it's ready.

He seems to be happy and healthy enough alone with the two snails.

OTOH, there are a number of other betta's languishing and starving to
death in those damned little stacked containers at Wal-Mart. :-( I'd
love to have an excuse to rescue another one or two! <sigh>
Makes me sad to see them that way.

This guy took nearly a week to learn to eat again when I brought him
home......

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day.

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> OTOH, there are a number of other betta's languishing and starving to
> death in those damned little stacked containers at Wal-Mart. :-( I'd
> love to have an excuse to rescue another one or two! <sigh>
> Makes me sad to see them that way.
>
> This guy took nearly a week to learn to eat again when I brought him
> home......

Of the 3 out of 4 LFSs I visit only one of them treat/house Bettas properly,
in 1/2 gallon per segment partitioned Betta Barracks. They have filtration
and all seem to have really good appetites. I know this shop changes their
water every second day too. And to top it off their beautiful range of males
(every colour, Crown Tails and Deltas) is half the price of the other two
which just stick them in glass jars, where they look dowdy, sick, bored and
drowning in their own wastes.

The 4th shop I visit doesn't even keep them for sale because they too can't
stand the cruelty of confining them to little more than a toffee jar.

Every time I see the great range at the shop that looks after them I almost
buy one, but there are so many beautiful ones to choose from I want more
than one. In that case I guess I am going to have to build a species
tank/barracks for them. I have the glass and silicone, so I guess it will be
something to contemplate on a rainy day ;)

I don't think a single male would go into my community tank and survive
(Serpae Tetras, curious little fin nippers), so it's only that which keeps
me from "rescuing" one from a shop ;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Angrie.Woman]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Elaine T > wrote:
>
>>
> I want goldfish too, but I'll get a BIG tank for those! Or maybe just
> stick with an outdoor pond. I just adore fantails.
>


Ponding is great, and the fish love it. We had to move, and leave my pond
behind, but I brought my fish with me. I can hardly wait for spring so I
can start digging a new one. There's a good Usenet group on ponds if you
decide to go that route. I read their stuff for quite q while, then put in
my own pond, all by myself, and never had any significant trouble with it.
I was proud of that - not bad for my first time.

A

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Stupid Betta question
>From: sophie
>Date: 2/6/2005 4:42 P.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In message >,
>Katra > writes
>
>>Are there _any_ tropical fish that can be tanked with a male Betta?
>
>depends on the betta, but I doubt that guppies would be a good idea,
>simply because of their size and tails... you'd want to look at anything
>either bigger or smaller (and peaceful) that will be happy with the same
>water parameters.
>
>I hope no-one minds me crossposting this to r.a.f.misc; I suspect you
>might get a few more responses from there.
>--
>sophie
>

When it comes to housing a Betta with fancy Gups, it all depends on the
individual personality of the Betta. They're all different.
Out of the hundreds of males I've had, only a few couldn't be housed with fancy
Gups.
One of them couldn't be housed with anything at all (overly aggressive).
I've had one male that would go after anything in black, be it a Molly,
Angelfish, etc., and another that went after anything the same dark blue as he
was.
Most of the time Bettas, male or female, can be kept with peaceful community
tank mates.
It's not usually the Betta that causes trouble, he's usually the one getting
nipped up. That's why you need to consider the tank mates for the Betta very
carefully.
Most Barbs and tetras are too nippy. However, Neons, Cardinals, and It's either
Cherry or Rosey (or both) Barbs that are ok...I forget if it was either one or
both types.
I've kept Bettas with Angelfish for years, but they too have individual
personalities that dictate whether it will work out or not.
The best thing is to always have a back-up plan ready.

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > OTOH, there are a number of other betta's languishing and starving to
> > death in those damned little stacked containers at Wal-Mart. :-( I'd
> > love to have an excuse to rescue another one or two! <sigh>
> > Makes me sad to see them that way.
> >
> > This guy took nearly a week to learn to eat again when I brought him
> > home......
>
> Of the 3 out of 4 LFSs I visit only one of them treat/house Bettas properly,
> in 1/2 gallon per segment partitioned Betta Barracks. They have filtration
> and all seem to have really good appetites. I know this shop changes their
> water every second day too. And to top it off their beautiful range of males
> (every colour, Crown Tails and Deltas) is half the price of the other two
> which just stick them in glass jars, where they look dowdy, sick, bored and
> drowning in their own wastes.
>
> The 4th shop I visit doesn't even keep them for sale because they too can't
> stand the cruelty of confining them to little more than a toffee jar.

I feel your pain. :-(
There are 20 to 30 males and females at Wal-Mart, all in 16 oz. plastic
containers with vented lids. I know they never feed them or change the
water. They just toss them as they die... When I pick one, I try to pick
the most responsive ones.

Our local pet store has them in very small containers, but they are
vented containers that hang just inside the larger community aquariums
so they get plenty of water exchanges, AND they get fed!

>
> Every time I see the great range at the shop that looks after them I almost
> buy one, but there are so many beautiful ones to choose from I want more
> than one. In that case I guess I am going to have to build a species
> tank/barracks for them. I have the glass and silicone, so I guess it will be
> something to contemplate on a rainy day ;)

Heh! Sounds like a nice project!

The small corner tanks that wal-mart sells hold about 3/4 of a gallon
and have under-gravel filter systems. They come as a kit. My Doctor's
office keeps bettas in each exam room and uses those. They are very
decorative and don't take up much space! You could fit several of those
together on a shelf and use a strip outlet for the motors. Those little
tank kits are only about $12.00 each.

This is an octagonal 1.5 gallon kit, also from Wal-mart and it's very
attractive. They run around $20.00.

>
> I don't think a single male would go into my community tank and survive
> (Serpae Tetras, curious little fin nippers), so it's only that which keeps
> me from "rescuing" one from a shop ;)
>
> Oz

Where and how are Betta's bred?

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day.

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Katra]

In article >,
"Angrie.Woman" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Elaine T > wrote:
> >
> >>
> > I want goldfish too, but I'll get a BIG tank for those! Or maybe just
> > stick with an outdoor pond. I just adore fantails.
> >
>
>
> Ponding is great, and the fish love it. We had to move, and leave my pond
> behind, but I brought my fish with me. I can hardly wait for spring so I
> can start digging a new one. There's a good Usenet group on ponds if you
> decide to go that route. I read their stuff for quite q while, then put in
> my own pond, all by myself, and never had any significant trouble with it.
> I was proud of that - not bad for my first time.
>
> A
>
>

Yes, I've seen x-posts to that group. :-)
When I get serious about the pond, I'll probably hang out there for
awhile! Good luck with your new pond!

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day.

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Katra]

In article >,
Larry Blanchard > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > OTOH, there are a number of other betta's languishing and starving to
> > death in those damned little stacked containers at Wal-Mart. :-( I'd
> > love to have an excuse to rescue another one or two! <sigh>
> > Makes me sad to see them that way.
> >
> There's a website where someone shows a 10 gallon tank he's subdivided
> with plastic canvas to hold 4 bettas. A 10 gallon can be had for $10.
>
> I can't find the URL but someone will post it.

I could also just cut and glue vented plexiglass... :-)
I've worked with that stuff before!

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >,
says...
> OTOH, there are a number of other betta's languishing and starving to
> death in those damned little stacked containers at Wal-Mart. :-( I'd
> love to have an excuse to rescue another one or two! <sigh>
> Makes me sad to see them that way.
>
There's a website where someone shows a 10 gallon tank he's subdivided
with plastic canvas to hold 4 bettas. A 10 gallon can be had for $10.

I can't find the URL but someone will post it.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[John Thomas]

Katra wrote:

> I could also just cut and glue vented plexiglass... :-)
> I've worked with that stuff before!
>

How do you go about cutting your Plexiglass, and how do you keep it from
warping in the presence of water? I've tried a hand coping saw and a
circular power saw, and the material just ripped or shattered. Let's
hear it for safety glasses! :-(

[Andy Hill]

John Thomas > wrote:
>How do you go about cutting your Plexiglass, and how do you keep it from
>warping in the presence of water? I've tried a hand coping saw and a
>circular power saw, and the material just ripped or shattered. Let's
>hear it for safety glasses! :-(
>
Table saw w/ a backwards plywood blade. For the thinner stuff, put a piece of
scrap plywood underneath to reduce chatter.

I hear ya about the safety glasses. I really hate cutting plexi -- that crap's
dangerous.

[CanadianCray]

Those new "ZIP" saws work really well for cutting acrylic. Personally I just
use a fine toothed table saw.

--
Craig Williams

"John Thomas" > wrote in message ...
> Katra wrote:
>
>> I could also just cut and glue vented plexiglass... :-)
>> I've worked with that stuff before!
>>
>
> How do you go about cutting your Plexiglass, and how do you keep it from
> warping in the presence of water? I've tried a hand coping saw and a
> circular power saw, and the material just ripped or shattered. Let's hear
> it for safety glasses! :-(

[TYNK 7]

(Snipped)

>Subject: Re: Stupid Betta question
>From: Katra
>Date: 2/8/2005 12:01 P.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >

>Where and how are Betta's bred?

Where....in my kitchen, in a fish room, in spawning tanks, etc. = )
How....breeding is the easy part.
The parents are conditioned for about 2 weeks, being fed both frozen and live
foods, pristine water, temp raised to 83*f, set up proper spawning tank for
Bettas, when the pair is together the male will chase, nip, bite, etc. The
female will swim away, dart this way and that way until she's ready for
spawing.
The actual act is gentle compaired to courtship (a bit violent). The female
swims up to the male and the male will wrap himself around her middle. This is
called the "embrace". During this time the female will then release eggs and
the male his milt. The male will then gather the eggs up in his mouth and then
spit them into the nest. After many embraces, the female will need to be
removed and the male cares for the eggs in the bubble nest he should have had
ready before spawning.
Some times they make a make shift nest before and then spruce it up after
spawning. (Lazy butts)
Fry hatch out in about 24 hours or longer if temp isn't warm enough.
Free swimming in a few days, Dad is removed and the keeper is now fully in
charge of keeping their bellies full at all times. They need micro sized foods
at first. Smaller than the fry food you can get at the shops.
After about 2 months the male fry will start to squabble or spar and need to be
removed to their own houses.
At about 4-6 months of age their fins are growing out and can even be bred.
That's just a quicky version with LOTS of important tid bits left out.
We now pause for this commercial break.....
Spawing Bettas should *never* be taken on by anyone other than a serious
hobbyist and one who is well seasoned in Betta husbandry.
The fry can be so easily killed, or even the parents if things aren't done
properly.
We now return you to your original programing. = )~

[Roy]

If its a straight cut, just use a straight edge and a sharp pointed
object like an awl or even a stabley type knife, score it hard and
deep on one side only, and place score over a sharp edge and snap it
downward, (score facing up) For cuts other than straight, a jig,
scroll, works fine, with a fine tooth (preferable a metal cxutting
type blade as they have less kerf and different rake) as compared to
wood cutting fine tooth blades, and they are not as prone to chipping
it out as bad. If your blade speed is too bfast it can melt the chips
back into place, and make a jagged cut. Use of windex or just a slight
amount of water will lube the blade and keep it from melting the chips
if you can;'t slow the blade down on a jig or scroll saw or bandsaw.

File edges smooth or use a block or wood and various grits of sand
paper, to get the marks out of it, and when its pretty smooth and has
a uniform opaque look to it from the file or sandpaper, pass a hand
held propane torch over the edges, holding the torch so the flame
barely hits the edge, and move it back and forth slowly and it will
make the edges turn back to clear again.

I get heaps of all kinds of acrylics in various thicknesses and colors
and materials free for the hauling, and make quite a few aquarium
tops, and light assemblies from it. A good smooth square joint
soslvent welded with dichloromethylene will make a optically clear
glue joint. Use a hypodermic syringe to wick in the solvent.


On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:24:22 -0800, John Thomas > wrote:

>===<>Katra wrote:
>===<>
>===<>> I could also just cut and glue vented plexiglass... :-)
>===<>> I've worked with that stuff before!
>===<>>
>===<>
>===<>How do you go about cutting your Plexiglass, and how do you keep it from
>===<>warping in the presence of water? I've tried a hand coping saw and a
>===<>circular power saw, and the material just ripped or shattered. Let's
>===<>hear it for safety glasses! :-(


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Katra]

In article >, John Thomas > wrote:

> Katra wrote:
>
> > I could also just cut and glue vented plexiglass... :-)
> > I've worked with that stuff before!
> >
>
> How do you go about cutting your Plexiglass, and how do you keep it from
> warping in the presence of water? I've tried a hand coping saw and a
> circular power saw, and the material just ripped or shattered. Let's
> hear it for safety glasses! :-(

The thin plexiglass does better if you treat it like glass...
Don't cut it, score it deeply, break it, then gently hand-sand any sharp
or irregular edges.

If it's thick enough, it's not generally going to warp? I've always had
it glued/secured on at least 3 sides so never had a problem with warping.

I've used plexiglass for scorpions, a baby rattlesnake that I kept for
awhile, and I made my own guppy baby tanks when we had guppies and
mollies many years ago.

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> Where and how are Betta's bred?

I think in Australia (where I am with no Wal-Mart btw) they are either
imported as stock from Singapore/Thailand and China, or the healthy ones I
see at the good LFS are bred by local Betta enthusiasts (going off the price
of A$5.00). There is a huge Betta breeding industry local to Sydney too I
believe, so the ones I get are most probably Australian Citizens :)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Where and how are Betta's bred?
>
> I think in Australia (where I am with no Wal-Mart btw) they are either
> imported as stock from Singapore/Thailand and China, or the healthy ones I
> see at the good LFS are bred by local Betta enthusiasts (going off the price
> of A$5.00). There is a huge Betta breeding industry local to Sydney too I
> believe, so the ones I get are most probably Australian Citizens :)
>
> Oz

Cool... :-)

My mom did have a successful "mating" once in a 10 gallon tank for a
single pair, but as far as we could tell, none of the eggs ever hatched.

I may have to do some googling on the subject! I'll bet the
environmental requirements must not be too bad as they are not very
expensive.......

I've always wondered how Male betta's survive in the wild as they will
rip each other up if they are ever put together in captivity!

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> My mom did have a successful "mating" once in a 10 gallon tank for a
> single pair, but as far as we could tell, none of the eggs ever hatched.
>
> I may have to do some googling on the subject! I'll bet the
> environmental requirements must not be too bad as they are not very
> expensive.......

It's quite easy to breed them aparently. The males will quite often blow a
nest in the absence of a female too.

I bred a pair back in the late 1970's and I don't remeber it being that
hard. I think I just raised the temperature of the tank and made sure there
was a still area in the tank. I got about 6 males out of that (the rest got
eaten by other members of the tank) which I gave to my High School. The
mating is very interesting in that it goes from violent in courtship to
gentle in copulation.

I have a spare 10GAL cube tank here which I may divide down the centre and
get two pair and have a go breeding them, but because there are so many
around, it's not a priority really.

I'd rather breed Paradise Fish or Gourami's to be honest with you, but all
three of these species are Labyrinth Fish, so perhaps I'll just stick a
brilliant blue male in the big tank and hope he's agressive enough to keep
the curious Serpae Tetras at bay; if not he can go into the 10GAL with a
female and they can do their thing, or I'll get some "dither fish" like
Giant Danios or Rainbows.

I am not really set up for breeding though and I don't know what I'd do if
they bred sucessfully and there were even a dozen off-spring - I have no way
of maintaining the things until I can give them to the LFS.

>
> I've always wondered how Male betta's survive in the wild as they will
> rip each other up if they are ever put together in captivity!

Betta splendens is the cultivated "Siamese Fighter" we all commonly see
struggling in shops and it's only one strain of the genus - there are many
in the Betta genus and only a few of them are as aggressive as splendens in
the wild.

I read a few web pages about the genus some time ago which was very
interesting. The reason Betta splendens would fight to the death in the wild
(where the fish are actually a mucky gray/brown colour) would be because
they are locked in a water body together. All-in-all it's natural selection
at work and the loser wouldn't be the one fertilising any females also
trapped in the water body.

When they do breed there are always more males than females (as in Gouramis
and Paradise Fish) anyway, which says to me that nature has designed it this
way - survival of the fittest; strong genes etc...

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My mom did have a successful "mating" once in a 10 gallon tank for a
> > single pair, but as far as we could tell, none of the eggs ever hatched.
> >
> > I may have to do some googling on the subject! I'll bet the
> > environmental requirements must not be too bad as they are not very
> > expensive.......
>
> It's quite easy to breed them aparently. The males will quite often blow a
> nest in the absence of a female too.

Yes, I've seen them do that. ;-)
Since my current Betta has a bottom filter, the top of the water
agitates too much for him to try.

>
> I bred a pair back in the late 1970's and I don't remeber it being that
> hard. I think I just raised the temperature of the tank and made sure there
> was a still area in the tank. I got about 6 males out of that (the rest got
> eaten by other members of the tank) which I gave to my High School. The
> mating is very interesting in that it goes from violent in courtship to
> gentle in copulation.

Oh that is so cool!!!!!!

>
> I have a spare 10GAL cube tank here which I may divide down the centre and
> get two pair and have a go breeding them, but because there are so many
> around, it's not a priority really.

But you can do it just for fun. ;-)

>
> I'd rather breed Paradise Fish or Gourami's to be honest with you, but all
> three of these species are Labyrinth Fish, so perhaps I'll just stick a
> brilliant blue male in the big tank and hope he's agressive enough to keep
> the curious Serpae Tetras at bay; if not he can go into the 10GAL with a
> female and they can do their thing, or I'll get some "dither fish" like
> Giant Danios or Rainbows.

The only other Labyrinth's I've ever kept were Gouramis.
They have neat personalities too!

>
> I am not really set up for breeding though and I don't know what I'd do if
> they bred sucessfully and there were even a dozen off-spring - I have no way
> of maintaining the things until I can give them to the LFS.

The only fish I've ever personally "bred" were guppies and mollies, but
that's kind of a no-brainer. <lol> I'm especially fond of mollies!

>
> >
> > I've always wondered how Male betta's survive in the wild as they will
> > rip each other up if they are ever put together in captivity!
>
> Betta splendens is the cultivated "Siamese Fighter" we all commonly see
> struggling in shops and it's only one strain of the genus - there are many
> in the Betta genus and only a few of them are as aggressive as splendens in
> the wild.
>
> I read a few web pages about the genus some time ago which was very
> interesting. The reason Betta splendens would fight to the death in the wild
> (where the fish are actually a mucky gray/brown colour) would be because
> they are locked in a water body together. All-in-all it's natural selection
> at work and the loser wouldn't be the one fertilising any females also
> trapped in the water body.
>
> When they do breed there are always more males than females (as in Gouramis
> and Paradise Fish) anyway, which says to me that nature has designed it this
> way - survival of the fittest; strong genes etc...

Awesome! This sounds like it'd be well worth my time to study and do
some serious web searches! Just for the sheer fun of "knowing" more
about them.

Thank you!!!

>
> Oz

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
>> I have a spare 10GAL cube tank here which I may divide down the centre
>> and
>> get two pair and have a go breeding them, but because there are so many
>> around, it's not a priority really.
>
> But you can do it just for fun. ;-)

I can but a *really* want a bright blue fish in my lounge room. ;) A $5 male
blue crown-tail will do just nicely. I'll get the worries on if they start
breeding, but I had a long conversation with LFS#4 on the phone today and
it's been decided to empty the cube tank by this week end, place a glass
divider down it's middle and then recycle it by Wednesday in preparation for
male #1. I can't wait actually. Aparently females are hard to come by here
at the moment, so I'll get a blue one first, then another colour for the
other side (there are some really nice cream and yellow ones at LFS#4) and
then later add two females, one to each side. I can switch females too and
get quite a variety of off-spring from them I guess.

> The only other Labyrinth's I've ever kept were Gouramis.
> They have neat personalities too!

I've got a single male Honey Gourami atm, in the big tank. He's a real
character - very friendly and it's actually a hassle to stop him swimming
into my hand - I really think it's bad news for a fishes slime coat to be
held by a human hand - he's like a little dog actually, and the Serpae
Tetras in there with him are like little cats in temperament. I've noticed
too that the Black Phantom Tetras I got the other day (10) are very
"friendly" too. It's funny how different individuals and species of fish
have different "personalities". Here's hoping the Bettas will have some
interesting behavior other than mating and territorial agression ;)


> Awesome! This sounds like it'd be well worth my time to study and do
> some serious web searches! Just for the sheer fun of "knowing" more
> about them.

I'd say with all the information out there on them you could easily get
absorbed into them on their own without worrying about any other type of
fish ;) The whole betta genus is very interesting to me, but so are all the
Labyrinth fish, and a lot of the tetras, which I seem to be specialising in
at the moment.

There are some Cambodian betta that I read about last week somewhere on the
web and they were fascinating.

Any way check this page out!

http://www.bcbetta.com/redwash.html


>
> Thank you!!!

No probs.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >,
says...
> t's been decided to empty the cube tank by this week end, place a glass
> divider down it's middle and then recycle it by Wednesday in preparation for
> male #1.
>
With the glass down the middle, how are you going to filter and heat the
tank?

You could depend on *frequent* water changes instead of a filter, but
bettas don't like temperature variations. At least that's what I've
read.

And much heat won't transfer from one side to the other, either. And
while bettas will survive cold water, albeit sluggishly, a heater not
only keeps them warm and active, it evens out the above mentioned
temperature variations.

That's why I liked the idea on the website I mentioned earlier. It had
a plastic canvas divider across the entire back about 2-3" out. The
heater and the filter went behind that. Then the divider(s) between the
fish went in in front of that.

And finally, you may wind up, like I did, with a psycho betta that
exhausts himself against the glass and has to be where he can't see
another male. Of course, at that point you could replace him till you
find one a little more laid back :-).

I don't remember the start of this thread (old age has introduced me to
CRS), so if this has all been discussed before just ignore me :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[William A. Spellman]

Why not just use a piece of black fiberglass screen as a divider.

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> t's been decided to empty the cube tank by this week end, place a glass
>> divider down it's middle and then recycle it by Wednesday in preparation
>> for
>> male #1.
>>
> With the glass down the middle, how are you going to filter and heat the
> tank?
>
> You could depend on *frequent* water changes instead of a filter, but
> bettas don't like temperature variations. At least that's what I've
> read.
>
> And much heat won't transfer from one side to the other, either. And
> while bettas will survive cold water, albeit sluggishly, a heater not
> only keeps them warm and active, it evens out the above mentioned
> temperature variations.
>
> That's why I liked the idea on the website I mentioned earlier. It had
> a plastic canvas divider across the entire back about 2-3" out. The
> heater and the filter went behind that. Then the divider(s) between the
> fish went in in front of that.
>
> And finally, you may wind up, like I did, with a psycho betta that
> exhausts himself against the glass and has to be where he can't see
> another male. Of course, at that point you could replace him till you
> find one a little more laid back :-).
>
> I don't remember the start of this thread (old age has introduced me to
> CRS), so if this has all been discussed before just ignore me :-).
>
> --
> Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Ozdude]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...

> With the glass down the middle, how are you going to filter and heat the
> tank?

I got a sheet of clear acrylic today, so that's going to be the divider. It
was never the intention to completly seal with the divider - sorry, I should
have given more detail. I was going to be sitting on glass spacers around
the sides and bottom to allow water to pass (I can cut glass here), but now
with the acrylic it's just a matter of drilling a series of holes in rows
along the top and bottom. No problem at all.
>
> You could depend on *frequent* water changes instead of a filter, but
> bettas don't like temperature variations. At least that's what I've
> read.

You're right about the temperature thing. They get lethargic at lower
temperatures, and they are prone to velvet and itch if the temperature isn't
just right. With this flow-thru divider there will be a same temperature all
over the tank (28°C) as well as water flow around the tank. The main thing
with fry is keeping the bottom of the tank clean actually, so water changing
my be the thing for various times of the fry cycle. I don't like water
changing, so I try to make it so "filters" do the clarifying for me until
the weeklies come up. It's bad enough doing 25% of a 50GAL once a week or
more ;)

> And much heat won't transfer from one side to the other, either. And
> while bettas will survive cold water, albeit sluggishly, a heater not
> only keeps them warm and active, it evens out the above mentioned
> temperature variations.

This won't be a problem. I have sourced a double sponge filter as well which
will be part of the divder, and being acrylic I can also lay the heater down
horizontally and shape the divider around it. It's going to be removeable so
I don't see any problems thus far.

I don't envisage any flow problems, even if I had used the glass idea. I see
glass divided betta tanks all over the web that have these types of systems
and they have no problems either with heat or filtration distribution.
>
> That's why I liked the idea on the website I mentioned earlier. It had
> a plastic canvas divider across the entire back about 2-3" out. The
> heater and the filter went behind that. Then the divider(s) between the
> fish went in in front of that.

It's easier and cheaper for me to cut and drill a solid piece. The acrylic
was free. If I were to use mesh, that would need frames and fasteners,
which, quite simply, I can't afford to buy. (I do everything on a severe
budget here due to being out of work)
>
> And finally, you may wind up, like I did, with a psycho betta that
> exhausts himself against the glass and has to be where he can't see
> another male. Of course, at that point you could replace him till you
> find one a little more laid back :-).

I found two blue females (A$6 ea) today, so next week I'll get a non-blue
male (A$5) and start the tank.

I think it will be good (from what I've read recently about spawning them)
to have the two females in one side, and the male with his half drinking cup
(for the nest) in the other side for about two weeks.

In this time I can condition the lot of them by feeding live and frozen
foods, and get a feel for the operation of the tank and it's divider
(adjustments will no doubt have to be made once it's up and running), and if
by chance both females are ready for a spawn get the second male in a couple
of weeks when I move one of the females.

In doing this though I may have up to 400 fry if I'm not careful ;)

I've spoken to LFS#1 about all of this today and they told me I could get a
floating betta barraks that goes in the main tank after the parents have
been removed.

Perhaps, I'll just get two males for now though because I'm not financial
enough to get the floating thing, and neither do I want to chuck 4 bettas
into my main tank, where I'm sure there will be a fight between the male
Honey Gourami and the Betta(s) and a fin nipping extravaganza by the Serpae
Tetras ;)

There are a few options actually for the fry and no reason the parents can't
stay in the cube. We'll see how it goes over the next fortnight. I have the
get the tank ready first, so first things first.
>
> I don't remember the start of this thread (old age has introduced me to
> CRS), so if this has all been discussed before just ignore me :-).

I came in late on it, so I missed the original.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[winddancir]

I wonder if I could make a betta basket type thing with platic canvas...
Does anyone know what type of bonding agents are safe for fish and will work on plastic or glass?

[Roy]

I get all the drops and old stock from the local plastics supply house
here in my town...........Whenever somone orders a piece of "Plastic"
and less than 2 sq feet remain its classed as a drop or scrap, and
thrown in a bin for trash later on. They do not stock or keep much
drops period, no matter how large a piece it is, or any material whose
masking paper is torn or damaged.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:50:34 GMT, Brian >
wrote:

>===<>Excellent tips. Where do you come by free acrylics?
>===<>
>===<>B
>===<>
>===<>In article >,
>===<> (Roy) wrote:
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>>
>===<>> I get heaps of all kinds of acrylics in various thicknesses and colors
>===<>> and materials free for the hauling, and make quite a few aquarium
>===<>> tops, and light assemblies from it. A good smooth square joint
>===<>> soslvent welded with dichloromethylene will make a optically clear
>===<>> glue joint. Use a hypodermic syringe to wick in the solvent.
>===<>>


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I have a spare 10GAL cube tank here which I may divide down the centre
> >> and
> >> get two pair and have a go breeding them, but because there are so many
> >> around, it's not a priority really.
> >
> > But you can do it just for fun. ;-)
>
> I can but a *really* want a bright blue fish in my lounge room. ;) A $5 male
> blue crown-tail will do just nicely. I'll get the worries on if they start
> breeding, but I had a long conversation with LFS#4 on the phone today and
> it's been decided to empty the cube tank by this week end, place a glass
> divider down it's middle and then recycle it by Wednesday in preparation for
> male #1. I can't wait actually. Aparently females are hard to come by here
> at the moment, so I'll get a blue one first, then another colour for the
> other side (there are some really nice cream and yellow ones at LFS#4) and
> then later add two females, one to each side. I can switch females too and
> get quite a variety of off-spring from them I guess.

There are plenty of females at Wal-Mart. :-(

Hey, can betta's get obese?

I have a bad habit of giving just a pinch of food to my betta as he begs
everytime I go into the bathroom and turn on the room lights! He's so
cute.

I don't give him much and the two mystery snails keep any excess food
cleaned up, but I swear he is getting a slight belly! And it does not
look like any kind of illness. Just chub. :-P He eats anywhere from 3 to
5 times per day.

Guess I need to put him on a diet.

>
> > The only other Labyrinth's I've ever kept were Gouramis.
> > They have neat personalities too!
>
> I've got a single male Honey Gourami atm, in the big tank. He's a real
> character - very friendly and it's actually a hassle to stop him swimming
> into my hand -

Cool. :-)
Sounds like my fantails I had in college! I really miss fancy goldies.
The are neat fish!

> I really think it's bad news for a fishes slime coat to be
> held by a human hand - he's like a little dog actually, and the Serpae
> Tetras in there with him are like little cats in temperament. I've noticed
> too that the Black Phantom Tetras I got the other day (10) are very
> "friendly" too. It's funny how different individuals and species of fish
> have different "personalities". Here's hoping the Bettas will have some
> interesting behavior other than mating and territorial agression ;)

What do you think of black mollies?
I've not had any for well over 15 years, but I remember them with
fondness.
>
>
> > Awesome! This sounds like it'd be well worth my time to study and do
> > some serious web searches! Just for the sheer fun of "knowing" more
> > about them.
>
> I'd say with all the information out there on them you could easily get
> absorbed into them on their own without worrying about any other type of
> fish ;) The whole betta genus is very interesting to me, but so are all the
> Labyrinth fish, and a lot of the tetras, which I seem to be specialising in
> at the moment.

I have a lot of sentimental attachment to bettas.
My mom always loved them, and I lost her a couple of years ago.

>
> There are some Cambodian betta that I read about last week somewhere on the
> web and they were fascinating.
>
> Any way check this page out!
>
> http://www.bcbetta.com/redwash.html

Will do! Bookmarked for study. :)

Hey, happy valentines day! <lol>

>
>
> >
> > Thank you!!!
>
> No probs.
>
> Oz

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >,
says...
> > I've got a single male Honey Gourami atm, in the big tank. He's a real
> > character - very friendly and it's actually a hassle to stop him swimming
> > into my hand -
>
> Cool. :-)
> Sounds like my fantails I had in college! I really miss fancy goldies.
> The are neat fish!
>
One of my bettas is a real pain - he insists on investigating whatever
I'm doing. I was netting another fish the other day and had a heck of a
time keeping him out of the net. And he occasionally likes to have his
back stroked after feeding - comes up to the top and sits there till I
do it.

I still say a fish with a brain that small shouldn't have a personality
- but they do :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Katra]

In article >,
Larry Blanchard > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > > I've got a single male Honey Gourami atm, in the big tank. He's a real
> > > character - very friendly and it's actually a hassle to stop him swimming
> > > into my hand -
> >
> > Cool. :-)
> > Sounds like my fantails I had in college! I really miss fancy goldies.
> > The are neat fish!
> >
> One of my bettas is a real pain - he insists on investigating whatever
> I'm doing. I was netting another fish the other day and had a heck of a
> time keeping him out of the net. And he occasionally likes to have his
> back stroked after feeding - comes up to the top and sits there till I
> do it.
>
> I still say a fish with a brain that small shouldn't have a personality
> - but they do :-).

<lol> Thanks for the chuckle...
You are SO right!

My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
everything right?

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Elaine T]

Katra wrote:
> In article >,
> Larry Blanchard > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
says...
>>
>>
>>One of my bettas is a real pain - he insists on investigating whatever
>>I'm doing. I was netting another fish the other day and had a heck of a
>>time keeping him out of the net. And he occasionally likes to have his
>>back stroked after feeding - comes up to the top and sits there till I
>>do it.
>>
>>I still say a fish with a brain that small shouldn't have a personality
>>- but they do :-).
>
>
> <lol> Thanks for the chuckle...
> You are SO right!
>
> My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
> alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
> everything right?
>
According to the breeder I asked once, typically 2-3 years total, and
you usually buy a 6 month old fish. I've heard of bettas living as long
as 5 years, though. I had one betta that made it for 2.5 years, so he
was around 3 when he died.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Katra]

In article >,
Elaine T > wrote:

> Katra wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Larry Blanchard > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>In article >,
> says...
> >>
> >>
> >>One of my bettas is a real pain - he insists on investigating whatever
> >>I'm doing. I was netting another fish the other day and had a heck of a
> >>time keeping him out of the net. And he occasionally likes to have his
> >>back stroked after feeding - comes up to the top and sits there till I
> >>do it.
> >>
> >>I still say a fish with a brain that small shouldn't have a personality
> >>- but they do :-).
> >
> >
> > <lol> Thanks for the chuckle...
> > You are SO right!
> >
> > My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
> > alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
> > everything right?
> >
> According to the breeder I asked once, typically 2-3 years total, and
> you usually buy a 6 month old fish. I've heard of bettas living as long
> as 5 years, though. I had one betta that made it for 2.5 years, so he
> was around 3 when he died.

Thanks!

These little dudes have so MUCH personality, it really sux when they
pass on...... ;-(

Dr. Ritchie says she just replaces one right away with the same color
and tries to pretend it did not happen. <G> I did that for my mom once
and she never did discover it as far as I know. Her red Betta was dying
so I watched it carefully. As soon as it died, I went to the store and
got another red one and replaced it.

I don't know if she ever suspected I did that or not!

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> There are plenty of females at Wal-Mart. :-(

No Wal-Mart in this country and from what I've read here I wouldn't buy fish
from them in any case ;)
>
> Hey, can betta's get obese?

Sure can, and on the way they can get swim bladder problems, dropsy and all
sorts of ailments.
>
> I have a bad habit of giving just a pinch of food to my betta as he begs
> everytime I go into the bathroom and turn on the room lights! He's so
> cute.

You must resist! I feel like that too, but I resist and only feed them once
per day these days.

I know they look cute and hungry when they do this (my Honey Gourami does it
the most), but they aren't really. You must be firm with this ;)
>
> I don't give him much and the two mystery snails keep any excess food
> cleaned up, but I swear he is getting a slight belly! And it does not
> look like any kind of illness. Just chub. :-P He eats anywhere from 3 to
> 5 times per day.
>
> Guess I need to put him on a diet.

Yep ... get him down to two then one feedings per day IMO.

> What do you think of black mollies?
> I've not had any for well over 15 years, but I remember them with
> fondness.

I like the fish when there are a lot of them, but truth be known, I don't
like the shape of mollies. If I had them, I would be adding a bit of salt to
their water, which wouldn't go down too well with the Tetras, SAE's and
couple of other things in my community tank. Platys look ok though.

> Hey, happy valentines day! <lol>

Thankyou :)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Ozdude]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> One of my bettas is a real pain - he insists on investigating whatever
> I'm doing. I was netting another fish the other day and had a heck of a
> time keeping him out of the net. And he occasionally likes to have his
> back stroked after feeding - comes up to the top and sits there till I
> do it.
>
> I still say a fish with a brain that small shouldn't have a personality
> - but they do :-).

I wonder if all Labyrinth Fish have this "personable" thing? My male Honey
Gourami and both of my Paradise Fish were/are exactly the same - swimming
into the net, always at your hand, and enjoy a stroke on the dorsal every
now and again - I really have a problem with hands on slime coats though - I
think it may be bad for the fish and if your hands aren't washed in fresh
soapless water, I feel it could be detrimental to the fish.

Still, it's nice to have a fish that appears to like you for reasons other
than "feed me!" ;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
> alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
> everything right?

2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > There are plenty of females at Wal-Mart. :-(
>
> No Wal-Mart in this country and from what I've read here I wouldn't buy fish
> from them in any case ;)

I buy them out of pity...
and get the ones that seem to be the most active!

> >
> > Hey, can betta's get obese?
>
> Sure can, and on the way they can get swim bladder problems, dropsy and all
> sorts of ailments.
> >
> > I have a bad habit of giving just a pinch of food to my betta as he begs
> > everytime I go into the bathroom and turn on the room lights! He's so
> > cute.
>
> You must resist! I feel like that too, but I resist and only feed them once
> per day these days.
>
> I know they look cute and hungry when they do this (my Honey Gourami does it
> the most), but they aren't really. You must be firm with this ;)

Okay... ;-)

> >
> > I don't give him much and the two mystery snails keep any excess food
> > cleaned up, but I swear he is getting a slight belly! And it does not
> > look like any kind of illness. Just chub. :-P He eats anywhere from 3 to
> > 5 times per day.
> >
> > Guess I need to put him on a diet.
>
> Yep ... get him down to two then one feedings per day IMO.
>
> > What do you think of black mollies?
> > I've not had any for well over 15 years, but I remember them with
> > fondness.
>
> I like the fish when there are a lot of them, but truth be known, I don't
> like the shape of mollies. If I had them, I would be adding a bit of salt to
> their water, which wouldn't go down too well with the Tetras, SAE's and
> couple of other things in my community tank. Platys look ok though.

I'd heard they like brackish water.
What other fish do?

>
> > Hey, happy valentines day! <lol>
>
> Thankyou :)
>
> Oz

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

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tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

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[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
> > alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
> > everything right?
>
> 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
>
> Oz

So sad....... :-(

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

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[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...

>> I like the fish when there are a lot of them, but truth be known, I don't
>> like the shape of mollies. If I had them, I would be adding a bit of salt
>> to
>> their water, which wouldn't go down too well with the Tetras, SAE's and
>> couple of other things in my community tank. Platys look ok though.
>
> I'd heard they like brackish water.
> What other fish do?

A native Australian fish called the Pacific Blue Eye (Pseudomugil signifer)
is the only other thing I know that can handle brackish all the time. Some
of the northern Australian Rainbow Fish can handle brackish too, but they
are too expensive for me, and I'll catch some from the wild myself if I go
travelling up there ;)

I am attracted to the Pacific Blue Eye, having only just come across it. I
didn't know it was native to the Sydney region, and you can catch a whole
lot of "exotic" fw fish around here in the rivers and tributaries, things
such as "pest" mountain minnow, giant danio, Plague Minnow/Gambusia, and the
Spotted Livebearer ( a type of guppy ). There are some species of Rainbow
fish as well further up north and I go up there about once a year, but this
time I'm going up with a net and see what I can find. I bet it will be
insteresting. There is a thing called the Empire Gudgeon which looks
fascinating too.

The amount of people that flush their aquarium fish down the sewers here is
quite amazing, so I wouldn't be surprised to find Gouramis and Paradise Fish
and other things in some of the esturies around the greater Sydney region.

I've seen some Sunset Platys at LFS#2 which grab me every time I walk in,
and they are acclimatised for saltless water. They look outstanding. There
are even some Swordtails there which are just gob-smacking, but I worry
about them too (mainly agression in the males) with the nippies in my tank
(Serpae Tetra).

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Ozdude" > wrote:
>
>> "Katra" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
>> > alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
>> > everything right?
>>
>> 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
>>
>> Oz
>
> So sad....... :-(

No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their natural
environment it makes sense.

There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >,
says...
> 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
> > So sad....... :-(
>
> No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their natural
> environment it makes sense.
>
> There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
> longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)
>
And there's always killifish, some of which make bettas look drab. Many
are "annual", born when the pond fills up and laying eggs and dying when
it dries. They will live a little more than a year in an aquarium.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Ozdude" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Katra" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > My Dr. keeps betta's at her office and says she's managed to keep some
> >> > alive for 2 years. What is the normal lifespan for this fish if you do
> >> > everything right?
> >>
> >> 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
> >>
> >> Oz
> >
> > So sad....... :-(
>
> No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their natural
> environment it makes sense.
>
> There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
> longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)
>
> Oz

Oh I understand... it just makes me a bit sad when they die!

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Katra]

In article >,
Larry Blanchard > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
> > > So sad....... :-(
> >
> > No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their natural
> > environment it makes sense.
> >
> > There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
> > longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)
> >
> And there's always killifish, some of which make bettas look drab. Many
> are "annual", born when the pond fills up and laying eggs and dying when
> it dries. They will live a little more than a year in an aquarium.

I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[sophie]

In message >,
Katra > writes
>In article >,
> Larry Blanchard > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> says...
>> > 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
>> > > So sad....... :-(
>> >
>> > No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their
>> >natural
>> > environment it makes sense.
>> >
>> > There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
>> > longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)
>> >
>> And there's always killifish, some of which make bettas look drab. Many
>> are "annual", born when the pond fills up and laying eggs and dying when
>> it dries. They will live a little more than a year in an aquarium.
>
>I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
>killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????

kill-i-fish
the middle "i" is important...
>

--
sophie

[Katra]

In article >,
sophie > wrote:

> In message >,
> Katra > writes
> >In article >,
> > Larry Blanchard > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >> > 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
> >> > > So sad....... :-(
> >> >
> >> > No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their
> >> >natural
> >> > environment it makes sense.
> >> >
> >> > There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
> >> > longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)
> >> >
> >> And there's always killifish, some of which make bettas look drab. Many
> >> are "annual", born when the pond fills up and laying eggs and dying when
> >> it dries. They will live a little more than a year in an aquarium.
> >
> >I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
> >killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????
>
> kill-i-fish
> the middle "i" is important...
> >

Oh! ;-) <blush>

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Katra]

In article >,
sophie > wrote:

> In message >,
> Katra > writes
> >In article >,
> > Larry Blanchard > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> says...
> >> > 2 to 3 years. Thes fish live fast ;)
> >> > > So sad....... :-(
> >> >
> >> > No. Quite normal for this fast living fish. When you consider their
> >> >natural
> >> > environment it makes sense.
> >> >
> >> > There are fw fish that live in the desert streams here that live not much
> >> > longer than 6 months, so the Betta is quite fortunate really ;)
> >> >
> >> And there's always killifish, some of which make bettas look drab. Many
> >> are "annual", born when the pond fills up and laying eggs and dying when
> >> it dries. They will live a little more than a year in an aquarium.
> >
> >I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
> >killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????
>
> kill-i-fish
> the middle "i" is important...
> >

Looks like there are quite a variety of them. :-)
Not quite as "finny" as a betta, but look very colorful!

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

[Ozdude]

"Katra" > wrote in message
...
>> >I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
>> >killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????
>>
>> kill-i-fish
>> the middle "i" is important...
>> >
>
> Looks like there are quite a variety of them. :-)
> Not quite as "finny" as a betta, but look very colorful!

Killi's are hard to get here in Oz - you can't just walk into the LFS and
get them. They appear to be a spciast fish in this country and can only be
obtained from a Killifish Club ;(

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >,
says...
>
> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
> >> >killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????
> >>
> >> kill-i-fish
> >> the middle "i" is important...
> >> >
> >
> > Looks like there are quite a variety of them. :-)
> > Not quite as "finny" as a betta, but look very colorful!
>
> Killi's are hard to get here in Oz - you can't just walk into the LFS and
> get them. They appear to be a spciast fish in this country and can only be
> obtained from a Killifish Club ;(
>
Same here in the US - at leazt in the northwest where I live. But you
can buy them online, and as I mentioned before, the eggs as well. Seems
the eggs would be the way to go.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Katra]

In article >,
"Ozdude" > wrote:

> "Katra" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >I Googled for Killfish, and the only one I could find was the banded
> >> >killfish. I did not think it was that pretty???????
> >>
> >> kill-i-fish
> >> the middle "i" is important...
> >> >
> >
> > Looks like there are quite a variety of them. :-)
> > Not quite as "finny" as a betta, but look very colorful!
>
> Killi's are hard to get here in Oz - you can't just walk into the LFS and
> get them. They appear to be a spciast fish in this country and can only be
> obtained from a Killifish Club ;(
>
> Oz

I don't recall seeing them in petshops here either...

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

As we go through life thinking heavy thoughts, thought particles
tend to get caught between the ears causing truth decay- so be sure
to use mental floss twice a day. -- Swami Beyondanada

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

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[steve]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> Same here in the US - at leazt in the northwest where I live. But
you
> can buy them online, and as I mentioned before, the eggs as well.
Seems
> the eggs would be the way to go.
>

Larry, A few just showed up here in Everett at Pet Pourri. Not the
spectacular colorful variety I've seen on web pages, but nice specimens
none the less.

steve

[Vicki PS]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
...
> I am attracted to the Pacific Blue Eye, having only just come across it. I
> didn't know it was native to the Sydney region, and you can catch a whole
> lot of "exotic" fw fish around here in the rivers and tributaries, things
> such as "pest" mountain minnow, giant danio, Plague Minnow/Gambusia, and
the
> Spotted Livebearer ( a type of guppy ).

Pacific blue-eyes are neat little fish! They're pretty undemanding, and are
good community fish in either tropical or cold water set-ups. In ponds,
they clean up the mozzie wrigglers, too.

Re. empire gudgeons, my lfs sells them as feeders.

Vicki PS

[Ozdude]

"Vicki PS" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ozdude" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I am attracted to the Pacific Blue Eye, having only just come across it.
>> I
>> didn't know it was native to the Sydney region, and you can catch a whole
>> lot of "exotic" fw fish around here in the rivers and tributaries, things
>> such as "pest" mountain minnow, giant danio, Plague Minnow/Gambusia, and
> the
>> Spotted Livebearer ( a type of guppy ).
>
> Pacific blue-eyes are neat little fish! They're pretty undemanding, and
> are
> good community fish in either tropical or cold water set-ups. In ponds,
> they clean up the mozzie wrigglers, too.
>
> Re. empire gudgeons, my lfs sells them as feeders.

Hi Vicky,

I haven't found a LFS with them yet, but I'm sure they can get them in from
a breeder in Pooraka, SA, if I order them.

I am still not sure whether to go ahead with my pond, which I was going to
stock with Paradise fish, Murray River Rainbows and Pacific Blue Eyes.

If I get some, how many? Do they need to be in school? I am new to them.

Oz

[Vicki PS]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Vicky,
>
> I haven't found a LFS with them yet, but I'm sure they can get them in
from
> a breeder in Pooraka, SA, if I order them.
>
> I am still not sure whether to go ahead with my pond, which I was going to
> stock with Paradise fish, Murray River Rainbows and Pacific Blue Eyes.
>
> If I get some, how many? Do they need to be in school? I am new to them.

Sorry, 'Dude, for some reason I missed following this up.

Blue-eyes are a schooling fish, although they seem to be more individualist
than a lot of schooling species. How many you get will depend on the size
of your pond B^} Go for one male to each two or three females. If you're
going to stock paradise fish as well, it might be a good idea to get extras!

Vicki PS

[Lilly]

I have personally seen P. longipinnis, annual killies from S. America,
that were four to six years old. I think the "annual" part refers more
to the natural weather/wet cycle of their native lands than to their
lifespans in aquaria.

Killies are cool. If you keep them, a tight fitting no holes (yes they
can aim) lid is required if you don't want fish chips. :-)

Lilly

[Richard Sexton]

In article om>,
Lilly > wrote:
>I have personally seen P. longipinnis, annual killies from S. America,
>that were four to six years old. I think the "annual" part refers more
>to the natural weather/wet cycle of their native lands than to their
>lifespans in aquaria.

How do you know they were that old? While African "annual" killies can
live up to about two years, South American "annuals" are true annuals
and can not live more than, at best 14 mos. They use them in studies of
aging because of this property.

--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Lilly]

OK, I talked to the person who had these long lived longipinnis. Both
of our recollections are in the four year range. I don't know where I
got the six from, mea culpa. Why they lived so long, we're not sure
(cooler space in the fishroom, lightly fed, light tank stocking, lots
of plants, a particularly good strain of wild caught parents [these
long lived ones were F1], etc...).

It struck him odd that you state that annuals don't live more than 14
months since that hasn't been his experience with most annuals. FWIW,
he's been keeping killies for probably going on 30 years now.

Lilly

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article om>,
> Lilly > wrote:

> How do you know they were that old? While African "annual" killies
can
> live up to about two years, South American "annuals" are true annuals
> and can not live more than, at best 14 mos. They use them in studies
of
> aging because of this property.
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
Lilly > wrote:
>OK, I talked to the person who had these long lived longipinnis. Both
>of our recollections are in the four year range. I don't know where I
>got the six from, mea culpa. Why they lived so long, we're not sure
>(cooler space in the fishroom, lightly fed, light tank stocking, lots
>of plants, a particularly good strain of wild caught parents [these
>long lived ones were F1], etc...).
>
>It struck him odd that you state that annuals don't live more than 14
>months since that hasn't been his experience with most annuals. FWIW,
>he's been keeping killies for probably going on 30 years now.

So I probaly know him. Who is it?


--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Lilly]

I asked him when I was confirming the age of the longipinnis. He
doesn't know you, so you probably don't know him. :-)

Lilly

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article . com>,

> So I probaly know him. Who is it?

[Richard Sexton]

Odd. The killi world is not big. I'll ask around to double check
but I've sure never heard of ON getting 4 years. Not even 2,
and eys that's kept cold, f1 or wild.

In article om>,
Lilly > wrote:
>I asked him when I was confirming the age of the longipinnis. He
>doesn't know you, so you probably don't know him. :-)
>
>Lilly
>
>Richard Sexton wrote:
>> In article . com>,
>
>> So I probaly know him. Who is it?
>


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org