dead fish

[Joel]

We had a few cold days here in the Toronto. Canada area a week or so ago
and despite my best efforts I could not keep a hole open on my covered
pond.

last week when it warmed up and went out and cut a hole in the ice and
shined a flashlight into the deep area and saw one of my large 14" koi dead
on the bottom.

Although I know some fish are alive, I saw a few 6" fish, there are others
I could not see, so this spring after the ice melts, I have some cleaning
up to do, I just don't know how many.

I had an airline running, but any moisture in the airline iced up and
blocked the air which is when my hole froze over.

Joel

[Gale Pearce]

> We had a few cold days here in the Toronto. Canada area a week or so ago
and despite my best efforts I could not keep a hole open on my covered pond.
last week when it warmed up and went out and cut a hole in the ice and
shined a flashlight into the deep area and saw one of my large 14" koi dead
on the bottom.

> I had an airline running, but any moisture in the airline iced up and
> blocked the air which is when my hole froze over.

Hi Joel - I am 35 miles east of Windsor and was having the same weather as
you. My airstone hole was freezing over like yours on the coldest days and
nights and I had to constantly keep opening the hole when that happened with
either a tea kettle or a steel rod - if you let the "ice dome" freeze over
solid it will start to thicken and be next to impossible to open - that
happened to me 2 yrs ago and I had to use a 1500 watt heater that I sat on
the ice and let it melt it's way through to open the pond back up
I also have my airpump 3' off the ground (on my waterfall "hill") and the
airline runs on a constant slope downwards with no low hanging loops for
moisture to collect in during thaw/freeze temp cycles, but we haven't had
any above freezing temps around here - have you? If not, I would suspect the
hole froze over solid enough to stop the airflow, rather than the line
freezing up
If you aren't able to check the air hole daily in the really cold temps,
maybe you will need to use a 1200 or 1500 watt heater on a timer for a
couple hours a day with your airstone
I have been using an air pump for 10 yrs now with the airstone no deeper
than 3" and it has worked fine for me even in the coldest winters, except
when I got lazy about keeping the hole open a couple yrs ago, although T.O.
has a bit cooler temps, I believe
It sounds like lack of oxygen, or rise in toxic gases as the largest fish
are the first to suffer in those cases
Sorry to hear about your losses
Gale :~)

[Joel]

"Gale Pearce" > wrote in
:

>
>> We had a few cold days here in the Toronto. Canada area a week or so
>> ago
> and despite my best efforts I could not keep a hole open on my covered
> pond. last week when it warmed up and went out and cut a hole in the
> ice and shined a flashlight into the deep area and saw one of my large
> 14" koi dead on the bottom.
>
>> I had an airline running, but any moisture in the airline iced up and
>> blocked the air which is when my hole froze over.
>
> Hi Joel - I am 35 miles east of Windsor and was having the same
> weather as you. My airstone hole was freezing over like yours on the
> coldest days and nights and I had to constantly keep opening the hole
> when that happened with either a tea kettle or a steel rod - if you
> let the "ice dome" freeze over solid it will start to thicken and be
> next to impossible to open - that happened to me 2 yrs ago and I had
> to use a 1500 watt heater that I sat on the ice and let it melt it's
> way through to open the pond back up
> I also have my airpump 3' off the ground (on my waterfall "hill")
> and the
> airline runs on a constant slope downwards with no low hanging loops
> for moisture to collect in during thaw/freeze temp cycles, but we
> haven't had any above freezing temps around here - have you? If not, I
> would suspect the hole froze over solid enough to stop the airflow,
> rather than the line freezing up
> If you aren't able to check the air hole daily in the really cold
> temps,
> maybe you will need to use a 1200 or 1500 watt heater on a timer for
> a couple hours a day with your airstone
> I have been using an air pump for 10 yrs now with the airstone no
> deeper
> than 3" and it has worked fine for me even in the coldest winters,
> except when I got lazy about keeping the hole open a couple yrs ago,
> although T.O. has a bit cooler temps, I believe
> It sounds like lack of oxygen, or rise in toxic gases as the
> largest fish
> are the first to suffer in those cases
> Sorry to hear about your losses
> Gale :~)
>
>
>

Thats a good idea about having the airline run downhill to keep moisture
going down and out.
My pond is small, 5 x 4 and 36" at the deep end, the ice is only 2" thick
and the airline was keeping a hole open, but the line froze up like I
said, I think next year Im goin gto try something different, put PVC pipe
from the pond to where I keep the air pump which is under my deck 3 feet
away, maybe as long as no snow or ice builds up on the airline, less
mositure will freeze up on it.

it is above 0C now, and I did the same thing, a poured hot water over the
airline to clear it up.
I was checking the pond once a week, so the last time I checked it, it
was fine, but during a week of cold unseasoned weather, everything went
bad.

I did try and get to the back earlier, but the gate was snowed in, I
couldnt get to the deck from the sliding door as it was snow in, the only
option was to climb the fense and that day when I was tring, it was -40C
give or take.

Everyear is a lesson learned.

My first year I had the pond, I didnt cover it up and I didnt have any
fish inside as it was too late in the season to stock it, so I used the
pond as a trial run over the winter, that year we also had -40C cold
snaps and by spring when the snow was gone, I measured the ice to be 30"
thick, good thing there were no fish that year.

I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
$200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it seem to
work when its working.

Joel.

[ROSS TISDALE]

Hello I am in southern Ontario as well with a preform 220 gal pond I built a
cover for it and have a floating heater I purchased from TSC a few years
back but the heater I have can be difficult to find they only carried this
type for a short time under $ 40.00 and cost to run with the cover over it
is low , as the snow also insulates it this year I have my pump running as
well with a modified piping to keep the water moving . I checked them this
past weekend every one survived has there was some nights I was wondering
"Joel" > wrote in message
4...
> "Gale Pearce" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>>> We had a few cold days here in the Toronto. Canada area a week or so
>>> ago
>> and despite my best efforts I could not keep a hole open on my covered
>> pond. last week when it warmed up and went out and cut a hole in the
>> ice and shined a flashlight into the deep area and saw one of my large
>> 14" koi dead on the bottom.
>>
>>> I had an airline running, but any moisture in the airline iced up and
>>> blocked the air which is when my hole froze over.
>>
>> Hi Joel - I am 35 miles east of Windsor and was having the same
>> weather as you. My airstone hole was freezing over like yours on the
>> coldest days and nights and I had to constantly keep opening the hole
>> when that happened with either a tea kettle or a steel rod - if you
>> let the "ice dome" freeze over solid it will start to thicken and be
>> next to impossible to open - that happened to me 2 yrs ago and I had
>> to use a 1500 watt heater that I sat on the ice and let it melt it's
>> way through to open the pond back up
>> I also have my airpump 3' off the ground (on my waterfall "hill")
>> and the
>> airline runs on a constant slope downwards with no low hanging loops
>> for moisture to collect in during thaw/freeze temp cycles, but we
>> haven't had any above freezing temps around here - have you? If not, I
>> would suspect the hole froze over solid enough to stop the airflow,
>> rather than the line freezing up
>> If you aren't able to check the air hole daily in the really cold
>> temps,
>> maybe you will need to use a 1200 or 1500 watt heater on a timer for
>> a couple hours a day with your airstone
>> I have been using an air pump for 10 yrs now with the airstone no
>> deeper
>> than 3" and it has worked fine for me even in the coldest winters,
>> except when I got lazy about keeping the hole open a couple yrs ago,
>> although T.O. has a bit cooler temps, I believe
>> It sounds like lack of oxygen, or rise in toxic gases as the
>> largest fish
>> are the first to suffer in those cases
>> Sorry to hear about your losses
>> Gale :~)
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thats a good idea about having the airline run downhill to keep moisture
> going down and out.
> My pond is small, 5 x 4 and 36" at the deep end, the ice is only 2" thick
> and the airline was keeping a hole open, but the line froze up like I
> said, I think next year Im goin gto try something different, put PVC pipe
> from the pond to where I keep the air pump which is under my deck 3 feet
> away, maybe as long as no snow or ice builds up on the airline, less
> mositure will freeze up on it.
>
> it is above 0C now, and I did the same thing, a poured hot water over the
> airline to clear it up.
> I was checking the pond once a week, so the last time I checked it, it
> was fine, but during a week of cold unseasoned weather, everything went
> bad.
>
> I did try and get to the back earlier, but the gate was snowed in, I
> couldnt get to the deck from the sliding door as it was snow in, the only
> option was to climb the fense and that day when I was tring, it was -40C
> give or take.
>
> Everyear is a lesson learned.
>
> My first year I had the pond, I didnt cover it up and I didnt have any
> fish inside as it was too late in the season to stock it, so I used the
> pond as a trial run over the winter, that year we also had -40C cold
> snaps and by spring when the snow was gone, I measured the ice to be 30"
> thick, good thing there were no fish that year.
>
> I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
> $200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it seem to
> work when its working.
>
> Joel.

[Joel]

"ROSS TISDALE" > wrote in
:

> Hello I am in southern Ontario as well with a preform 220 gal pond I
> built a cover for it and have a floating heater I purchased from TSC
> a few years back but the heater I have can be difficult to find they
> only carried this type for a short time under $ 40.00 and cost to run
> with the cover over it is low , as the snow also insulates it this
> year I have my pump running as well with a modified piping to keep the
> water moving . I checked them this past weekend every one survived
> has there was some nights I was wondering "Joel"
> > wrote in message
> 4...
>> "Gale Pearce" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>>> We had a few cold days here in the Toronto. Canada area a week or
>>>> so ago
>>> and despite my best efforts I could not keep a hole open on my
>>> covered pond. last week when it warmed up and went out and cut a
>>> hole in the ice and shined a flashlight into the deep area and saw
>>> one of my large 14" koi dead on the bottom.
>>>
>>>> I had an airline running, but any moisture in the airline iced up
>>>> and blocked the air which is when my hole froze over.
>>>
>>> Hi Joel - I am 35 miles east of Windsor and was having the same
>>> weather as you. My airstone hole was freezing over like yours on the
>>> coldest days and nights and I had to constantly keep opening the
>>> hole when that happened with either a tea kettle or a steel rod - if
>>> you let the "ice dome" freeze over solid it will start to thicken
>>> and be next to impossible to open - that happened to me 2 yrs ago
>>> and I had to use a 1500 watt heater that I sat on the ice and let it
>>> melt it's way through to open the pond back up
>>> I also have my airpump 3' off the ground (on my waterfall "hill")
>>> and the
>>> airline runs on a constant slope downwards with no low hanging loops
>>> for moisture to collect in during thaw/freeze temp cycles, but we
>>> haven't had any above freezing temps around here - have you? If not,
>>> I would suspect the hole froze over solid enough to stop the
>>> airflow, rather than the line freezing up
>>> If you aren't able to check the air hole daily in the really cold
>>> temps,
>>> maybe you will need to use a 1200 or 1500 watt heater on a timer
>>> for a couple hours a day with your airstone
>>> I have been using an air pump for 10 yrs now with the airstone
>>> no deeper
>>> than 3" and it has worked fine for me even in the coldest winters,
>>> except when I got lazy about keeping the hole open a couple yrs ago,
>>> although T.O. has a bit cooler temps, I believe
>>> It sounds like lack of oxygen, or rise in toxic gases as the
>>> largest fish
>>> are the first to suffer in those cases
I just pulled back more of my cover to expose half my pond, looks like
both my koi are dead, fish can be stupic, you spully them with a deep end
and they freeze on a rock in the shallow end.

I had the koi for 3 years, got them when they were 2 inches, now dead at
14 inches, oh well, I still have a bunch of smaller fish that survived,
maybe I'll stay will small fish and not go with koi again.

If I could find a heater for under $100 CDN, I would buy one, but have
yet to see any for under 175.00

Joel

>>> Sorry to hear about your losses
>>> Gale :~)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thats a good idea about having the airline run downhill to keep
>> moisture going down and out.
>> My pond is small, 5 x 4 and 36" at the deep end, the ice is only 2"
>> thick and the airline was keeping a hole open, but the line froze up
>> like I said, I think next year Im goin gto try something different,
>> put PVC pipe from the pond to where I keep the air pump which is
>> under my deck 3 feet away, maybe as long as no snow or ice builds up
>> on the airline, less mositure will freeze up on it.
>>
>> it is above 0C now, and I did the same thing, a poured hot water over
>> the airline to clear it up.
>> I was checking the pond once a week, so the last time I checked it,
>> it was fine, but during a week of cold unseasoned weather, everything
>> went bad.
>>
>> I did try and get to the back earlier, but the gate was snowed in, I
>> couldnt get to the deck from the sliding door as it was snow in, the
>> only option was to climb the fense and that day when I was tring, it
>> was -40C give or take.
>>
>> Everyear is a lesson learned.
>>
>> My first year I had the pond, I didnt cover it up and I didnt have
>> any fish inside as it was too late in the season to stock it, so I
>> used the pond as a trial run over the winter, that year we also had
>> -40C cold snaps and by spring when the snow was gone, I measured the
>> ice to be 30" thick, good thing there were no fish that year.
>>
>> I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
>> $200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it
>> seem to work when its working.
>>
>> Joel.
>
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>I just pulled back more of my cover to expose half my pond, looks like
>both my koi are dead, fish can be stupic, you spully them with a deep end
>and they freeze on a rock in the shallow end.

They frozen in the shallow end only because there wasn't enough O2 in the
deep end. If koi are rising off the bottom of a pond at all during winter,
there is something wrong with the bottom, rarely is it them.

>I had the koi for 3 years, got them when they were 2 inches, now dead at
>14 inches, oh well, I still have a bunch of smaller fish that survived,
>maybe I'll stay will small fish and not go with koi again.
>
>If I could find a heater for under $100 CDN, I would buy one, but have
>yet to see any for under 175.00

Stock tank heater and air pump. www.aqua-mart.com or better, go to your
local feed & grain, ranch & home type store. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Gale Pearce]

> I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
> $200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it seem to
> work when its working.

Joel - as Ross said, go to TSC or another farm co-op store and ask for a
floating heater for livestock water troughs - they run from $30 - $50 and
are 1250 or 1500 watt floating heaters . I don't use one as my airstone
works fine as long as I keep an eye on it - If I used one I would have it on
a timer and run ~ 2 hrs /day ( I had one 10 yrs ago and only plugged it in a
few hrs at a time on really cold days) . They do like their hydro
Gale :~)

[Bill Stock]

"Joel" > wrote in message
4...

[snip]

> I just pulled back more of my cover to expose half my pond, looks like
> both my koi are dead, fish can be stupic, you spully them with a deep end
> and they freeze on a rock in the shallow end.
>
> I had the koi for 3 years, got them when they were 2 inches, now dead at
> 14 inches, oh well, I still have a bunch of smaller fish that survived,
> maybe I'll stay will small fish and not go with koi again.
>
> If I could find a heater for under $100 CDN, I would buy one, but have
> yet to see any for under 175.00
>
> Joel

Hi Joel,

Sorry to hear about your Koi. I decided to check on my GF after your
experience, but I don't see any of the little buggers! They're either dead
at the bottom or hiding where I can't see them. I'll have to put some new
batteries in the flashlight and look after dusk.

This is what I use for my heater:
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22415;category_id=3059But I built my own temperature sensor to control it, as the min temperaturesetting is 68°F. I haven't had any ice all winter and the heater is only 300watts. Of course it's all a little moot, if the buggers are belly up.

[Joel]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in
:

> http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22415;categor
> y_id=3059But

So your just using a stock tank heater for your pond ?

Joel.

[Joel]

"Gale Pearce" > wrote in
:

>
>> I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
>> $200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it
>> seem to work when its working.
>
> Joel - as Ross said, go to TSC or another farm co-op store and ask
> for a
> floating heater for livestock water troughs - they run from $30 - $50
> and are 1250 or 1500 watt floating heaters . I don't use one as my
> airstone works fine as long as I keep an eye on it - If I used one I
> would have it on a timer and run ~ 2 hrs /day ( I had one 10 yrs ago
> and only plugged it in a few hrs at a time on really cold days) . They
> do like their hydro
> Gale :~)
>
>
>

I'll have to look for a heater for the summer, I know I dont need it on all
the time, just when it hits -30C which doesnt happen to often.

I took another look today and saw many small ones have survived, small are
ones are 1.5 to 3" in size.

Joel

[Joel]

Joel > wrote in
:

> "Gale Pearce" > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>>> I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
>>> $200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it
>>> seem to work when its working.
>>
>> Joel - as Ross said, go to TSC or another farm co-op store and ask
>> for a
>> floating heater for livestock water troughs - they run from $30 - $50
>> and are 1250 or 1500 watt floating heaters . I don't use one as my
>> airstone works fine as long as I keep an eye on it - If I used one I
>> would have it on a timer and run ~ 2 hrs /day ( I had one 10 yrs ago
>> and only plugged it in a few hrs at a time on really cold days) .
>> They do like their hydro
>> Gale :~)
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'll have to look for a heater for the summer, I know I dont need it
> on all the time, just when it hits -30C which doesnt happen to often.
>
> I took another look today and saw many small ones have survived, small
> are ones are 1.5 to 3" in size.
>
> Joel
>

I should have looked online for heaters, I checked and they have one that
would have done the job.

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=26635
&category_id=2113&pcid1=2153

the cheapest I could fine in a retail store were from 175 to 250, the link
above is 80.00, damn.

Joel

[Bill Stock]

"Joel" > wrote in message
5...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in
> :
>
>> http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22415;categor
>> y_id=3059But
>
> So your just using a stock tank heater for your pond ?
>
> Joel.

It's actually a titanium aquarium heater. My pond is only about 500 gallons,
so 300 watts is more than enough to keep it thawed. It only runs a few
minutes a day, unless the temps drop.

[Bill Stock]

"Joel" > wrote in message
5...
> Joel > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Gale Pearce" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>>> I looked into getting a pond heater, but I wasnt prepared to spend
>>>> $200.00, I'll just have to check more ofter withthe airline as it
>>>> seem to work when its working.
>>>
>>> Joel - as Ross said, go to TSC or another farm co-op store and ask
>>> for a
>>> floating heater for livestock water troughs - they run from $30 - $50
>>> and are 1250 or 1500 watt floating heaters . I don't use one as my
>>> airstone works fine as long as I keep an eye on it - If I used one I
>>> would have it on a timer and run ~ 2 hrs /day ( I had one 10 yrs ago
>>> and only plugged it in a few hrs at a time on really cold days) .
>>> They do like their hydro
>>> Gale :~)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'll have to look for a heater for the summer, I know I dont need it
>> on all the time, just when it hits -30C which doesnt happen to often.
>>
>> I took another look today and saw many small ones have survived, small
>> are ones are 1.5 to 3" in size.
>>
>> Joel
>>
>
> I should have looked online for heaters, I checked and they have one that
> would have done the job.
>
> http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=26635
> &category_id=2113&pcid1=2153

Here's a few more for you:

http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/ushop/Pond-Heaters.html?L+scstore+kfwz8274ff9dec9d+1107914802

http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c28313.2.html



> the cheapest I could fine in a retail store were from 175 to 250, the link
> above is 80.00, damn.
>
> Joel

[Janet]

Joel, I had to buy a new stock tank deicer this year. Headed to TSC and
picked one up for $29.99. It keeps my pond open all winter here in Niagara
Falls. I go out each and every day and I get to enjoy the fish right through
the winter. It's thermostatically controlled to only kick in when the water
is below 40 degrees, it's not recommened to put them on a timer. We ran
several of them for years, to actually keep stock tanks open for a herd of
cows. They really don't use any more electricity than my pump. :o)
Janet in foggy, raining Niagara Falls,ON

--

"Joel" > wrote in message
5...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in
> :
>
>> http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22415;categor
>> y_id=3059But
>
> So your just using a stock tank heater for your pond ?
>
> Joel.

[Joel]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in
:

> http://www.mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/ushop/Pond-Heaters.html?L+scsto
> re+kfwz8274ff9dec9d+1107914802

Thanks.. even better

Joel.

[Gale Pearce]

"> is below 40 degrees, it's not recommened to put them on a timer. We ran
> several of them for years, to actually keep stock tanks open for a herd of
> cows. They really don't use any more electricity than my pump. :o)
> Janet in foggy, raining Niagara Falls,ON

Hi Janet - I never heard you shouldn't put them on a timer - when I used
mine 9 yrs ago, I only plugged it in when it got really cold for a few hrs
at a time, well that is until 2 yrs ago when I had to use it to melt its
way into the pond. It ran for a day and a half that time to get a good size
hole opened up. I keep an eye on my bubbler from now on and I get rid of any
ice dome on the real cold days
How big a pump do you use ? - That heater must run almost constantly as
they will run whenever your pond water reaches 40 to 42F
My pump is a 2500 gal @ ~280 watts and the heater was 1500 watts
Gale :~) in snowing Tilbury

[[email protected]]

I live in Ohio and have used a stock pond deicer for years . Have
three tier ponds have a pump and heater in lower pond - plug in heater
when they start freezing- the pump circulates the water and keeps three
ponds ice free.Had to cover with netting this year had a Blue Heron
visiting took one gold fish. He has returned a couple of times to check
it out.