water change causes cloudy water and residue (fish distress)

[John Rogers]

I have had a problem recently during water changes. I have kept a 55
Gal freshwater tank with silver dollars and angels. Water changes are
made with a python gravel cleaner, and I refill right from the tap, then
add chlorine neutralizer and some freshwater aquarium salt. For years I
have had no problem, but the last few changes have resulted in the
aquarium clouding up within several hours of the change. The fish are
also distressed and stay at the surface with rapid gill movement. The
next day the matter is corrected, fish back to normal, and the white
substance that had clouded the water is now a white residue that settles
out on to everything - including the glass, which I scrape off with
the algee magnet. The water is crystal clear at this point.

My water is hard, and I have used a water softener. The filler hose
from my kitchen would take part un-softened water (from the cold water
tap) mixed with some softened water from the hot tap that I adjust to
approximate the temperature of the aquarium.

For years I have not has a problem and the fish have always been better
after water change rather than worse. I don't recall changing anything
that I've been doing for years.

The chlorine neutralizer is stuff I mix myself with sodium thiosulfate.
But again, I've been repeating this process for years and have had
no problem until recently. This appears to be more of a chemical
reaction of some type than a bacterial. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

jr

[Robert Flory]

"John Rogers" > wrote in message
...
>I have had a problem recently during water changes. I have kept a 55 Gal
>freshwater tank with silver dollars and angels. Water changes are made
>with a python gravel cleaner, and I refill right from the tap, then add
>chlorine neutralizer and some freshwater aquarium salt. For years I have
>had no problem, but the last few changes have resulted in the aquarium
>clouding up within several hours of the change.
SNIP
> The chlorine neutralizer is stuff I mix myself with sodium thiosulfate.
> But again, I've been repeating this process for years and have had no
> problem until recently. This appears to be more of a chemical reaction of
> some type than a bacterial. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> jr
>
>
Your water may have chloramine .....and you are getting a ammonia bump.

Bob

[DeeOooGee]

"John Rogers" > wrote in message
...
> I have had a problem recently during water changes. I have kept a 55
> Gal freshwater tank with silver dollars and angels. Water changes are
> made with a python gravel cleaner, and I refill right from the tap, then
> add chlorine neutralizer and some freshwater aquarium salt. For years I
> have had no problem, but the last few changes have resulted in the
> aquarium clouding up within several hours of the change. The fish are
> also distressed and stay at the surface with rapid gill movement. The
> next day the matter is corrected, fish back to normal, and the white
> substance that had clouded the water is now a white residue that settles
<snip>

one solution would be to go to your local water store (even grocery store)
and buy RO water. I get mine for 25 cents a gallon! Your fish will love
you for it.

[Robert Flory]

"DeeOooGee" > wrote in message
news:mEVNd.54738$EG1.15833@attbi_s53...
>
> "John Rogers" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I have had a problem recently during water changes. I have kept a 55
>> Gal freshwater tank with silver dollars and angels. Water changes are
>> made with a python gravel cleaner, and I refill right from the tap, then
>> add chlorine neutralizer and some freshwater aquarium salt. For years I
>> have had no problem, but the last few changes have resulted in the
>> aquarium clouding up within several hours of the change. The fish are
>> also distressed and stay at the surface with rapid gill movement. The
>> next day the matter is corrected, fish back to normal, and the white
>> substance that had clouded the water is now a white residue that settles
> <snip>
>
> one solution would be to go to your local water store (even grocery store)
> and buy RO water. I get mine for 25 cents a gallon! Your fish will love
> you for it.
>
Depends on the fish. Most need more electrolites/minerals than pure R/O
water would have.

Bob

[Billy]

"Robert Flory" > wrote in message
...
|
| Depends on the fish. Most need more electrolites/minerals than
pure R/O
| water would have.
|

I don't believe this is significant enough to be concerned about. I,
and thousands of other fishkeepers around the world, use nothing but
RO\DI water, and are quite pleased with the results.

billy

[Robert Flory]

Plants need need the minetrals and traces, so do fish. I doubt many people
are scuessfull with pure D/O, not without adding electrolytes. I doubt food
would do the trick.

Too low a kH and gH in a planted tank would mean trouble, a pH crash most
likely,not very health fish.

I think you will find that people who use DO/DI water are mixing with hard
water to meet the needs of soft water loving fish.

The original question was about cloudiness. An ammonia spike caused by
treating only the clhorine in chloramine water will do it.
see below. Google Sodium thiosulfate + chloramine


OR
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_chlorine.htm

Use a product that handles both or your fish suffer.

Bob
>
> "Robert Flory" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | Depends on the fish. Most need more electrolites/minerals than
> pure R/O
> | water would have.
> |
>
> I don't believe this is significant enough to be concerned about. I,
> and thousands of other fishkeepers around the world, use nothing but
> RO\DI water, and are quite pleased with the results.
>
> billy
>
>

[Margolis]

I don't know anybody that uses pure ro/di water. That would almost be
suicide. Most add some baking soda and other minerals to restore the proper
balance. The fish and plants need the electrolytes and minerals in the
water to survive. And with 0kh, your ph would have a tendency to crash to
fatal levels for most fish.

Just my 2¢

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Elaine T]

Margolis wrote:
> I don't know anybody that uses pure ro/di water. That would almost be
> suicide. Most add some baking soda and other minerals to restore the proper
> balance. The fish and plants need the electrolytes and minerals in the
> water to survive. And with 0kh, your ph would have a tendency to crash to
> fatal levels for most fish.
>
> Just my 2¢
>
Agreed. I buy the 25 cent/gallon RO water and mix it 50/50 with my
liquid rock tapwater. That brings the pH down from 7.8 to a more
reasonable 7.4.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[John Rogers]

Thanks for all the help - sadly, it came too late. I returned home from
work this morning and found I lost 7 of my fish, including 2 large
silver dollars and 1 angel that were about 10 years old (only 4 small
angels are hanging in there). This is really strange - even the gravel
is covered with this white residue (a major hit this time, and I wasn't
home to tend to the emergency). I will look into your suggestions to
determine the cause of this so I can avoid a future tragedy before I
replace any innocent fish to suffer the same fate. It will be a while
before I get used to not seeing those big guys around the tank. I can't
ever remember having such a loss as this, and I've been keeping fresh
water tanks for almost 30 years.

Thanks for all the help,

John Rogers


Elaine T wrote:
> Margolis wrote:
>
>> I don't know anybody that uses pure ro/di water. That would almost be
>> suicide. Most add some baking soda and other minerals to restore the
>> proper
>> balance. The fish and plants need the electrolytes and minerals in the
>> water to survive. And with 0kh, your ph would have a tendency to
>> crash to
>> fatal levels for most fish.
>>
>> Just my 2¢
>>
> Agreed. I buy the 25 cent/gallon RO water and mix it 50/50 with my
> liquid rock tapwater. That brings the pH down from 7.8 to a more
> reasonable 7.4.
>

[Billy]

"Margolis" > wrote in message
...
|I don't know anybody that uses pure ro/di water. That would almost
be
| suicide. Most add some baking soda and other minerals to restore
the proper
| balance. The fish and plants need the electrolytes and minerals in
the
| water to survive. And with 0kh, your ph would have a tendency to
crash to
| fatal levels for most fish.
|


I see what you're saying. I, too, use some additives in the water,
first and foremost, the salt mix, which provides many electrolytes
and minerals, and is replenished via water changes. I, however, do
not use any WATER other than RO\DI, such as store-bought filtered
water, or tap water.

[Billy]

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
|
||
|
|
| I see what you're saying. I, too, use some additives in the water,
| first and foremost, the salt mix, which provides many electrolytes
| and minerals, and is replenished via water changes. I, however, do
| not use any WATER other than RO\DI, such as store-bought filtered
| water, or tap water.

See, I got stuck on marine again. <g> My fresh tanks as well, never
recieve anything other than RO, and I have never had any water issues
that weren't obviously caused by other things. (contamination, etc)

billy