What?? Odd Betta Behavior...

[thewes]

Hi everyone. I'm so happy because two of my three bettas survived a
total tank disaster. Because of low temperatures and low quality water
(i'm new to aquaria! im trying!) my three bettas got Ich, Fin Rot, Pop
Eye, and Dropsy and other external fungal infections (?)...basically
all at once. Essentially what saved two of the three fish was
PimaFix...this stuff is literally magic fish-saving, miracle-working
elixer in a bottle. So even though my two remaining bettas have very
little fin tissue left (sad huh?), they are active, getting their color
back, and even flaring at each other. I'm pretty happy. Sounds all good
right? Wrong. On of the bettas is acting real odd lately. I first
noticed him making a whole lot of noise under water, and when I looked
at him, he seemed fine. But it keeps happening. Final I caught most of
what is going on. It looks like this betta will surface for a breath,
and then on his way down...makes all this really loud and audible
clicking sort of sound. While clicking or whatever, a whole lot of air
bubbles come out of his mouth. It almost looks painful, but he acts
like it never happened after his episode. Has anyone ever witnessed
this bahavior before? Should I be super worried? Or is he just a quirky
little thing? Thanks for any advice/info!

[IDzine01]

That does not sound good. I have never heard of such a thing.
Is he surfacing for air more frequently then usual?

I wonder if his previous illness damaged his labyrinth organ. That, I
imagine, could be very dangerous.

If you suspect he is having problems breathing, consider adding an
air-stone to the tank if you don't already have one.
What are your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, gh, kh
and temperature now?

Also, while your bettas are healing, it is best to limit or stop all
interactivity between them. (i.e. the flaring) Give them a chance to
get healthy again before exposing them to stressors like other male
bettas.

[Mandy]

thewes wrote:
> Hi everyone. I'm so happy because two of my three bettas survived a
> total tank disaster. Because of low temperatures and low quality
water
> (i'm new to aquaria! im trying!) my three bettas got Ich, Fin Rot,
Pop
> Eye, and Dropsy and other external fungal infections (?)...basically
> all at once.

Geez I thought I was having a hard time...

Sorry for what you're going through but thanks for reminding me that a
case of ich is not the end of the world...

Good luck!

[thewes]

"Geez I thought I was having a hard time...

Sorry for what you're going through but thanks for reminding me that a
case of ich is not the end of the world... "

ich can be a pest though for sure. if you're not sure what to do about
it , i'd suggest Rid-Ich. It's a liquid treatment i picked up at Petco,
so i assume most pet places would have it maybe? but it's great, gets
rid of your ich problem real quick, after about 5-7 days of treatment,
even really bad cases can go away. Flame, my healthiest betta in the
tank right now, had the little white egg things all over his body, head
and fins...just covered- he's happy as can be though. Also, if you
raise the water temperature to 76-80 degrees F, it accelerates Ich life
cycles (i think?) and it is the most basic solution to Ich. Other than
Rid Ich , like i said before, that PimaFix stuff is really the best
thing i've ever used. It works fast, is all-natural solution, doesn't
harm plants, and get rid of most all fungal and even bacterial
infections (external and internal). Used together with MelaFix, it's
great on fish-heals them up real quick.

Oh and about Rambo (the betta making the odd clicking noise), he seems
pretty healthy. He isn't sulking at the bottom of the tank like he was
before, and acts pretty normal (flares occasionally, is pretty active
and swims around, begs for food, etc). I'm hoping his labyrinth organ
is fine, and it seems to be ok because he doesn't surface any more for
air than the betta next to him. The only thing ive noticed really is
that he has to use his pectoral (? -the most actively used ones closest
to his head?) fins much more than usual because his infections really
just took a huge tole on him, and the fins were quite deteriorated.
They are healing nicely though, and i hope that he'll be able to swim
with more ease in the future.

And oh right, the parameters of the tank. I'm embaressed to say that i
do not have a water quality test kit. But the last time i took a sample
of water to be tested at Petco, they said all the
conditions-Alkalinity, pH, kH, nitrate etc were perfect for a betta.
I've been using EasyBalance in the tank for a while and I assume that
is why the conditions have been so stable. The temperature of the water
at the bottom of the tank reads 74 degrees F. There is a light on top,
and i assume its a couple degrees warmer at the surface. That is where
they hang out for the most part, and Flame hides behind the heater on
his side, heh. But the troubled betta hasn't been doing the whole
clicking thing lately, or at least at all today. Thanks for the advice
though IDzine...i thought maybe it would be good for them to see some
company, but ill work on covering their divider with something solid.

[IDzine01]

Allowing them to flare at other bettas is fine so long as they're
healthy and they aren't always exposed to other males. Once they are
healed you could allow them to see one another for 10 or 15 mintues
throughout the day. It's really not a big deal.

Anyway, about those water test kits... Well you know what I'm going to
say.

You should get right on top of buying those. They are just about as
essential as having water in your betta tank. ;-) Testing needs to be
done at least weekly. Temperature should be checked everyday, pH every
few days or at least weekly and ammonia and nitrite regularly in an
uncycled tank. In an uncled tank nitrate needs to be checked weekly.

I wouldn't trust PetCo's idea of "perfect for a betta". They don't seem
to realize that 1ppm ammonia is SO NOT perfect. I would want to know my
exact readings. If your fish were sick with all those problems I would
bet my last dollar that the problem was water quality.

One more observation... a light isn't enough to keep a betta tank
temperature stable. 74=B0F is too cold and the difference between the
top and bottom could be as much as 2 - 4 degrees. That is way too big a
difference in a betta tank. That alone could have been enough to bring
on your Ich. I suggest getting a heater for your tank. Also, you can't
leave the light on all the time so what happens to your temperature at
night? You don't want to allow your temp to fluctuate more then 2=B0F in
24hours. I suspect yours is fluctuating much more then that.

I hope this helps a little. Sorry for the tough love... ;-)

[thewes]

Right, I'll get on that water test kit asap.

Also, I probably didn't explain very well, I'm sorry. I already do have
a heater that keeps the temperature at the bottom of the tank at 74ish.
And I'm assuming the light on the very top of the tank is adding a few
degrees to the surface.

Oh, another update on the odd behavior...I've noticed both fish are
doing this odd clicking thing. It looks like they are pushing air
through their gills and mouth, and the rush of air through water is
making a click/swish like sound. Pretty goofy...but they seem alright
other than that...

The other thing...do bettas..uhh.. yawn? hehe. I'll watch them and
occasionally it looks like they are slowly stretching their mouths-
Looks exactly how a mammal would yawn. I know they arn't actually
'yawning', but anyone know what they are doing?

[Lisa]

Hello - I keep my 2 male (divided) bettas in a 10-gallon, also. I have
my thermometer set at 79 degrees, with an UGF to keep things mixed
well, and they seem ecstatic. I was surprised at the difference a few
degrees made in their "swimminess" - they literally zoom all over the
tank now, and they seem much more alert and responsive. They will
flare on occasion, but are a lot more interested in eating and
swimming. I have a fluorescent tube for a light, so it may add a bit
of heat, but they still hang out mostly at the top. I also added some
silk floating plants (look like water lilies), and they both enjoy
swimming around these.

I do a 50% water change weekly. (The tank is only about 1 month old,
so I am still nervous about the cycling it.) I'll probably keep it up,
though, since they seem so active and healthy. I do also water test -
every 2 days or even daily for ammonia (I had some trace readings
earlier and want to stay on top of it), and every 3 days or so for pH.
The other levels weekly. I have about 2 tsp. of aquarium salt for
every 5 gallons of water, too. Their fins are really nice.

I also wouldn't trust Petco to test anything. I am sure they mean
well, but most of the staff I've met there doesn't really know what
they are talking about. I bought a "Master Test Kit" made by Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals. Petco also seems really quick to push medicines! I
hate the idea of dumping chemicals in my fish tank - those seem to do
far more harm than good, from reports that I have heard. (Unless it's
something specific and you REALLY know what you are doing - which I do
not.) Warm, super-clean, stable water is by far the best preventative
and cure for bettas!

Good luck with your little guys,
- Lisa

[Lisa]

Hello - I keep my 2 male (divided) bettas in a 10-gallon, also. I have
my thermometer set at 79 degrees, with an UGF to keep things mixed
well, and they seem ecstatic. I was surprised at the difference a few
degrees made in their "swimminess" - they literally zoom all over the
tank now, and they seem much more alert and responsive. They will
flare on occasion, but are a lot more interested in eating and
swimming. I have a fluorescent tube for a light, so it may add a bit
of heat, but they still hang out mostly at the top. I also added some
silk floating plants (look like water lilies), and they both enjoy
swimming around these.

I do a 50% water change weekly. (The tank is only about 1 month old,
so I am still nervous about the cycling it.) I'll probably keep it up,
though, since they seem so active and healthy. I do also water test -
every 2 days or even daily for ammonia (I had some trace readings
earlier and want to stay on top of it), and every 3 days or so for pH.
The other levels weekly. I have about 2 tsp. of aquarium salt for
every 5 gallons of water, too. Their fins are really nice.

I also wouldn't trust Petco to test anything. I am sure they mean
well, but most of the staff I've met there doesn't really know what
they are talking about. I bought a "Master Test Kit" made by Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals. Petco also seems really quick to push medicines! I
hate the idea of dumping chemicals in my fish tank - those seem to do
far more harm than good, from reports that I have heard. (Unless it's
something specific and you REALLY know what you are doing - which I do
not.) Warm, super-clean, stable water is by far the best preventative
and cure for bettas!

Good luck with your little guys,
- Lisa

[IDzine01]

I misunderstood about the heater. I didn't think you had one, sorry.
Still, I would turn it up a little each day until it reaches about 77-
78=B0F. An air-stone will help to stir the water up and keep it the same
throughout.

Yes, bettas do "yawn" from time to time. They also can "gasp" if they
are being exposed to nasties in the water like ammonia, nitrite or high
nitrates. I notice mine "yawn" maybe once a week or so. They probably
do it more, but I'm not always watching. If yours are doing it often,
it may be more of a gasp due to an inability to get dissolved oxygen
out of the water. This occurs when the gills have been burned by toxins
making it much harder for them to get the oxygen they need.

If there is some sort of damage to the labyrinth organ like we spoke
about before, this could hypothetically cause them to gasp too. This
clicking thing is very strange. Let us know the results of your water
tests. I would be concerned about this even if they're not showing
obvious signs of distress. Remember, animals will try to hide any signs
of injury for as long as they can so that they don't become targets to
predators. There could still be something wrong.

Continue to keep us updated Thewes, I'm really curious to know what's
going on with the clicking.

[thewes]

Hmm.

I hate to think that this is the case, but I think you may be right
about the Labyrinth organ being damaged. I've noticed now that both
bettas have been doing this odd 'clicking' thing where they push large
volume of air through their gills and mouth. The good news (oh no, i
sound like that crazy evangelist who keeps overloading the aquaria
forums with spam. anyone know who im talking about? heh) anyway the
good news is that they seem to be doing this less. It could very well
be a sort of gasp or choke, I mean, if fish could choke, this is what I
think it would look like.

I noticed something else when i moved the light on top; the different
angle of light revealed what looks like scars on the betta's gills.
They do not look inflamed or infected and they appear to be functioning
normally with ease. I remember they were definitely compromised during
the outbreak of all sort of diseases and hell in my tank. The gill and
possible labyrinth damage is probably linked, I just hope they heal
smoothly.

Next time i post ill have the water test results....by the way, thanks
so much for your help and wisdom thus far!

wes

[thewes]

Oh i forgot! I wouldn't be surprised if the supposed gasping is also
due to not enough dissolved oxygen in the water...i never thought about
it before...but there is probably very little dissolved oxygen due to
the higher temperatures.

For the most part, if they are stressed or still in bad shape, they
are doing a damn good job of hiding it. Cute story, I just noticed
tonight that the surface of the water in one half of the tank was
looking kinda stagnant and still, with some film and dust particles
collecting. So, i moved the filter over to this side of the tank, and
the elated betta started swimming and playing in the filter's water
outlet (right terminology?). I thought that was kinda cute...until i
thought he might be itching or something...well at least he looked like
he was having fun?