Get dead fish out or leave till spring?

[Mike C]

I took a peak under my pond cover and noticed 1 of my 6 Koi was dead.
It is laying at the bottom of the pond near where the other fish are.
Should I get it out or just leave it? I am a little concerned that
poking a net down there is going to really disturb the other Koi. Will
leaving the dead fish have a negative impact on the water quality (pond
is 500 gallons)? I am in Chicago and the water temp is around 40 now.

[Fishy]

Mike C wrote:
> I took a peak under my pond cover and noticed 1 of my 6 Koi was dead.
> It is laying at the bottom of the pond near where the other fish are.
> Should I get it out or just leave it? I am a little concerned that
> poking a net down there is going to really disturb the other Koi.
Will
> leaving the dead fish have a negative impact on the water quality
(pond
> is 500 gallons)? I am in Chicago and the water temp is around 40 now.

Get the fish out as soon as you can. Any disturbance to the remaining
fish will be minimal but the decomposition of a dead fish will create a
lot of bacterial and fungal growth and worsen the water quality.

[Andy Hill]

"Mike C" > wrote:
>I took a peak under my pond cover and noticed 1 of my 6 Koi was dead.
>It is laying at the bottom of the pond near where the other fish are.
>Should I get it out or just leave it? I am a little concerned that
>poking a net down there is going to really disturb the other Koi. Will
>leaving the dead fish have a negative impact on the water quality (pond
>is 500 gallons)? I am in Chicago and the water temp is around 40 now.
>
The net won't disturb them nearly as much as a rotting fish (and, yes, it'll
still rot at 40F...just slower than at 80F).

[Roy]

On 14 Feb 2005 09:38:50 -0800, "Mike C" >
wrote:

>===<>I took a peak under my pond cover and noticed 1 of my 6 Koi was dead.
>===<>It is laying at the bottom of the pond near where the other fish are.
>===<>Should I get it out or just leave it? I am a little concerned that
>===<>poking a net down there is going to really disturb the other Koi. Will
>===<>leaving the dead fish have a negative impact on the water quality (pond
>===<>is 500 gallons)? I am in Chicago and the water temp is around 40 now.


Are you for real...afraid to disturb the other fish and would even
think about leaving a dead fish there until conditions that suit you
are right before you remove it, which by then would be nothing but a
swirling mess of koi bones and scal;es and fungal growths and probably
a few more dead koi as well. Get in there remove the dead fish, and
don;t worry about disturbing the others, they will do just fine from
what disturbance you may make.

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Mike C]

Okay, I will get it out of there . However, don't act like leaving it
is absurd:

1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
disturb them even more.
2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.
3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
was a dead fish to remove.




Roy wrote:
> On 14 Feb 2005 09:38:50 -0800, "Mike C" >
> wrote:
>
> >===<>I took a peak under my pond cover and noticed 1 of my 6 Koi was
dead.
> >===<>It is laying at the bottom of the pond near where the other
fish are.
> >===<>Should I get it out or just leave it? I am a little concerned
that
> >===<>poking a net down there is going to really disturb the other
Koi. Will
> >===<>leaving the dead fish have a negative impact on the water
quality (pond
> >===<>is 500 gallons)? I am in Chicago and the water temp is around
40 now.
>
>
> Are you for real...afraid to disturb the other fish and would even
> think about leaving a dead fish there until conditions that suit you
> are right before you remove it, which by then would be nothing but a
> swirling mess of koi bones and scal;es and fungal growths and
probably
> a few more dead koi as well. Get in there remove the dead fish, and
> don;t worry about disturbing the others, they will do just fine from
> what disturbance you may make.
>
> REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
> Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired
from selling GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get
your fish at Dandy Orandas
> Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On 14 Feb 2005 14:43:38 -0800, "Mike C" > wrote:

>Okay, I will get it out of there . However, don't act like leaving it
>is absurd:

Ignore Roy, we do. ;-)

>1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
>so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
>disturb them even more.
>2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.

Yup, but that doesn't mean it is good for the rest of the living... and in
nature there would be critters still active at low temps to eat the dead
fish. Right now it is polluting your water quality, which isn't good when
you only have 500 gallons.

>3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
>was a dead fish to remove.

True, but you can't use that excuse cause you peeked. ;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Gale Pearce]

Well said, Jan - a little more info and fewer barbs - what this group needs
Gale :~)
>
> >Okay, I will get it out of there . However, don't act like leaving it
> >is absurd:
>
> Ignore Roy, we do. ;-)
>
> >1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
> >so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
> >disturb them even more.
> >2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.
>
> Yup, but that doesn't mean it is good for the rest of the living... and in
> nature there would be critters still active at low temps to eat the dead
> fish. Right now it is polluting your water quality, which isn't good when
> you only have 500 gallons.
>
> >3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
> >was a dead fish to remove.
>
> True, but you can't use that excuse cause you peeked. ;o) ~ jan
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Roy]

Bite my ass bitch............yea you Jan,. I never had a problem with
you that is up until now, so bite me! I now consider you open season
as well.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:00:23 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>===<>>On 14 Feb 2005 14:43:38 -0800, "Mike C" > wrote:
>===<>
>===<>>Okay, I will get it out of there . However, don't act like leaving it
>===<>>is absurd:
>===<>
>===<>Ignore Roy, we do. ;-)
>===<>
>===<>>1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
>===<>>so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
>===<>>disturb them even more.

There certainly is more than one way to skin a cat, or in this case
make a hole to retreive dead fish without pounding on the ice........
>===<>>2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.>===<>
>===<>Yup, but that doesn't mean it is good for the rest of the living... and in
>===<>nature there would be critters still active at low temps to eat the dead
>===<>fish. Right now it is polluting your water quality, which isn't good when
>===<>you only have 500 gallons.

Normally momma nature has a means of cleaning up her mess and also the
body of water is much larger than a back yard pond, and is not as
adversely affected.........plus there are also critters abound that
loves to dine on dead fish weather on the ice under the ice or alive
and in the water, so it would not last long in nature. A pond such as
yours is basically a container, when things rot, it has no place to
go, and being its such a small body of water it does not even fall in
the same catagory as a natural pond and a dead fish would be in.
>===<>
>===<>>3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
>===<>>was a dead fish to remove.
>===<>
>===<>True, but you can't use that excuse cause you peeked. ;o) ~ jan
>===<>

Yea you would when your ice melted and the rest of them were dead
too, then you would be posting what the hell killed my fish,
everyhting was perfect, I had it covered, I had air, I shut off my
pumps, I used SALT and every other conceiveable concept............


>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Snooze]

"Mike C" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Okay, I will get it out of there . However, don't act like leaving it
> is absurd:
>
> 1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
> so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
> disturb them even more.
> 2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.
> 3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
> was a dead fish to remove.
>

1) The reason you don't pound on the ice is that you create a large
shockwave across the ice, which translates into a large shockwave across the
pond.

2) Residential ponds are a fraction of the size of natural ponds. Natural
ponds that are the size of a residential pond, if they have fish, are
typically minnow size or smaller. You rarely see large koi sized fish in
such a pond, there just isn't enough food and water to maintain a self
sustaining population.

3) You do what you can, if the pond was completely covered over and you
didn't know about the dead fish, not much you can do about it.

Incidentally some folks here have said that filling a pot with hot water and
just setting it on the ice will melt a hole in the ice should the pond
freeze over.

Snooze

[Phisherman]

Definitely remove the dead fish. Remove any decaying matter too.

On 14 Feb 2005 09:38:50 -0800, "Mike C" >
wrote:

>I took a peak under my pond cover and noticed 1 of my 6 Koi was dead.
>It is laying at the bottom of the pond near where the other fish are.
>Should I get it out or just leave it? I am a little concerned that
>poking a net down there is going to really disturb the other Koi. Will
>leaving the dead fish have a negative impact on the water quality (pond
>is 500 gallons)? I am in Chicago and the water temp is around 40 now.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:17:58 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

>Bite my ass bitch............yea you Jan,. I never had a problem with
>you that is up until now, so bite me! I now consider you open season
>as well.
>
What? You missed the smiling winky face? It was for you, love. :o)
Happy Valentine's Day ~ jan
~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Dsybok]

"Mike C" > wrote in message

> 1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
> so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
> disturb them even more.
> 2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.
> 3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
> was a dead fish to remove.


Your pond is not "nature" , it is an enclosed, artificial environment. It
does not have the necessary water volume to absorb the amount of pollutants
that would collect should the surface be allowed to freeze over. It also
does not have enough volume to allow a permanent sheath of ice to form. Do a
search of this group for suggestions on ice formation, but you definitely
should be using a water agitator or heat source to prevent the pond from
completely freezing. A small hole to allow gas exchange is enough.

Or consider bringing your fish indoors, in a large enough tank to support
them, if your winters are harsh. When I lived in the Boston area I tanked my
goldfish and pond minnows in a 50G tank for the winter months. May not work
with Koi due to size.

Fish do die in nature . And something does "get them out" , other organisms,
fish, snails, etc. Your pond does not have a supply of these organisms
sufficient to decompose the body safely.

So you need to go get that fish outta there pronto. Its not doing your other
fish any good.

D

[Roy]

Well I view it as a sign of sarcasim or being catty. Use your little
symbols all you want, I'll put what I have to say in words, so there
is no possiblity of you or anyone else missing it or missinterpreting
it


On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:59:53 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>===<>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:17:58 GMT, (Roy) wrote:
>===<>
>===<>>Bite my ass bitch............yea you Jan,. I never had a problem with
>===<>>you that is up until now, so bite me! I now consider you open season
>===<>>as well.
>===<>>
>===<>What? You missed the smiling winky face? It was for you, love. :o)
>===<>Happy Valentine's Day ~ jan
>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[REBEL JOE]

Hey Roy add me to your list A-hole



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:30:39 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

>Well I view it as a sign of sarcasim or being catty.

Moi catty or sarcastic? I try not to go there on usenet (anymore).

>Use your little symbols all you want, I'll put what I have to say in words, so there
>is no possiblity of you or anyone else missing it or missinterpreting
>it

Okay.... so tell me how I can pull you leg and let you know, or would it
have been better to say <just kidding> would that have worked? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Andy Hill]

"Mike C" > wrote:
>1)I've read that if ice forms in the winter you shouldn't pound on it
>so you don't disturb the domant Koi. Certainly hitting with a new would
>disturb them even more.
>
Yup. Disturbing dormant koi == bad. Leaving dead koi in water == worse.
Such is triage.

>2) Fish die all the time in nature and nobody gets them out.
>
And if it happens in a small enough ecosystem, they *all* die. Most of the
ponds we deal with here are basically big aquariums, and w-a-a-a-y closer to the
carrying capacity limits of the ecosystem than your typical "natural" setup.
That means a lot more hand-holding on the part of the pondskeeper.

>3) If the pond was covered in snow/ice, you wouldn't even know there
>was a dead fish to remove.
>
Yup, and there'd be a pretty good chance all your koi would be sick or dead by
spring in that case. You got lucky.

[Roy]

You were among the very first I added to my asshole list Joe boy! You
among the top 3 or 4......
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:27:15 -0500, (REBEL JOE)
wrote:

>===<>Hey Roy add me to your list A-hole
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Mike C]

Okay- moot point. I got out my net, lifted the cover and went to remove
the dead fish and it swam away and hid after being touched byt he net.
I thought it was dead as it looked to be laying on its side and not
moving. Of course, it is hard to see down to the bottom with the glare
and stuff.

[Andy Hill]

"Mike C" > wrote:
>Okay- moot point. I got out my net, lifted the cover and went to remove
>the dead fish and it swam away and hid after being touched byt he net.
>I thought it was dead as it looked to be laying on its side and not
>moving. Of course, it is hard to see down to the bottom with the glare
>and stuff.
>
He wasn't dead? That means you DISTURBED THE KOI WITHOUT CAUSE!
OHNOOHNOOHNO...gotta breathe, breathe...where's my paper bag?....breathe.....

Whew.

Anyway, glad it worked out <grin>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On 15 Feb 2005 11:38:35 -0800, "Mike C" > wrote:

>Okay- moot point. I got out my net, lifted the cover and went to remove
>the dead fish and it swam away and hid after being touched byt he net.
>I thought it was dead as it looked to be laying on its side and not
>moving. Of course, it is hard to see down to the bottom with the glare
>and stuff.

In that case, the best dormant medication would be to bring the salt up to
0.3% over several days. Without a scrape, my guess is flukes.... only
because I had a fish do similar. The salt got mine thru winter, till I
found out Prazi could be added to cold water (but Prazi is expensive, it
can be a better choice over salt). When I lowered the salt in spring, the
fish started to go back on its side. I added the Prazi and in 24 hours it
was fine..... unfortunately several weeks later it developed terminal
dropsy, died in 3 days. :o( ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Roy]

Ain't no can be about it, Prazi is certainly better under all
conditions than SALT the super duper all around rec.ponds cure all.



On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:57:50 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>===<>On 15 Feb 2005 11:38:35 -0800, "Mike C" > wrote:
>===<>
>===<>>Okay- moot point. I got out my net, lifted the cover and went to remove
>===<>>the dead fish and it swam away and hid after being touched byt he net.
>===<>>I thought it was dead as it looked to be laying on its side and not
>===<>>moving. Of course, it is hard to see down to the bottom with the glare
>===<>>and stuff.
>===<>
>===<>In that case, the best dormant medication would be to bring the salt up to
>===<>0.3% over several days. Without a scrape, my guess is flukes.... only
>===<>because I had a fish do similar. The salt got mine thru winter, till I
>===<>found out Prazi could be added to cold water (but Prazi is expensive, it
>===<>can be a better choice over salt). When I lowered the salt in spring, the
>===<>fish started to go back on its side. I added the Prazi and in 24 hours it
>===<>was fine..... unfortunately several weeks later it developed terminal
>===<>dropsy, died in 3 days. :o( ~ jan
>===<>
>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[REBEL JOE]

I MADE ROYS LIST!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOO



http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

[Roy]

Shut the hell up or I will remove you form it. Right now your the
nucleus of the hole. If you want to stay there sit down and shut up,
or else I'll put BeIgnorant Vanilla Pudding back in that position.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:13:51 -0500, (REBEL JOE)
wrote:

>===<>I MADE ROYS LIST!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOO
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[~ Windsong ~]

"REBEL JOE" > wrote in message
...
> I MADE ROYS LIST!!!!!!! YAHOOOOOO
============================
ALRIGHT!!!! :-))))
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost
never want you to share yours with them."
Completely FREE software:
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