corkscrew fish?

[Oxymel of Squill]

I have a fish doing wild corkscrew movements around the pond and floating
upside down. Does anyone know what this is or what I can do about it?
TIA
Jon

[[email protected]]

Start by adding non-iodized salt to the water. Dissolve 1#/100 gallons
of water and add it gradually. Then go to AKCA-Koi USA to do some
research. It is possible you need to add oxygen to the water. Good luck.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:06:12 -0000, "Oxymel of Squill" >
wrote:

>I have a fish doing wild corkscrew movements around the pond and floating
>upside down. Does anyone know what this is or what I can do about it?
>TIA
>Jon
>
Google for Twirling Disease, but I think the only thing you can do if it is
bad is put it down. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>>I have a fish doing wild corkscrew movements around the pond and floating
>>upside down. Does anyone know what this is or what I can do about it?
>>TIA
>>Jon
>>
>Google for Twirling Disease, but I think the only thing you can do if it is
>bad is put it down. ~ jan

Sorry, it's Whirling Disease, go here:
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html or www.koivet.com
~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Roy]

Nothing like a blind diagnosis..or would that be a wild assed guess?

I am in awe yu did not suggest SALT

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:51:57 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>===<>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:06:12 -0000, "Oxymel of Squill" >
>===<>wrote:
>===<>
>===<>>I have a fish doing wild corkscrew movements around the pond and floating
>===<>>upside down. Does anyone know what this is or what I can do about it?
>===<>>TIA
>===<>>Jon
>===<>>
>===<>Google for Twirling Disease, but I think the only thing you can do if it is
>===<>bad is put it down. ~ jan
>===<>
>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Roy]

On 15 Feb 2005 14:44:53 -0800, wrote:

>===<>Start by adding non-iodized salt to the water. Dissolve 1#/100 gallons
>===<>of water and add it gradually. Then go to AKCA-Koi USA to do some
>===<>research. It is possible you need to add oxygen to the water. Good luck.

Yea, salt, thats what you need, SALT the miracle cure and secret
fixall of Rec.ponders...I would use at least 100# per gal and do it
right! At that rate it matters not if its iodized or kosher!


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Tom L. La Bron]

Roy,

already did suggest adding salt. Then in the same breath
talks about adding oxygen to the water, which is kind of silly because the
salt prevents the water from holding on to the oxygen. Seems like an
oxymoron of a technique to me. This time of the year it may not be to bad
depending on where Oxymel of Squill lives (UK I think), but in the Summer
time when warmed water holds even less oxygen adding salt can really cause
problems. And remember, the big fish always die first.

Tom L.L.
"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> Nothing like a blind diagnosis..or would that be a wild assed guess?
>
> I am in awe yu did not suggest SALT
>
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:51:57 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> > wrote:
>
>>===<>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:06:12 -0000, "Oxymel of Squill"
>
>>===<>wrote:
>>===<>
>>===<>>I have a fish doing wild corkscrew movements around the pond and
>>floating
>>===<>>upside down. Does anyone know what this is or what I can do about
>>it?
>>===<>>TIA
>>===<>>Jon
>>===<>>
>>===<>Google for Twirling Disease, but I think the only thing you can do if
>>it is
>>===<>bad is put it down. ~ jan
>>===<>
>>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~
>
>
> REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
> Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from
> selling GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired
> from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
> best for
> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your
> fish at Dandy Orandas
> Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Steve]

Good point Roy! How could anyone be so irresponsible as to offer an
answer to someone's questions without first asking the original poster
to FedEx the fish to them so they can evaluate the symptoms first
hand? Or maybe just putting the sick fish on the scanner and
attaching a picture to the post would be good enough.

OF COURSE IT IS A BLIND DIAGNOSIS!. It was a two sentence post on a
newsgroup. If they wanted a complete professional medical evaluation
they would have found a vet that will treat fish. But they didn't;
they posted a question here.

You must not be getting enough rest lately. Or maybe you were just in
a hurry. Either way, we all know you can flame better than that. So
get some rest and remember that if a post isn't worth flaming well,
it's not worth flaming at all.

Steve

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:55:26 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

>Nothing like a blind diagnosis..or would that be a wild assed guess?
>
>I am in awe yu did not suggest SALT
>
>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:51:57 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:
>
>>===<>On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:06:12 -0000, "Oxymel of Squill" >
>>===<>wrote:
>>===<>
>>===<>>I have a fish doing wild corkscrew movements around the pond and floating
>>===<>>upside down. Does anyone know what this is or what I can do about it?
>>===<>>TIA
>>===<>>Jon
>>===<>>
>>===<>Google for Twirling Disease, but I think the only thing you can do if it is
>>===<>bad is put it down. ~ jan
>>===<>
>>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~
>
>
>REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
>Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
>Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[RichToyBox]

Roy,

Read this link on Doc Johnson's web site,
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=94&category=17&search_term=salt
where he discusses salt. I think that before any treatments are performed,
a microscopic examination needs to be performed to best know what treatment
should be used. Many of the treatments are expensive, especially when
treating a whole pond.

My arsenal for treatments includes salt, anchors away (for anchor worm and
fish lice), and supa-verm (for flukes). I occasionally use PP, mainly to
clean the water of organics. PP and formalin are both neutralized by
organics in the pond, so it is difficult to know whether you have used the
correct dosage. Formalin also requires a 50% water change, which is time
consuming. Doc Johnson, and others have published symptoms that will help
identify the problem, and help in determining which remedy is best, with
salt always being first.

Of course one of the best means of controlling parasites is to maintain
pristine water. The fish have lived with parasites since the beginning of
time and as long as they are not stressed by poor water quality, they should
be able to live with a moderate number in the pond. The thing with
parasites is that they seem to know when a fish is stressed, attack it
harder, possibly killing it, and multiplying out of control, so that they
can overtake the other fish in the pond.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> On 15 Feb 2005 14:44:53 -0800, wrote:
>
>>===<>Start by adding non-iodized salt to the water. Dissolve 1#/100
>>gallons
>>===<>of water and add it gradually. Then go to AKCA-Koi USA to do some
>>===<>research. It is possible you need to add oxygen to the water. Good
>>luck.
>
> Yea, salt, thats what you need, SALT the miracle cure and secret
> fixall of Rec.ponders...I would use at least 100# per gal and do it
> right! At that rate it matters not if its iodized or kosher!
>
>
> REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
> Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from
> selling GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired
> from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
> best for
> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your
> fish at Dandy Orandas
> Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[Roy]

Yea Doc Johnsons approach is much the same as this group in a lot of
things,..........and of all folks to screw up royally and OD their
high dollar koi on PP ....he reallay needs to stick to salt and leave
opther chemicals to those that know a little more about them than he
evidently does..But its on the internet so it must be true.....but he
is an author of a few books, so he must know what he is
doing..........I personally wold trust Dr. Solo before Johnson.
Nothing is on his site that is not on many university fish biology
sites in different wording.......and they are an organization I would
put my faith in in stead of an internet fish doctor out to make a buck
and still screw up like he does..............

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:05:44 -0500, "RichToyBox"
> wrote:

>===<>Roy,
>===<>
>===<>Read this link on Doc Johnson's web site,
>===<>http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=94&category=17&search_term=salt
>===<>where he discusses salt. I think that before any treatments are performed,
>===<>a microscopic examination needs to be performed to best know what treatment
>===<>should be used. Many of the treatments are expensive, especially when
>===<>treating a whole pond.
>===<>
>===<>My arsenal for treatments includes salt, anchors away (for anchor worm and
>===<>fish lice), and supa-verm (for flukes). I occasionally use PP, mainly to
>===<>clean the water of organics. PP and formalin are both neutralized by
>===<>organics in the pond, so it is difficult to know whether you have used the
>===<>correct dosage. Formalin also requires a 50% water change, which is time
>===<>consuming. Doc Johnson, and others have published symptoms that will help
>===<>identify the problem, and help in determining which remedy is best, with
>===<>salt always being first.
>===<>
>===<>Of course one of the best means of controlling parasites is to maintain
>===<>pristine water. The fish have lived with parasites since the beginning of
>===<>time and as long as they are not stressed by poor water quality, they should
>===<>be able to live with a moderate number in the pond. The thing with
>===<>parasites is that they seem to know when a fish is stressed, attack it
>===<>harder, possibly killing it, and multiplying out of control, so that they
>===<>can overtake the other fish in the pond.


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[~ Windsong ~]

"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> Yea Doc Johnsons approach is much the same as this group in a lot of
> things,..........and of all folks to screw up royally and OD their
> high dollar koi on PP

$$ So I take it you have a problem with Dr. Johnson. I used PP on his
recommendation and cleaned up several problems without killing any fish.
Koizyme keeps the ulcers away. I can thank Johnson for saving my fish
several years ago.

.....he reallay needs to stick to salt and leave
> opther chemicals to those that know a little more about them than he
> evidently does..

$$ Like who?

But its on the internet so it must be true.....but he
> is an author of a few books, so he must know what he is
> doing..........

$$ He's saved many people's fish over the years, including mine. That
seems to bother you for some reason. Did he somehow misdiagnose *your* fish
problem?

I personally wold trust Dr. Solo before Johnson.

$$ Why, since she's not a licensed veterinarian?

> Nothing is on his site that is not on many university fish biology
> sites in different wording.......and they are an organization I would
> put my faith in in stead of an internet fish doctor out to make a buck
> and still screw up like he does..............


Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ Windsong ~]

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> Good point Roy! How could anyone be so irresponsible as to offer an
> answer to someone's questions without first asking the original poster
> to FedEx the fish to them so they can evaluate the symptoms first
> hand? Or maybe just putting the sick fish on the scanner and
> attaching a picture to the post would be good enough.

$$ Hey,... his friend makes diagnoses over the PHONE!!!! You can't beat
that with a stick.

> OF COURSE IT IS A BLIND DIAGNOSIS!. It was a two sentence post on a
> newsgroup. If they wanted a complete professional medical evaluation
> they would have found a vet that will treat fish. But they didn't;
> they posted a question here.

$$ Dandyorandas must be desperate for business........

> You must not be getting enough rest lately. Or maybe you were just in
> a hurry. Either way, we all know you can flame better than that. So
> get some rest and remember that if a post isn't worth flaming well,
> it's not worth flaming at all.
>
> Steve

$$ I think Roy needs a vacation from this NG.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[WJHenderson]

If your so concerned I need to get away on a vacation when can I
expect the check to cover same...........if no check is to follow, pay
attention to your own business and don't worry what I do or do not
need........

And how would my posting about Dandy Orandas, be interpreted to mean
they are desperate for business..Hell I don't know.....

Read it again

DANDY ORANDAS

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:30 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" <P@P> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Steve" > wrote in message
...
>===<>> Good point Roy! How could anyone be so irresponsible as to offer an
>===<>> answer to someone's questions without first asking the original poster
>===<>> to FedEx the fish to them so they can evaluate the symptoms first
>===<>> hand? Or maybe just putting the sick fish on the scanner and
>===<>> attaching a picture to the post would be good enough.
>===<>
>===<>$$ Hey,... his friend makes diagnoses over the PHONE!!!! You can't beat
>===<>that with a stick.
>===<>
>===<>> OF COURSE IT IS A BLIND DIAGNOSIS!. It was a two sentence post on a
>===<>> newsgroup. If they wanted a complete professional medical evaluation
>===<>> they would have found a vet that will treat fish. But they didn't;
>===<>> they posted a question here.
>===<>
>===<>$$ Dandyorandas must be desperate for business........
>===<>
>===<>> You must not be getting enough rest lately. Or maybe you were just in
>===<>> a hurry. Either way, we all know you can flame better than that. So
>===<>> get some rest and remember that if a post isn't worth flaming well,
>===<>> it's not worth flaming at all.
>===<>>
>===<>> Steve
>===<>
>===<>$$ I think Roy needs a vacation from this NG.


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[~ Windsong ~]

"WJHenderson" > wrote in message
...
> If your so concerned I need to get away on a vacation when can I
> expect the check to cover same...........if no check is to follow, pay
> attention to your own business and don't worry what I do or do not
> need........
>
> And how would my posting about Dandy Orandas, be interpreted to mean
> they are desperate for business..Hell I don't know.....
==========================
Because any business that would hire someone like you to SPAM Usenet has to
be *desperate* beyond belief. You can't be here wasting your time and ours
for "nothing."
--

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Mike Calhoun]

I can assure you for what its worth that I would not know Dr. Solo or
anyone associated from Dandy Orandas if they were to fall on
me.............so your wrong once again. I think they need to be
promoted so newbies have a viable source for info if needed......get
over it, its not going to go away unless Dr. Solo asks me to stop
using it.


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:13:40 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" <P@P> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"WJHenderson" > wrote in message
...
>===<>> If your so concerned I need to get away on a vacation when can I
>===<>> expect the check to cover same...........if no check is to follow, pay
>===<>> attention to your own business and don't worry what I do or do not
>===<>> need........
>===<>>
>===<>> And how would my posting about Dandy Orandas, be interpreted to mean
>===<>> they are desperate for business..Hell I don't know.....
>===<>==========================
>===<>Because any business that would hire someone like you to SPAM Usenet has to
>===<>be *desperate* beyond belief. You can't be here wasting your time and ours
>===<>for "nothing."


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[~ Windsong ~]

"Mike Calhoun" > wrote in message
...
>
> I can assure you for what its worth that I would not know Dr. Solo or
> anyone associated from Dandy Orandas if they were to fall on
> me.............so your wrong once again. I think they need to be
> promoted so newbies have a viable source for info if needed.

$$ What proof so YOU have that they're such a valuable source of
information?

......get
> over it, its not going to go away unless Dr. Solo asks me to stop
> using it.

$$ I couldn't care less what went away or what stayed - as long as the
Newbies know the TRUTH. And BTW,... don't break your back bending over
kissing her (_|_).
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Where the hell is Easy Street?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[AuthorAlexander]

And what you think really has very little if anything to do with it
now does it? Perhaps your jealous you can;t do such a good thing as
Dr. Solo or Dandy Orandas, and your time is better spent harrassing
the Jehovah bunch.. tsk tsk tsk carol, your a fine one to throw
stones....


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:35:40 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" <P@P> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Mike Calhoun" > wrote in message
...
>===<>>
>===<>> I can assure you for what its worth that I would not know Dr. Solo or
>===<>> anyone associated from Dandy Orandas if they were to fall on
>===<>> me.............so your wrong once again. I think they need to be
>===<>> promoted so newbies have a viable source for info if needed.
>===<>
>===<>$$ What proof so YOU have that they're such a valuable source of
>===<>information?
>===<>
>===<>.....get
>===<>> over it, its not going to go away unless Dr. Solo asks me to stop
>===<>> using it.
>===<>
>===<>$$ I couldn't care less what went away or what stayed - as long as the
>===<>Newbies know the TRUTH. And BTW,... don't break your back bending over
>===<>kissing her (_|_).


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Solo to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[~ Windsong ~]

"AuthorAlexander" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> And what you think really has very little if anything to do with it
> now does it? Perhaps your jealous you can;t do such a good thing as
> Dr. Solo or Dandy Orandas,

$$ A good thing like selling people charcoal that recharges with hose water?
Uh,... no thanks! :-)

and your time is better spent harrassing
> the Jehovah bunch.. tsk tsk tsk carol, your a fine one to throw
> stones....

## Why don't you INFEST that group and perhaps save a life? What are you
accomplishing HERE?

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost
never want you to share yours with them."
"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~