I feel bad

[miufg]

Feeding smaller fish to bigger fish. Is this wrong or is this an acceptable
practice, even if it's my fault for letting them breed in the first place.
I simply don't have any room for them.

[Justin Boucher]

Don't get discouraged by man's definition of humane treatement when trying
to replicate nature. Nature is much more vicious and unmerciful than we
often would admit.

Justin

"miufg" > wrote in message
...
> Feeding smaller fish to bigger fish. Is this wrong or is this an
acceptable
> practice, even if it's my fault for letting them breed in the first place.
> I simply don't have any room for them.
>
>
>

[IDzine01]

Aquarists do it all the time. Even when you DO intend to breed it is
necessary to cull some of the stock.

[Gill Passman]

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Aquarists do it all the time. Even when you DO intend to breed it is
> necessary to cull some of the stock.
>
When my first Platy gave birth in the main tank I was very excited but most
of the fry were eaten...in fact I believed they all had been. Then we
suddenly spotted a new fish that has now grown to around 1/2 " now and
totally holds his own - survival of the fittest I guess.

Like you, and I think most people, the fry being eaten by their bigger
companions can be distressing or at the very least cause a moral dilema -
after all we don't keep fish to see them die. The next batch were born in a
breeder tank which later had my son's Molly off-spring transferred to it as
well. The situation I have now is that I have around 20+ fry in a 5 gall
tank and what happens when they grow? My LFS will take them from me now but
I rather suspect just to sell on as feeder fish - so now my question is why
should someone-elses fish benefit?

Just this once, we are going to stick with growing our fry and try to find
them good homes. Practically speaking unless every wall in the house fills
with tanks of Mollies and Platys we can never keep all of them. In future,
they take their chances in the tank - after all at least one survived this
way and if he can cope with life in the big, bad tank he must be
healthy...others might survive and at least they will be strong. Nature is
very cruel....All we can do is the best for our fish. Another consideration
with keeping the fry is the probability of inbreeding which will eventually
result in weakened stock - especially with Live Bearers who it appears to me
will breed at the drop of a hat.

Gill

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >, "Gill Passman"
<gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> says...
> When my first Platy gave birth in the main tank I was very excited but most
> of the fry were eaten...in fact I believed they all had been. Then we
> suddenly spotted a new fish that has now grown to around 1/2 " now and
> totally holds his own - survival of the fittest I guess.
>
I recently had the same experience. Initially about 20 fry that all
disappeared. Then a week or two ago we noticed 2 still around. One
about 1/4" and looking pretty healthy, the other a little smaller and
frailer looking. It's wait and see time now :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Elaine T]

miufg wrote:
> Feeding smaller fish to bigger fish. Is this wrong or is this an acceptable
> practice, even if it's my fault for letting them breed in the first place.
> I simply don't have any room for them.
>
>
Funny how many people spay/neuter mammalian pets to avoid killing or
finding homes for kittens or puppies but how few worry about killing
fish fry.

If it feels wrong to you, it's wrong. I generally don't set up breeding
situations unless I intend to raise the fry. I simply keep only one sex
of livebearer at once and keep cichlids who are likely to breed and
successfully hatch their eggs as solo fish (unless I can sex them to get
one gender). Besides, all hell breaks loose in a previously peaceful
community aquarium when cichlids decide to breed so there's some common
sense here as well.

You could probably take either your males or females and fry to LFS.

BTW, I mean no criticism to those who use feeder fish or have posted
that nature is cruel. This is very true and my post reflects only my
opinion. The key is to find ones own personal level of comfort.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Justin Boucher]

"The key is to find ones own personal level of comfort."

Very True...
This is supposed to be a hobby. (defined as something done for enjoyment
that competes as the largest financial sinkhole the budget can afford.)

Justin


"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> miufg wrote:
> > Feeding smaller fish to bigger fish. Is this wrong or is this an
acceptable
> > practice, even if it's my fault for letting them breed in the first
place.
> > I simply don't have any room for them.
> >
> >
> Funny how many people spay/neuter mammalian pets to avoid killing or
> finding homes for kittens or puppies but how few worry about killing
> fish fry.
>
> If it feels wrong to you, it's wrong. I generally don't set up breeding
> situations unless I intend to raise the fry. I simply keep only one sex
> of livebearer at once and keep cichlids who are likely to breed and
> successfully hatch their eggs as solo fish (unless I can sex them to get
> one gender). Besides, all hell breaks loose in a previously peaceful
> community aquarium when cichlids decide to breed so there's some common
> sense here as well.
>
> You could probably take either your males or females and fry to LFS.
>
> BTW, I mean no criticism to those who use feeder fish or have posted
> that nature is cruel. This is very true and my post reflects only my
> opinion. The key is to find ones own personal level of comfort.
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>

[Lisa]

It's especially difficult explaining this to a 6-year-old and an
8-year-old. "The big fish - even the parents - eat the babies. . . "
Although I know that it's a natural thing for fish, and it doesn't
bother me personally (free live food!), I nonetheless changed the guppy
tank to a unisex tank to stop the kids getting upset. Sigh. But I am
glad of their sensitivity. :-)

- Lisa in Central Coast CA

[John >]

"miufg" > wrote in message
...
> Feeding smaller fish to bigger fish. Is this wrong or is this an
> acceptable
> practice, even if it's my fault for letting them breed in the first place.
> I simply don't have any room for them.
>
You should not feel bad, you are observing nature in action.

I sell literally several million bait and feeder fish each year, and they
all get ate.

JOhn ><>

[Tedd Jacobs]

"miufg" wrote...
> Feeding smaller fish to bigger fish. Is this wrong or is this an
> acceptable
> practice, even if it's my fault for letting them breed in the first place.
> I simply don't have any room for them.

i have in the past bred platties for the sole purpose of feeding the fry to
my angels and tiger barbs. it is a decission that only you can decide if it
is right or wrong.

[Tynk]

It's not difficult at all, IF you taught the child/children about life
and death all along.
I've taught both my kids the circle of life from when they're were
small...and usually with fish deaths, or births.
If you teach when they're young about life and that Mother Nature isn't
always pretty, etc...then they learn to face the bigger deaths, such as
a relative, a beloved pet, etc., much better and also have a better
understanding of it all.

[Tynk]

It's not difficult at all, IF you taught the child/children about life
and death all along.
I've taught both my kids the circle of life from when they're were
small...and usually with fish deaths, or births.
If you teach when they're young about life and that Mother Nature isn't
always pretty, etc...then they learn to face the bigger deaths, such as
a relative, a beloved pet, etc., much better and also have a better
understanding of it all.

[Tynk]

Sorry for the double posting. I haven't a clue as to why this happened.
= /

[Lisa]

Understood, and I agree to a point. But it can be unsettling to some
to lift out the "babies" and deliberately place them in another tank to
get eaten. It's not so much that we're replicating a natural
phenomenon (after all, fry in the wild at least have some chance).
It's more like slaughtering a calf (yourself) that you've raised from a
newborn by hand (yes, I grew up on a farm! <g>). While such things are
done frequently, not everyone is comfortable with it, as the OP
indicated.

We've never avoided the life cycle/nature of death in raising our
children, either. Aquariums have some value in that respect. OTOH, I
also didn't want to squelch their natural sympathy for the weak or
defenseless. It's a very human and valuable thing. So, we simplified
the situation with a unisex guppy tank - at least for now. Different
strokes.

- Lisa

[John D. Goulden]

One of Darwin's key observations is that far more young are born than can
possibly survive to adulthood. In nature, most baby fish become someone
else's dinner.

--
John Goulden

[[email protected]]

I must have given 60 or so fancy guppies to 2 lfss I have bred and
raised over the last year or so! I have not had any problems with over
crowding because I have routinely given new fish to the lfss. I ought
to charge for them now don't you think (being a little fececious)?

[Elaine T]

wrote:
> I must have given 60 or so fancy guppies to 2 lfss I have bred and
> raised over the last year or so! I have not had any problems with over
> crowding because I have routinely given new fish to the lfss. I ought
> to charge for them now don't you think (being a little fececious)?
>
Yes, charge them! Most LFS will give some store credit for fancy
guppies if you bring in a large batch of healthy ones with good color.
Locally raised guppies are generally more valuable to LFS than the
sickly Singapore ones. You should certainly ask. Around here it's
generally 1/3 of what they would resell the fish for.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[[email protected]]

Beautiful - thanks Elain! I will look into charging for the fish and
getting a store credit, that would help me out financially and I can do
more with my fish hobby. Cool!

[Elaine T]

wrote:
> Beautiful - thanks Elain! I will look into charging for the fish and
> getting a store credit, that would help me out financially and I can do
> more with my fish hobby. Cool!
>
A few tips for trading fish and plants for store credit:

- Do your research. If you have guppies, know ahead of time what small
ones and large ones sell for at that store. Also know what quality your
guppies are. I've seen anywhere from $0.99 each for small Singapore
males with raggedy tails to $4.99 each for big, locally raised fish from
well-defined strains with gorgeous finnage.

- Try to bring enough fish or plants to make it worth the store's time
acclimating and handling your fish. You'll get a better reception and
possibly more credit with maybe 10 fish or a half-dozen bunches of
plants than one or two.

- Bring only perfectly healthy fish and algae-free plants. Fish should
be starting to mature and show color.

- Call ahead so the store knows you're expecting store credit for your
fish and if your first choice store turns you down, or offers too
little, try others.

- You may need to make time to bring in your fish during the week when
the store is not busy and usually handles new fish.

- If your fish are truly spectacular, you may be able to sell them for
cash instead of store credit. Consider asking for cash if you have
something special like 20 big, fully finned guppies which look better
than any other guppies in the store.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

>- If your fish are truly spectacular, you may be able to sell them for
>cash instead of store credit. Consider asking for cash if you have
>something special like 20 big, fully finned guppies which look better
>than any other guppies in the store.

From time to time I'll take a bunch of Endlers to the local
fish store. Now, I've taken excess fish and plants to stores
for decades and I know: 1) they don't give you much 2) you
only ever get store credit. The local fish store is part of
a big chain and it's not bad; it's staffed by nice helpful and
friendly people who seem to enjoytheir job immensly.

Soemtime last fall I took a bunch in. I needed a pump for on
of my kids tanks.

They could not give me store credit. Their new computer system
has no way of letting them do this. I pleaded with them "cash
is no good, my wife will spend it on milk or food orsomething useless
PLEASE give me store credit". Can't do it.

YMMV.


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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>- If your fish are truly spectacular, you may be able to sell them for
>>cash instead of store credit. Consider asking for cash if you have
>>something special like 20 big, fully finned guppies which look better
>>than any other guppies in the store.
>
>
> From time to time I'll take a bunch of Endlers to the local
> fish store. Now, I've taken excess fish and plants to stores
> for decades and I know: 1) they don't give you much 2) you
> only ever get store credit. The local fish store is part of
> a big chain and it's not bad; it's staffed by nice helpful and
> friendly people who seem to enjoytheir job immensly.
>
> Soemtime last fall I took a bunch in. I needed a pump for on
> of my kids tanks.
>
> They could not give me store credit. Their new computer system
> has no way of letting them do this. I pleaded with them "cash
> is no good, my wife will spend it on milk or food orsomething useless
> PLEASE give me store credit". Can't do it.
>
> YMMV.
>
>
LOL! The one time I got cash was when I brought in over 20 S. ahli
large enough for the males to show color. I knew damn well they were
bigger and healthier than what that store usually got and so did the
owner. ;-)

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the tips!