Arag-Alive Reef Sand & Malawi Cichlids?

[Kay-Bee]

Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in the
near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.

Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by mistake
(not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at practically
twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).

This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this partiular
marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums and packed in
water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids (specifically for the
aforementioned species)?

kaybee

[Sokar]

Arag-Alive Indo-Pacific Black Sand is not compatable with an African cichlid
tank. The bags contains marine bacteria, not the beneficial freshwater
bacteria that you need for a African-lake tank setup. Give up the $27 dollar
bags in exchange for the $16 bags.


"Kay-Bee" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
> Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in
> the near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.
>
> Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
> aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by
> mistake (not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at
> practically twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).
>
> This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this
> partiular marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums
> and packed in water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids
> (specifically for the aforementioned species)?
>
> kaybee
>
>
>

[Jim Anderson]

In article t>,
says...
> Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
> Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in the
> near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.
>
> Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
> aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by mistake
> (not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at practically
> twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).
>
> This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this partiular
> marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums and packed in
> water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids (specifically for the
> aforementioned species)?
>
> kaybee
>
>
>
>

Marine live sand contains lots of tiny crustaceans, worms and other
creatures that will die-off in fresh water, giving you a huge ammonia
spike, and very stinky water.

--
Hope this helps.
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger

[~Roy]

Wrong stuff......Arag Alive is meant for a alk type tank, and IIRC
don;t ciclids prefer acidic range? All the benefical bacteria will die
in freshwater, and make cycling the tank a long time affair. It would
also probably buffer your water to much to get correct ph
levels.......

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:08:51 GMT, "Kay-Bee" >
wrote:

>===<>Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
>===<>Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in the
>===<>near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.
>===<>
>===<>Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
>===<>aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by mistake
>===<>(not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at practically
>===<>twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).
>===<>
>===<>This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this partiular
>===<>marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums and packed in
>===<>water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids (specifically for the
>===<>aforementioned species)?
>===<>
>===<>kaybee
>===<>
>===<>


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

~Roy wrote:
>
> Wrong stuff......Arag Alive is meant for a alk type tank, and IIRC
> don;t ciclids prefer acidic range? All the benefical bacteria will die
> in freshwater, and make cycling the tank a long time affair. It would
> also probably buffer your water to much to get correct ph
> levels.......
>
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:08:51 GMT, "Kay-Bee" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>===<>Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
>>===<>Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in the
>>===<>near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.
>>===<>
>>===<>Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
>>===<>aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by mistake
>>===<>(not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at practically
>>===<>twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).
>>===<>
>>===<>This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this partiular
>>===<>marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums and packed in
>>===<>water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids (specifically for the
>>===<>aforementioned species)?
>>===<>
>>===<>kaybee
>>===<>
>>===<>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
> "The original frugal ponder"
> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

Hi Roy,

FYI Malawi cichlids prefer hard, alkaline water - main reason I went for
these rather than SA cichlids. My Malawi tank has Ocean Rock along with
a substrate that is a mix of coral sand and tropical marine sand - pH is
around 8 - haven't got round to measuring the hardness yet. Tank has
been up and running 9 months and is overrun with baby Mbunas :-)

Gill

[~roy]

Thanks for enlightening me n cichlids. All I have read wa they
prefered acidic side.........I tried to use some live rock in a fW
setup0 one itme and it took forever to "boil" the lr free of
organisims so parameters would be low enough to put fish in tank and
never got it close......Also did the same with LS with results just
like the rock.......what method of cycling your marine live rock and
sand did you use. i have some nice lr I would like to place in a FW
setup, thats just air dry and in the sun since I have no room in any
of my sal****er tanks for it now.



On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:58:05 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>===<>~Roy wrote:
>===<>>
>===<>> Wrong stuff......Arag Alive is meant for a alk type tank, and IIRC
>===<>> don;t ciclids prefer acidic range? All the benefical bacteria will die
>===<>> in freshwater, and make cycling the tank a long time affair. It would
>===<>> also probably buffer your water to much to get correct ph
>===<>> levels.......
>===<>>
>===<>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:08:51 GMT, "Kay-Bee" >
>===<>> wrote:
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>>>===<>Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
>===<>>>===<>Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in the
>===<>>>===<>near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.
>===<>>>===<>
>===<>>>===<>Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
>===<>>>===<>aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by mistake
>===<>>>===<>(not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at practically
>===<>>>===<>twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).
>===<>>>===<>
>===<>>>===<>This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this partiular
>===<>>>===<>marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums and packed in
>===<>>>===<>water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids (specifically for the
>===<>>>===<>aforementioned species)?
>===<>>>===<>
>===<>>>===<>kaybee
>===<>>>===<>
>===<>>>===<>
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>> ==============================================
>===<>> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>===<>> "The original frugal ponder"
>===<>> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
>===<>
>===<>Hi Roy,
>===<>
>===<>FYI Malawi cichlids prefer hard, alkaline water - main reason I went for
>===<>these rather than SA cichlids. My Malawi tank has Ocean Rock along with
>===<>a substrate that is a mix of coral sand and tropical marine sand - pH is
>===<>around 8 - haven't got round to measuring the hardness yet. Tank has
>===<>been up and running 9 months and is overrun with baby Mbunas :-)
>===<>
>===<>Gill


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

~roy wrote:
> Thanks for enlightening me n cichlids. All I have read wa they
> prefered acidic side.........I tried to use some live rock in a fW
> setup0 one itme and it took forever to "boil" the lr free of
> organisims so parameters would be low enough to put fish in tank and
> never got it close......Also did the same with LS with results just
> like the rock.......what method of cycling your marine live rock and
> sand did you use. i have some nice lr I would like to place in a FW
> setup, thats just air dry and in the sun since I have no room in any
> of my sal****er tanks for it now.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:58:05 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>===<>~Roy wrote:
>>===<>>
>>===<>> Wrong stuff......Arag Alive is meant for a alk type tank, and IIRC
>>===<>> don;t ciclids prefer acidic range? All the benefical bacteria will die
>>===<>> in freshwater, and make cycling the tank a long time affair. It would
>>===<>> also probably buffer your water to much to get correct ph
>>===<>> levels.......
>>===<>>
>>===<>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:08:51 GMT, "Kay-Bee" >
>>===<>> wrote:
>>===<>>
>>===<>>
>>===<>>>===<>Recently ordered several 20lbs bags of Eco-Complete African Cichlid
>>===<>>>===<>Substrate (the sand variety) ...I'll be setting up a 125-gallon tank in the
>>===<>>>===<>near future for Yellow Lab, Acei and Socolofi.
>>===<>>>===<>
>>===<>>>===<>Well, they seemingly sent me CaribSea's Indo-Pacific black Arag-Alive
>>===<>>>===<>aragonite reef sand ("with natural and selected marine bacteria") by mistake
>>===<>>>===<>(not sure if it was an intentional substitute as it's sold at practically
>>===<>>>===<>twice the price of the Eco-complete in their catalog).
>>===<>>>===<>
>>===<>>>===<>This is my first time using sand as a substrate. Any idea if this partiular
>>===<>>>===<>marine sand (apparently intended for marine and reef aquariums and packed in
>>===<>>>===<>water) will be compatible with Malawi lake cichlids (specifically for the
>>===<>>>===<>aforementioned species)?
>>===<>>>===<>
>>===<>>>===<>kaybee
>>===<>>>===<>
>>===<>>>===<>
>>===<>>
>>===<>>
>>===<>>
>>===<>> ==============================================
>>===<>> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>>===<>> "The original frugal ponder"
>>===<>> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
>>===<>
>>===<>Hi Roy,
>>===<>
>>===<>FYI Malawi cichlids prefer hard, alkaline water - main reason I went for
>>===<>these rather than SA cichlids. My Malawi tank has Ocean Rock along with
>>===<>a substrate that is a mix of coral sand and tropical marine sand - pH is
>>===<>around 8 - haven't got round to measuring the hardness yet. Tank has
>>===<>been up and running 9 months and is overrun with baby Mbunas :-)
>>===<>
>>===<>Gill
>
>
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
> "The original frugal ponder"
> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>


The rock was already dried out when I bought it so organisms weren't an
issue - although washing the dust off of 35Kilos was - lol. I did a dry
run on cave building so that I wasn't messing around too much when the
water got in. On the advice of my LFS (who have a similar set up in one
of their display tanks) I didn't add the substrate until I was happy
with the rocks. Maybe, foolishly, I didn't stick anything together -
actually this works quite well when cleaning or re-arranging the rocks
to sort territorial bickering. I filled the tank with water and left it
running for a week or so and then bought the first fish and seeded the
filter with a sponge from another tank and a stocking full of gravel. I
had to build up the stock quite quickly because of the nature of Mbunas
so there was lots of water testing going on - I think I only registered
0.1 nitrite during the whole process and never saw any ammonia.

The nice thing about using the ocean rock is the number of cavities
within it and the way that larger caves and crevices are created without
much effort when stacking it. The fish lodge themselves into places I'd
never imagined when I set up the tank. I have quite a high fry survival
rate which I'm sure is down to the number of very small pockets in the
rocks.

As the tank has matured the rocks have a very attractive covering of
algae although I do get very vivid bluey/green algae carpets from time
to time - pretty sure this is because plants aren't really an option in
the tank....I'm trying again and have put in 2 Anubias and some floating
lettuce.

The tank itself is a 4 foot, 47.5UK gall. I have a Fluval 304 and a 4
Plus running on it. There are 10 adult Mbunas, 2 OB Peacocks and one
Plec in there along with copious juvs and fry all at different stages of
development. Interesting fish to keep but sometimes a little too violent
for my liking - we have had a number of murders in there :-(

In terms of cichlids the Malawis are happy with the hard water/high pH
but you are quite right about the more acidic conditions for other
cichlids - I have had a few attempts at keeping Dutch Rams in my water
and these have mainly ended in failure (currently have one that is the
sole survivor of 3 that I bought a few weeks ago). I guess the answer,
as ever, is always to research the fish and the optimum environment
before going out and buying them - easily said, I know, but we all
impulse buy from time to time :-) - I actually opted for the Malawis
because I didn't feel I could spend the necessary time for a marine set up.

Hope this helps.

Gill