Touching fish

[humBill]

I have two blood parrots which can be very sociable at times. If I put my
finger in the tank they will sometimes nibble at it, even though I think
they have figured out it isnt food. Not as often, but sometimes they will
swim by my finger allow me to gently touch/stroke their backs. It is really
very exciting since they were very shy for so long. My question though- are
there any detriments to touching your fish - slime coat damage, etc.
Thanxx
Bill

[MarAzul]

From what I was told by a fish expert at a lecture, it's not really
recommended, but as long as your fingers/hands are wet, it's not as bad.

...and I have parrots who do that ALL the time.. But I also handfeed tham
occasionally..

Mar
---------
Vet Tech student

"humBill" > wrote in message
om...
>I have two blood parrots which can be very sociable at times. If I put my
>finger in the tank they will sometimes nibble at it, even though I think
>they have figured out it isnt food. Not as often, but sometimes they will
>swim by my finger allow me to gently touch/stroke their backs. It is
>really very exciting since they were very shy for so long. My question
>though- are there any detriments to touching your fish - slime coat damage,
>etc.
> Thanxx
> Bill
>
>

[Ozdude]

"MarAzul" > wrote in message
news:1o2Vd.36816$Tt.23103@fed1read05...
> From what I was told by a fish expert at a lecture, it's not really
> recommended, but as long as your fingers/hands are wet, it's not as bad.
>
> ..and I have parrots who do that ALL the time.. But I also handfeed tham
> occasionally..

I'd say don't touch them if you can avoid it. Every fish I've touched or has
swam into my hand has expired.

I'm convinced that apart from pathogens on your skin (washed hands or not,
soap residue and sweat or not) infest the skin of the fish. I am also sure
that human skin is somewhat abrasive and wipes part of the slime coat off.

I had a Gourami once that loved swimming into my hand - one day he did it,
then next day he died. Same goes for my two Paradise Fish - both swam into
my hand for a "cuddle" and died shortly there after.

Advice from every LFS I visit is try not to handle them at all and if I do -
to do a small water change immediately with a slime coat improver in the
replacement water (salt will do for some species).

I think pecking your fingers may be okay but not holding/cradling them in
yor palm.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Elaine T]

Ozdude wrote:
> "MarAzul" > wrote in message
> news:1o2Vd.36816$Tt.23103@fed1read05...
>
>>From what I was told by a fish expert at a lecture, it's not really
>>recommended, but as long as your fingers/hands are wet, it's not as bad.
>>
>>..and I have parrots who do that ALL the time.. But I also handfeed tham
>>occasionally..
>
>
> I'd say don't touch them if you can avoid it. Every fish I've touched or has
> swam into my hand has expired.
>
> I'm convinced that apart from pathogens on your skin (washed hands or not,
> soap residue and sweat or not) infest the skin of the fish. I am also sure
> that human skin is somewhat abrasive and wipes part of the slime coat off.
>
> I had a Gourami once that loved swimming into my hand - one day he did it,
> then next day he died. Same goes for my two Paradise Fish - both swam into
> my hand for a "cuddle" and died shortly there after.
>
> Advice from every LFS I visit is try not to handle them at all and if I do -
> to do a small water change immediately with a slime coat improver in the
> replacement water (salt will do for some species).
>
> I think pecking your fingers may be okay but not holding/cradling them in
> yor palm.
>
> Oz
>
I've never had a problem touching fish with wet hands and/or a net. I
used to catch battered Tanganyikan cichlids and dab mercurichrome on
their wounds to keep them from getting infected. Never lost any of them.

I wonder if your "cuddly" fish are ill.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[MarAzul]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "MarAzul" > wrote in message
> news:1o2Vd.36816$Tt.23103@fed1read05...
> I'd say don't touch them if you can avoid it. Every fish I've touched or
> has swam into my hand has expired.
>

Wow... tough luck for you. All the fish that I've touched are a few years
old and at least four inches long now.

Mar
---------
Vet Tech student

[Ozdude]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...

> I've never had a problem touching fish with wet hands and/or a net. I
> used to catch battered Tanganyikan cichlids and dab mercurichrome on their
> wounds to keep them from getting infected. Never lost any of them.
>
> I wonder if your "cuddly" fish are ill.

Could have been. Ammonia if anything. I do know the tank the Paradise Fish
were in (my first tank - 5 Gal Acrylic) wasn't cycled (ignorance of a
newbie) and was probably in the ammonia high range because I think I only
changed the water once before they died - how far I've come since those days
(About 6 months ago).

I bought a new gravel vac today and the amount of mulm and detritus that
came off the gravel in my main tank was just amazing. It gave cause to me
thinking that my "Sad Day" issue is, after all, ammonia; effectively OTS -
filthy toxic gravel

I've thoroughly vacuumed the gravel of all of it's rubbish (tons and tons of
droppings, bit's of old pellet food and mushy plant bits) with this new vac
and then did a 50% water change. I bought some new water conditioner today
which deals with ammonia, so I used that for the replacement water.

The tank seems so much happier now and I'm sort of really suspicious that
the whole deal was caused by the gravel and elevating ammonia after all of
that. It seems that TDS wasn't the issue I thought it was. I've lost 50% of
my Neons now, but I expected them to go with in a month any way, as I'm not
a big fan of mass bred neons (ours here come from Asia - usually Singapore,
Thailand or Malaysia) and I was worried they'd be weaker than the average
right from the start and that appears so.

Cardinals are looking more attractive and always have been - it's the price
of them that prevents me getting some.

I tested for ammonia about 6 hours after the 50% change and it's 0 again.
Nitrates have gone to 0 as well after a month or so of being elevated. pH
and hardness were both quite close to where they have settled, even with 50%
water changed out - that CO2 seems to have a pretty quick effect.

I was wondering why the plants weren't absorbing these substances - now I
think I know why - there was just too much - it was out of balance.

So much for the snail too! I thought Mystery Snails were supposed to dine on
this stuff? ;)

I've cut feeding back to 50% and shall continue with that for the rest of
this week until I'm satisfied the Ammonia isn't an issue any longer. There
are sure going to be some ravenous tetras in a few days time ;)

I am beside myself at how much stuff was in the gravel and how little of it
my old vac was picking up. The strange thing is that the substrate looked
fine and clean to the eye both from the front and from above. You just can't
tell sometimes it seems.

So I guess a decent gravel cleaner is a very wise investment after this
revelation.

Anyway I like the new Gravel Vac - it's 22" long, with a 1M hose, it's self
starting, has a proper filter for particulates and it's got quite amazing
suction.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith


>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Ozdude]

"MarAzul" > wrote in message
news:58bVd.36910$Tt.28780@fed1read05...
>
> "Ozdude" > wrote in message
> u...
>>
>> "MarAzul" > wrote in message
>> news:1o2Vd.36816$Tt.23103@fed1read05...
>> I'd say don't touch them if you can avoid it. Every fish I've touched or
>> has swam into my hand has expired.
>>
>
> Wow... tough luck for you. All the fish that I've touched are a few years
> old and at least four inches long now.

I haven't touched one in a while I might add. This was when I started and
through ignorance weakened my fish I think.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[MarAzul]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
u...
> I haven't touched one in a while I might add. This was when I started and
> through ignorance weakened my fish I think.
>
> Oz



Ahh... I gotcha.. That is very possible. When I first started (I was young)
I was practically a serial killer no matter what I did. :( Now I rarely
loose fish.. (knock on wood) I've heard that some fish are more..
'vulerable', I guess. That maybe their slime coat isn't as durable as, say,
a cichlids. *shrug*


Mar
---------
Vet Tech student

[NetMax]

"humBill" > wrote in message
om...
>I have two blood parrots which can be very sociable at times. If I put
>my finger in the tank they will sometimes nibble at it, even though I
>think they have figured out it isnt food. Not as often, but sometimes
>they will swim by my finger allow me to gently touch/stroke their backs.
>It is really very exciting since they were very shy for so long. My
>question though- are there any detriments to touching your fish - slime
>coat damage, etc.
> Thanxx
> Bill


For you, don't do it if you have cuts on your hands. For them, the
portion of your hands contacting them must be wet. Otherwise, I don't
see a problem as it isn't something you do constantly, like a petting
zoo. When it comes to moving fish, my experience is that hands can be
better than nets, but I wouldn't advise people to do it, as it takes some
practice. Non contact transport is really the best (i.e.: pails), but
I'm straying from your question ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Tynk]

I have handled my Bettas from 2-3 months of age, on up to near 6 yrs of
age...never once has anything bad happened because they came in contact
with my hand/skin.
As long as your hands are freshly washed, rinsed very well...no lotion,
perfume, etc on them either....and they are wet, your fihs will be
fine.
The trouble fish run into is when dry hands touch them and scrape off
the slime coat, hence the reason for wetting hands is a must.
Also, they run into trouble when handled too rough or against their
will.
Most of my fish come right to my hands. They are not afraid in the
least of my entire arm being in the tank. Actually, they can be big
pests when I'm trying to do some cleaning.
I've had several male Bettas that prefered to be touched along their
sides..kind of like petting, but just one swipe and then they'd swim
along and come back again. Some would prefer me to cup my hand and they
would hang out for a while. Some did NOT want to be touched at all and
made it quite clear.
I also keep an eye on my own skin because from fall to spring I have
terribly dry skin. Some places are cracked, some fingers split at the
ends and when it's just overly dry it's a bit scratchy and could
scratch a fish's body, so I do make sure my hands won't do any harm.
It's never a good idea to put hands with cuts or open wounds in a tank
anyway, there are some nasties that can affect humans.

[humBill]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "humBill" > wrote in message
> om...
>>I have two blood parrots which can be very sociable at times. If I put my
>>finger in the tank they will sometimes nibble at it, even though I think
>>they have figured out it isnt food. Not as often, but sometimes they will
>>swim by my finger allow me to gently touch/stroke their backs. It is
>>really very exciting since they were very shy for so long. My question
>>though- are there any detriments to touching your fish - slime coat
>>damage, etc.
>> Thanxx
>> Bill
>
>
> For you, don't do it if you have cuts on your hands. For them, the
> portion of your hands contacting them must be wet. Otherwise, I don't see
> a problem as it isn't something you do constantly, like a petting zoo.
> When it comes to moving fish, my experience is that hands can be better
> than nets, but I wouldn't advise people to do it, as it takes some
> practice. Non contact transport is really the best (i.e.: pails), but I'm
> straying from your question ;~)
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
Well, I realize there isnt a total consensus but I think I was continue with
the cautious and safe but still do it approach. I realize the YRMV is
always in affect, but I remember reading of someone who for some reason
(forgot), would feed one of his BPs daily (for years) by gently holding in
one hand and hand feeding with the other(it would swim into his hand). The
'no cuts' is something I hadnt thought of - Thanxx.

I really want to do it mostly for selfish reasons but I believe these little
fellows really want it as well. I know there is controversy as to whether
they should be around at all, but for my part they are amazing pets. They
are quite shy, ecspecially at first but when they realise it is 'me' they
will follow me around the room, come right up to my face and as mentioned
almost rub against my finger and give me little 'kisses' as I call them.
Yes I know there is usually a Pavlovian response to some extent - Bill= food
provider - but I really feel it is more at times. To be sure I consider
them much more of a pet, than just two more fish.

Bill

[MarAzul]

"humBill" > wrote in message
om...
> I really want to do it mostly for selfish reasons but I believe these
> little fellows really want it as well. I know there is controversy as to
> whether they should be around at all, but for my part they are amazing
> pets. They are quite shy, ecspecially at first but when they realise it
> is 'me' they will follow me around the room, come right up to my face and
> as mentioned almost rub against my finger and give me little 'kisses' as I
> call them. Yes I know there is usually a Pavlovian response to some
> extent - Bill= food provider - but I really feel it is more at times. To
> be sure I consider them much more of a pet, than just two more fish.
>
> Bill
>

Parrots are great fish. I adore mine because they're so full of personality.


Mar
---------
Vet Tech student
http://www.bloodparrots.co.uk/forum/

[Gfishery]

"MarAzul" > wrote in message news:F6AVd.38394$Tt.14694@fed1read05...
> Parrots are great fish.

I would have bet my house they were birds ;)

[Tedd Jacobs]

"Gfishery" wrote...
>
> "MarAzul" wrote...
>> Parrots are great fish.
>
> I would have bet my house they were birds ;)

.... and you would have been left picking up the *picies*. ;^)