Betta in a VASE

[winddancir]

Some one is still selling them!!!
CRUELTY TO FISH!!!
www.blossomflower.com
Betta Fish with Green Plant
B4320
Send a colorful betta fish swimming in a clear glass vase beneath a beautiful peace lily plant.

Now you have the info, do what you like!

[George Patterson]

winddancir wrote:
>
> Some one is still selling them!!!
> CRUELTY TO FISH!!!
> www.blossomflower.com
> Betta Fish with Green Plant
> B4320
> Send a colorful betta fish swimming in a clear glass vase beneath a
> beautiful peace lily plant.

I can't find anything like that on that web site. I searched for "beta",
"betta", "peace", and "B4320". Nada.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[blove]

It is forsale under the section Local Specials, i am emailing them telling
them how horrible the setup is, aswell as including a lot of links
supporting my info that i am sending them.


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> winddancir wrote:
>>
>> Some one is still selling them!!!
>> CRUELTY TO FISH!!!
>> www.blossomflower.com
>> Betta Fish with Green Plant
>> B4320
>> Send a colorful betta fish swimming in a clear glass vase beneath a
>> beautiful peace lily plant.
>
> I can't find anything like that on that web site. I searched for "beta",
> "betta", "peace", and "B4320". Nada.
>
> George Patterson
> I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
blove > wrote:
>It is forsale under the section Local Specials, i am emailing them telling
>them how horrible the setup is, aswell as including a lot of links
>supporting my info that i am sending them.

I keep bettas in small plastic cups. I have a lot of them, some
quite expensive show fish. This is normal in the betta breeding world. As
long as the water is changed frequently, kept warm and they are fed live
food they do great and are quite happy, active and fecund.

A well taken care of betta in a small container is much better off
than a poor cared for betta in a big tank with fish nipping at it's
fins. If you think a vase is cruel you should see the 1/2" of slimy
muddey water then live in in the wild.

Do these fish look unhappy to you?

http://images.aquaria.net/fish/bettas/splendens/HM/


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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> blove > wrote:
>
>>It is forsale under the section Local Specials, i am emailing them telling
>>them how horrible the setup is, aswell as including a lot of links
>>supporting my info that i am sending them.
>
>
> I keep bettas in small plastic cups. I have a lot of them, some
> quite expensive show fish. This is normal in the betta breeding world. As
> long as the water is changed frequently, kept warm and they are fed live
> food they do great and are quite happy, active and fecund.
>
> A well taken care of betta in a small container is much better off
> than a poor cared for betta in a big tank with fish nipping at it's
> fins. If you think a vase is cruel you should see the 1/2" of slimy
> muddey water then live in in the wild.
>
> Do these fish look unhappy to you?
>
> http://images.aquaria.net/fish/bettas/splendens/HM/
>
>
The problem is that customers are told that the fish will eat the peace
lily's roots and that the lily will keep the water clean without any
need to change it. The lily may keep the water clean, but the betta
faces a slow death by starvation since it can't live on plant roots.
Sometimes there is also no open space for the betta to breathe at the
surface either so if the water is low in oxygen, like at night, the fish
is oxygen-starved.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

>The problem is that customers are told that the fish will eat the peace
>lily's roots and that the lily will keep the water clean without any
>need to change it. The lily may keep the water clean, but the betta
>faces a slow death by starvation since it can't live on plant roots.
>Sometimes there is also no open space for the betta to breathe at the
>surface either so if the water is low in oxygen, like at night, the fish
>is oxygen-starved.

To some extend that's true. The plant will absorb a tremendous
amout of wast. I see no problem there. The betta of course cannot
survice on a plant root but it may well survive on the microbial
life there - that remains to be seen. As for no way to get air,
bettas, when "in a pinch" will swimm agressiviely and jump to get
air, they're quite feisty in that respect.


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[Charles]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 04:25:54 GMT, (Richard Sexton)
wrote:

>In article >,
>blove > wrote:
>>It is forsale under the section Local Specials, i am emailing them telling
>>them how horrible the setup is, aswell as including a lot of links
>>supporting my info that i am sending them.
>
>I keep bettas in small plastic cups. I have a lot of them, some
>quite expensive show fish. This is normal in the betta breeding world. As
>long as the water is changed frequently, kept warm and they are fed live
>food they do great and are quite happy, active and fecund.
>
>A well taken care of betta in a small container is much better off
>than a poor cared for betta in a big tank with fish nipping at it's
>fins. If you think a vase is cruel you should see the 1/2" of slimy
>muddey water then live in in the wild.
>
>Do these fish look unhappy to you?
>
> http://images.aquaria.net/fish/bettas/splendens/HM/


I had occasion to visit a fish wholesaler not long ago and saw how the
bettas are kept. Those little cups are positively roomy. the fish at
the wholesaler were in little plastic bags hanging on the wall, I
think there was less water in the bag than the volume of the fish.
--
Charles

Does not play well with others.

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>The problem is that customers are told that the fish will eat the peace
>>lily's roots and that the lily will keep the water clean without any
>>need to change it. The lily may keep the water clean, but the betta
>>faces a slow death by starvation since it can't live on plant roots.
>>Sometimes there is also no open space for the betta to breathe at the
>>surface either so if the water is low in oxygen, like at night, the fish
>>is oxygen-starved.
>
>
> To some extend that's true. The plant will absorb a tremendous
> amout of wast. I see no problem there. The betta of course cannot
> survice on a plant root but it may well survive on the microbial
> life there - that remains to be seen. As for no way to get air,
> bettas, when "in a pinch" will swimm agressiviely and jump to get
> air, they're quite feisty in that respect.
>
>
I just looked at a couple of anti peace lily/betta websites and they say
the lily roots rot and foul the water. I checked some horticultural
sites, and they also say that peace lilies cannot have roots in standing
water.

Once the plant roots start rotting, the dissolved oxygen falls and water
quality goes down. The betta usually dies after the peace lily roots
rot from either lack of oxygen or poor water quality. Of course, the
plant does not fare much better. This usually happens well before the
fish starves because it will try to live on the plant roots. They also
point out that the setup is often not warm enough, since bettas are
really tropical.

Apparantly the poor choice of plant in this setup is the main problem.
A true bog plant like a Sagittaria spp. or a floating plant like water
hyacinth would probably work as intended. Feed the betta some suitable
food, put the vase somewhere warm enough, and you would probably have a
lovely display.

Save the peace lilies! Cruelty to plants! ;-)

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[winddancir]

Check under local specials. Or
http://www.blossomflower.com/product.cfm/iteID/1916
And most of the instructions I've seen say don't feed the fish, don't rinse off the roots of the plant, don't change the water.
So if the plant suffers, and it's roots start rotting, the fish will die after suffering. Then the dead fish becomes fertelizer for the plant and the plant perks back up.
Is that how it's supposed to work?

[IDzine01]

Betta vases are dangerous for so many reasons. The most obvious is the
blocking of the water's surface. Regardless of how much dissolved
oxygen is in the water, Bettas always use their labyrinth organ. In a
case of a lily vase, it's just a matter of time before the oxygen level
drops and Betta literally drowns. All aggressive jumping in the world
isn't going to allow them to reach the surface of the water in the vase
shown in the link.

Also, this is not a complete ecosystem. I don't care how shallow a rice
paddy gets, it is still part of a complete ecosystem fed by a larger
body of water. Nitrofying bacteria cannot establish themselves in a
vase. Aquatic plants can reduce nitrate in the water but it will not do
enough to remove toxic ammonia. In fact, being terrestrial, Peace
Lilies will contribute to the ammonia build up when it deteriorates in
the water... as Elaine said.

There are also feeding issues and water parameter stability issues that
need to be addressed as well. There are so many reasons why a Betta
vase is bad I can't even begin to guess why folks wouldn't emmediately
denounce their use.

[Richard Sexton]

>I just looked at a couple of anti peace lily/betta websites and they say
>the lily roots rot and foul the water. I checked some horticultural
>sites, and they also say that peace lilies cannot have roots in standing
>water.

Peace lilly, Spathiophylum, is an aroid, like hostas or crypts are
are primary bog/marsh plants. I would not put one in *unconditioned*
soil that was submersed as the decomposing soil will mess it up
right quick but in clean water or evern proper aquatic soil,
- that's a different story.

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Spathiphyllum.html

From Steve Pushak:
"Despite being one of the slowest growing plants in my aquarium, I have
kept two specimens of Spathiphyllum alive and growing completely
submerged for several years"

http://www.flowercouncil.org/uk/news/fpnews/Productnieuws_2001/jun2001_spathiphyllum.asp

"Spathiphyllum is actually a marsh plant. Which can stand in water for
months at a time in its natural habitat. In this case the plant will
produce special leaves adapted to life under water. The flowers appear
above the surface of the water."

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[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
IDzine01 > wrote:
>Betta vases are dangerous for so many reasons. The most obvious is the
>blocking of the water's surface. Regardless of how much dissolved
>oxygen is in the water, Bettas always use their labyrinth organ. In a

.... to breathe atmospeheric oxygen.

>case of a lily vase, it's just a matter of time before the oxygen level
>drops and Betta literally drowns. All aggressive jumping in the world
>isn't going to allow them to reach the surface of the water in the vase
>shown in the link.

If you've kept bettas and watched them get stuck you'd know how hard they
try to get air. If there's even a tiny opening in the water surface
they'll find and use it. You might be surpeise how strong they are.

>Also, this is not a complete ecosystem. I don't care how shallow a rice
>paddy gets, it is still part of a complete ecosystem fed by a larger
>body of water.

They have found in depressions as small as heelprints in the mud.
(Brown's account in a recent TFH)

>Nitrofying bacteria cannot establish themselves in a
>vase. Aquatic plants can reduce nitrate in the water but it will not do
>enough to remove toxic ammonia. In fact, being terrestrial, Peace
>Lilies will contribute to the ammonia build up when it deteriorates in
>the water... as Elaine said.

Plants primarily consume ammonia. THey have to reduce nitrate to
ammonia to use it (except crytps which can use nitrate directly)

>There are also feeding issues and water parameter stability issues that
>need to be addressed as well. There are so many reasons why a Betta
>vase is bad I can't even begin to guess why folks wouldn't emmediately
>denounce their use.

The only question I have is can there be enough microbials life
on the roots to sustain the betta. Bettas eat quite a bit, but whatever
the answer is I would not be surprised.

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[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
winddancir > wrote:
>
>Check under local specials. Or
>http://www.blossomflower.com/product.cfm/iteID/1916
>And most of the instructions I've seen say don't feed the fish, don't
>rinse off the roots of the plant, don't change the water.

THat all makes sense. The only issue I see is evaporation.
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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>I just looked at a couple of anti peace lily/betta websites and they say
>>the lily roots rot and foul the water. I checked some horticultural
>>sites, and they also say that peace lilies cannot have roots in standing
>>water.
>
>
> Peace lilly, Spathiophylum, is an aroid, like hostas or crypts are
> are primary bog/marsh plants. I would not put one in *unconditioned*
> soil that was submersed as the decomposing soil will mess it up
> right quick but in clean water or evern proper aquatic soil,
> - that's a different story.
>
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Spathiphyllum.html
>
> From Steve Pushak:
> "Despite being one of the slowest growing plants in my aquarium, I have
> kept two specimens of Spathiphyllum alive and growing completely
> submerged for several years"
>
> http://www.flowercouncil.org/uk/news/fpnews/Productnieuws_2001/jun2001_spathiphyllum.asp
>
> "Spathiphyllum is actually a marsh plant. Which can stand in water for
> months at a time in its natural habitat. In this case the plant will
> produce special leaves adapted to life under water. The flowers appear
> above the surface of the water."
>
Weird. I thought extensions were usually good resources.

http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/factsheets/pottedplants/peaclil.html
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1512.htm

These must be based on soil that won't work in bog conditions. Maybe
I'll try one on the edge of my pond this summer.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[IDzine01]

>If you've kept bettas and watched them get stuck you'd know how hard
they
>try to get air. If there's even a tiny opening in the water surface
>they'll find and use it. You might be surpeise how strong they are.

I've kept many bettas but never in a situation where they had to fight
to breathe. This is no way to treat a live animal. You are suggesting a
situation that is likely to create stress and health problems.

>They have found in depressions as small as heel-prints in the mud.
>(Brown's account in a recent TFH)

Please post a link or more information where I can find this, because
the old Betta in a hoof print is so commonly used by people arguing for
smaller tanks that is has practically become an Urban Fish Legend. I
suspect one guy found a Betta in a hoof print, posted his findings on
the internet and the rest was history.

When there are so many options for appropriate Betta homes should we
really be encouraging people to buy these vases? It's up to the
experienced aquarists to teach new hobbyists how to provide for their
pets. The whole set-up trivializes the painstaking work aquarists go
through to maintain a system as close to what nature provides as
possible. It sends the wrong message and worse, unnecessarily exposes
the fish to a life of stress and disease.

These vases are widely rejected by aquarists and deemed as inhumane.
They have been pulled off the shelves of major retailers all over the
U.S. (maybe world, I have no idea) and much of it has to do with the
influence of experienced hobbyists and possibly the petitions that have
been circulating for quite some time. I haven't even seen a vase since
2001 myself. (until this post, though I'm not surprised they still
exist) As long as there are people to buy them, there will be some that
will sell them. Anyone wanting to convince the masses that they are now
safe definitely has their work cut out for them.

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
IDzine01 > wrote:
>
>>If you've kept bettas and watched them get stuck you'd know how hard
>they
>>try to get air. If there's even a tiny opening in the water surface
>>they'll find and use it. You might be surpeise how strong they are.
>
>I've kept many bettas but never in a situation where they had to fight
>to breathe. This is no way to treat a live animal. You are suggesting a
>situation that is likely to create stress and health problems.

Right now I have a tank on my desk with a make and a female in a cup
floating. If you've bred bettas you may be familiar with his.

The cup moves around a bit, it's floating after all, and bettas,
not being the brightest of fish sometimes make bad decisions.

Occasionaly the male in a frenzy of prespawning display activity
will put himself between the cup and the tank wall and is effectively
stuck. Never mind he has lots of room to get air elsewhere,
he is now determined to get air where he is, so he'll writhe,
wriggle and jump to get air, pushing the cup out of the
way.

>>They have found in depressions as small as heel-prints in the mud.
>>(Brown's account in a recent TFH)
>
>Please post a link or more information where I can find this, because
>the old Betta in a hoof print is so commonly used by people arguing for

I did, but to be more specific, Aug 24 TFH, P94, Tony Pinto's
article discusses the phenomenon of not being able to find
much in the way of bettas in small slow moving streams but
how many species of bettas are found in "flooded forest
floors"... "we did find plenty of fry in the leaf litter of
forest areas"... "... the rain arrived in the early evening,
and while taking cover under the trees we decided to fish in the
shallow leaf litter, not really expecting any success. So imagine
our surprise..." (when they pulled 20 fish out of there).

Because of their labyrinth bettas just needto be wet to survive;
one of my cats knocked a jar with a female onto the floor
last week and the poor thing was there for 3 hours in a puddle
that didn't come close to covering her. She's fine and eating like
a pig as I wrote this.

If you read a lot of aquarium literature it's full of annecdotes
of how little water it takes to sustain bettas in the wild. I'm
not sure where I read the cattle hoofprint story it may have
been Hoedemanns book. Rivulus has also been found in cattle
footprints (in South America) and will flop around on
we mud looking for the next hols to inhabit (Roger Brosseau,
pers. comm.s).

Any killifan familair with "Rivulus punctatus population Jim
Robinson's bsement floor" knows hoe little water fish need
to survive and these are fish without labyrinths.

http://new.killi.net/keeping/tanks/jbf/

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[IDzine01]

Richard,

For a second there I thought you were saying that Tony Pinto was the
one who published the original story of the betta in the hoof print. I
almost fell off my chair vowing to tell him how crazy he has made me
with that story the next time I see him. (LOL) Only, as I read on, I
realized that wasn't the case. :-D

FYI: If you are in the area, (MA), Tony will be speaking on 3/21 about
his adventures in fish catching. It should be really interesting and
I'm sure it'll be geared toward anabantoids.

Anyway, I'm getting off track. My point is that I don't believe lily
vases are the best possible or even good homes for Bettas. It doesn't
come close to replicating nature and it's not an ecosystem in and of
itself. With some heavy customization, you might be able to convert it
into an acceptable home. Otherwise, a cycled tank is the way to go.

~C
ps. I appreciate the debate.

[winddancir]

Just because bettas in the wild can survive like that doesn't mean we can treat our pets like that. Would I keep my very active 3 yr old in a closet? NO! Why should I treat my fish that way? I would think that any sensible fish owner would provide good conditions for the living creature they provide for. In a way, the child analogy is a good one. Because you are responsible for the child or pet all their lives (just ask any parent, just because a child has grown up, does not mean they do not need/love/care for their parents.)
I did see one betta in a vase combo where the store DID take care of it properly, and it was not for sale. partial water changes, rinsing the plant, and very important, feeding the betta. The female in question looked quite happy. No signs of stress that I could see.

The major point on this is most people are not told how to properly care for them, and the plant is usually totally unsuitable for this type of set up. I keep mine in small 1 gal to 2 gal tanks, with a small java fern. They are very friendly, and appear to have a blast playing with the java fern. My female has a bad habit of jumping over a leaf that is up at the surface, so she's in a 2 gal tall tank, with 4 in of space between the secure lid and the water. As far as I can tell, she does this for fun!

[Richard Sexton]

>For a second there I thought you were saying that Tony Pinto was the
>one who published the original story of the betta in the hoof print. I
>almost fell off my chair vowing to tell him how crazy he has made me
>with that story the next time I see him. (LOL) Only, as I read on, I
>realized that wasn't the case. :-D

No, no hoofprints, but he's the one that was catching them in "leaf litter
puddles".

>FYI: If you are in the area, (MA), Tony will be speaking on 3/21 about
>his adventures in fish catching. It should be really interesting and
>I'm sure it'll be geared toward anabantoids.

I've never met him althouh I keep hearing stories from friends
that do nkow him. Sounds like a fun guy.

>Anyway, I'm getting off track. My point is that I don't believe lily
>vases are the best possible or even good homes for Bettas. It doesn't
>come close to replicating nature and it's not an ecosystem in and of
>itself. With some heavy customization, you might be able to convert it
>into an acceptable home. Otherwise, a cycled tank is the way to go.

Well, I think the point is almost any container that keeps them
wet will work, and at the end of the day is depends on the aquarist
and my concern with these things would be that people buy them that
realy don't have a clue how they work or how to care for a fish. But
when you consider what percentage of fish are killed by well meaning
aquarists it's pretty saddening; best to ignore it and do the right
thing with your own stuff.

If they'r enot screwed up in some way I don't see why they wouldn't
work though, there's a reason these fish have evolved over a very
long time to have the labyrinth organ instead of using gills
exclusively.

Offhand I'd guess very few bettas ever see a cycled tank; that
sure dosn't make sense if you're breeding them.

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[Squeek]

I agree...
I bought my betta. phantom from an LFS about2 months ago....he was very sad
looking and not moving much (he was in a jar). I took him home and put him
in a set up 40 litre tank.....He is obviously alot more happy there,
swimming around, flaring at the filter and lying on his side to sleep on a
single glass pebble i left in the aquarium....

Hes been such a joy to watch...he makes me laugh!
"winddancir" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Just because bettas in the wild can survive like that doesn't mean we
> can treat our pets like that. Would I keep my very active 3 yr old in a
> closet? NO! Why should I treat my fish that way? I would think that any
> sensible fish owner would provide good conditions for the living
> creature they provide for. In a way, the child analogy is a good one.
> Because you are responsible for the child or pet all their lives (just
> ask any parent, just because a child has grown up, does not mean they
> do not need/love/care for their parents.)
> I did see one betta in a vase combo where the store DID take care of it
> properly, and it was not for sale. partial water changes, rinsing the
> plant, and very important, feeding the betta. The female in question
> looked quite happy. No signs of stress that I could see.
>
> The major point on this is most people are not told how to properly
> care for them, and the plant is usually totally unsuitable for this
> type of set up. I keep mine in small 1 gal to 2 gal tanks, with a small
> java fern. They are very friendly, and appear to have a blast playing
> with the java fern. My female has a bad habit of jumping over a leaf
> that is up at the surface, so she's in a 2 gal tall tank, with 4 in of
> space between the secure lid and the water. As far as I can tell, she
> does this for fun!
>
>
> --
> winddancir

[Geezer From The Freezer]

What about temperature swinging?

[Geezer From The Freezer]

IDzine01 wrote:

>
> Please post a link or more information where I can find this, because
> the old Betta in a hoof print is so commonly used by people arguing for
> smaller tanks that is has practically become an Urban Fish Legend. I
> suspect one guy found a Betta in a hoof print, posted his findings on
> the internet and the rest was history.

hehe, like saying goldfish live in toilets! :D

[winddancir]

What about temperature swinging?
I keep mine at approx 78-82 degrees, and that includes the variations over a 24hr period.
In the wild, bettas live in southeast asia, and I doubt the temps are stable.
But the bettas we keep as pets have been bred totaly away from the wild types, and therefore should not be kept like them. Can you see how ragged a betta splendens fins would get if it had to hop around from mud puddle to mud puddle? The wild betta has short fins that look (from the pictures I have studied) a lot more sturdy.

[Squeek]

The state of some fishtanks where people keep thier goldoes....the statement
"goldfish live in toilets" is not so far off.....
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> IDzine01 wrote:
>
>>
>> Please post a link or more information where I can find this, because
>> the old Betta in a hoof print is so commonly used by people arguing for
>> smaller tanks that is has practically become an Urban Fish Legend. I
>> suspect one guy found a Betta in a hoof print, posted his findings on
>> the internet and the rest was history.
>
> hehe, like saying goldfish live in toilets! :D

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Squeek > wrote:
>The state of some fishtanks where people keep thier goldoes....the statement
>"goldfish live in toilets" is not so far off.....

In 1989 in alt.aquaria John Berryhill incensed people who
wern't familiar with his sense of humor by asking how to
build a toilet tank fishtank for goldfish. He figues it gets great
water changes and was about the right temperature.

I had the pleasure of sending him a URL for an ad for a company
that makes just that a few weeks ago.


--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Squeek]

hahaha!!!! Nice
"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Squeek > wrote:
>>The state of some fishtanks where people keep thier goldoes....the
>>statement
>>"goldfish live in toilets" is not so far off.....
>
> In 1989 in alt.aquaria John Berryhill incensed people who
> wern't familiar with his sense of humor by asking how to
> build a toilet tank fishtank for goldfish. He figues it gets great
> water changes and was about the right temperature.
>
> I had the pleasure of sending him a URL for an ad for a company
> that makes just that a few weeks ago.
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[winddancir]

In article ,
Squeek wrote:
The state of some fishtanks where people keep thier goldoes....the statement
"goldfish live in toilets" is not so far off.....

In 1989 in alt.aquaria John Berryhill incensed people who
wern't familiar with his sense of humor by asking how to
build a toilet tank fishtank for goldfish. He figues it gets great
water changes and was about the right temperature.

I had the pleasure of sending him a URL for an ad for a company
that makes just that a few weeks ago.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org
Can we get the URl? I'd love to see a toilet tank!

[Richard Sexton]

>Can we get the URl? I'd love to see a toilet tank!


I can't find it; it was a fairly recent web banner ad someplace;
the URL is ni my other computer which suffered a CPU fan mishap
whick let all the smoke out of my CPU last sunday. I
did find Berryhill's original post though:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/7e79de8a3a3707fd?dmode=source

I'll ask John if he kept the url.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[kev]

On 09 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Richard Sexton's opinion
about...

>>Can we get the URl? I'd love to see a toilet tank!
>
>
> I can't find it; it was a fairly recent web banner ad someplace;
> the URL is ni my other computer which suffered a CPU fan mishap
> whick let all the smoke out of my CPU last sunday. I
> did find Berryhill's original post though:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/7e79de8a3a3707fd?d
> mode=source
>
> I'll ask John if he kept the url.
>
>

A quick Google reveals this: http://www.randomimage.us/22600.html


kev

--
Civilization.

An organized system of alternatives to the stone age - CJCherryh

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
kev > wrote:
>On 09 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Richard Sexton's opinion
>about...
>
>>>Can we get the URl? I'd love to see a toilet tank!
>>
>>
>> I can't find it; it was a fairly recent web banner ad someplace;
>> the URL is ni my other computer which suffered a CPU fan mishap
>> whick let all the smoke out of my CPU last sunday. I
>> did find Berryhill's original post though:
>>
>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/7e79de8a3a3707fd?d
>> mode=source
>>
>> I'll ask John if he kept the url.
>>
>>
>
>A quick Google reveals this: http://www.randomimage.us/22600.html

I think that's it, but the one I saw was an ad where youcould actually
buy them.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[kev]

On 09 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Richard Sexton's opinion
about...

> In article >,
> kev > wrote:
>>On 09 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Richard Sexton's opinion
>>about...
>>
>>>>Can we get the URl? I'd love to see a toilet tank!
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't find it; it was a fairly recent web banner ad someplace;
>>> the URL is ni my other computer which suffered a CPU fan mishap
>>> whick let all the smoke out of my CPU last sunday. I
>>> did find Berryhill's original post though:
>>>
>>> http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/talk.bizarre/msg/7e79de8a3a3707fd?d
>>> mode=source
>>>
>>> I'll ask John if he kept the url.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>A quick Google reveals this: http://www.randomimage.us/22600.html
>
> I think that's it, but the one I saw was an ad where youcould actually
> buy them.
>
>

OK - on further Googling :) http://urbanpeel.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?
Screen=PROD&Store_Code=up-1&Product_Code=WZ-154&Category_Code=PM


kev

--
Civilization.

An organized system of alternatives to the stone age - CJCherryh

[Richard Sexton]

>>>A quick Google reveals this: http://www.randomimage.us/22600.html
>>
>> I think that's it, but the one I saw was an ad where youcould actually
>> buy them.
>>
>>
>
>OK - on further Googling :) http://urbanpeel.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?
>Screen=PROD&Store_Code=up-1&Product_Code=WZ-154&Category_Code=PM

$1100- ? Oh my. I'm in the wrong business.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[winddancir]

This has gotten so far off topic! But it is still fun thinking about goldfish in a toilet!

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> blove > wrote:
>
>>It is forsale under the section Local Specials, i am emailing them telling
>>them how horrible the setup is, aswell as including a lot of links
>>supporting my info that i am sending them.
>
>
> I keep bettas in small plastic cups. I have a lot of them, some
> quite expensive show fish. This is normal in the betta breeding world. As
> long as the water is changed frequently, kept warm and they are fed live
> food they do great and are quite happy, active and fecund.
>
> A well taken care of betta in a small container is much better off
> than a poor cared for betta in a big tank with fish nipping at it's
> fins. If you think a vase is cruel you should see the 1/2" of slimy
> muddey water then live in in the wild.
>
> Do these fish look unhappy to you?
>
> http://images.aquaria.net/fish/bettas/splendens/HM/
>
>
Just ran across this set of instructions for a betta in a vase looking
for something else. It looks pretty reasonable, has good care
instructions for the fish and plant, a source of fresh air for the
betta, and even says to keep the betta above 70 degrees.

http://www.bfranklincrafts.com/CraftIdea-Beta.html

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[kev]

On 10 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Richard Sexton's opinion
about...

>>>>A quick Google reveals this: http://www.randomimage.us/22600.html
>>>
>>> I think that's it, but the one I saw was an ad where youcould
actually
>>> buy them.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>OK - on further Googling :)
http://urbanpeel.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?
>>Screen=PROD&Store_Code=up-1&Product_Code=WZ-154&Category_Code=PM
>
> $1100- ? Oh my. I'm in the wrong business.
>

That was my reaction too.


kev

--
Civilization.

An organized system of alternatives to the stone age - CJCherryh

[js1]

On 2005-03-03, winddancir > wrote:
>
> Some one is still selling them!!!
> CRUELTY TO FISH!!!
> www.blossomflower.com
> Betta Fish with Green Plant
> B4320
> Send a colorful betta fish swimming in a clear glass vase beneath a
> beautiful peace lily plant.
>
> Now you have the info, do what you like!
>

If you feed it, what's the problem? My betta lives in a one gallon
betta tank that has some peace lilies in it. The peace lily helps suck
out the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[js1]

On 2005-03-04, Elaine T > wrote:
>>
> I just looked at a couple of anti peace lily/betta websites and they say
> the lily roots rot and foul the water. I checked some horticultural
> sites, and they also say that peace lilies cannot have roots in standing
> water.
>

Hmm... In my one gallon betta tank, I've got two peace lilies that have
sprouted a lot of roots and no signs of rotting. I also have a smaller
one that sprouted one root, and it seemed to have rotted. It's also
sprouting some new roots.

I think pothos is a much better terrestrial plant for sucking out fish
waste.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman