Pond Plants

[99windstar]

When is the best time to put plants in the pond? Never had plants in the
pond before so I haven't a clue. Also, what are some good plants for a fast
moving waterfall? I would like some plants on the waterfall ledges but the
water comes at a fast rate. Is the a good web site on how to establish a
water garden and planting advice?
BTW. I am in the Portland, Oregon area we've had vitually NO winter and are
experiencing a very early spring. The fish aren't coming out yet (2 koi, 1
goldfish, 1 comet) Thanks!!

[kathy]

Around here, SE WA state, our nurseries seem
to get plants in May. But we are also experiencing
nice weather and I wonder if they will push the
season.

I plant watercress in my waterfall. I get it from the grocery store,
just a stem and leaves. I put the stem under a rock and
that's it. (Don't use BV's patent pending 'and beer' method
as I don't drink...) Watercress likes moving water and if the
rock will hold it in your fast moving waterfall it ought to do
really well. The roots don't require much of anything. When
I have to weed my waterfall I just grab it and it comes right
up, seems to send out very shallow and brittle roots.

kathy

[San Diego Joe]

"99windstar" wrote:

> When is the best time to put plants in the pond? Never had plants in the
> pond before so I haven't a clue. Also, what are some good plants for a fast
> moving waterfall? I would like some plants on the waterfall ledges but the
> water comes at a fast rate.
Water cress comes to mind. I also have some things in pots so the current
isn't such an issue if you can hide the pot with rocks

> Is the a good web site on how to establish a
> water garden and planting advice?
The best! There are some very knowledgeable people here.



San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.

[Reel McKoi]

"99windstar" > wrote in message
news:XFKVd.65843$Dc.55647@trnddc06...
> When is the best time to put plants in the pond? Never had plants in the
> pond before so I haven't a clue. Also, what are some good plants for a
fast
> moving waterfall?
===============
I can't help with the waterfall but the other pond plants are usually
available for sale around the last frost date. Many stores carry them much
cheaper than you'll find online. Almost all of mine came from Lowe's, Home
Depot and Wal-Mart. A few came from a local riverside.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
This Space For Rent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:12:26 -0600, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:

>I can't help with the waterfall but the other pond plants are usually
>available for sale around the last frost date. Many stores carry them much
>cheaper than you'll find online. Almost all of mine came from Lowe's, Home
>Depot and Wal-Mart. A few came from a local riverside.

You haven't shopped Portland, OR. I blanched at some of their prices. Sure
made me feel good though when I sell my extra canna's for $5 an one
Portland place had same (and not as nice looking I might add) for $22!!!
Course I'm not a store, just a hobbyist selling a few divides, so don't
have the overhead, but still.... $22!!!!

To 99windstar, for the waterfall, have you been to Sunset Koi & Gardens in
Beaverton? This is a treat, the most fantastic Koi & Plant store I've yet
to visit. (I've shopped at home Tri-Cities, WA, Spokane, and hit a few in
the Seattle area). Sunset even beats Moorehaven in my book, though
Moorehaven is pretty impressive.... but I digress....

Back to a plant for the waterfall, at Sunset K&G they have a fern like
plant growing on many of their waterfalls. I didn't get the name of it,
because I didn't think it would grow here in the desert. Low & behold, this
last summer I found the same fern like plant growing on the little
waterfall I run all winter. At first I thought, ah ha! It is because I let
the water trickle all year around. But no, I think it was this fern type
decoration I once got that you spray with water to keep alive. I was told
it would go dormant if not watered. Well inside I always forgot and it
never looked that great. So last summer I put it by the main water fall
under the Japanese maple, where the micro sprinkler would mist it daily. I
think it put off spores and that's how I now have it on the rocks. One
thing about it, it sure stopped the algae from forming on the rocks, and
what a natural filter, it is still green, even in the cold water.

Kathy, just so you know, I plan to give a bit to you and Bonnie to grow
this year. See if we can make a little "market". ;o)

So 99 if you find out what it is, let me know. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[kathy]

That brings up a resource I forgot to mention,
other pond keepers!
There are probably at least one pond or koi club
in your area. Also watch those tabloid sized ad
papers that come out. Often ponders will sell
divides in those.

And pond plants grow like crazy. The plant you
buy this year you can probably divide into four
plants next year.

As far as planting them - and realize I am still a
total amateur at this (and years don't help...)
but most plants come with a tag that will tell you
how far underwater they should go. Marginal plants
like reeds and sedges and other 'stand up' plants
can usually go from an inch to five inches underwater
at their crowns and they aren't that fussy.
You can use plain garden soil to plant in, they sell nice
rigid mesh black baskets to put the plants in and special
pond tab fertilizer (or use rose spikes). Lilies go on the
bottom.

You just have goldfish right? Koi can cause some problems
but many of them can be overcome with a few tricks.

kathy

[Reel McKoi]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:12:26 -0600, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
>
> >I can't help with the waterfall but the other pond plants are usually
> >available for sale around the last frost date. Many stores carry them
much
> >cheaper than you'll find online. Almost all of mine came from Lowe's,
Home
> >Depot and Wal-Mart. A few came from a local riverside.
>
> You haven't shopped Portland, OR. I blanched at some of their prices. Sure
> made me feel good though when I sell my extra canna's for $5 an one
> Portland place had same (and not as nice looking I might add) for $22!!!
> Course I'm not a store, just a hobbyist selling a few divides, so don't
> have the overhead, but still.... $22!!!!

## Wow! That is a lot! A man at a local Aquarium-Pond store in Nashville
pays me $8.00 for anything nice in a 2 gallon pot with gravel over the soil.
I make about $7.90 on each plant because I got a load of pots for free. I
buy bags of gravel at Lowe's. They go a long way for $2.99 a bag. Soil is
from the woods behind the house. He sells them for $15.99!

> Back to a plant for the waterfall, at Sunset K&G they have a fern like
> plant growing on many of their waterfalls. I didn't get the name of it,
> because I didn't think it would grow here in the desert. Low & behold,
this
> last summer I found the same fern like plant growing on the little
> waterfall I run all winter.

## Water celery? They have a plant here I've seen called water-celery and
water-fern. Some escaped my pond one year and was growing in the damp soil
next to a tree.

At first I thought, ah ha! It is because I let
> the water trickle all year around. But no, I think it was this fern type
> decoration I once got that you spray with water to keep alive. I was told
> it would go dormant if not watered. Well inside I always forgot and it
> never looked that great. So last summer I put it by the main water fall
> under the Japanese maple, where the micro sprinkler would mist it daily. I
> think it put off spores and that's how I now have it on the rocks. One
> thing about it, it sure stopped the algae from forming on the rocks, and
> what a natural filter, it is still green, even in the cold water.

## It's sounds very pretty. :-)

> Kathy, just so you know, I plan to give a bit to you and Bonnie to grow
> this year. See if we can make a little "market". ;o)
>
> So 99 if you find out what it is, let me know. ~ jan

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
Middle TN (zone 6)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:21:23 -0600, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:

>## Wow! That is a lot! A man at a local Aquarium-Pond store in Nashville
>pays me $8.00 for anything nice in a 2 gallon pot with gravel over the soil.

Wish I had some one like that. In the beginning I offered them to a local
place that was just beginning to do pond stuff. Their nursery person said
to the owner, "Those (pond plants) don't grow well here." Her experience
was some friends pond who must have had a black thumb and VERY black fungus
colored thumb not to be able to grow pond plants. I went to another nursery
and they told me, we only by certified health plants from people we trust.
I guess I must have had my T-shirt that said, "Loves insults." Needless to
say, I'm uncutting them, but I'd rather have one place to drop off and have
instant cash, than deal with calls and drop bys.

>## Water celery? They have a plant here I've seen called water-celery and
>water-fern.

The only water celery I know is that one Kathy found a picture of just a
week or so ago. This looks fern-like, like azolla, but it all grows on the
rocks, and doesn't repel water off the surface like azolla, so it is shiny.
I did a search on water-fern, but didn't come across a picture of what I
have. I may have to E Sunset and see if they know the name. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Reel McKoi]

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:21:23 -0600, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
>
> >## Wow! That is a lot! A man at a local Aquarium-Pond store in
Nashville
> >pays me $8.00 for anything nice in a 2 gallon pot with gravel over the
soil.

> Wish I had some one like that. In the beginning I offered them to a local
> place that was just beginning to do pond stuff. Their nursery person said
> to the owner, "Those (pond plants) don't grow well here." Her experience
> was some friends pond who must have had a black thumb and VERY black
fungus
> colored thumb not to be able to grow pond plants. I went to another
nursery
> and they told me, we only by certified health plants from people we trust.
> I guess I must have had my T-shirt that said, "Loves insults." Needless to
> say, I'm uncutting them, but I'd rather have one place to drop off and
have
> instant cash, than deal with calls and drop bys.

## That's what I like about the place in Nashville. He takes everything I
have at the time. I don't have to make a bunch of drop-offs. He also buys
all my extra fish. I can take cash or he gives me credit for store items.
I usually take cash.

> >## Water celery? They have a plant here I've seen called water-celery
and
> >water-fern.

> The only water celery I know is that one Kathy found a picture of just a
> week or so ago. This looks fern-like, like azolla, but it all grows on the
> rocks, and doesn't repel water off the surface like azolla, so it is
shiny.
> I did a search on water-fern, but didn't come across a picture of what I
> have. I may have to E Sunset and see if they know the name. ~ jan

## Oh, sorry, what you're describing is something altogether different.

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[ClaudCar]

are you guys talking about "air fern"? that unnaturally green stuff? water
fern - SUN plant? water celery? "real" names?

--
______________________
Claudia
Totus Tuus

[kathy]

Water Celery is the *actual* name
(I don't *do* scientific names ;-)
and it does well in full sun. I had
some growing in my frog bog
which is shallow and gets lots of
hot sun in the summer.

There are a couple different versions
of it, varigated, green and pink (which
I guess is still varigated but I always tend
to think green and white) and plain old green.

One of our nurseries sells it.
It is a vigorous grower.

I had the pink and green kind in the
frog bog and took it out as it tended to look
like it was drying out. The pink turned more
cream coloured in the sun whereas jan's, which
had more shade, really looked pretty with a
truer pink with the green.

kathy

[Reel McKoi]

"ClaudCar" > wrote in message
news:4W2Wd.40487$uc.38163@trnddc01...
> are you guys talking about "air fern"? that unnaturally green stuff?
water
> fern - SUN plant? water celery? "real" names?
=======================
I wish pond plants were sold with the correct names on them. I've seen some
at Lowe's with no tags at all. I suppose they get lost along the way. Or
they'll be sold as Blue Flag or some other name that may fit several
different plants.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
I have a firm grip on reality.
Now I can strangle it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:46:08 GMT, "ClaudCar" >
wrote:

>are you guys talking about "air fern"? that unnaturally green stuff? water
>fern - SUN plant? water celery? "real" names?

I do know what air fern is, this is a bit coarser. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Phisherman]

Unless you use chlorine in your pond, you already have algae (plants)
growing there. Some plants can be invasive, but I've found selecting
dwarf or variegated types grow more slowly. You can add plants at any
time, although spring is best. I don't have any plant suggestions for
a fast moving water. I have elodea, parrot feather, dwarf rush,
variegated flag, lilies, hornwort, water hyacinth. I had cattails,
and had to remove them because they took over the entire pond, perhaps
I will try a dwarf variety.


On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:43:35 GMT, "99windstar"
> wrote:

>When is the best time to put plants in the pond? Never had plants in the
>pond before so I haven't a clue. Also, what are some good plants for a fast
>moving waterfall? I would like some plants on the waterfall ledges but the
>water comes at a fast rate. Is the a good web site on how to establish a
>water garden and planting advice?
>BTW. I am in the Portland, Oregon area we've had vitually NO winter and are
>experiencing a very early spring. The fish aren't coming out yet (2 koi, 1
>goldfish, 1 comet) Thanks!!
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 02:53:39 GMT, Phisherman > wrote:

>I had cattails,
>and had to remove them because they took over the entire pond, perhaps
>I will try a dwarf variety.

I've got a pot of the dwarf variety, very easy to control, but I think I'm
going to divide and sell it off this year. Reason, by fall it looked kind
of messy, and it is a difficult plant to get out of the pot and divide.
Plus, the wind was always blowing it over.

I've also gotten to where I enjoy the water-conditioned cannas more than
many of the hardy marginals. Come fall, when the cannas come out, I put
several pots of iris in there place. They grow and bloom before the cannas
are hardened off, thus plant filtering the pond in spring, then I move them
to these pots I've got out by the front door. Looked pretty cool last year,
as long as the paper boy didn't wack them or drown the paper in them.
;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[~Roy~]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:06:30 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
> wrote:

>===<>>On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 02:53:39 GMT, Phisherman > wrote:
>===<>
>===<>>I had cattails,
>===<>>and had to remove them because they took over the entire pond, perhaps
>===<>>I will try a dwarf variety.
>===<>
>===<>I've got a pot of the dwarf variety, very easy to control, but I think I'm
>===<>going to divide and sell it off this year. Reason, by fall it looked kind
>===<>of messy, and it is a difficult plant to get out of the pot and divide.
>===<>Plus, the wind was always blowing it over.
>===<>
>===<>I've also gotten to where I enjoy the water-conditioned cannas more than
>===<>many of the hardy marginals. Come fall, when the cannas come out, I put
>===<>several pots of iris in there place. They grow and bloom before the cannas
>===<>are hardened off, thus plant filtering the pond in spring, then I move them
>===<>to these pots I've got out by the front door. Looked pretty cool last year,
>===<>as long as the paper boy didn't wack them or drown the paper in them.
>===<> ;o) ~ jan
>===<>
>===<> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I have never had any luck with the dwarf variety of cat tails either,
even growiing in a natural pond. Seemed just a slight breeze would
break or bend them over.......I do have lots of regular cat tails and
have no problems keeping them under control, but have since pulled a
lot of them up and replaced them with thick stands of Iris.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

[Derek Broughton]

kathy wrote:

> Water Celery is the *actual* name
> (I don't *do* scientific names ;-)

For those of you who don't "do" scientific names, check out
http://www.itis.usda.gov/. It doesn't help find "Water celery", but if you
ask for "celery", you find "watercelery" and "Vallisneria
americana" (Vallisneria??? see below). It's really helpful for everybody
when we know the scientific name, as there can be a dozen plants or animals
with the same common name (ITIS lists 4 "wild celery", at least two of them
being quite different). Once you have the scientific name, plug it into
"Google Images" (you can usually get there from the ITIS pages - click on
the highlighted common or scientific name, go to the bottom of the page and
click on "Search Off-Site Resources") for various images of the plant.

Vallisneria? OK, this probably isn't a very useful example for ITIS,
because I'm pretty sure Water Celery _can't_ be a Vallisneria. afaik,
Vallisneria are submerged plants, and water celery isn't. otoh, some
plants used as submerged oxygenators in the aquarium trade, really are
emergent plants, so it could be the same thing. It's _so_ much easier when
we know the scientific names...
--
derek

[Benign Vanilla]

"kathy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
<snip>
> I plant watercress in my waterfall. I get it from the grocery store,
> just a stem and leaves. I put the stem under a rock and
> that's it. (Don't use BV's patent pending 'and beer' method
> as I don't drink...)
<snip>

I use a similar beer drinking, place the roots under a rock technique. I did
find out last year that my drink and toss method works well with my stream,
which is actually a series of small pools that are interconnected. The WC
went crazy.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

[zookeeper]

"Derek Broughton" wrote ...
>
> ... Vallisneria? OK, this probably isn't a very useful example for ITIS,
> because I'm pretty sure Water Celery _can't_ be a Vallisneria. afaik,
> Vallisneria are submerged plants, and water celery isn't ...

I'm pretty sure this "water celery" is actually water parsley (after doing
some research last year). Water parsley or Oenanthe sarmentosa is often
called water celery; either all green, or a green/white or green/pink
variegated form.

Pic of green plant at
http://www.calflora.net/bloomingplants/pacificoenanthe.html
Pic of variegated plant at http://www.paghat.com/waterparsley.html
--
Zookeeper
Oregon, USDA Zone 7
3500gal pond, 13 pond piggies

[jazzylee]

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> kathy wrote:
>
>> Water Celery is the *actual* name
>> (I don't *do* scientific names ;-)
>
> For those of you who don't "do" scientific names, check out
> http://www.itis.usda.gov/. It doesn't help find "Water celery", but if
> you

Cool! I didn't know about that site. I'm pretty familiar with botanical
names of ornamental plants (garden center manager), and I've often wondered
what the entire taxonomy looked like. It's been 25 years since I took a
biology class...

[kathy]

>>http://www.itis.usda.gov/.

Wow!! That's one to keep. :-))
I will mend my evil ways and keep it in mind.

kathy