Water Quality

[Peter Smith]

I believe I have a serious water quality problem, and it is causing some of
my fish to die, 14 in the last few days: here is the problem:

I have a 3,500 gall pond, stocked with about 70 fish of varying sizes (3" to
26"). Almost all the fish are huddled at the bottom of the pond in one area,
and they are slowly dieing with a range of diseases.

I have checked the water quality and here are the results: PH 9.5, Ammonia
0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Temp 5C. I have a very good filtration system
running, which does a complete water change every 3 hours. Water is crystal
clear. There is some algae bloom on the surface, which is unusual at this
time of year.

Now I believe that my problem is caused by the low temp coupled with the
high PH is causing some kind of ammonia poisoning even though the reading is
low.

What do others think and if it is a PH problem, how to I reduce it?

Pete

[Reel McKoi]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I believe I have a serious water quality problem, and it is causing some
of
> my fish to die, 14 in the last few days: here is the problem:
>
> I have a 3,500 gall pond, stocked with about 70 fish of varying sizes (3"
to
> 26"). Almost all the fish are huddled at the bottom of the pond in one
area,
> and they are slowly dieing with a range of diseases.

## Just my opinion but it your pond is way overloaded! I have a 2,000
gallon pond and thought it was overcrowded with 25 mixed size koi and
goldfish.

> I have checked the water quality and here are the results: PH 9.5, Ammonia
> 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Temp 5C. I have a very good filtration system
> running, which does a complete water change every 3 hours. Water is
crystal
> clear. There is some algae bloom on the surface, which is unusual at this
> time of year.

## A PH of 9.5????? That doesn't sound good. If I were you I would start
doing a major water change.... adding the NEW water slowly. But what is
the PH of your tap or well water? You also need to get rid of half your
fish - for the sake of the others. Ever year or two we cull ours and sell
the least attractive fish to the pond and aquarium store in town.

> Now I believe that my problem is caused by the low temp coupled with the
> high PH is causing some kind of ammonia poisoning even though the reading
is
> low.

## I think most of your problems are caused by too many fish.

> What do others think and if it is a PH problem, how to I reduce it?
>
> Pete

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
"WORK HARDER, millions in Welfare depend on you."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[San Diego Joe]

"Peter Smith" wrote:

> I believe I have a serious water quality problem, and it is causing some of
> my fish to die, 14 in the last few days: here is the problem:
>
> I have a 3,500 gall pond, stocked with about 70 fish of varying sizes (3" to
> 26").
That seems like a lot of fish.

>Almost all the fish are huddled at the bottom of the pond in one area,
> and they are slowly dieing with a range of diseases.
What kind of diseases?

> I have checked the water quality and here are the results: PH 9.5, Ammonia
> 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Temp 5C. I have a very good filtration system
> running, which does a complete water change every 3 hours. Water is crystal
> clear. There is some algae bloom on the surface, which is unusual at this
> time of year.
What is the PH from the tap? If it's a lot lower I'd do a water change. I'm
not sure your good bacteria are working at that temperature.
>
> Now I believe that my problem is caused by the low temp coupled with the
> high PH is causing some kind of ammonia poisoning even though the reading is
> low.
>
> What do others think and if it is a PH problem, how to I reduce it?
Well, that ph is high, but it's hard to imagine that would kill that many
fish. Others may have better knowledge about ph than I. Is it possible that
some pesticide has entered your pond, perhaps from runoff or a neighbor
spraying? I would do a water change - can't hurt, just remember to
dechlorinator it.


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and
bring something to kill"

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>I believe I have a serious water quality problem, and it is causing some of
>my fish to die, 14 in the last few days: here is the problem:
>
>I have a 3,500 gall pond, stocked with about 70 fish of varying sizes (3" to
>26"). Almost all the fish are huddled at the bottom of the pond in one area,
>and they are slowly dieing with a range of diseases.
>
>I have checked the water quality and here are the results: PH 9.5, Ammonia
>0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Temp 5C. I have a very good filtration system
>running, which does a complete water change every 3 hours. Water is crystal
>clear. There is some algae bloom on the surface, which is unusual at this
>time of year.

9.5, wow. I think that would be enough of a stress right there. What is
your KH, have you checked the pH in the AM & PM? Why do you think the pH is
so high? New cement?? Need to know what is causing it to fix it. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Hal]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 17:57:25 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Smith"
> wrote:

>What do others think and if it is a PH problem, how to I reduce it?

I don't know, but a pH range of 6 thru 9 is recommended.

First check KH. Water changes may be good, but If you want a more
aggressive treatment here is some information I picked up here.

- if KH is below 150 ppm or so, adding baking soda will raise KH and
shift pH down towards 8.4. Suggested dose 1/3 pound per 1000 gallons.
That will raise KH by 20 ppm. or about 1 degree. ½ pound per 1500
gallons.- if KH is above 150 ppm or so, adding Muriatic acid (31% HCl)
will lower KH and shift pH down. Suggested dose 2 ounces per 1000
gallons.

pH Down -
Muriatic acid (31% HCl) a doses of approximately 2 fluid ounces per
1000 gallons per day until the pH is about 8.5. I would not lower the
pH below 8.5 without also testing KH (alkalinity). Acid directly
consumes KH. If KH is lowered below ~100 mg/l, pH will become
unstable, and the pH measurements become meaningless.

I diluted the acid in 5 gallons of water before adding it slowly to my
pond. Always add acid to water, never add water to acid.

Regards,

Hal

[Benign Vanilla]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I believe I have a serious water quality problem, and it is causing some
of
> my fish to die, 14 in the last few days: here is the problem:
>
> I have a 3,500 gall pond, stocked with about 70 fish of varying sizes (3"
to
> 26"). Almost all the fish are huddled at the bottom of the pond in one
area,
> and they are slowly dieing with a range of diseases.
>
> I have checked the water quality and here are the results: PH 9.5, Ammonia
> 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Temp 5C. I have a very good filtration system
> running, which does a complete water change every 3 hours. Water is
crystal
> clear. There is some algae bloom on the surface, which is unusual at this
> time of year.
>
> Now I believe that my problem is caused by the low temp coupled with the
> high PH is causing some kind of ammonia poisoning even though the reading
is
> low.
>
> What do others think and if it is a PH problem, how to I reduce it?

My first thought is overstocking. When did you take your ammonia reading?
What time of day?

Your 9.5 sounds high as well.

What are the fish dieing of? What are the symptoms?


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

[Reel McKoi]

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I believe I have a serious water quality problem, and it is causing some
> of
> > my fish to die, 14 in the last few days: here is the problem:
> >
> > I have a 3,500 gall pond, stocked with about 70 fish of varying sizes
(3"
> to
> > 26"). Almost all the fish are huddled at the bottom of the pond in one
> area,
> > and they are slowly dieing with a range of diseases.
> >
> > I have checked the water quality and here are the results: PH 9.5,
Ammonia
> > 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Temp 5C. I have a very good filtration system
> > running, which does a complete water change every 3 hours. Water is
> crystal
> > clear. There is some algae bloom on the surface, which is unusual at
this
> > time of year.
> >
> > Now I believe that my problem is caused by the low temp coupled with the
> > high PH is causing some kind of ammonia poisoning even though the
reading
> is
> > low.
> >
> > What do others think and if it is a PH problem, how to I reduce it?
>
> My first thought is overstocking. When did you take your ammonia reading?
> What time of day?
>
> Your 9.5 sounds high as well.
>
> What are the fish dieing of? What are the symptoms?
==============================
I think it'll come down to too many fish and too high a PH. A large water
change would be where I would start. While the pond is down I would remove
HALF of those 70 fish. I hope he gets a handle on his problem. It's
probably being aggravated by a parasite or bacterial problem. Just my
opinion.....
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Benign Vanilla]

"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> > My first thought is overstocking. When did you take your ammonia
reading?
> > What time of day?
> >
> > Your 9.5 sounds high as well.
> >
> > What are the fish dieing of? What are the symptoms?
> ==============================
> I think it'll come down to too many fish and too high a PH. A large water
> change would be where I would start. While the pond is down I would
remove
> HALF of those 70 fish. I hope he gets a handle on his problem. It's
> probably being aggravated by a parasite or bacterial problem. Just my
> opinion.....

My guess is it is somehow related to buffering. If his filter is capable of
0 ammonia with that fish load, then by definition it's not overstocked. The
question is...can the filter handle spikes and changes? I'd guess not, which
brings us back to overstocking.

As for treatment, I'd agree with partial waterchanges, and of course
de-chlored. But I would not stop there. I'd probably get a water sample to
someone with a scope, to see if there is a parasitic problem.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

[Reel McKoi]

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip>
> > > My first thought is overstocking. When did you take your ammonia
> reading?
> > > What time of day?
> > >
> > > Your 9.5 sounds high as well.
> > >
> > > What are the fish dieing of? What are the symptoms?
> > ==============================
> > I think it'll come down to too many fish and too high a PH. A large
water
> > change would be where I would start. While the pond is down I would
> remove
> > HALF of those 70 fish. I hope he gets a handle on his problem. It's
> > probably being aggravated by a parasite or bacterial problem. Just my
> > opinion.....
>
> My guess is it is somehow related to buffering. If his filter is capable
of
> 0 ammonia with that fish load, then by definition it's not overstocked.
The
> question is...can the filter handle spikes and changes? I'd guess not,
which
> brings us back to overstocking.
>
> As for treatment, I'd agree with partial waterchanges, and of course
> de-chlored. But I would not stop there. I'd probably get a water sample to
> someone with a scope, to see if there is a parasitic problem.
==============================
Even if his filter keeps the ammonia at 0 doesn't mean there aren't OTHER
pollutants building up in the water. 70 fish in that much water is quite a
load. He didn't mention how often he's doing partial water changes, or how
much he changes at a time. A scrape and look under the microscope wouldn't
hurt either.....
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
To avoid seeing crossposts from ARJW/Jabriol
Killfile:
Cracklin' Rosie
Jabriol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Derek Broughton]

Reel McKoi wrote:

> Even if his filter keeps the ammonia at 0 doesn't mean there aren't OTHER
> pollutants building up in the water. 70 fish in that much water is quite
> a load. He didn't mention how often he's doing partial water changes, or
> how much he changes at a time.

Agreed. If the bio-filter is working well enough, all that means is you
have no ammonia and no nitrite, but nitrate (particularly at this time of
year when it's not being fully utilized by plants) may be building up.
Nitrate is usually not a big issue, and I still think it's mostly a buffer
problem, but when nitrates get very high it's possible to get all sorts of
strange illnesses.
--
derek

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

With a pH of 9.5 not many bio-bugs can handle that pH and process. I
suspect that the lack of ammonia is at the surface (or the test is
inaccurate), but down where the koi are, it's toxic. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~