Can current stress a betta?

[Elaine T]

I think everyone knows by now that I have a betta, Squishy, who hangs
out in a 2 gallon hex that's been undergoing some changes. It's gotten
more light, a Red Sea nanofilter instead of UGF, and many more plants.

I noticed that Squishy's doing the piscine equivalent of limping today.
He's swimming mostly with one pectoral fin because the base of the
other is inflamed. His tail doesn't look great either, but he's a
tail-biter so it's hard to know what's happened to it. It is more
tattered than it was, but there is no rot.

I always think "poor water quality" when I see fin inflammation on a
fish, but his is fine as far as I can tell. 0/0/8 NH3/NO2/NO3 (just
fertilized; it was at 2 ppm), pH 7.1. Weekly 50% water changes and
fast-growing plants. Temps are a bit high today at 82F from sun I
think, but his tank normally runs at 78-80. I'm going to do a series of
largish water changes just in case, but I really don't think water is
the trouble. I also don't want to dump any meds in the tank just yet.
This is mostly healthy fish who should be just fine if I can remove the
stressor.

He's eating eagerly and attacked the pipette I used for the nitrate test
earlier tonight. However, he's not bubblenesting as much as before I
changed filters and lighting and he spends a lot of time at the bottom
of the tank behind the clumps of stem plants where the water is still.
I haven't seen him flare at his reflection in the tank acrylic for a
while either.

What I'm wondering is whether he is living in too much current now. Has
anyone else tried to keep a betta in a small tank with one of these
Nanofilters?

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Elaine T > wrote:
>I think everyone knows by now that I have a betta, Squishy, who hangs
>out in a 2 gallon hex that's been undergoing some changes. It's gotten
>more light, a Red Sea nanofilter instead of UGF, and many more plants.
>
>I noticed that Squishy's doing the piscine equivalent of limping today.
> He's swimming mostly with one pectoral fin because the base of the
>other is inflamed. His tail doesn't look great either, but he's a
>tail-biter so it's hard to know what's happened to it. It is more
>tattered than it was, but there is no rot.

Bettas these days seem to be really prone to columnaris. If it
looks sick it probably is; i'd treat it in a bowl with acriflavine
NOT antibiotics.

Betta splendens in the wild does not come from fast
moving waters, far from it, to say nothing of the fact
the fish we keep as bettas with their long fins and
inbreding to achieve contemporary colors ar so far
removed from wild fish it's not funny.

I have a 2 gal hex tank with plants and a betts, but it has
no filter.

http://images.aquaria.net/fish/bettas/splendens/veil/mint/rs79/1/

Here's a screed by Wright Huntley on why you don't want to
use antibiotics:

http://aquaria.net/articles/meds/antibiotics/warning/

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[Lisa]

Hmmm. I have one betta in a 6-gallon mini-bow. I am using the Whisper
filter that came with the tank. The betta seems fine, but he mostly
hangs out in one small spot (between 2 plants and under the silk lily
pad - away from the current). Would he be happier if I removed the
filter and just relied on water changes to keep his water clean (I
change 30-50% weekly, anyway).

Despite having similar water conditions and temps, he seems a lot less
active than the 2 divided bettas that I have in a 10-gallon with an
UGF. Those two zoom all over, but I figured it was because they could
see each other. (Although they mostly ignore each other.) Hmmmm . . .
Everything I've read about bettas says to filter the water. However,
perhaps in some situations, and depending on the filter type, a 100%
still-water aquarium might not be a bad thing.

- Lisa

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >, eetmail-
says...
> What I'm wondering is whether he is living in too much current now. Has
> anyone else tried to keep a betta in a small tank with one of these
> Nanofilters?
>
I have one in a 5.5 gallon with some corys and an SAE. I'm using the
small Aquaclear. When he was in a tank with a submerged filter where
the output was horizontal, it bugged him. Now that the outflow is
vertical, he plays in it. I stuck a pencil between the filter and the
tank to make the flow more vertical.

My other betta is in with the submersible filter. It doesn't seem to
bother him, although I do have it turned down pretty low. But when I
change water, I direct the incoming water onto the top of the filter to
minimize plant/gravel disturbance and the betta "body-surfs" across the
top of the filter on the stream from the hose. Even goes against the
flow as well. His body is completely out of the water when he starts,
and when there's enough water that he would be completely submerged he
loses interest.

Bettas are weird!

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> Elaine T > wrote:
>
>>I think everyone knows by now that I have a betta, Squishy, who hangs
>>out in a 2 gallon hex that's been undergoing some changes. It's gotten
>>more light, a Red Sea nanofilter instead of UGF, and many more plants.
>>
>>I noticed that Squishy's doing the piscine equivalent of limping today.
>> He's swimming mostly with one pectoral fin because the base of the
>>other is inflamed. His tail doesn't look great either, but he's a
>>tail-biter so it's hard to know what's happened to it. It is more
>>tattered than it was, but there is no rot.
>
>
> Bettas these days seem to be really prone to columnaris. If it
> looks sick it probably is; i'd treat it in a bowl with acriflavine
> NOT antibiotics.
>
This does not look like columnaris and I saw him flash against the
gravel once today, so I'm thinking salt bath rather than acriflavine or
PP. According to the owner of the store where I worked, columnaris
infections are actually relatively rare.

> Betta splendens in the wild does not come from fast
> moving waters, far from it, to say nothing of the fact
> the fish we keep as bettas with their long fins and
> inbreding to achieve contemporary colors ar so far
> removed from wild fish it's not funny.
>
> I have a 2 gal hex tank with plants and a betts, but it has
> no filter.
>
> http://images.aquaria.net/fish/bettas/splendens/veil/mint/rs79/1/
>
> Here's a screed by Wright Huntley on why you don't want to
> use antibiotics:
>
> http://aquaria.net/articles/meds/antibiotics/warning/
>
If I pull the filter, which I was already thinking of doing, will
convective water movement from the heater be enough to circulate water
past the plants leaves? I've got rotala and mayaca in there and the
leaves are quite fine. Maybe if I stuff a sponge into the inflow or
outflow of the filter to slow it down...

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Elaine T]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> In article >, eetmail-
> says...
>
>>What I'm wondering is whether he is living in too much current now. Has
>>anyone else tried to keep a betta in a small tank with one of these
>>Nanofilters?
>>
>
> I have one in a 5.5 gallon with some corys and an SAE. I'm using the
> small Aquaclear. When he was in a tank with a submerged filter where
> the output was horizontal, it bugged him. Now that the outflow is
> vertical, he plays in it. I stuck a pencil between the filter and the
> tank to make the flow more vertical.
>
> My other betta is in with the submersible filter. It doesn't seem to
> bother him, although I do have it turned down pretty low. But when I
> change water, I direct the incoming water onto the top of the filter to
> minimize plant/gravel disturbance and the betta "body-surfs" across the
> top of the filter on the stream from the hose. Even goes against the
> flow as well. His body is completely out of the water when he starts,
> and when there's enough water that he would be completely submerged he
> loses interest.
>
> Bettas are weird!
>
Heh. They sure are. Squishy likes to swim just up to the filter
outflow and then let it push him down to the bottom of the tank. His
other favorite trick is to let the fliter plaster him against some
plants to rest. I'm going to try sticking a sponge in the filter inflow
or outflow to slow it down and see if that's more to his taste.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Angrie.Woman]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, eetmail-
> says...
>> What I'm wondering is whether he is living in too much current now. Has
>>>>
> I have one in a 5.5 gallon with some corys and an SAE. I'm using the
> small Aquaclear. When he was in a tank with a submerged filter where
> the output was horizontal, it bugged him. Now that the outflow is
> vertical, he plays in it. I stuck a pencil between the filter and the
> tank to make the flow more vertical.
>
>
Argh....now I wish I hadn't passed up that aquarium somebody was tossing out
today. "Too small!" I told myself.


A

[Richard Sexton]

>This does not look like columnaris and I saw him flash against the
>gravel once today, so I'm thinking salt bath rather than acriflavine or
>PP. According to the owner of the store where I worked, columnaris
>infections are actually relatively rare.

Utter nonsense. Dieter Untergasser in _Handbook of fish diseases_
calls it "relatively common". There are a handfull of symptons
and it can take an acute or chronic course. It's a long treatemtn
to sure it. Worth looking in this book at any good store. One day
I'll type in the salient points but do not have time right now to
do it justice.

>If I pull the filter, which I was already thinking of doing, will
>convective water movement from the heater be enough to circulate water
>past the plants leaves? I've got rotala and mayaca in there and the
>leaves are quite fine. Maybe if I stuff a sponge into the inflow or
>outflow of the filter to slow it down...

Why not use the smallest sponge filter you can find, air driven?

Although I don't hear my plants complain about the lack
of a filter, but I don't have a heater... thermal stratification
is an issue.

--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Larry Blanchard]

In article >, eetmail-
says...
> I'm going to try sticking a sponge in the filter inflow
> or outflow to slow it down and see if that's more to his taste.
>
I've got a Red Sea nanofilter on a 2.2 gallon quarantine tank and it has
an adjustment at the top of the intake. I can shut mine almost
completely off (which might burn out the pump), but I usually turn the
adjuster to get about half flow.

Doesn't yours have the adjuster?

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Squeek]

yeah...i know how weird they can get....
My betta Phantom...FLARES at the filter.....then he goes and tries to swim
agaist the current (the current is fairly weak and not everywhere...just in
one small spot)....when he ends up touching the filter while swimming in the
current....he quickly swims away and comes back to the bottom of the filter
and nips at it a few times.....then its back to flaring at it!!!! hes so
sute to watch!!!
"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, eetmail-
> says...
>> What I'm wondering is whether he is living in too much current now. Has
>> anyone else tried to keep a betta in a small tank with one of these
>> Nanofilters?
>>
> I have one in a 5.5 gallon with some corys and an SAE. I'm using the
> small Aquaclear. When he was in a tank with a submerged filter where
> the output was horizontal, it bugged him. Now that the outflow is
> vertical, he plays in it. I stuck a pencil between the filter and the
> tank to make the flow more vertical.
>
> My other betta is in with the submersible filter. It doesn't seem to
> bother him, although I do have it turned down pretty low. But when I
> change water, I direct the incoming water onto the top of the filter to
> minimize plant/gravel disturbance and the betta "body-surfs" across the
> top of the filter on the stream from the hose. Even goes against the
> flow as well. His body is completely out of the water when he starts,
> and when there's enough water that he would be completely submerged he
> loses interest.
>
> Bettas are weird!
>
> --
> Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>This does not look like columnaris and I saw him flash against the
>>gravel once today, so I'm thinking salt bath rather than acriflavine or
>>PP. According to the owner of the store where I worked, columnaris
>>infections are actually relatively rare.
>
>
> Utter nonsense. Dieter Untergasser in _Handbook of fish diseases_
> calls it "relatively common". There are a handfull of symptons
> and it can take an acute or chronic course. It's a long treatemtn
> to sure it. Worth looking in this book at any good store. One day
> I'll type in the salient points but do not have time right now to
> do it justice.
>
>
>>If I pull the filter, which I was already thinking of doing, will
>>convective water movement from the heater be enough to circulate water
>>past the plants leaves? I've got rotala and mayaca in there and the
>>leaves are quite fine. Maybe if I stuff a sponge into the inflow or
>>outflow of the filter to slow it down...
>
>
> Why not use the smallest sponge filter you can find, air driven?
>
> Although I don't hear my plants complain about the lack
> of a filter, but I don't have a heater... thermal stratification
> is an issue.
>

I turned the filter all the way down and Squishy looks better today.
He's using both fins evenly again and chasing the Amano shrimp all over
the tank.

I have Untergasser and a few other decent books as well so no need to
type anything. I'll take a look at the Fleixbacter stuff in there. I
must have misremembered Dennis - maybe I have it backwards and he said
that true fungus on an uninjured fish was rare. I still hope I can cure
whatever-it-is by simply destressing the fish.

As for sponge filtering, I was hoping to keep what little atmospheric
CO2 I have in the tank with less surface splash. That's why I got a
power filter in the first place. However, I'm using Flourish Excel so
maybe it's not an issue. I could probably get away with a bare airstone
for water movement considering the surface area of all the plants I have
packed in there, but the sponge does make a nice mechanical filter.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Elaine T]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> In article >, eetmail-
> says...
>
>> I'm going to try sticking a sponge in the filter inflow
>>or outflow to slow it down and see if that's more to his taste.
>>
>
> I've got a Red Sea nanofilter on a 2.2 gallon quarantine tank and it has
> an adjustment at the top of the intake. I can shut mine almost
> completely off (which might burn out the pump), but I usually turn the
> adjuster to get about half flow.
>
> Doesn't yours have the adjuster?
>
I was afraid of burning out the pump, like you said. I've turned it all
the way down now and Squishy seems better. He's using both fins again
and flaring at the Amano shrimp.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

>As for sponge filtering, I was hoping to keep what little atmospheric
>CO2 I have in the tank with less surface splash. That's why I got a
>power filter in the first place. However, I'm using Flourish Excel so

THat's backwards. By moving water around without a decent amount
of "splish-splash" your plants will use up the co2 and that's the
end of it. Strong agitaiton of the water gets you a constant
4-6ppm of co2. I had long wondered why my tanks with sponge
filters have better plant growth when the outlet rides above
the sirface by aboutnan inch compared to ones that are at
surface level; this is why.

>maybe it's not an issue. I could probably get away with a bare airstone
>for water movement considering the surface area of all the plants I have
>packed in there, but the sponge does make a nice mechanical filter.

If you're adding carbon in the form of excel you don't need to
worry about co2 or water agitation. I don't see any reason not
to use a small sponge filter. Hagan makes these tint 3" plastic
jobs that stickon to the back of a tank; pretty usefull for tiny
tanks.

--
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1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>As for sponge filtering, I was hoping to keep what little atmospheric
>>CO2 I have in the tank with less surface splash. That's why I got a
>>power filter in the first place. However, I'm using Flourish Excel so
>
>
> THat's backwards. By moving water around without a decent amount
> of "splish-splash" your plants will use up the co2 and that's the
> end of it. Strong agitaiton of the water gets you a constant
> 4-6ppm of co2. I had long wondered why my tanks with sponge
> filters have better plant growth when the outlet rides above
> the sirface by aboutnan inch compared to ones that are at
> surface level; this is why.
>
>
>>maybe it's not an issue. I could probably get away with a bare airstone
>>for water movement considering the surface area of all the plants I have
>>packed in there, but the sponge does make a nice mechanical filter.
>
>
> If you're adding carbon in the form of excel you don't need to
> worry about co2 or water agitation. I don't see any reason not
> to use a small sponge filter. Hagan makes these tint 3" plastic
> jobs that stickon to the back of a tank; pretty usefull for tiny
> tanks.
>
*blink* That makes sense. An airstone would keep C02 at atmospheric.
I'm too used to thinking about driving off CO2 from supplementation.

I've got the nanofilter cranked all the way down and the betta looks WAY
better today. A sponge filter sounds like a good long-term plan for the
betta and I'll grab one at LFS when I go next. I can use the nanofilter
somewhere else, I'm sure.

Thanks.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><