Woohooo got my new aquarium...

[[email protected]]

Hi guys...

I finally decided and got a 33gal tank kit from Hagen.

It is a nice tank and it came with an aquaclear 70 filter it has a bio
filter and it is designed for 40-70gal tanks... I guess that should be
enough. :)

It also came with a heater and that is what concerns me...
It is a Elite radiant 100W from Hagen as well but the package says it
is good for up to 20Gal tanks...

I am afraid that the heater wont be able to keep a constant temp in my
33gal tank.

What you guys think? Should I go back and complain to get a more
dequate heater?

Right now I just started the cycle and I will be bringing a sample of
water to the pet store for them to check ph,hardness amonia levels.

[NetMax]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi guys...
>
> I finally decided and got a 33gal tank kit from Hagen.
>
> It is a nice tank and it came with an aquaclear 70 filter it has a bio
> filter and it is designed for 40-70gal tanks... I guess that should be
> enough. :)
>
> It also came with a heater and that is what concerns me...
> It is a Elite radiant 100W from Hagen as well but the package says it
> is good for up to 20Gal tanks...
>
> I am afraid that the heater wont be able to keep a constant temp in my
> 33gal tank.
>
> What you guys think? Should I go back and complain to get a more
> dequate heater?
>
> Right now I just started the cycle and I will be bringing a sample of
> water to the pet store for them to check ph,hardness amonia levels.


Technically, figure 3 to 5 watts per gallon, (you need a 99 to 165w
heater), so I would return it, but don't exchange it for a bigger Radiant
(these are really entry-level heaters). Offer to buy a submersible
digital heater for a discount. This is a good investment imo.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Justin Boucher]

Congrats on your new Toy!!

In addition to NetMax's message, I would recommend that you invest in your
own set of test kits. pH, Nitrite (not Nitrate) and Ammonia are the bare
minimum. Hardness can be a factor depending mostly upon your water source
and the type of fish you intend to keep. You will find more often than not,
that having these three basic test kits can provide you with a wealth of
knowledge in a moments notice should you suspect anything wrong with your
tank. Not to mention saving the trips out to the store everytime you're
curious.

Justin

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi guys...
>
> I finally decided and got a 33gal tank kit from Hagen.
>
> It is a nice tank and it came with an aquaclear 70 filter it has a bio
> filter and it is designed for 40-70gal tanks... I guess that should be
> enough. :)
>
> It also came with a heater and that is what concerns me...
> It is a Elite radiant 100W from Hagen as well but the package says it
> is good for up to 20Gal tanks...
>
> I am afraid that the heater wont be able to keep a constant temp in my
> 33gal tank.
>
> What you guys think? Should I go back and complain to get a more
> dequate heater?
>
> Right now I just started the cycle and I will be bringing a sample of
> water to the pet store for them to check ph,hardness amonia levels.
>

[[email protected]]

Thnaks netmax, I talked with the petstore owner and he said that this
kit was put together by Hagen and that I should talk with them first...

But I think I will have to replace it one way or the other.
Right now it is cranked to the max and the temp sticker only shows 22C,
I don;t know if it will increase still but I have no room left with the
heater...

I will certainly look at those submersible ones, but why do you
recomend them anyway?

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Justin Boucher > wrote:
>Congrats on your new Toy!!
>
>In addition to NetMax's message, I would recommend that you invest in your
>own set of test kits. pH, Nitrite (not Nitrate) and Ammonia are the bare
>minimum. Hardness can be a factor depending mostly upon your water source

I'd feel better about this advice if the test kits were accurate
but they're not. If you want to know if levels are "zero", "low"
or "high" they're alright but anyting short of an expensive LaMotte
kit of digital meter is fairly useless for, say, nitrates.

It was 30 years before I bouight my first test kit. It's a wonder
I was able to breed so many fish without them. Look at anybodys
basment who regularly breeds lots and lots of fish. Conspicuous
by therir absence are these test kits..

Having said that the all in one etst strips might be a cheaper
way to go, once you shell out for al the individual kits
you're spent a small fortune.

--
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[NetMax]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thnaks netmax, I talked with the petstore owner and he said that this
> kit was put together by Hagen and that I should talk with them first...
>
> But I think I will have to replace it one way or the other.
> Right now it is cranked to the max and the temp sticker only shows 22C,
> I don;t know if it will increase still but I have no room left with the
> heater...
>
> I will certainly look at those submersible ones, but why do you
> recomend them anyway?


Submersible heaters are more idiot-proof. The first time you do a big
water change *and* forget to unplug your Radiant HOB (hang on back)
heater, the glass tube will most likely shatter (when cold water touches
the hot heater as you refill the tank). Even if you are diligent about
unplugging the heater, you now need to remember to plug it back in (or
you will find out the hard way, how fish respond to a sudden drop in
temperature). Submersible heaters can be located below the lowest level
you ever bring your water level to, so you don't have to worry about this
particular aspect.

Good point made about the test kit. The need for this is inversely
proportional to how many years you operate aquariums. None are
particularly accurate, but you're looking for relative numbers most of
the time, so I find the liquid reagents adequate (jmo).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> Justin Boucher > wrote:
>
>>Congrats on your new Toy!!
>>
>>In addition to NetMax's message, I would recommend that you invest in your
>>own set of test kits. pH, Nitrite (not Nitrate) and Ammonia are the bare
>>minimum. Hardness can be a factor depending mostly upon your water source
>
>
> I'd feel better about this advice if the test kits were accurate
> but they're not. If you want to know if levels are "zero", "low"
> or "high" they're alright but anyting short of an expensive LaMotte
> kit of digital meter is fairly useless for, say, nitrates.
>
> It was 30 years before I bouight my first test kit. It's a wonder
> I was able to breed so many fish without them. Look at anybodys
> basment who regularly breeds lots and lots of fish. Conspicuous
> by therir absence are these test kits..
>
> Having said that the all in one etst strips might be a cheaper
> way to go, once you shell out for al the individual kits
> you're spent a small fortune.
>
I got the 5 in one Mardel test strips and found the pH and nitrate pads
impossible to read and GH difficult. Nitrite and KH were reasonable.
So you really only get 2 tests out of 5.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

>I got the 5 in one Mardel test strips and found the pH and nitrate pads
>impossible to read and GH difficult. Nitrite and KH were reasonable.
>So you really only get 2 tests out of 5.

Whereas with the reagent test kits they're all unreadble. :-)

--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>I got the 5 in one Mardel test strips and found the pH and nitrate pads
>>impossible to read and GH difficult. Nitrite and KH were reasonable.
>>So you really only get 2 tests out of 5.
>
>
> Whereas with the reagent test kits they're all unreadble. :-)
>
ROFLMAO! I'm actually better at reading bromthymol blue without the
silly chart.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[sophie]

In message >, Richard Sexton >
writes
>>I got the 5 in one Mardel test strips and found the pH and nitrate pads
>>impossible to read and GH difficult. Nitrite and KH were reasonable.
>>So you really only get 2 tests out of 5.
>
>Whereas with the reagent test kits they're all unreadble. :-)

I can do my ammonia and nitrate kits fine, and they're reagent ones. I
did try a test strip set but they were (ime) utterly inaccurate. Nitrate
does 0-12.5, 12.5-25, 25-50 etc, which is probably broad-band but fine
for my purposes (which is checking a couple of tanks which have had
plants added to them to see if the plants are using the nitrates up). I
have the ammonia kit from when I was setting up.

--
sophie

[[email protected]]

I used the nutrafin master test kit...I don't know how accurate they
are but at least it was what I expected.

No anmonia or nitrites, which was what I expected from a well water,
and for my area ph and hardness high.

So nothing new...

Got a ph adjust down to bring the ph to 7.2 - 7.0.

I am also a bit confused about water temperature... what is the ideal
one?
Pet store says 24-26C, buddy of mine says 22C.

What is it?

[Richard Sexton]

>I am also a bit confused about water temperature... what is the ideal
>one?

No such thing.

>Pet store says 24-26C, buddy of mine says 22C.

Some killifish prefer 66F (17C), discus like 86F (30C).

22-24C (74-78F) is safe for most fish.

--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
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[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Brian > wrote:
>Unless you're dealing with specialty fish, such as Discus, or you have
>very poor heat in your home, aquarium heaters are optional. I own a
>heater for my tank, but it's more trouble to clean the algae off of it
>than it's worth. My fish (S. American tetras, cats, and a lone dwarf
>cichlid) are just as happy without it.

Exactly.

--
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633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Elaine T]

Brian wrote:
> Unless you're dealing with specialty fish, such as Discus, or you have
> very poor heat in your home, aquarium heaters are optional. I own a
> heater for my tank, but it's more trouble to clean the algae off of it
> than it's worth. My fish (S. American tetras, cats, and a lone dwarf
> cichlid) are just as happy without it.
>
> B
>
I do small planted tanks, either in windows or with a lot of lighting so
the tanks tend to warm up during the day. I find a heater is very
helpful to keep the tank warm at night and prevent wide temperature swings.

My betta and ram would also be pretty sluggish at the 68 degrees I keep
my house in the wintertime.

Agreed that some fish don't need heaters - the white clouds I'm
quarantining for the pond are much better off without.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Angrie.Woman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. com...
> Brian wrote:
>> Unless you're dealing with specialty fish, such as Discus, or you have
>> very poor heat in your home, aquarium heaters are optional. I own a
>> heater for my tank, but it's more trouble to clean the algae off of it
>> than it's worth. My fish (S. American tetras, cats, and a lone dwarf
>> cichlid) are just as happy without it. B
>>
> I do small planted tanks, either in windows or with a lot of lighting so
> the tanks tend to warm up during the day. I find a heater is very helpful
> to keep the tank warm at night and prevent wide temperature swings.
>
> My betta and ram would also be pretty sluggish at the 68 degrees I keep my
> house in the wintertime.
>
> Agreed that some fish don't need heaters - the white clouds I'm
> quarantining for the pond are much better off without.

Me three - I use a heater to keep the temperature even, not necessarily to
elevate it. I have the thermostat programmed to lower the house temp at
night, and when we're all out of the house for a long time (like going to
work and school 5 days a week...)

A

[Richard Sexton]

>I do small planted tanks, either in windows or with a lot of lighting so
>the tanks tend to warm up during the day. I find a heater is very
>helpful to keep the tank warm at night and prevent wide temperature swings.

Location location location. You're in California, right? I used to
live in Palos Verdes which has a pretty Mediterranina climate. Under
low fluorescent lighting in the living room of my apartment my
unheated (18) tanks were conssitantly 74 in winter 76 in summer.

Tanks right near a window will tend to run a little cooler. Lihts
make a difference. My wifes tank with 4W/gal CF runs about 78 while
mine in the same termperature room (78-80 in this part of the house,
the rest is about 62, it's a big old house) run around 68.

>My betta and ram would also be pretty sluggish at the 68 degrees I keep
>my house in the wintertime.

Oddly my bettas don't seem to mind.

>Agreed that some fish don't need heaters - the white clouds I'm
>quarantining for the pond are much better off without.

Sure, they're cold water fish. It's interesting seeing which plants
don't mind the colder temps: Ammania, Cryp. balansae, Ludwigia
repens, Rotala indica don't seem to care. Cryp cordata and pontiderifolia
are downright miserable. Mexican oak leaf and sprite don't mind the
cold not do aponogetons, anubias or crypt ciliata or lucens. Ludwigia
glandulosus object as does mayaca. Red tiger val dones't care neither
do my swords ot Alternerantha. Crypt becketii and wendtii object. Retro-
spiralis doesn't care, usteriana does.

--
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[steve]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> Brian > wrote:
> >Unless you're dealing with specialty fish, such as Discus, or you
have
> >very poor heat in your home, aquarium heaters are optional. I own a
> >heater for my tank, but it's more trouble to clean the algae off of
it
> >than it's worth. My fish (S. American tetras, cats, and a lone dwarf

> >cichlid) are just as happy without it.
>
> Exactly.
>


On the other hand, I prefer to heat my 100 cubic liter tank to 76
degrees, and let my 1 billion cubic meter house temp follow the daily
outdoor temps of 40-60.

steve

[IDzine01]

I tried keeping my bettas at room temperature (70F) for about 4 months.
This was about a year and a half ago, maybe two years. In that time
they were sluggish and very open to illness. Out of 4 bettas 2 got ich
and the other 2 got columnaris. All four died prematurely.

Up until last month I had never had another case of Ich or columnaris
since. One of my old guys got both recently but healed completely. I
can't say for certain that the temperature made the difference but it's
quite possible. I also noted a drastic difference in energy among the
bettas kept at 78F instead of 70.

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
IDzine01 > wrote:
>I tried keeping my bettas at room temperature (70F) for about 4 months.
>This was about a year and a half ago, maybe two years. In that time
>they were sluggish and very open to illness. Out of 4 bettas 2 got ich
>and the other 2 got columnaris. All four died prematurely.
>
>Up until last month I had never had another case of Ich or columnaris
>since. One of my old guys got both recently but healed completely. I
>can't say for certain that the temperature made the difference but it's
>quite possible. I also noted a drastic difference in energy among the
>bettas kept at 78F instead of 70.
>

Columnaris loves warm water; it's unlikely that's what you had
and canonly be confurmed by culturing it.

70 is a bit low. I just measured mine, 74. As I look aorund
a them now half of them are flaring, about a dozen of them.

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