Heater accuracy (Won Brothers)?

[Bill Stock]

I recently purchased a Won Brothers Pro Heat II aquarium digital aquarium
heater for my 75 gallon. The old heater was too small and I plan to go with
an auto water changer in the near future, which will only make matters
worse.

The box makes claims of +/- 1°F accuracy, which if you read carefully,
refers to the digital readout, not the actual heater. The heater has a
range of 68°F to 93°F. I currently have it set at 68°F, but the tank is
reading 72.3°F on my thermometer and 71°F on the heater LED. I thought 4°F
of error was rather crappy given the +/- 1°F claims and the fact that I
wanted to keep the tank around 70°F. I contacted the manufacturer about the
large error, but they did not bother to respond.

Has anyone else had negative experiences with this product? It will be a
PITA to return it, as it has to go back across the boarder. So I don't want
to go through the hassle, if I can expect another lemon.

[dfreas]

What was the temperature before you added the heater? Room temperature
in my house is about 70 degrees F so if I set my heater to 68 the tank
would stay 70 and the heater would just never turn on. It looks like
the heater LED is reading correctly since it is only 1.3 degrees
different from your other reading - and that could easily be a
difference in placement or a small calibration difference (I suspect
the former).

Try setting the heater to 76 F and see if there is still a discrepancy
after a few hours go by. If so then you have a lemon - if not then the
heater is working just fine.

-Daniel

[Bill Stock]

"dfreas" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> What was the temperature before you added the heater? Room temperature
> in my house is about 70 degrees F so if I set my heater to 68 the tank
> would stay 70 and the heater would just never turn on. It looks like
> the heater LED is reading correctly since it is only 1.3 degrees
> different from your other reading - and that could easily be a
> difference in placement or a small calibration difference (I suspect
> the former).
>
> Try setting the heater to 76 F and see if there is still a discrepancy
> after a few hours go by. If so then you have a lemon - if not then the
> heater is working just fine.
>
> -Daniel

LOL, I may be a DS, but not quite that dumb. The room is about 60°F on a
good day this time of year. I suspect they calibrate these things for the
mid point, 80.5°F. So if I wanted to keep the tank at 81°F, I'd be all set.

Thx.

[Nikki Casali]

Bill Stock wrote:
> I recently purchased a Won Brothers Pro Heat II aquarium digital aquarium
> heater for my 75 gallon. The old heater was too small and I plan to go with
> an auto water changer in the near future, which will only make matters
> worse.
>
> The box makes claims of +/- 1°F accuracy, which if you read carefully,
> refers to the digital readout, not the actual heater. The heater has a
> range of 68°F to 93°F. I currently have it set at 68°F, but the tank is
> reading 72.3°F on my thermometer and 71°F on the heater LED. I thought 4°F
> of error was rather crappy given the +/- 1°F claims and the fact that I
> wanted to keep the tank around 70°F. I contacted the manufacturer about the
> large error, but they did not bother to respond.
>
> Has anyone else had negative experiences with this product? It will be a
> PITA to return it, as it has to go back across the boarder. So I don't want
> to go through the hassle, if I can expect another lemon.

4°F of total difference between two thermometers is not bad. That's an
accuracy of +/- 2°F. What is more important is temperature stability.
Does the temperature fluctuate more than a couple of degrees?

I tested my tank the other day for temperature at different depths. My
tank is 24" deep. Between the top and bottom there was a difference of
2.7°F. I repositioned my filter outlet so that it shoots downwards. That
resolved the issue. The thermometer probe can sometimes be affected by
depth.

Nikki

[dfreas]

Geez it's cold wherever you are. 60 is not room temp for any civilized
definition of the word room! Turn your heat on man!

-Daniel

[Bill Stock]

"dfreas" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Geez it's cold wherever you are. 60 is not room temp for any civilized
> definition of the word room! Turn your heat on man!
>
> -Daniel
>

:) It's cheaper to heat the fishies.

Could be worse, I could be out with the pond fishies. They're hovering at
38°F with a cover and a heater.

[Bill Stock]

"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...
>
>
[snippo]

> 4°F of total difference between two thermometers is not bad. That's an
> accuracy of +/- 2°F. What is more important is temperature stability. Does
> the temperature fluctuate more than a couple of degrees?
>
> I tested my tank the other day for temperature at different depths. My
> tank is 24" deep. Between the top and bottom there was a difference of
> 2.7°F. I repositioned my filter outlet so that it shoots downwards. That
> resolved the issue. The thermometer probe can sometimes be affected by
> depth.
>
> Nikki
>

Apparently the MF agrees. Stability is very good, it nevers seems to vary by
more than a 1/2 degree as far as I can tell. But I haven't been sitting
there watching it either. :)

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
dfreas > wrote:
>Geez it's cold wherever you are. 60 is not room temp for any civilized
>definition of the word room! Turn your heat on man!

You've never been to England, have you?


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Justin Boucher]

So that's why they seem to wear an undershirt, a shirt, a sweater, a vest
and a jacket at the same time?

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> dfreas > wrote:
> >Geez it's cold wherever you are. 60 is not room temp for any civilized
> >definition of the word room! Turn your heat on man!
>
> You've never been to England, have you?
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> http://www.mbz.org | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wris****ches http://watches.list.mbz.org

[Dick]

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:39:19 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
wrote:

>I recently purchased a Won Brothers Pro Heat II aquarium digital aquarium
>heater for my 75 gallon. The old heater was too small and I plan to go with
>an auto water changer in the near future, which will only make matters
>worse.
>
>The box makes claims of +/- 1°F accuracy, which if you read carefully,
>refers to the digital readout, not the actual heater. The heater has a
>range of 68°F to 93°F. I currently have it set at 68°F, but the tank is
>reading 72.3°F on my thermometer and 71°F on the heater LED. I thought 4°F
>of error was rather crappy given the +/- 1°F claims and the fact that I
>wanted to keep the tank around 70°F. I contacted the manufacturer about the
>large error, but they did not bother to respond.
>
>Has anyone else had negative experiences with this product? It will be a
>PITA to return it, as it has to go back across the boarder. So I don't want
>to go through the hassle, if I can expect another lemon.
>
>
I love the responses you have been getting. I shudder thinking of
living in such a low ambient temperature (perhaps shiver is more
appropriate).

I have yet to find a heater that is calibrated. The dial markings
seem to be approximate. I have come to assume the plus and minus are
a measure of how accurately the set temperature holds.

Thus I set the dial to 78, the tank temperature settles at 76. I move
the dial to 80 and the tank settles at 78. Leaving the dial alone,
the measure temperature will vary plus or minus, there is always a
lag.

Reliability is more important than accuracy of the dial. If a heater
can hold +/- one degree, I would count that as a good heater. So, if
you keep the 72.3F steady, isn't that what you really need?

dick

[soup]

Justin Boucher popped their head over the parapet saw what was going on
and said
> So that's why they seem to wear an undershirt, a shirt, a sweater, a
> vest and a jacket at the same time?

Pardon my ignorance of leftpondian naming conventions,
but I am fron Scotland .

Is an undershirt and a vest not the same thing ?
Or by vest do you (TINY) mean a waistcoat ?

--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione

[David C. Stone]

In article >, soup
> wrote:

> Justin Boucher popped their head over the parapet saw what was going on
> and said
> > So that's why they seem to wear an undershirt, a shirt, a sweater, a
> > vest and a jacket at the same time?
>
> Pardon my ignorance of leftpondian naming conventions,
> but I am fron Scotland .
>
> Is an undershirt and a vest not the same thing ?
> Or by vest do you (TINY) mean a waistcoat ?

Possibly, more likely a sweater. In the parts of England I used to
inhabit, a vest was an undershirt, but there are always regional
variations (sometimes over the incredibly huge distance of a mile!).

To make matters more confusing, I grew up understanding that a
sweater was, more correctly, a pullover, and pants were underwear.
My Canadian wife looked at me kind of funny the first time I mentioned
wearing a pullover, and I finally understand why Superman (being in
North America) wears his pants on the outside....

[David C. Stone]

In article >, Dick
> wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:39:19 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
> wrote:
>
> >I recently purchased a Won Brothers Pro Heat II aquarium digital aquarium
> >heater for my 75 gallon. The old heater was too small and I plan to go with
> >an auto water changer in the near future, which will only make matters
> >worse.
> >
> >The box makes claims of +/- 1°F accuracy, which if you read carefully,
> >refers to the digital readout, not the actual heater. The heater has a
> >range of 68°F to 93°F. I currently have it set at 68°F, but the tank is
> >reading 72.3°F on my thermometer and 71°F on the heater LED. I thought 4°F
> >of error was rather crappy given the +/- 1°F claims and the fact that I
> >wanted to keep the tank around 70°F. I contacted the manufacturer about the
> >large error, but they did not bother to respond.

[snip]

> I have yet to find a heater that is calibrated. The dial markings
> seem to be approximate. I have come to assume the plus and minus are
> a measure of how accurately the set temperature holds.
>
> Thus I set the dial to 78, the tank temperature settles at 76. I move
> the dial to 80 and the tank settles at 78. Leaving the dial alone,
> the measure temperature will vary plus or minus, there is always a
> lag.

Most of the heaters I've seen cycle on and off at a rate determined by
the "temperature" setting of the control. If ambient temperature
changes by a couple of degrees, the result is a corresponding change
in water temperature since the thermostat is still adding the same
amount of heat.

I would be interested to see if your "Won Brothers Pro Heat II" actually
had a temperature controller rather than a cycling heater in it. The
former would actually measure the water temperature and adjust the
on/off cycling rate to maintain constant temperature. If any one knows
of a system that does this, I could really use one for my 120 gal. lab.
tank - the room temperature is normally pretty constant, but if the
outside temperature changes dramatically overnight, it can vary by as
much as 6 F, and I have to go adjust the thermostat.

Speaking of which, it's time for my daily tank check...

[George Patterson]

soup wrote:
>
> Is an undershirt and a vest not the same thing ?

Not in the U.S.. Here, an undershirt is a thin pullover shirt worn underneath
the shirt. It's also called a "T-shirt." It's usually made of cotton or a blend
of cotton and synthetic material.

> Or by vest do you (TINY) mean a waistcoat ?

What we would call a vest, you would call a waistcoat.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Bill Stock]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:39:19 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
> wrote:
>
>>I recently purchased a Won Brothers Pro Heat II aquarium digital aquarium
>>heater for my 75 gallon. The old heater was too small and I plan to go
>>with
>>an auto water changer in the near future, which will only make matters
>>worse.
>>
>>The box makes claims of +/- 1°F accuracy, which if you read carefully,
>>refers to the digital readout, not the actual heater. The heater has a
>>range of 68°F to 93°F. I currently have it set at 68°F, but the tank is
>>reading 72.3°F on my thermometer and 71°F on the heater LED. I thought 4°F
>>of error was rather crappy given the +/- 1°F claims and the fact that I
>>wanted to keep the tank around 70°F. I contacted the manufacturer about
>>the
>>large error, but they did not bother to respond.
>>
>>Has anyone else had negative experiences with this product? It will be a
>>PITA to return it, as it has to go back across the boarder. So I don't
>>want
>>to go through the hassle, if I can expect another lemon.
>>
>>
> I love the responses you have been getting. I shudder thinking of
> living in such a low ambient temperature (perhaps shiver is more
> appropriate).

Yes it's turned into an interesting thread, almost long enough to make a
waistcoat.

> I have yet to find a heater that is calibrated. The dial markings
> seem to be approximate. I have come to assume the plus and minus are
> a measure of how accurately the set temperature holds.
>
> Thus I set the dial to 78, the tank temperature settles at 76. I move
> the dial to 80 and the tank settles at 78. Leaving the dial alone,
> the measure temperature will vary plus or minus, there is always a
> lag.
>
> Reliability is more important than accuracy of the dial. If a heater
> can hold +/- one degree, I would count that as a good heater. So, if
> you keep the 72.3F steady, isn't that what you really need?

Yes, except when the bottom of the range becomes an issue. But I guess the
2°F won't kill me.


> dick

[Bill Stock]

"David C. Stone" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Dick
> > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:39:19 -0500, "Bill Stock" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I recently purchased a Won Brothers Pro Heat II aquarium digital
>> >aquarium
>> >heater for my 75 gallon. The old heater was too small and I plan to go
>> >with
>> >an auto water changer in the near future, which will only make matters
>> >worse.
>> >
>> >The box makes claims of +/- 1°F accuracy, which if you read carefully,
>> >refers to the digital readout, not the actual heater. The heater has a
>> >range of 68°F to 93°F. I currently have it set at 68°F, but the tank is
>> >reading 72.3°F on my thermometer and 71°F on the heater LED. I thought
>> >4°F
>> >of error was rather crappy given the +/- 1°F claims and the fact that I
>> >wanted to keep the tank around 70°F. I contacted the manufacturer about
>> >the
>> >large error, but they did not bother to respond.
>
> [snip]
>
>> I have yet to find a heater that is calibrated. The dial markings
>> seem to be approximate. I have come to assume the plus and minus are
>> a measure of how accurately the set temperature holds.
>>
>> Thus I set the dial to 78, the tank temperature settles at 76. I move
>> the dial to 80 and the tank settles at 78. Leaving the dial alone,
>> the measure temperature will vary plus or minus, there is always a
>> lag.
>
> Most of the heaters I've seen cycle on and off at a rate determined by
> the "temperature" setting of the control. If ambient temperature
> changes by a couple of degrees, the result is a corresponding change
> in water temperature since the thermostat is still adding the same
> amount of heat.
>
> I would be interested to see if your "Won Brothers Pro Heat II" actually
> had a temperature controller rather than a cycling heater in it. The
> former would actually measure the water temperature and adjust the
> on/off cycling rate to maintain constant temperature. If any one knows
> of a system that does this, I could really use one for my 120 gal. lab.
> tank - the room temperature is normally pretty constant, but if the
> outside temperature changes dramatically overnight, it can vary by as
> much as 6 F, and I have to go adjust the thermostat.

David,

I believe the external temperature sensor is used to control the temperature
AND display it on the LEDs. The temperature is far too stable for it to be
otherwise. I have a similar (different brand) titanium heater in the pond,
but without the digital readout. It also uses the external sensor to control
the temperature. Although I'm using a custom sensor and software to control
this unit, as my temp requirements are well below the range of the
thermostat. WB makes these things up to 1000Ws, more than enough to handle
your 120 G.



> Speaking of which, it's time for my daily tank check...

[pausto]

"David C. Stone" wrote:
>
> Most of the heaters I've seen cycle on and off at a rate determined by
> the "temperature" setting of the control. If ambient temperature
> changes by a couple of degrees, the result is a corresponding change
> in water temperature since the thermostat is still adding the same
> amount of heat.
>
> I would be interested to see if your "Won Brothers Pro Heat II" actually
> had a temperature controller rather than a cycling heater in it. The
> former would actually measure the water temperature and adjust the
> on/off cycling rate to maintain constant temperature. If any one knows
> of a system that does this, I could really use one for my 120 gal. lab.
> tank - the room temperature is normally pretty constant, but if the
> outside temperature changes dramatically overnight, it can vary by as
> much as 6 F, and I have to go adjust the thermostat.
>
> Speaking of which, it's time for my daily tank check...

I think any heater where the sensor is located remotely from
the heating element, is going to give a more stable tank temp
regardless of reasonable fluctuations of the surrounding room
temperature. At least *some* (all?) of the Won Bros. "Pro Heat"
units are set up this way. I have never tried one, but a friend
of mine has one, and he says he likes its performance.
You might also want to check out the "Ranco ETC-11xxxx-xxx"
series temperature controllers. I had recognized this unit as
being used in some pre wired aquarium heater packages. I
purchased just the controller at a local air-conditioning supply
house, for about $50us. You have to cut an extension cord in half
to wire through the contacts (and for power to the controller),
then plug whatever heaters you want into it. The controlers come
in combinations of 1 or 2 stage, heating and/or cooling, 120 or
240volt.
The single stage heating unit that I have will handle 15 amps
of resistive load @ 120volts. I have this unit controlling two
150w EBO's in the sump, with the sensor located in the syphon
overflow box. The unit cycles on at 78.1 deg, and off at 78.6 deg
(though the controller adjusts and displays in whole degrees
only). The tank cycles on add off at these exact same
temperatures whether the room temp is 74 deg, or all the way down
to 57 deg in the winter.
The only way the fish can tell what time of year it is, is by
how warmly I am dressed.

Paul
Yes, I watch TV wearing a hat and scarf in the winter.

[soup]

George Patterson popped their head over the parapet saw what was going
on and said
> soup wrote:

> > Is an undershirt and a vest not the same thing ?

> Not in the U.S.. Here, an undershirt is a thin pullover shirt worn
> underneath the shirt. It's also called a "T-shirt." It's usually made
> of cotton or a blend of cotton and synthetic material.

Ah a "sloppy joe" (blast from the past name) if it is worn under a
shirt it can be called a vest depends on how it is worn rather
than what it is.
cf "string" vests for older chaps, Ts for younger chaps

Remember once wearing a T under a shirt, the shirt
was one colour the T had a slogan on it, some people
spent an inordinate amount of time trying to read the slogan.

--
yours S

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione