Green Light Stump Remover

[Watercress]

Anyone has a definite answer to its content? According to previous
postings it is suppose to be pure KNO3, but when I tested a solution of
it with the Aqua. Pharm. nitrate test, I got a reading of 0. So, is
the problem with the Stump Remover or the Nitrate Test?

BTW, the Nitrate Test did have a non-zero reading with some lawn
fertilizer that I left standing with aeration. Also, the Nitrate test
registered 0 with a solution of Flourish Nitrogen. This doesn't make
sense since the Flourish Nitrogen is suppose to contain nitrate.

A related question. Know of a good nitrate test kit?

[Margolis]

hagen or tetra. Hagen is probably a little better, but it takes a bit more
practice to get it right. Tetra should be more than good enough.


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Margolis
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[Richard Sexton]

In article om>,
Watercress > wrote:
>Anyone has a definite answer to its content? According to previous
>postings it is suppose to be pure KNO3, but when I tested a solution of
>it with the Aqua. Pharm. nitrate test, I got a reading of 0. So, is
>the problem with the Stump Remover or the Nitrate Test?
>
>BTW, the Nitrate Test did have a non-zero reading with some lawn
>fertilizer that I left standing with aeration. Also, the Nitrate test
>registered 0 with a solution of Flourish Nitrogen. This doesn't make
>sense since the Flourish Nitrogen is suppose to contain nitrate.
>
>A related question. Know of a good nitrate test kit?

LaMotte. Or a digital meter. The hobby kits are like windows, they
just don't work properly.

The green light stuff is pure kn03. You can verify this by asking
for the MSDS sheets where you buy it.


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[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Margolis > wrote:
>hagen or tetra. Hagen is probably a little better, but it takes a bit more
>practice to get it right.

Hahahaha, good one. These things aren't even remotely
accurate. They're thrown off by nitrite (the instrucstions
say so but don't say high or lo) and the color charts
are a function of water hardness, I have to use the something
in between the salt and fresh chart for my water and I've seen
them read zero with a calibrated kn03 stock solution and I've
seen them read zero when a LaMotte kit reads 220ppm.

The thing seems to work sometimes and if you guess at what
the chart should be they're usefull for determining
"zero", "low" or "high". When they work.

Plus they contain cadmium. Waste of money.


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[steve]

Richard Sexton wrote:

about Nitrate test kits...

> Plus they contain cadmium. Waste of money.
>


If this causes you concern, you'd better not read the ingredients of
gasoline! You'll have nightmares! And it's exhaust is being spewed
from every car on the road! The humanity!

:)
steve

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
steve > wrote:
>
>Richard Sexton wrote:
>
>about Nitrate test kits...
>
>> Plus they contain cadmium. Waste of money.
>>
>
>
>If this causes you concern, you'd better not read the ingredients of
>gasoline! You'll have nightmares! And it's exhaust is being spewed
>from every car on the road! The humanity!

I drive a diesel. I realize it's not a whole lot better
but there's not much of a choice 50 mles from the closet
city. There are choices in how you test NO3.


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[Margolis]

Sorry, but you need to read the directions then ;op They are more than
accurate enough for what we are dealing with here. There is no need to
spend $100 on a lamotte test when we are not in a laboratory setting. And
there are no digital meters for nitrate.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Margolis > wrote:
>Sorry, but you need to read the directions then ;op They are more than
>accurate enough for what we are dealing with here. There is no need to
>spend $100 on a lamotte test when we are not in a laboratory setting. And
>there are no digital meters for nitrate.

I read the directions seevral times. I've already pointed out the flaws,
but to repeat "tests are affected by nitrite" but they don't say how.

Stock calibrated nitrate solutions do not match either FW or SW chart.

A 200 ppm tank read zero for 24 hours with seevral etsts then read 80ppm
a day later whilke LaMotte said 200 all along. While you may have different
experiences, these are mine. WHen they work they give you a rough idea of
where your nitrates are, modulo error from nitrite which is an unknown.

Many people on APD have digital nitrate meters. Maybe Tom Barr can talk
about his if he pops his head in here.


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[steve]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> Margolis > wrote:
> >hagen or tetra. Hagen is probably a little better, but it takes a
bit more
> >practice to get it right.
>
> Hahahaha, good one. These things aren't even remotely
> accurate. They're thrown off by nitrite (the instrucstions
> say so but don't say high or lo) and the color charts
> are a function of water hardness, I have to use the something
> in between the salt and fresh chart for my water and I've seen
> them read zero with a calibrated kn03 stock solution and I've
> seen them read zero when a LaMotte kit reads 220ppm.


Well I've seen a three legged dog too...

For my requirements, the AP nitrate test kit and the Nutrafin pH kit
are very accurate. When used properly, they reflect the conditions I'd
expect to see with the variables present. For example:

My tap water test for nitrates is 0
The city water report for nitrates is less than 1

When I was cycling a new tank, the first test to show results was for
ammonia.
Within a week or so, the nitrite test showed evidence there.
A short time later, the nitrite test was back to zero and the nitrate
test was positive for 5ppm.

My 55g tank has supplemental CO2

Tap water pH test is 7.4
My initial KH tests were 35ppm
Is it a mear coincedence that the C02 chart calculated amount is
2.4ppm?
As I began to add CO2, the pH steadily dropped to 6.8. I added some
crushed coral to add buffer, and the KH is now at 55ppm. I've since
tripled the CO2 bubble rate and it is now calculated at 26ppm with a
measured pH of 6.6.

When I had a large fish load, the nitrate tests got up to about 20ppm
on a weekly basis. Now that there are less fish, the test does not
show as much. When I added many plants, the nitrate test came up zero
again so I've begun to add KNO3. It seems to be workin' for my hobby
needs, and the plants and fish sure are healty.

steve

[Watercress]

You know your remark about nitrite is interesting. In the three
nitrate test solutions I have. The only solution that showed a
positive reading contains nitrite and ammonium. Hmm, coincidence?

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
Watercress > wrote:
>You know your remark about nitrite is interesting. In the three
>nitrate test solutions I have. The only solution that showed a
>positive reading contains nitrite and ammonium. Hmm, coincidence?

Now you know why the LaMotte kits cost 10X as much.

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[Richard Sexton]

>For my requirements, the AP nitrate test kit and the Nutrafin pH kit
>are very accurate. When used properly, they reflect the conditions I'd
>expect to see with the variables present. For example:

Sure, sometimes they work. The problem is when they don't. It's
not like there's a little light that comes on that goes "oh, btw,
this reading is nowhere near accurate".

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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>For my requirements, the AP nitrate test kit and the Nutrafin pH kit
>>are very accurate. When used properly, they reflect the conditions I'd
>>expect to see with the variables present. For example:
>
>
> Sure, sometimes they work. The problem is when they don't. It's
> not like there's a little light that comes on that goes "oh, btw,
> this reading is nowhere near accurate".
>
Oh, THAT'S what that light means. I've been wondering for ages! ;-)

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Watercress]

Ok, then explain why I got 0 ppm on a solution of Green Light Stump
Remover? As I said, either the Stump Remover is not KNO3 or the AP
nitrate test sucks. I was ready to blame the Stump Remover until I got
another negative on a diluted solution of Seachem Flourish Nitrogen
solution. According to the label the Flourish solution is suppose to
contain nitrate. Incidentally, the stump remover label stated that it
contains KNO3, it just didn't say whether it was pure KNO3 or not. If
pure KNO3 is suppose to register zero in the AP nitrate test, then it
is pretty much useless for my needs.

The only time the AP nitrate detected nitrate was when I aerated a
diluted solution of lawn fertilizer (Scotts (or Scott) Turf Builder).
The lawn ferilizer contain Urea as I recall. So after several days, I
suppose the Urea was converted into nitrate. Of course this means that
the solution is likely to contain ammonium and nitrate as well.

[Watercress]

Have you done it? I checked the website that maintains MSDS, and can't
find it. Incidentally, according that website MSDS is a volunteer
program. In other words, companies don't have to submit an MSDS.

[kev]

On 13 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Watercress's opinion about...

> Have you done it? I checked the website that maintains MSDS, and can't
> find it. Incidentally, according that website MSDS is a volunteer
> program.

I suspect the website you were at was a 'volunteer' effort.

> In other words, companies don't have to submit an MSDS.
>

Um, yes they do - any company that manufactures, sells, or imports
'chemicals' in the US:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10099
&p_table=STANDARDS


Here's the link to Green Light Stump Remover's MSDS:

http://www.greenlightco.com/products/MSDS/Stump%20Remover.pdf

As Mr. Sexton said, pure KNO3.


kev

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[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
Watercress > wrote:
>Ok, then explain why I got 0 ppm on a solution of Green Light Stump
>Remover?

http://www.google.com/search?pg=q&fmt=.&q=green+light+stump+remover+nitrate&x=0&y=0

Ask for te MSDS safety sheets on it at the point of sale.

Another test is:

Mix 1 tsp of greenlight with 1 tsp if icing sugar.

Light it (outdoors).

If you see a pink flame and lots of smoke then it's (still)
kno3.

Please don't rely on hobby nitrate test kits. They only seem to work
sometimes.


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[Watercress]

It was a long time ago that I researched Scotts Green Sweep that I
chanced upon some MSDS website. It has some plead to manufacture to
submit MSDS for the sake their customers. Anyway, I can't find that
again, but I nevertheless found the following that may explain the
inconsistency between what you stated and that plead on that website.
It follows

From: http://www.msdssearch.com/msdshistory.htm
"Most materials packaged for consumer use are exempt from the
requirements of the Hazard Communication Standard (HCS)."

Anyway, thanks for that Green Light Stump Remover MSDS. I guess that
means that the AP Nitrate test is crap. I dissolved a small amount of
stump remover in water and tested the solution with the nitrate test.
I got 0 ppm. I repeated this at least 3 times.

[Watercress]

Nope, I won't buy another AP nitrate test kit again. There nitite test
kit and ammonium test kit are pretty good though.

[kev]

On 13 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Watercress's opinion
about...

> It was a long time ago that I researched Scotts Green Sweep that I
> chanced upon some MSDS website. It has some plead to manufacture to
> submit MSDS for the sake their customers. Anyway, I can't find that
> again, but I nevertheless found the following that may explain the
> inconsistency between what you stated and that plead on that website.
> It follows
>
> From: http://www.msdssearch.com/msdshistory.htm
> "Most materials packaged for consumer use are exempt from the
> requirements of the Hazard Communication Standard (HCS)."

While consumer products may be exempt, if you dig enough, you'll find a
MSDS for just about anything sold. A quick Google found MSDS sheets for
liquid laundry detergent, cologne and water (yes water -
http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C2957.html)

> Anyway, thanks for that Green Light Stump Remover MSDS. I guess that
> means that the AP Nitrate test is crap. I dissolved a small amount of
> stump remover in water and tested the solution with the nitrate test.
> I got 0 ppm. I repeated this at least 3 times.

Strange, I mixed up a batch of Spectracide brand stump remover (100%
KNO3) at 1 tsp/500ml and tested with my AP kit and got an instant color
change (overkill on the ppm). Perhaps your test kit is old or you didn't
add enough KNO3 to register.


kev


--
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[Watercress]

Nope, added enough. In fact a lot of it. Half a teaspoon in one test
tube.

[Watercress]

I suppose that proves Sexton's point about the sporadic success of the
AP test.

[Watercress]

OK, here is a challenge for you. Find out what is in Flourish Excel.
I dare you! Seriously, I really want to know.

[Watercress]

I don't have icing sugar so I used regular sugar. I made a small loop
with a fine wire, and managed to get some stump remover and sugar
mixture on it. I placed it over a candle flame. Fizz!! The mixture
bursted into flame. Yep, it reminded me of an incidence when I was
younger when I made gun powder with KNO3 from my chemistry set. The
upshot is that the result from the experiment supports the claim the
the stump remover is KNO3.

Wow, first experimenting with microbes to generate CO2, now making
explosive mixtures, this hobby is getting more exciting with every
passing day!

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
Watercress > wrote:
>OK, here is a challenge for you. Find out what is in Flourish Excel.
>I dare you! Seriously, I really want to know.
>

It says right on the label: polycycloglutaracetal.


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[Watercress]

Oops, must have missed it. All that small prints. :) Thanks.

Oh btw, I found an article on the web about Zebra Danios:
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/fishspecies/l/aa060799.htm

"Zebras are particularly susceptible to Oodinium, or Velvet disease.
When purchasing fish avoid any that have clamped fins, or look
emaciated, as they may be infected."

You know that description about the emaciation is consistent with my
observation that they were wasting away. I looked at my surviving
Zebras and all looked fine. I think the disease may have come in with
the Crawfishes that were temporarily in that tank. I suspect that
wasthe case since I did not buy anything for months. Well, either that
or the disease was lying dormant in them.

[Richard Sexton]

In article . com>,
Watercress > wrote:
>Oops, must have missed it. All that small prints. :) Thanks.
>
>Oh btw, I found an article on the web about Zebra Danios:
>http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/fishspecies/l/aa060799.htm
>
>"Zebras are particularly susceptible to Oodinium, or Velvet disease.
>When purchasing fish avoid any that have clamped fins, or look
>emaciated, as they may be infected."
>
>You know that description about the emaciation is consistent with my
>observation that they were wasting away. I looked at my surviving
>Zebras and all looked fine. I think the disease may have come in with
>the Crawfishes that were temporarily in that tank. I suspect that
>wasthe case since I did not buy anything for months. Well, either that
>or the disease was lying dormant in them.
>

Velvet is really east to spot if you shine a flashlight on
them. You'll see very obvious tiny grains of sand looking
dots all over the fish. They're quite small but you'll see
zillions of them like a light disting of icing sugar,
except sand colored.

I use acriflavine but any decent antiparasitic will work. The
but neds light to photosynthesize so even a blackout will cure them.

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[kev]

On 14 Mar 2005, the world was enlightened by Watercress's opinion
about...

> OK, here is a challenge for you. Find out what is in Flourish Excel.
> I dare you! Seriously, I really want to know.
>

What Richard said : polycycloglutaracetal

http://www.seachem.com/home/ProductSpotlight.html


Oh and here's the MSDS: http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS.pdf


kev

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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article . com>,
> Watercress > wrote:
>
>>Oops, must have missed it. All that small prints. :) Thanks.
>>
>>Oh btw, I found an article on the web about Zebra Danios:
>>http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/fishspecies/l/aa060799.htm
>>
>>"Zebras are particularly susceptible to Oodinium, or Velvet disease.
>>When purchasing fish avoid any that have clamped fins, or look
>>emaciated, as they may be infected."
>>
>>You know that description about the emaciation is consistent with my
>>observation that they were wasting away. I looked at my surviving
>>Zebras and all looked fine. I think the disease may have come in with
>>the Crawfishes that were temporarily in that tank. I suspect that
>>wasthe case since I did not buy anything for months. Well, either that
>>or the disease was lying dormant in them.
>>
>
>
> Velvet is really east to spot if you shine a flashlight on
> them. You'll see very obvious tiny grains of sand looking
> dots all over the fish. They're quite small but you'll see
> zillions of them like a light disting of icing sugar,
> except sand colored.
>
> I use acriflavine but any decent antiparasitic will work. The
> but neds light to photosynthesize so even a blackout will cure them.
>
I was just cruising Untergasser and saw that Oodinium can grow inside a
fish's intestine. They only rely partly on photosynthesis so a blackout
isn't a complete cure. Blackout plus antiparasitic is probably ideal.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

>I was just cruising Untergasser and saw that Oodinium can grow inside a
>fish's intestine. They only rely partly on photosynthesis so a blackout

But do they reproduce there? WOuldn't the get expelled and become
free-swimming (then die).

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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>I was just cruising Untergasser and saw that Oodinium can grow inside a
>>fish's intestine. They only rely partly on photosynthesis so a blackout
>
>
> But do they reproduce there? WOuldn't the get expelled and become
> free-swimming (then die).
>
Good point. Have you gotten a full cure with a tank blackout only?
I've never had the misfortune of battling velvet at home (knock wood).
In store tanks were we used formalin/malachite since blackout wasn't
possible in the racks.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Elaine T > wrote:
>Richard Sexton wrote:
>>>I was just cruising Untergasser and saw that Oodinium can grow inside a
>>>fish's intestine. They only rely partly on photosynthesis so a blackout
>>
>>
>> But do they reproduce there? WOuldn't the get expelled and become
>> free-swimming (then die).
>>
>Good point. Have you gotten a full cure with a tank blackout only?
>I've never had the misfortune of battling velvet at home (knock wood).
>In store tanks were we used formalin/malachite since blackout wasn't
>possible in the racks.

I may have tried it but I don't remember. It's too eaisly killed
to worry about really. I rememebr having to battle is 3 times
on about 30 years. Twice on killies - both
Nothobranchiuos (of course) and once now on bettas.
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