Some observations and questions regarding Barbs and sugar in DIY CO2

[Ozdude]

Hi there,

I got my 4 Tiger Barbs this afternoon and they're in the same tank as the 5
BATs I had so much trouble with a while ago - any way there is a pecking
order being established at the moment - inter and intra-species. All the
fish are a similar size and the Tetras are too fast for the Barbs to get
them and vice versa ;)

I've noticed when the Barbs are resting after a chase, a couple of them hang
nose down for a minute. I thought I'd read something a while ago that this
was a possible sign of high Nitrite levels, and I googled around and this is
the case in some people's experience - I checked the Nitrite and it
registered 0, so it wasn't that. I presume this is their resting position?
They wer doing it in the shop too this aftrnoon - If it is just a thing they
do, it's hilarious watching them do it. I also noticed a few minutes ago
they seem to sleep nose down - how strange :)

They also vibrate near each other like some of my Tetras in the big tank do,
so I presume this is mating behaviour?

They've acclimatised very well and I'll move some of the plastic plants out
of the way tomorrow to give them more swimming space than they currently
have, as they seem to have the BATs on the go most of the time ;)

Today I also switched from using raw sugar to white sugar (as an experiment
and because 2kg of white is substantially cheaper than 2kg of raw) and I
pre-mixed up new batch of CO2 ready for the morning. I made it the usual way
with 1tsp yeast and 1 tsp of Baking Soda mixed in water before adding to the
sugar, but I've noticed with the white sugar you get a foaming head that's
much larger then the one you get (if at all) with raw sugar - even with the
baking soda in there as a buffer.

I'm starting to form the opinion that some of the problems that have been
reported with DIY CO2 and foaming pollution of tanks is because the sugar
was white. For some reason it seems more volatile than the raw stuff (less
impurities?).

I'll definitely be watching it when I bi-daily agitate the bottles during
the next cycle - the last thing I want now is the tank to be filled with
alcohol, yeast and sugar ;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Jim Anderson]

In article >, ivsmith11
@hote-mail.com says...
>
> I'm starting to form the opinion that some of the problems that have been
> reported with DIY CO2 and foaming pollution of tanks is because the sugar
> was white. For some reason it seems more volatile than the raw stuff (less
> impurities?).
>
> I'll definitely be watching it when I bi-daily agitate the bottles during
> the next cycle - the last thing I want now is the tank to be filled with
> alcohol, yeast and sugar ;)
>
> Oz
>
>

Last month I got a new 38gallon (36in.x 12in. x 20in. hi) and wanted to
set-up a Planted tank. Found this site for a DIY CO2 system;
<http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html>
Look at the schematic, he has a 'gas seperator' between the yeast and
reactor to trap any foam in the lines.

I built the Powered CO2 Reactor and must say it works great. When I
pinch the CO2 hose I can watch the bubbles disapear in a half second,
completely disolved into the water.

I just use a 1 liter pop bottle plumbed directly to the reactor and have
explosive growth with no algea.

--
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger

[Jim Anderson]

In article >, ivsmith11
@hote-mail.com says...
> [snip]
> Today I also switched from using raw sugar to white sugar (as an experiment
> and because 2kg of white is substantially cheaper than 2kg of raw) and I
> pre-mixed up new batch of CO2 ready for the morning. I made it the usual way
> with 1tsp yeast and 1 tsp of Baking Soda mixed in water before adding to the
> sugar, but I've noticed with the white sugar you get a foaming head that's
> much larger then the one you get (if at all) with raw sugar - even with the
> baking soda in there as a buffer.
> [snip]
> Oz
>
>

the other point I wanted to make is;
There are many recipe opinions online for DIY CO2 at the site I posted
he just uses 1/4 teaspoon of yeast for 2 cups of sugar and I have no
foam problems.

I'm no expert, will watch for others advice.

--
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger

[Gill Passman]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
u...
> Hi there,
>
> I got my 4 Tiger Barbs this afternoon and they're in the same tank as the
5
> BATs I had so much trouble with a while ago - any way there is a pecking
> order being established at the moment - inter and intra-species. All the
> fish are a similar size and the Tetras are too fast for the Barbs to get
> them and vice versa ;)
>
> I've noticed when the Barbs are resting after a chase, a couple of them
hang
> nose down for a minute. I thought I'd read something a while ago that this
> was a possible sign of high Nitrite levels, and I googled around and this
is
> the case in some people's experience - I checked the Nitrite and it
> registered 0, so it wasn't that. I presume this is their resting position?
> They wer doing it in the shop too this aftrnoon - If it is just a thing
they
> do, it's hilarious watching them do it. I also noticed a few minutes ago
> they seem to sleep nose down - how strange :)
>
> They also vibrate near each other like some of my Tetras in the big tank
do,
> so I presume this is mating behaviour?
>
> They've acclimatised very well and I'll move some of the plastic plants
out
> of the way tomorrow to give them more swimming space than they currently
> have, as they seem to have the BATs on the go most of the time ;)
>
> Today I also switched from using raw sugar to white sugar (as an
experiment
> and because 2kg of white is substantially cheaper than 2kg of raw) and I
> pre-mixed up new batch of CO2 ready for the morning. I made it the usual
way
> with 1tsp yeast and 1 tsp of Baking Soda mixed in water before adding to
the
> sugar, but I've noticed with the white sugar you get a foaming head that's
> much larger then the one you get (if at all) with raw sugar - even with
the
> baking soda in there as a buffer.
>
> I'm starting to form the opinion that some of the problems that have been
> reported with DIY CO2 and foaming pollution of tanks is because the sugar
> was white. For some reason it seems more volatile than the raw stuff (less
> impurities?).
>
> I'll definitely be watching it when I bi-daily agitate the bottles during
> the next cycle - the last thing I want now is the tank to be filled with
> alcohol, yeast and sugar ;)
>
> Oz
>
> --
> My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith
>
>
Hi Oz,

What type of Tiger Barbs did you get? I really, really would love some Green
Tiger Barbs but unfortunately have nowhere suitable to house them - the only
tank likely to come free soon is a 5gall which I think is a little too small
(although if anyone wants to contradict me I'd be happy to hear it).....and
I don't think they would mix with the Mbunas (lol) and the Community Tank
can't really cope with anymore - if it could I would go for SAE's for the
algae problem .

Gill

[Tedd Jacobs]

"Ozdude" wrote...
> Hi there,
>
> I got my 4 Tiger Barbs this afternoon and they're in the same tank as the
> 5 BATs I had so much trouble with a while ago - any way there is a pecking
> order being established at the moment - inter and intra-species. All the
> fish are a similar size and the Tetras are too fast for the Barbs to get
> them and vice versa ;)
>
> I've noticed when the Barbs are resting after a chase, a couple of them
> hang nose down for a minute. I thought I'd read something a while ago that
> this was a possible sign of high Nitrite levels, and I googled around and
> this is the case in some people's experience - I checked the Nitrite and
> it registered 0, so it wasn't that. I presume this is their resting
> position? They wer doing it in the shop too this aftrnoon - If it is just
> a thing they do, it's hilarious watching them do it. I also noticed a few
> minutes ago they seem to sleep nose down - how strange :)

tiger barbs go 'nose down' when they are wanting to be "left alone".
reasons for wanting to be left alone can range from "i'm pooped, leave me
alone so i can rest" to "i'm sick/stressed/not feeling well". difference
between the two is how long they remain nose down. yes, barbs will 'sleep'
nose down as well. additionally i have seen barbs run their "chase & tag"
games where one will nip another and run, then stop abruptly and go 'nose
down' telling the other to 'leave me alone' (which it usually will) until it
passes, then it will "tag" it again. a bit of playin' possum comes to mind.
;-)

the greater the degree of incline and the greater the durration, the greater
the likely hood that there is something wrong. barbs are social so if you
catch one staying by itself for long periods nose down, there could be
something wrong.


>
> They also vibrate near each other like some of my Tetras in the big tank
> do, so I presume this is mating behaviour?

this is common for new barbs in a tank. it's part of establishing a pecking
order. this behavior will tapper off as they get settled in and mature.
watch also for the 'nose-to-nose-spinning-around-in-a-circle' dance.

tiger barbs have an complex social system (for lack of a better word)
ranging from a "running with the pack" mentality in which they will kill off
their own if they see one as being too weak to keep up; to a
hyperactive-spastic "heyyouwannafight" with any other fish that looks like
they can have fun with.

>
> They've acclimatised very well [..]

<snip rest>

[Ozdude]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .
> Hi Oz,

Hi.
>
> What type of Tiger Barbs did you get?

1 X Green and 3 X regular.

They need a lot of swimming space, so I'd say a 20L tank is a minimum for
them.

And I don't think they are a good match for Mbuna - similar sized and
temperament fish are their matches.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Gill Passman]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
> .. .
> > Hi Oz,
>
> Hi.
> >
> > What type of Tiger Barbs did you get?
>
> 1 X Green and 3 X regular.
>
> They need a lot of swimming space, so I'd say a 20L tank is a minimum for
> them.
>
> And I don't think they are a good match for Mbuna - similar sized and
> temperament fish are their matches.
>
> Oz
>
> --
> My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith
>
>
Hey Oz,

The Mbuna was a joke...no intention of adding them in there (more Mbuna on
the way)...especially since I am still 0 ammonia and nitrite on the new
tank....I can see a shopping trip again this weekend *grin*

Yeah, your saying what I was thinking on space I think...BTW 20L is the same
as 5g - did you mean 20gall? We've got two Rosy Barb in a 15gall and boy do
they fill the space....they are currently sharing the tank with 3 mollies -
they all seem happy but we're not sure this is what we really want mix wise.
Plus the male is hassling the female a little too much for my lining.
However, it is my son's tank (aged 10) and I'm trying to get him to make the
call rather than influence him too much unless I feel he is too far off the
mark.

Just a bit jealous really....I like the look of these fish...

Gill

[Sarah Navarro]

I have 3 regular tiger barbs and 4 green tiger barbs. My green ones are
pointing nose down a lot. At first I was worried because I had heard that
it could be stress. I have had them several months now and they still do it
all the time. They don't seem at all stressed. I think it's just a normal
thing.

P.S. What is a BAT? Guess I haven't been paying attention.

Sarah


"Ozdude" > wrote in message
u...
> Hi there,
>
> I got my 4 Tiger Barbs this afternoon and they're in the same tank as the
> 5 BATs I had so much trouble with a while ago - any way there is a pecking
> order being established at the moment - inter and intra-species. All the
> fish are a similar size and the Tetras are too fast for the Barbs to get
> them and vice versa ;)
>
> I've noticed when the Barbs are resting after a chase, a couple of them
> hang nose down for a minute. I thought I'd read something a while ago that
> this was a possible sign of high Nitrite levels, and I googled around and
> this is the case in some people's experience - I checked the Nitrite and
> it registered 0, so it wasn't that. I presume this is their resting
> position? They wer doing it in the shop too this aftrnoon - If it is just
> a thing they do, it's hilarious watching them do it. I also noticed a few
> minutes ago they seem to sleep nose down - how strange :)
>

[Tedd Jacobs]

"Sarah Navarro" wrote...
>I have 3 regular tiger barbs and 4 green tiger barbs. My green ones are
>pointing nose down a lot. At first I was worried because I had heard that
>it could be stress. I have had them several months now and they still do
>it all the time. They don't seem at all stressed. I think it's just a
>normal thing.

a very possible scenerio for this is that your regular tigers, which tend to
be slightly larger, stronger, and more agressive, keep the greenies
perpetually tired out from all the pecking and running around that is
constant with tigers. more than likely what may end up happening is you'll
have two groups of barbs, the regs and the greenies. in which case the
regular tigers will one-by-one pick off the weaker greenies. the only
reasons being that i.) in nature the regular tigers are the dominant over
the recessive greens, ii.) in a group with a (moderatly) even mix of regs
to greens over 6, the groups tend to split into their respective types
creating a "competition for survival" (large groups of same types will also
split into smaller groups and compete/battle for dominance), and iii.)
tigers are will kill their own if they percieve a weakness in one or more
individuals of the group (self-culling if you were). this isnt to mean that
it is going to happen in the next day, week, or month (or even year), but
over time it is more likely than not to occur. there are certainly
exceptions to all of these reasons based upon the environment they are
kept(*1). this is just what i have learned from my own experience with
tigers and from others who have had the same experiences and made like
observations over time and documented them here.


(*1) environments is used here as an all encompassing, broadly based,
generalized term to include anything and everything that anyone can think of
that might concievebly cause an exception. (exceptions have a way of making
'know-it-alls' look like idiots) ;^)

[...]

[Ozdude]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .


Yep... 20GAL not Litres - duh! :) sorry.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Ozdude]

"Sarah Navarro" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>I have 3 regular tiger barbs and 4 green tiger barbs. My green ones are
>pointing nose down a lot. At first I was worried because I had heard that
>it could be stress. I have had them several months now and they still do
>it all the time. They don't seem at all stressed. I think it's just a
>normal thing.
>
> P.S. What is a BAT? Guess I haven't been paying attention.
>
BAT= Buenos Aires Tetra
;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Gill Passman]

"Ozdude" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
> .. .
>
>
> Yep... 20GAL not Litres - duh! :) sorry.
>
> Oz
>
> --
> My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith
>
>
hmmm...so the question is how can I smuggle in a 20g tank (he,he)....might
be some time off....I got the 50gall tank in for the Mbunas but methinks he
might notice another one and I'm not sure where I would put it...plus it has
to be said I'm working on getting a hex tank (inspired by Elaine - *grin*
thx Elaine - showed him the pics - he's almost biting) afterall it's
prettier than a table lamp (lol) and if I am going to get some SAE's for the
"community tank" I need to relocate someone - thinking of the guppies.
Shame...I love the Green Barbs...maybe one day.

Hey, but I still have the 5g to sort......after reading recent threads I'm
thinking maybe a betta and as my son won't let me steal his there might be
another fish on the way :-)

I think one of the problems is that there are so many wonderful fish out
there....which maybe isn't a problem really but when it comes to the
physical limitations of locating/buying tanks it is....

Good luck with your choice - I hope it works out well for you

Gill

[Ozdude]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .
> I think one of the problems is that there are so many wonderful fish out
> there....which maybe isn't a problem really but when it comes to the
> physical limitations of locating/buying tanks it is....
>
> Good luck with your choice - I hope it works out well for you

I have a slight physical space problem for placing tanks in the room, but
I'll tell you what really limits me - the cost of electricity and water!
Yes, utility prices.

I just changed to a canister filter that consumes 20W, add 10W for the
power-head (circulation) and you have 30W, 24 hours a day. Then 72W of
lighting comes on for half that time, so for at least half a day my big tank
consumes 100W (102W) - add another 200W if both heaters come on and you have
300W max for one tank.

The litttle cube takes 2W for it's pump and 9W for it's light, but also has
a 100W heater in it - 111W - both tanks with heaters and lights on - 413W
max - which is quite costly given the prices of electricity and water here.

So you see, it's actually the economics that stops me, not spouses ;)

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith