Re: substrate question

[Chris Gentry]

"Quiet Reef" > wrote in message
...
> Hi there:
>
> Do any of you think it would be possible to use tiny glass beads 1-2mm
> in the substrate? They would be inert, wouldn't they?
>
> Thanks,
> quietreef

I'm sure you could use this as a substrate, but I think it would only be for
your viewing pleasure. You might do some research on grain sizes of Deep
Sand Beds (DSB) to find out if this would work at denitrification. Also you
wouldn't get any buffering capabilities for your system. I'm also not sure
if detrivores would burrow into glass beads, so it might be a problem
keeping it clean.

Those are just my thoughts. I don't have any real research to back it up.
I did use glass marbles for freshwater fish breeding at one time, and glass
is inert, and won't harm the fish. It is my opinion that you should use an
aragonite sand, and if you don't want to pay a fortune for it, try looking
for southdown/yardright/old castle brand sand at home depot, or your local
landscaping companies. Yard right sand is sold as Tropical Play Sand at
some of these places. If you can't find that, I would at least go with a
decent silica based sand. I do have to say though, that there is debate on
whether silica based sand is good for your tanks, but so far all the
research I have done, has led me to believe that this is all bunk, and it is
ok for your tank. But only you can make that decision. -Chris

[Rich R]

I tried the home depot brands,NOT GOOD!! If your going to do a DSB you
should do it right from the beginning or you will get hell,,,Its what helps
support the system and unless you have 20 cent minnows in the tank I would
not mess with the proven way.Trust me I tried

--


www.reeftanksonline.com
www.nydiver.com
ONLINE meeting rooms



"Chris Gentry" > wrote in message
news:N_p_d.145516$tl3.49247@attbi_s02...
>
> "Quiet Reef" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi there:
>>
>> Do any of you think it would be possible to use tiny glass beads 1-2mm
>> in the substrate? They would be inert, wouldn't they?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> quietreef
>
> I'm sure you could use this as a substrate, but I think it would only be
> for
> your viewing pleasure. You might do some research on grain sizes of Deep
> Sand Beds (DSB) to find out if this would work at denitrification. Also
> you
> wouldn't get any buffering capabilities for your system. I'm also not
> sure
> if detrivores would burrow into glass beads, so it might be a problem
> keeping it clean.
>
> Those are just my thoughts. I don't have any real research to back it up.
> I did use glass marbles for freshwater fish breeding at one time, and
> glass
> is inert, and won't harm the fish. It is my opinion that you should use an
> aragonite sand, and if you don't want to pay a fortune for it, try looking
> for southdown/yardright/old castle brand sand at home depot, or your local
> landscaping companies. Yard right sand is sold as Tropical Play Sand at
> some of these places. If you can't find that, I would at least go with a
> decent silica based sand. I do have to say though, that there is debate
> on
> whether silica based sand is good for your tanks, but so far all the
> research I have done, has led me to believe that this is all bunk, and it
> is
> ok for your tank. But only you can make that decision. -Chris
>
>
>

[John Cassara]

I have 75lbs of the Home Depot "Tropical Play Sand" in my reef tank. It is
full of critters, it stays milk white, the fish, snails etc all play in it
and it has the gas bubbles evident of denitrification. I did not even seed
it with live sand from LFS! So what's wrong with it in your opinion?

John

"Rich R" > wrote in message
...
>I tried the home depot brands,NOT GOOD!! If your going to do a DSB you
>should do it right from the beginning or you will get hell,,,Its what helps
>support the system and unless you have 20 cent minnows in the tank I would
>not mess with the proven way.Trust me I tried
>
> --
>
>
> www.reeftanksonline.com
> www.nydiver.com
> ONLINE meeting rooms
>
>
>
> "Chris Gentry" > wrote in message
> news:N_p_d.145516$tl3.49247@attbi_s02...
>>
>> "Quiet Reef" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi there:
>>>
>>> Do any of you think it would be possible to use tiny glass beads 1-2mm
>>> in the substrate? They would be inert, wouldn't they?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> quietreef
>>
>> I'm sure you could use this as a substrate, but I think it would only be
>> for
>> your viewing pleasure. You might do some research on grain sizes of Deep
>> Sand Beds (DSB) to find out if this would work at denitrification. Also
>> you
>> wouldn't get any buffering capabilities for your system. I'm also not
>> sure
>> if detrivores would burrow into glass beads, so it might be a problem
>> keeping it clean.
>>
>> Those are just my thoughts. I don't have any real research to back it
>> up.
>> I did use glass marbles for freshwater fish breeding at one time, and
>> glass
>> is inert, and won't harm the fish. It is my opinion that you should use
>> an
>> aragonite sand, and if you don't want to pay a fortune for it, try
>> looking
>> for southdown/yardright/old castle brand sand at home depot, or your
>> local
>> landscaping companies. Yard right sand is sold as Tropical Play Sand at
>> some of these places. If you can't find that, I would at least go with a
>> decent silica based sand. I do have to say though, that there is debate
>> on
>> whether silica based sand is good for your tanks, but so far all the
>> research I have done, has led me to believe that this is all bunk, and it
>> is
>> ok for your tank. But only you can make that decision. -Chris
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Chris Gentry]

"Rich R" > wrote in message
...
> I tried the home depot brands,NOT GOOD!!


Was this silica based? Or was it the actual tropical play sand?

[RicSeyler]

Some people have heard about Southdown Sand at Home Depot
and inadvertently bought the regular ole silica, very very dirty
construction
sand not knowing the difference at purchase, thinking they have bought
what they heard about (Southdown)......

John Cassara wrote:

>I have 75lbs of the Home Depot "Tropical Play Sand" in my reef tank. It is
>full of critters, it stays milk white, the fish, snails etc all play in it
>and it has the gas bubbles evident of denitrification. I did not even seed
>it with live sand from LFS! So what's wrong with it in your opinion?
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[Rich R]

Its a MUDDY mess at first ,,,Their texture isn't suitable for sand bed
creatures, they seem to release silicates into the water, and also contain
various other minerals that aren't good for your tank ...its your tank
,,,what ever works for you man

--


www.reeftanksonline.com
www.nydiver.com
ONLINE meeting rooms



"John Cassara" > wrote in message
...
>I have 75lbs of the Home Depot "Tropical Play Sand" in my reef tank. It is
>full of critters, it stays milk white, the fish, snails etc all play in it
>and it has the gas bubbles evident of denitrification. I did not even seed
>it with live sand from LFS! So what's wrong with it in your opinion?
>
> John
>
> "Rich R" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I tried the home depot brands,NOT GOOD!! If your going to do a DSB you
>>should do it right from the beginning or you will get hell,,,Its what
>>helps support the system and unless you have 20 cent minnows in the tank I
>>would not mess with the proven way.Trust me I tried
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> www.reeftanksonline.com
>> www.nydiver.com
>> ONLINE meeting rooms
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris Gentry" > wrote in message
>> news:N_p_d.145516$tl3.49247@attbi_s02...
>>>
>>> "Quiet Reef" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Hi there:
>>>>
>>>> Do any of you think it would be possible to use tiny glass beads 1-2mm
>>>> in the substrate? They would be inert, wouldn't they?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> quietreef
>>>
>>> I'm sure you could use this as a substrate, but I think it would only be
>>> for
>>> your viewing pleasure. You might do some research on grain sizes of
>>> Deep
>>> Sand Beds (DSB) to find out if this would work at denitrification. Also
>>> you
>>> wouldn't get any buffering capabilities for your system. I'm also not
>>> sure
>>> if detrivores would burrow into glass beads, so it might be a problem
>>> keeping it clean.
>>>
>>> Those are just my thoughts. I don't have any real research to back it
>>> up.
>>> I did use glass marbles for freshwater fish breeding at one time, and
>>> glass
>>> is inert, and won't harm the fish. It is my opinion that you should use
>>> an
>>> aragonite sand, and if you don't want to pay a fortune for it, try
>>> looking
>>> for southdown/yardright/old castle brand sand at home depot, or your
>>> local
>>> landscaping companies. Yard right sand is sold as Tropical Play Sand at
>>> some of these places. If you can't find that, I would at least go with
>>> a
>>> decent silica based sand. I do have to say though, that there is debate
>>> on
>>> whether silica based sand is good for your tanks, but so far all the
>>> research I have done, has led me to believe that this is all bunk, and
>>> it is
>>> ok for your tank. But only you can make that decision. -Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[RicSeyler]

Yes, Southdown gets very milky, but as soon as the bacteria starts
taking over
it settles out. And that very fine texture is beneficial to a DSB.
Southdown isn't
silica sand it's calcium based, so it can't release silica into your
tank, and Southdown
is absolutely the proper grain shape for sandbed creatures.

Sounds like you did what I described in my previous post in this thread.
Bought the wrong stuff.........

It is wise to screen Southdown for any foreign particles or objects.
As it's not intended for reef tanks and could have foreign debris in it.

Rich R wrote:

>Its a MUDDY mess at first ,,,Their texture isn't suitable for sand bed
>creatures, they seem to release silicates into the water, and also contain
>various other minerals that aren't good for your tank ...its your tank
>,,,what ever works for you man
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[Rich R]

yes problem got the wrong stuff,,,, I just think when you spend 1000 bucks
on stuff in your tank why would I put play sand that is not made for my
tank....Its not that I disagree with you. I just would not do it

--


www.reeftanksonline.com
www.nydiver.com
ONLINE meeting rooms



"RicSeyler" > wrote in message
. ..
> Yes, Southdown gets very milky, but as soon as the bacteria starts taking
> over
> it settles out. And that very fine texture is beneficial to a DSB.
> Southdown isn't
> silica sand it's calcium based, so it can't release silica into your tank,
> and Southdown
> is absolutely the proper grain shape for sandbed creatures.
>
> Sounds like you did what I described in my previous post in this thread.
> Bought the wrong stuff.........
>
> It is wise to screen Southdown for any foreign particles or objects.
> As it's not intended for reef tanks and could have foreign debris in it.
>
> Rich R wrote:
>
>>Its a MUDDY mess at first ,,,Their texture isn't suitable for sand bed
>>creatures, they seem to release silicates into the water, and also contain
>>various other minerals that aren't good for your tank ...its your tank
>>,,,what ever works for you man
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ric Seyler
>
>
>

[John Maag]

Rich, I am pretty sure it is the same stuff you are paying for. I have
CaribSea also but because I could not find the "Play Sand".

When I started putting together the costs for a DSb for a 200G aquarium
CaribSea the cost of the samd started coming in at $400. At that cost, play
sand looks better except that I cannot find it except on Ebay for the same
cost as CaribSea.


"Rich R" > wrote in message
...
> yes problem got the wrong stuff,,,, I just think when you spend 1000 bucks
> on stuff in your tank why would I put play sand that is not made for my
> tank....Its not that I disagree with you. I just would not do it
>
> --
>
>
> www.reeftanksonline.com
> www.nydiver.com
> ONLINE meeting rooms
>
>
>
> "RicSeyler" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Yes, Southdown gets very milky, but as soon as the bacteria starts taking
>> over
>> it settles out. And that very fine texture is beneficial to a DSB.
>> Southdown isn't
>> silica sand it's calcium based, so it can't release silica into your
>> tank, and Southdown
>> is absolutely the proper grain shape for sandbed creatures.
>>
>> Sounds like you did what I described in my previous post in this thread.
>> Bought the wrong stuff.........
>>
>> It is wise to screen Southdown for any foreign particles or objects.
>> As it's not intended for reef tanks and could have foreign debris in it.
>>
>> Rich R wrote:
>>
>>>Its a MUDDY mess at first ,,,Their texture isn't suitable for sand bed
>>>creatures, they seem to release silicates into the water, and also
>>>contain various other minerals that aren't good for your tank ...its your
>>>tank ,,,what ever works for you man
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ric Seyler
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[kryppy]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:10:04 GMT, Quiet Reef >
wrote:

>Hi there:
>
>Do any of you think it would be possible to use tiny glass beads 1-2mm
>in the substrate? They would be inert, wouldn't they?


They will work. I've seen it before. I've been thinking of trying dry,
dead beach sand...once I sift the cigarette butts and other tourist
trash from it.

[RicSeyler]

A year or so ago there was a big run on Southdown. Back then you could
talk some of the Home Depot managers to order some in for you. As it wasn't
distributed to all Home Depot outlets. Then the rumor goes that Home Depot
caught wind that the Southdown was being used for reef tanks and told
managers
not to order in the sand. And there were even rumors that if a Home
Depot manager
found out it was being purchased for reef tanks, they would refuse to
sell it to the customer,
per Home Depot instructions.

John Maag wrote:

>Rich, I am pretty sure it is the same stuff you are paying for. I have
>CaribSea also but because I could not find the "Play Sand".
>
>When I started putting together the costs for a DSb for a 200G aquarium
>CaribSea the cost of the samd started coming in at $400. At that cost, play
>sand looks better except that I cannot find it except on Ebay for the same
>cost as CaribSea.
>
>
>"Rich R" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>yes problem got the wrong stuff,,,, I just think when you spend 1000 bucks
>>on stuff in your tank why would I put play sand that is not made for my
>>tank....Its not that I disagree with you. I just would not do it
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>www.reeftanksonline.com
>>www.nydiver.com
>>ONLINE meeting rooms
>>
>>
>>
>>"RicSeyler" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>
>>>Yes, Southdown gets very milky, but as soon as the bacteria starts taking
>>>over
>>>it settles out. And that very fine texture is beneficial to a DSB.
>>>Southdown isn't
>>>silica sand it's calcium based, so it can't release silica into your
>>>tank, and Southdown
>>>is absolutely the proper grain shape for sandbed creatures.
>>>
>>>Sounds like you did what I described in my previous post in this thread.
>>>Bought the wrong stuff.........
>>>
>>>It is wise to screen Southdown for any foreign particles or objects.
>>>As it's not intended for reef tanks and could have foreign debris in it.
>>>
>>>Rich R wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Its a MUDDY mess at first ,,,Their texture isn't suitable for sand bed
>>>>creatures, they seem to release silicates into the water, and also
>>>>contain various other minerals that aren't good for your tank ...its your
>>>>tank ,,,what ever works for you man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>Ric Seyler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[RicSeyler]

I hear what your saying, but cal based sand, is cal based sand...
And MUCH cheaper than Caribsea. Just had to make sure there
was no foreign objects in it.

Rich R wrote:

>yes problem got the wrong stuff,,,, I just think when you spend 1000 bucks
>on stuff in your tank why would I put play sand that is not made for my
>tank....Its not that I disagree with you. I just would not do it
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[John Maag]

Is cal calcium or California. What do you use if not CaribSea aand
Southdown?

"RicSeyler" > wrote in message
.. .
>I hear what your saying, but cal based sand, is cal based sand...
> And MUCH cheaper than Caribsea. Just had to make sure there
> was no foreign objects in it.
>
> Rich R wrote:
>
>>yes problem got the wrong stuff,,,, I just think when you spend 1000 bucks
>>on stuff in your tank why would I put play sand that is not made for my
>>tank....Its not that I disagree with you. I just would not do it
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ric Seyler
>
>

[RicSeyler]

Yea, Calcium based -vs- silica based.

You are just about limited to CaribSea or if your lucky to live
in an area where Home Depot happens to stock Southdown.
CaribSea has a pretty big slice of the market.

A friend of mine bought a Train Car Load of sand from the
Caribbean supplier of SouthDown and sold it off as AcroTech Reef Sand.

He had access to a loading dock and Magnet/Screeners.

I sold off a few pallets of it in my area. It was really nice stuff
and sold it for half the price of CaribSea. So everyone was happy :-)
The area Home Depots wouldn't stock SouthDown.

Now some Pros use silica sand and report no ill effects.
My island is completely pure white sugar sand but it's Silica based
(Santa Rosa Island)
But I went with CAL based sand for my SPS tank. But I used my "Yard" for
the Nano tank :-)



John Maag wrote:

>Is cal calcium or California. What do you use if not CaribSea aand
>Southdown?
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler