koi and catfish

[Priscilla McCullough]

I was just wondering how cold catfish can take water?
A friend of mine lives in South Jersey and wanted to get a couple albino
catfish to put with his koi.
Can they tolerate S.Jersey's winters?
Priss

[George]

"Priscilla McCullough" > wrote in message
...
>I was just wondering how cold catfish can take water?
> A friend of mine lives in South Jersey and wanted to get a couple albino
> catfish to put with his koi.
> Can they tolerate S.Jersey's winters?
> Priss

It just so happens that I have a large albino channel cat (over 30" - about 10
lbs) living in my koi pond, which also has koi, goldfish, and shubukins. They
get along fine, although I suspect if I had more than one catfish, this would
not be the case. I got the shubukins, two goldfish and four koi at the same
time that I got the catfish. They've been through two winters just fine. Of
course, here it takes a really cold winter for the ponds and streams to freeze
over. This winter I only had a very small amount of ice at the far end of the
pond. I use a de-icer, which seems to work for my region.

Catfish generally go domant in winter and as long as your pond is deep enough to
prevent it from freezing completely, and you keep a hole in the ice for air
exchange, they should be ok. They usually stop eating when the water gets about
50 degrees F. This is normal behavior. However, my sister lives on Martha's
Vineyard, and she said that their pond (fortunately, no fish) froze completely
this winter, so you should check to see what is the maximum frost line in your
region and plan to build your pond at least 6" deeper, if not a foot or more.
The frost line here in Kentucky is 22" down. My pond is 27" below ground, and
18" above. It is in an high fence-enclosed patio area that is sheltered from
strong winds.

I have three sets of goldfish. The first set I bought with the 4 koi and 2
shubukans about (a large female and a smaller, white and gold calico male) three
years ago. The second set were bought as feeder goldfish for the catfish. I
bought 12, but he only ate four, and then left the others alone. He hasn't
eaten any since. I guess he didn't like the taste. He eats catfish pellets
with zeal, and relishes peel and eat shrimp on occasion (when the price is
right). The third set (eight in all) of goldfish were born last year and raised
in the pond. The catfish doesn't bother any of them, despite the fact that he
is plenty large enough to do serious damage. In fact, when I feed the fish, I
put koi sticks at one end of the pond, and catfish pellets in the other. It
usually takes the catfish a few minutes to decide to come up and eat. In the
mean time, the other fish will have finished eating their food and come to the
other end to check out the catfish food. Then the catfish will come up and
gently nudge them out of the way. Since he is now much bigger, it will be
interesting to see how he responds to the others when the water gets up to
summer temps. So far there have been no major battles between the catfish and
the other fish. In fact, he is so tame, I can feed him shrimp by hand.

Here is what he looked like early last fall. All the fish have grown since this
was taken, but most especially the catfish and the orange metalic koi you see in
the picture:

http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/100_0612.JPG

Warning!!! Channel cats are generally aggressive, so your friend may not have
the same fortune that I have had. If you raise them as fingerlings together
with larger fish (which is what I did), they generally do well, and are well
behaved. If you introduce a large catfish into a pond with other, much smaller
fish, those small fish will likely disappear. Never put an adult wild catfish
in your pond, unless you are planning on killing nearly everything in the pond.
And since you live in New Jersey, I would difinitely make early plans for the
winter. If the pond is deep enough, and you keep it aerated and an open hole in
any ice that forms, they should be ok.

[George]

"Priscilla McCullough" > wrote in message
...
>I was just wondering how cold catfish can take water?
> A friend of mine lives in South Jersey and wanted to get a couple albino
> catfish to put with his koi.
> Can they tolerate S.Jersey's winters?
> Priss

It just so happens that I have a large albino channel cat (over 30" - about 10
lbs) living in my koi pond, which also has koi, goldfish, and shubukins. They
get along fine, although I suspect if I had more than one catfish, this would
not be the case. I got the shubukins, two goldfish and four koi at the same
time that I got the catfish. They've been through two winters just fine. Of
course, here it takes a really cold winter for the ponds and streams to freeze
over. This winter I only had a very small amount of ice at the far end of the
pond. I use a de-icer, which seems to work for my region.

Catfish generally go domant in winter and as long as your pond is deep enough to
prevent it from freezing completely, and you keep a hole in the ice for air
exchange, they should be ok. They usually stop eating when the water gets about
50 degrees F. This is normal behavior. However, my sister lives on Martha's
Vineyard, and she said that their pond (fortunately, no fish) froze completely
this winter, so you should check to see what is the maximum frost line in your
region and plan to build your pond at least 6" deeper, if not a foot or more.
The frost line here in Kentucky is 22" down. My pond is 27" below ground, and
18" above. It is in an high fence-enclosed patio area that is sheltered from
strong winds.

I have three sets of goldfish. The first set I bought with the 4 koi and 2
shubukans about (a large female and a smaller, white and gold calico male) three
years ago. The second set were bought as feeder goldfish for the catfish. I
bought 12, but he only ate four, and then left the others alone. He hasn't
eaten any since. I guess he didn't like the taste. He eats catfish pellets
with zeal, and relishes peel and eat shrimp on occasion (when the price is
right). The third set (eight in all) of goldfish were born last year and raised
in the pond. The catfish doesn't bother any of them, despite the fact that he
is plenty large enough to do serious damage. In fact, when I feed the fish, I
put koi sticks at one end of the pond, and catfish pellets in the other. It
usually takes the catfish a few minutes to decide to come up and eat. In the
mean time, the other fish will have finished eating their food and come to the
other end to check out the catfish food. Then the catfish will come up and
gently nudge them out of the way. Since he is now much bigger, it will be
interesting to see how he responds to the others when the water gets up to
summer temps. So far there have been no major battles between the catfish and
the other fish. In fact, he is so tame, I can feed him shrimp by hand.

Here is what he looked like early last fall. All the fish have grown since this
was taken, but most especially the catfish and the orange metalic koi you see in
the picture:

http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/100_0612.JPG

Warning!!! Channel cats are generally aggressive, so your friend may not have
the same fortune that I have had. If you raise them as fingerlings together
with larger fish (which is what I did), they generally do well, and are well
behaved. If you introduce a large catfish into a pond with other, much smaller
fish, those small fish will likely disappear. Never put an adult wild catfish
in your pond, unless you are planning on killing nearly everything in the pond.
And since you live in New Jersey, I would difinitely make early plans for the
winter. If the pond is deep enough, and you keep it aerated and an open hole in
any ice that forms, they should be ok.

[Priscilla McCullough]

Thanks for the info George.
I'll pass this along to them.
Priss

"George" > wrote in message
news:EEg0e.98870$Ze3.80086@attbi_s51...
>
> "Priscilla McCullough" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I was just wondering how cold catfish can take water?
>> A friend of mine lives in South Jersey and wanted to get a couple albino
>> catfish to put with his koi.
>> Can they tolerate S.Jersey's winters?
>> Priss
>
> It just so happens that I have a large albino channel cat (over 30" -
> about 10
> lbs) living in my koi pond, which also has koi, goldfish, and shubukins.
> They
> get along fine, although I suspect if I had more than one catfish, this
> would
> not be the case. I got the shubukins, two goldfish and four koi at the
> same
> time that I got the catfish. They've been through two winters just fine.
> Of
> course, here it takes a really cold winter for the ponds and streams to
> freeze
> over. This winter I only had a very small amount of ice at the far end of
> the
> pond. I use a de-icer, which seems to work for my region.
>
> Catfish generally go domant in winter and as long as your pond is deep
> enough to
> prevent it from freezing completely, and you keep a hole in the ice for
> air
> exchange, they should be ok. They usually stop eating when the water gets
> about
> 50 degrees F. This is normal behavior. However, my sister lives on
> Martha's
> Vineyard, and she said that their pond (fortunately, no fish) froze
> completely
> this winter, so you should check to see what is the maximum frost line in
> your
> region and plan to build your pond at least 6" deeper, if not a foot or
> more.
> The frost line here in Kentucky is 22" down. My pond is 27" below ground,
> and
> 18" above. It is in an high fence-enclosed patio area that is sheltered
> from
> strong winds.
>
> I have three sets of goldfish. The first set I bought with the 4 koi and
> 2
> shubukans about (a large female and a smaller, white and gold calico male)
> three
> years ago. The second set were bought as feeder goldfish for the catfish.
> I
> bought 12, but he only ate four, and then left the others alone. He
> hasn't
> eaten any since. I guess he didn't like the taste. He eats catfish
> pellets
> with zeal, and relishes peel and eat shrimp on occasion (when the price is
> right). The third set (eight in all) of goldfish were born last year and
> raised
> in the pond. The catfish doesn't bother any of them, despite the fact
> that he
> is plenty large enough to do serious damage. In fact, when I feed the
> fish, I
> put koi sticks at one end of the pond, and catfish pellets in the other.
> It
> usually takes the catfish a few minutes to decide to come up and eat. In
> the
> mean time, the other fish will have finished eating their food and come to
> the
> other end to check out the catfish food. Then the catfish will come up and
> gently nudge them out of the way. Since he is now much bigger, it will be
> interesting to see how he responds to the others when the water gets up to
> summer temps. So far there have been no major battles between the catfish
> and
> the other fish. In fact, he is so tame, I can feed him shrimp by hand.
>
> Here is what he looked like early last fall. All the fish have grown
> since this
> was taken, but most especially the catfish and the orange metalic koi you
> see in
> the picture:
>
> http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/100_0612.JPG
>
> Warning!!! Channel cats are generally aggressive, so your friend may not
> have
> the same fortune that I have had. If you raise them as fingerlings
> together
> with larger fish (which is what I did), they generally do well, and are
> well
> behaved. If you introduce a large catfish into a pond with other, much
> smaller
> fish, those small fish will likely disappear. Never put an adult wild
> catfish
> in your pond, unless you are planning on killing nearly everything in the
> pond.
> And since you live in New Jersey, I would difinitely make early plans for
> the
> winter. If the pond is deep enough, and you keep it aerated and an open
> hole in
> any ice that forms, they should be ok.
>
>
>

[George]

"Priscilla McCullough" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the info George.
> I'll pass this along to them.
> Priss

Glad I could help. One more thing. These albinos are susceptible to skin
diseases, and other diseases, so watch how they are handled, watch for red
blotches on the skin, and especially watch for extreme redness in their mouths.
If you see these symptoms and the fish has stopped eating even though the water
temperature is warm, then they are sick and need to be isolated for up to three
weeks in a large tub. Change the water frequently, and watch that the pH is
stable and not too alkaline. Raise the water temperature a few degrees and
begine a course of antibiotics for at least three weeks. Once the red blothes
are gone and the redness in the mouth and around the gills clears up, you should
be able to reintroduce the fish into the pon again. Just slowly replace the tub
water with pond water, and then let him go. Usually keeping the ph below 7.4
will help these fish a lot. Good luck.

> "George" > wrote in message
> news:EEg0e.98870$Ze3.80086@attbi_s51...
>>
>> "Priscilla McCullough" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I was just wondering how cold catfish can take water?
>>> A friend of mine lives in South Jersey and wanted to get a couple albino
>>> catfish to put with his koi.
>>> Can they tolerate S.Jersey's winters?
>>> Priss
>>
>> It just so happens that I have a large albino channel cat (over 30" - about
>> 10
>> lbs) living in my koi pond, which also has koi, goldfish, and shubukins. They
>> get along fine, although I suspect if I had more than one catfish, this would
>> not be the case. I got the shubukins, two goldfish and four koi at the same
>> time that I got the catfish. They've been through two winters just fine. Of
>> course, here it takes a really cold winter for the ponds and streams to
>> freeze
>> over. This winter I only had a very small amount of ice at the far end of the
>> pond. I use a de-icer, which seems to work for my region.
>>
>> Catfish generally go domant in winter and as long as your pond is deep enough
>> to
>> prevent it from freezing completely, and you keep a hole in the ice for air
>> exchange, they should be ok. They usually stop eating when the water gets
>> about
>> 50 degrees F. This is normal behavior. However, my sister lives on Martha's
>> Vineyard, and she said that their pond (fortunately, no fish) froze
>> completely
>> this winter, so you should check to see what is the maximum frost line in
>> your
>> region and plan to build your pond at least 6" deeper, if not a foot or more.
>> The frost line here in Kentucky is 22" down. My pond is 27" below ground,
>> and
>> 18" above. It is in an high fence-enclosed patio area that is sheltered from
>> strong winds.
>>
>> I have three sets of goldfish. The first set I bought with the 4 koi and 2
>> shubukans about (a large female and a smaller, white and gold calico male)
>> three
>> years ago. The second set were bought as feeder goldfish for the catfish. I
>> bought 12, but he only ate four, and then left the others alone. He hasn't
>> eaten any since. I guess he didn't like the taste. He eats catfish pellets
>> with zeal, and relishes peel and eat shrimp on occasion (when the price is
>> right). The third set (eight in all) of goldfish were born last year and
>> raised
>> in the pond. The catfish doesn't bother any of them, despite the fact that
>> he
>> is plenty large enough to do serious damage. In fact, when I feed the fish,
>> I
>> put koi sticks at one end of the pond, and catfish pellets in the other. It
>> usually takes the catfish a few minutes to decide to come up and eat. In the
>> mean time, the other fish will have finished eating their food and come to
>> the
>> other end to check out the catfish food. Then the catfish will come up and
>> gently nudge them out of the way. Since he is now much bigger, it will be
>> interesting to see how he responds to the others when the water gets up to
>> summer temps. So far there have been no major battles between the catfish
>> and
>> the other fish. In fact, he is so tame, I can feed him shrimp by hand.
>>
>> Here is what he looked like early last fall. All the fish have grown since
>> this
>> was taken, but most especially the catfish and the orange metalic koi you see
>> in
>> the picture:
>>
>> http://home.insightbb.com/~jryates/100_0612.JPG
>>
>> Warning!!! Channel cats are generally aggressive, so your friend may not
>> have
>> the same fortune that I have had. If you raise them as fingerlings together
>> with larger fish (which is what I did), they generally do well, and are well
>> behaved. If you introduce a large catfish into a pond with other, much
>> smaller
>> fish, those small fish will likely disappear. Never put an adult wild
>> catfish
>> in your pond, unless you are planning on killing nearly everything in the
>> pond.
>> And since you live in New Jersey, I would difinitely make early plans for the
>> winter. If the pond is deep enough, and you keep it aerated and an open hole
>> in
>> any ice that forms, they should be ok.
>>
>>
>>
>
>