pima fix safe for apple snails?

[blue sky]

Hi
I was thinking and after reading the bottle, Pimafix says its safe for
everything except scaless fish...
but what about snails??

No one is sick....the two sides of my brain are just debating...

--
See my beautiful fish at:
http://www.petfish.net/gallery/Starfish

[CanadianCray]

It should be safe for snails. I've used it & melafix for crayfish & shrimp
before. Usually whatever effects a snail effects other crustaceans aswell.

"blue sky" > wrote in message
...
> Hi
> I was thinking and after reading the bottle, Pimafix says its safe for
> everything except scaless fish...
> but what about snails??
>
> No one is sick....the two sides of my brain are just debating...
>
> --
> See my beautiful fish at:
> http://www.petfish.net/gallery/Starfish
>

[Elaine T]

CanadianCray wrote:
> It should be safe for snails. I've used it & melafix for crayfish & shrimp
> before. Usually whatever effects a snail effects other crustaceans aswell.
>
I hate to nitpick but snails aren't crustaceans. They're molluscs. I'm
not sure drawing conclusions from crayfish and shrimp is necessarily
predictive for snails.

> "blue sky" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hi
>>I was thinking and after reading the bottle, Pimafix says its safe for
>>everything except scaless fish...
>>but what about snails??
>>
>>No one is sick....the two sides of my brain are just debating...
>>
--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "CanadianCray" > Spake Unto All:

>It should be safe for snails. I've used it & melafix for crayfish & shrimp
>before. Usually whatever effects a snail effects other crustaceans aswell.

Not at all.

Formalin or peroxide or flubenol will easily kill snails, while
crayfish and shrimp are more resistant than fish - because they have a
thick armor the medication can not penetrate.

I'd instead put it as that any medication which is effective against
external parasites is likely to kill snails.

Regarding Pima fix they don't list any active ingredient, so I have no
idea if it's effective or against what.

[blue sky]

Actually, pimafix does state the ingredients...its1% pimenta racemosa (Bay
leaf oil)
"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> Thusly "CanadianCray" > Spake Unto All:
>
>>It should be safe for snails. I've used it & melafix for crayfish & shrimp
>>before. Usually whatever effects a snail effects other crustaceans aswell.
>
> Not at all.
>
> Formalin or peroxide or flubenol will easily kill snails, while
> crayfish and shrimp are more resistant than fish - because they have a
> thick armor the medication can not penetrate.
>
> I'd instead put it as that any medication which is effective against
> external parasites is likely to kill snails.
>
> Regarding Pima fix they don't list any active ingredient, so I have no
> idea if it's effective or against what.
>

[CanadianCray]

Your kidding me right??? A thick armor that meds can't penetrate. Ok try
putting some anti-snail meds in the tank. Se what happens to your crays or
shrimp.

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> Thusly "CanadianCray" > Spake Unto All:
>
>>It should be safe for snails. I've used it & melafix for crayfish & shrimp
>>before. Usually whatever effects a snail effects other crustaceans aswell.
>
> Not at all.
>
> Formalin or peroxide or flubenol will easily kill snails, while
> crayfish and shrimp are more resistant than fish - because they have a
> thick armor the medication can not penetrate.
>
> I'd instead put it as that any medication which is effective against
> external parasites is likely to kill snails.
>
> Regarding Pima fix they don't list any active ingredient, so I have no
> idea if it's effective or against what.
>

[CanadianCray]

Yes you are correct I meant to say invertebrate. Also many anti snail meds
will kill your crayfish & shrimp & vice versa. So drawing conclusions on
that basis is very sound IMO

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> CanadianCray wrote:
>> It should be safe for snails. I've used it & melafix for crayfish &
>> shrimp before. Usually whatever effects a snail effects other crustaceans
>> aswell.
>>
> I hate to nitpick but snails aren't crustaceans. They're molluscs. I'm
> not sure drawing conclusions from crayfish and shrimp is necessarily
> predictive for snails.
>
>> "blue sky" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Hi
>>>I was thinking and after reading the bottle, Pimafix says its safe for
>>>everything except scaless fish...
>>>but what about snails??
>>>
>>>No one is sick....the two sides of my brain are just debating...
>>>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Ozdude]

"blue sky" > wrote in message
...
> Hi
> I was thinking and after reading the bottle, Pimafix says its safe for
> everything except scaless fish...
> but what about snails??
>
> No one is sick....the two sides of my brain are just debating...

On the AP web site in the FAQ for MelaFix it says this:

"Will MelaFix kill snails?

No."

I use both of their products, well have done recently, and I own a single
Apple Snail.

It was okay on the second application but did something wierd on the first
one - like disgorging it's innards. I am not sure to this day whether it was
just an initial reaction or not because on the second application, it was
fine and wasn't bothered.

I committed a silly transgression on the first application of the XXXFixes
because I also dosed Trisulfa at the same time - I've learnt from experience
that you dose one thing at a time because of this exact situation.

The snail is fine and healthy btw - it didn't die because I panicked and
threw it in the other tank. The second time I used combination XXXXfixes
there was no reaction at all from the Apple snail.

It seems it is safe for plants filters and snails.

Oz

--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "blue sky" > Spake Unto All:

>Actually, pimafix does state the ingredients...its1% pimenta racemosa (Bay
>leaf oil)

Yeah, but that's like stating that the content of a cup of coffee is
'coffee' - literally true, but not very detailed.

It's quite possible it wouldn't help me to know what the active
ingredient is, but it's certain that knowing that it's extract of
Pimenta racemosa doesn't.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Which anti-snail med?
Flubenol is an anti-snail med, so is formalin, and peroxide, in that
it'll kill snails at levels that are safe for shrimp and fish.

On the other hand copper will kill both, and insecticides will kill
shrimp before snails.

It all depends on what the active substance is.
Surely this is obvious?

[CanadianCray]

Melafix is just tea tree oil. It is a natural anti fungal med.

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> Thusly "blue sky" > Spake Unto All:
>
>>Actually, pimafix does state the ingredients...its1% pimenta racemosa (Bay
>>leaf oil)
>
> Yeah, but that's like stating that the content of a cup of coffee is
> 'coffee' - literally true, but not very detailed.
>
> It's quite possible it wouldn't help me to know what the active
> ingredient is, but it's certain that knowing that it's extract of
> Pimenta racemosa doesn't.
>

[Elaine T]

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly "blue sky" > Spake Unto All:
>
>
>>Actually, pimafix does state the ingredients...its1% pimenta racemosa (Bay
>>leaf oil)
>
>
> Yeah, but that's like stating that the content of a cup of coffee is
> 'coffee' - literally true, but not very detailed.
>
> It's quite possible it wouldn't help me to know what the active
> ingredient is, but it's certain that knowing that it's extract of
> Pimenta racemosa doesn't.
>
Mostly methyl eugenol or methyl isoeugenol which accounts for much of
the antibacterial effect. Some subspecies also have considerable
amounts of terpineol and/or terpineol acetate, but those are rarely
found in the bulk essential oil trade. Of course, there are a number of
other chemicals any of which may be medicinal or have an unpredictable
effect on fishtank inhabitants.
http://www.znaturforsch.com/sc/57c/s57c0449.pdf has a GC/MS analysis.
The methyl eugenol gives Pimenta racemosa (bay rum) its classic spicy smell.

Now, I haven't a clue what they did to the essential oil to solubilize
it, since the definition of essential oil is the water insoluble part of
the condensate from a plant distillation. Clearly it's some sort of
detergent - likely one of the polysorbates - since the tank foams when
melafix or pimafix is added.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly Elaine T > Spake Unto All:

>Mostly methyl eugenol or methyl isoeugenol which accounts for much of
>the antibacterial effect.

Ah, thank you.
OK, a low-risk pesticide, moderately toxic to mammals, weakly
carcinogenic, ecological information "not available" (apparently under
EPA review). There's tons of info on its toxicity to rats, and quite a
lot about its use to attract fruit flies to traps, but if there is
anything about its toxicity to snails, I can't find it.

So it didn't help to know what the active ingredient was, but now I'm
confused at a higher level.