Water Changes and Nitrate

[David J. Braunegg]

My ammonia and nitrites test out at zero, so my bio-wheel biological filter
seems to be working well. I'd like to figure out how often to perform
partial water replacements based on the nitrate levels. At what level of
nitrate should I do a water change, and what level should I try to bring the
nitrate down to?

Thanks,
Dave

[Mary Burns]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> My ammonia and nitrites test out at zero, so my bio-wheel biological
> filter seems to be working well. I'd like to figure out how often to
> perform partial water replacements based on the nitrate levels. At what
> level of nitrate should I do a water change, and what level should I try
> to bring the nitrate down to?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
>It depends on size of tank and fish. A samll tank under 20 and large tanks
>with messy fish may be 30/40. The lower the better. Some fish like angels
>need regular water changes, 2 or 3 a week as they thrive in claen water
>rather than the nitrate level. I do 2 x 10/15% a week on all my tanks, as
>it prevents problems rather than spotting them later. In my 65g with 2
>angels and 5 clown loaches they just deserve the best I can offer them, and
>they are all thriving and growing. Some LFS say 10% a week or 20% a
>fortnight, that that is a minimum/general rule and it's up to you to decide
>based on your fish. Mary.

[David J. Braunegg]

Mary,

Thank you for the response. I can see that that the desirable nitrate level
might vary by the type of fish, but the size of tank shouldn't matter.
Nitrate level is nitrate level no matter how big or small the tank is.

I have Platys and Corys. I've had several unexplained fish deaths and am
trying to figure out what is going on. I've seen no visible signs of
disease, so I am looking into water quality.

I have a 10-gallon tank and, due to a busy schedule, I shifted from a
3-gallon water change (with gravel vacuum) every week to a 3-gallon water
change every two weeks. I want some way of determining if I need to go back
to the weekly changes. I am also starting to wonder if I've been
overfeeding the fish. I am thinking that a high nitrate level would also be
an indicator of that. Hence my original posting.

Dave


"Mary Burns" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My ammonia and nitrites test out at zero, so my bio-wheel biological
>> filter seems to be working well. I'd like to figure out how often to
>> perform partial water replacements based on the nitrate levels. At what
>> level of nitrate should I do a water change, and what level should I try
>> to bring the nitrate down to?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
>>It depends on size of tank and fish. A samll tank under 20 and large tanks
>>with messy fish may be 30/40. The lower the better. Some fish like angels
>>need regular water changes, 2 or 3 a week as they thrive in claen water
>>rather than the nitrate level. I do 2 x 10/15% a week on all my tanks, as
>>it prevents problems rather than spotting them later. In my 65g with 2
>>angels and 5 clown loaches they just deserve the best I can offer them,
>>and they are all thriving and growing. Some LFS say 10% a week or 20% a
>>fortnight, that that is a minimum/general rule and it's up to you to
>>decide based on your fish. Mary.
>
>

[dfreas]

David J. Braunegg wrote:
> Nitrate level is nitrate level no matter how big or small the tank
is.

While this is technically correct I think what Mary was refering to is
that there is more room for error in a large tank. A high nitrate level
in a large tank isn't as serious because the increased water volume is
a bit more forgiving.

> I have a 10-gallon tank and, due to a busy schedule, I shifted from a

> 3-gallon water change (with gravel vacuum) every week to a 3-gallon
water
> change every two weeks. I want some way of determining if I need to
go back
> to the weekly changes.

Unless your tank is very heavily stocked your current water changing
schedule should be sufficient for the fish you have. Have you tested
the water yet? If so posting some test results might be helpful.

> I am also starting to wonder if I've been
> overfeeding the fish. I am thinking that a high nitrate level would
also be
> an indicator of that. Hence my original posting.

A high nitrate level is not necessarily an indicator of overfeeding. A
high rate of increase in nitrates would be though. If you want to use
nitrates to determine if you are overfeeding or not then you are going
to need to test the water several times between water changes to see
how fast the nitrates are going up rather than just finding out how
high they are now.

Also check your tap water - while you might think it should test 0ppm
for nitrates in many cases it does not.

-Daniel

[Jim Anderson]

In article >, djb@reverse-the-
er.miter.org says...

> I have Platys and Corys. I've had several unexplained fish deaths and am
> trying to figure out what is going on.
>

Some corys (Panda for example) expire for little or no reason, never
happened to me but have seen reports.

--
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger

[js1]

On 2005-04-05, dfreas > wrote:
>
> While this is technically correct I think what Mary was refering to is
> that there is more room for error in a large tank. A high nitrate level
> in a large tank isn't as serious because the increased water volume is
> a bit more forgiving.
>

I'm not sure it is... It's harder to change a larger mass, but when you
test, you're testing the average, not a one time spike. That is,
overfeeding similarly stocked 20G and 55G tanks won't change the
water parameters in the 55G as much as the 20G. But, since the units of
measurement is ppm or g/mL, then the volume has been normalized.
It's that many ppm regardless of the size of the tank.

To answer the original question, the nitrate levels depend on what
you are keeping. Some fish can stand higher levels, others can't.
Plant tanks need higher levels to feed the plants. If you don't have
plants, ideally, you probably want nitrates to be as low as possible,
10ppm or less, maybe?

My favorite trick is to use terrestrial plants to suck out the nitrates
in a tank. Devil's ivy is particularly good for this. Let the leaves
hang outside of the tank, and immerse the root and root stubs in
the water. Something else to try is to find some aquatic plants
that are nitrates sponges like anacharis, duckweed, indian fern, etc.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[Mary Burns]

"David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
...
> My ammonia and nitrites test out at zero, so my bio-wheel biological
> filter seems to be working well. I'd like to figure out how often to
> perform partial water replacements based on the nitrate levels. At what
> level of nitrate should I do a water change, and what level should I try
> to bring the nitrate down to?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
>Platies are good eaters, pecking plants during the day, eating the micro
>(something) that feed on algae on plants. They do produce a lot of poo. In
>my 10g, I am raising 10 male redwags platy fry for LFS. All are now 1", and
>will have to be 1.25" before they are ready. It is fully stocked, but I
>hoover gravel 25% a week and change 10% a day. Nitrate is 12.5% and tap
>water is 15%. Plants bring it down very well. In my 25g, I have 30+ platy
>fry, all about 1/2" . As platies eat everything from the top, middle,
>bottom you have to increase the water changes. It is hard to get food past
>platies for your cories as they will eat it first, before the cories come
>out. My platies love tossing an algae wafer around, meant for someone
>else, etc. Even so, platies are very hardy with nitrate levels, but your
>cories are not.I have over 60 platies and 10 cories in various tanks at
>moment so I do understand them a little. Mary

[dfreas]

js1 wrote:
> I'm not sure it is... It's harder to change a larger mass, but when
you
> test, you're testing the average, not a one time spike. That is,
> overfeeding similarly stocked 20G and 55G tanks won't change the
> water parameters in the 55G as much as the 20G. But, since the units
of
> measurement is ppm or g/mL, then the volume has been normalized.
> It's that many ppm regardless of the size of the tank.

It isn't the nitrate levels directly that kill fish - nitrate levels
only stress them except at extreme levels (beyond the range of store
bought kits) where they can sometimes be lethal. In common practice it
is never the nitrates that kill a fish, the nitrates only stress them
and weaken them so they are more prone to disease. In a ten gallon tank
this is more dangerous than in a 100 gallon tank because the fish are
in closer quarters and disease will spread faster and more completely
giving a higher chance of killing the fish. So yes, high nitrate levels
are more dangerous in a small tank than in a large one. Normalization
of the volume has nothing to do with it.

pH fluctuations would also be more dangerous in a small tank - as would
wide temperature variations. Both of these are normalized parameters.
Neither of them however will kill fish directly except in extreme
circumstances, it is the stress they cause that weakens fish to attacks
from other dangers. Stress of any kind is in general a bigger risk in a
smaller tank.


> Plant tanks need higher levels to feed the plants.

This isn't true. If the nitrate levels aren't zero then the plants have
plenty of nitrates. My tanks never get above 10ppm and they are heavily
planted - in fact I have successfully kept planted tanks with less than
5ppm (lower than the detectable range of the test kit) nitrates with no
problems whatsoever. The amount of nitrates that plants require is very
low and if nitrates aren't zero then the plants aren't using all of the
available nitrates and thus aren't starving.

-Daniel

[David C. Stone]

In article >, js1 >
wrote:

> On 2005-04-05, dfreas > wrote:
> >
> > While this is technically correct I think what Mary was refering to is
> > that there is more room for error in a large tank. A high nitrate level
> > in a large tank isn't as serious because the increased water volume is
> > a bit more forgiving.
> >
>
> I'm not sure it is... It's harder to change a larger mass, but when you
> test, you're testing the average, not a one time spike. That is,
> overfeeding similarly stocked 20G and 55G tanks won't change the
> water parameters in the 55G as much as the 20G. But, since the units of
> measurement is ppm or g/mL, then the volume has been normalized.
> It's that many ppm regardless of the size of the tank.

Agreed, although a ppm is a mg/L ... if you had g/mL levels of nitrate
in your tank, the water would be pretty sludgy!! (Saturated NaCl is
about 0.35 g/mL)

The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
BIG job!

[Geezer From The Freezer]

"David C. Stone" wrote:
> The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
> levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
> versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
> right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
> BIG job!

Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!

[David C. Stone]

In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:

> "David C. Stone" wrote:
> > The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
> > levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
> > versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
> > right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
> > BIG job!
>
> Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!

Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?

[Glenn]

David,

The python is the best thing since sliced bread! It is a gravel vacuum
attachment on a hose connected to a water bed drain/refill pump. You
connect it to the sink faucet, and suck out the water (cleaning the gravel
while you do so), and then change the pump and refill the tank through the
same hose. You can adjust the temp a bit with a little hot water in the
mix. I just add the dechlorinator to the tank before I begin the refill,
and it works a treat!

see Dr.s Foster and Smith


"David C. Stone" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
>
>> "David C. Stone" wrote:
>> > The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
>> > levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
>> > versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
>> > right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
>> > BIG job!
>>
>> Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
>
> Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
> nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?

[Elaine T]

David C. Stone wrote:
> In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"David C. Stone" wrote:
>>
>>>The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
>>>levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
>>>versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
>>>right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
>>>BIG job!
>>
>>Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
>
>
> Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
> nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?

It's a brand. And they have up to 50 foot hoses so 6 feet is nuthin'.
Pythons are great if you live in an area where water conservation isn't
a concern. I don't like using them to drain tanks here in dry Southern
California because they use a lot of water to generate the suction.
Even back when I had a three large tanks, all my wastewater went out
onto the garden.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Nikki Casali]

Elaine T wrote:

> David C. Stone wrote:
>
>> In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "David C. Stone" wrote:
>>>
>>>> The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
>>>> levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
>>>> versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
>>>> right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
>>>> BIG job!
>>>
>>>
>>> Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
>>
>>
>>
>> Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
>> nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?
>
>
> It's a brand. And they have up to 50 foot hoses so 6 feet is nuthin'.
> Pythons are great if you live in an area where water conservation isn't
> a concern. I don't like using them to drain tanks here in dry Southern
> California because they use a lot of water to generate the suction. Even
> back when I had a three large tanks, all my wastewater went out onto the
> garden.

I wouldn't use it. I can't even use an unattended hose in the UK without
paying extra for it. They even now stress water conservation because of
the little rain we had over the winter period. Hey, some even predict
the next war will be a fight over water! Oil is so passé.

Nikki

[Gill Passman]

"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Elaine T wrote:
>
> > David C. Stone wrote:
> >
> >> In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> "David C. Stone" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
> >>>> levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
> >>>> versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
> >>>> right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
> >>>> BIG job!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
> >> nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?
> >
> >
> > It's a brand. And they have up to 50 foot hoses so 6 feet is nuthin'.
> > Pythons are great if you live in an area where water conservation isn't
> > a concern. I don't like using them to drain tanks here in dry Southern
> > California because they use a lot of water to generate the suction. Even
> > back when I had a three large tanks, all my wastewater went out onto the
> > garden.
>
> I wouldn't use it. I can't even use an unattended hose in the UK without
> paying extra for it. They even now stress water conservation because of
> the little rain we had over the winter period. Hey, some even predict
> the next war will be a fight over water! Oil is so passé.
>
> Nikki
>
I guess you are on a meter then Nikki....so far I've resisted. With 3 kids,
a garden plus the fish tanks I'm holding out til forced to do so. BTW we
still try not to waste and I do try to use the tank water on the garden....

BTW haven't noticed the lack of rain either....

Gill

[js1]

On 2005-04-06, David C. Stone > wrote:
>
> Agreed, although a ppm is a mg/L ... if you had g/mL levels of nitrate
> in your tank, the water would be pretty sludgy!! (Saturated NaCl is
> about 0.35 g/mL)
>

Yeah, I realized the mistake after I posted. Thanks for catching it.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[js1]

On 2005-04-06, dfreas > wrote:
>
>> Plant tanks need higher levels to feed the plants.
>
> This isn't true. If the nitrate levels aren't zero then the plants have
> plenty of nitrates. My tanks never get above 10ppm and they are heavily
> planted - in fact I have successfully kept planted tanks with less than
> 5ppm (lower than the detectable range of the test kit) nitrates with no
> problems whatsoever. The amount of nitrates that plants require is very
> low and if nitrates aren't zero then the plants aren't using all of the
> available nitrates and thus aren't starving.
>

What kind of plants? I'm going to speculate that a higher, but not
excessive, level of nitrates for plants makes a more stable plant
tank. That's been my personal experience, anyway. For one of my
tanks, if the nitrate readings get below 15ppm, algae starts growing
pretty easily. This is also due to relative phosphate levels being
off.

In my high light, heavily planted tank, the nitrates are
always below 10, and it's obvious some of the plants are starving.
I can't feed the fish enough to raise the levels. High light
plant tanks require a lot of attention.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[Dick]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:35:46 -0400, "David J. Braunegg"
> wrote:

>Mary,
>
>Thank you for the response. I can see that that the desirable nitrate level
>might vary by the type of fish, but the size of tank shouldn't matter.
>Nitrate level is nitrate level no matter how big or small the tank is.
>
>I have Platys and Corys. I've had several unexplained fish deaths and am
>trying to figure out what is going on. I've seen no visible signs of
>disease, so I am looking into water quality.
>
>I have a 10-gallon tank and, due to a busy schedule, I shifted from a
>3-gallon water change (with gravel vacuum) every week to a 3-gallon water
>change every two weeks. I want some way of determining if I need to go back
>to the weekly changes. I am also starting to wonder if I've been
>overfeeding the fish. I am thinking that a high nitrate level would also be
>an indicator of that. Hence my original posting.
>
>Dave
>
>
>"Mary Burns" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "David J. Braunegg" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> My ammonia and nitrites test out at zero, so my bio-wheel biological
>>> filter seems to be working well. I'd like to figure out how often to
>>> perform partial water replacements based on the nitrate levels. At what
>>> level of nitrate should I do a water change, and what level should I try
>>> to bring the nitrate down to?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>It depends on size of tank and fish. A samll tank under 20 and large tanks
>>>with messy fish may be 30/40. The lower the better. Some fish like angels
>>>need regular water changes, 2 or 3 a week as they thrive in claen water
>>>rather than the nitrate level. I do 2 x 10/15% a week on all my tanks, as
>>>it prevents problems rather than spotting them later. In my 65g with 2
>>>angels and 5 clown loaches they just deserve the best I can offer them,
>>>and they are all thriving and growing. Some LFS say 10% a week or 20% a
>>>fortnight, that that is a minimum/general rule and it's up to you to
>>>decide based on your fish. Mary.
>>
>>
>
I would be concerned about long term build up of solids, not short
term nitrates. Research "Old Tank" syndrome.

dick

[Dick]

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:14:32 -0400, "David C. Stone"
> wrote:

>In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:
>
>> "David C. Stone" wrote:
>> > The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
>> > levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
>> > versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
>> > right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
>> > BIG job!
>>
>> Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
>
>Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
>nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?

Python is the name, "Gravel Vac" is the product and it comes in
various lenths. Here is one site offering the product. I just picked
one from Google that had a variety of lengths, not an endorsement of
the vendor.

http://www.aquariumcenter.com/stuff_product.php?id=53

dick

[dfreas]

js1 wrote:
> What kind of plants? I'm going to speculate that a higher, but not
> excessive, level of nitrates for plants makes a more stable plant
> tank. That's been my personal experience, anyway. For one of my
> tanks, if the nitrate readings get below 15ppm, algae starts growing
> pretty easily. This is also due to relative phosphate levels being
> off.

Just about any kind of plant - I've kept more plants in these
conditions than I can remember the names of but basically all commonly
available aquarium plants and maybe half a dozen or so more demanding
plants. A higher level of nitrates might make for a more stable plant
tank but only if nitrates are fluctuating. If you have a stable nitrate
level then it need not be high so long as it is not zero. I would be
willing to bet that your algae problem at nitrate levels under 15ppm is
entirely a result of the phosphate and other nutrients being at or near
zero.

Plants can continue to use nitrates with no problem at concentrations
lower than our test kits can detect. So if you have any nitrates at all
in your tank then you have more than your plants need. This isn't to
say that you should shoot for a zero nitrate reading, but it does mean
you needn't aim high. Any detectable amount of nitrate is enough as
long as it stays detectable and never drops down to zero.


> In my high light, heavily planted tank, the nitrates are
> always below 10, and it's obvious some of the plants are starving.
> I can't feed the fish enough to raise the levels. High light
> plant tanks require a lot of attention.

Unless by below ten you mean zero then it isn't the nitrate that your
plants are starving from. My most recently planted tank is a 20 gallon
with four bunches of java fern, four large anubias, a corkscrew val, an
amazon sword, three or four long strings of a type of chain sword, some
hornwort, two medium red swords, a large bunch of lysimachia aurea, a
bit of java moss, and quite a bit of water clover for ground cover.
Nitrates are below 5ppm (undetectable with my kit) and growth is quite
steady and healthy. Lighting is approximately 2.5 watts per gallon so
not extremely high but not terribly low either.

Your plants probably need some sort of trace element or something that
you aren't testing. Do you use CO2 injection? That is much much more
limiting than nitrate in most aquariums. If you have CO2, bright light,
and a non-zero nitrate reading then start testing other things like
phosphate.

-Daniel

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Gill Passman wrote:
> I guess you are on a meter then Nikki....so far I've resisted. With 3 kids,
> a garden plus the fish tanks I'm holding out til forced to do so. BTW we
> still try not to waste and I do try to use the tank water on the garden....
>
> BTW haven't noticed the lack of rain either....
>
> Gill

IS the chemicals in the dechlorinator ok to put on grass?

[Quatermass]

Ok the Python uses suction force to pull water from your tank so it
does waste a lot of water.

But why not think differently?

Buy your self a little Aquatic water pump (around =A310), hold it in
your hand and put it into your tank, attach a long hose to it, which
you can get from any LFS for a few quid, with the end in your sink.

The result is that you place the pump into the tank water, switch on
the water flows into your sink. Easy.
and so no waste water is used!

Look at the various water pumps around and choose how many litres/hour
you want to flow out.

Even the smallest pump will do around 32-75gallons (120-300 litres) an
hour or about 2-5 litres a minute.


When you're finished emptying the tank, put the plug into your sink,
fill the sink with water and this time put the pump into the sink.
Keep the water running in the sink and add a few drops of dechlorine
chemical every minute as the pump fills your tank.

Too easy?


One thing to watch is the height of the outlet of the pump to its
inlet. Too high then the pump can't force the water up the hose. This
is called the 'Delivery head', for most small pumps this is only
1meter.

The Eheim 1046 pump (300 l/h or 5 l/min) is a good choice as it has
two hose fittings so you don't need to place the pump itself into the
tank. It has a delivery head of 4feet.

http://www.eheim.com/technik_pumpen.htm

P=2ES.
If using the sink either place a nonsoap used basin in the sink first
(I do this) or *really* clean the sink first of all soap. You don't
want to get soap into the tank!

Hope this helps.

[Nikki Casali]

Gill Passman wrote:

> "Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>Elaine T wrote:
>>
>>
>>>David C. Stone wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"David C. Stone" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
>>>>>>levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
>>>>>>versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
>>>>>>right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
>>>>>>BIG job!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
>>>>nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?
>>>
>>>
>>>It's a brand. And they have up to 50 foot hoses so 6 feet is nuthin'.
>>>Pythons are great if you live in an area where water conservation isn't
>>>a concern. I don't like using them to drain tanks here in dry Southern
>>>California because they use a lot of water to generate the suction. Even
>>>back when I had a three large tanks, all my wastewater went out onto the
>>>garden.
>>
>>I wouldn't use it. I can't even use an unattended hose in the UK without
>>paying extra for it. They even now stress water conservation because of
>>the little rain we had over the winter period. Hey, some even predict
>>the next war will be a fight over water! Oil is so passé.
>>
>>Nikki
>>
>
> I guess you are on a meter then Nikki....so far I've resisted.

Nope. But I won't use a sprinkler in the garden as it will antagonise
the neighbours....further. One of my neigbours is a bit....anal.
Unattended hoses are banned on unmetered water supplies. Now if I could
work out a way of filling a water butt with water from a Python then
there wouldn't be any waste.

With 3 kids,
> a garden plus the fish tanks I'm holding out til forced to do so. BTW we
> still try not to waste and I do try to use the tank water on the garden....

I'm thinking of getting a water butt for storing aquarium water for use
with the garden. Currently, I just dump it onto the patio where it runs
on to the grass.

> BTW haven't noticed the lack of rain either....

It's been raining enough that I haven't needed to water the grass.

Nikki

[Nikki Casali]

Yep, I use a pond pump and a 5 meter hose for shifting water around.

Nikki

Quatermass wrote:

> Ok the Python uses suction force to pull water from your tank so it
> does waste a lot of water.
>
> But why not think differently?
>
> Buy your self a little Aquatic water pump (around £10), hold it in
> your hand and put it into your tank, attach a long hose to it, which
> you can get from any LFS for a few quid, with the end in your sink.
>
> The result is that you place the pump into the tank water, switch on
> the water flows into your sink. Easy.
> and so no waste water is used!
>
> Look at the various water pumps around and choose how many litres/hour
> you want to flow out.
>
> Even the smallest pump will do around 32-75gallons (120-300 litres) an
> hour or about 2-5 litres a minute.
>
>
> When you're finished emptying the tank, put the plug into your sink,
> fill the sink with water and this time put the pump into the sink.
> Keep the water running in the sink and add a few drops of dechlorine
> chemical every minute as the pump fills your tank.
>
> Too easy?
>
>
> One thing to watch is the height of the outlet of the pump to its
> inlet. Too high then the pump can't force the water up the hose. This
> is called the 'Delivery head', for most small pumps this is only
> 1meter.
>
> The Eheim 1046 pump (300 l/h or 5 l/min) is a good choice as it has
> two hose fittings so you don't need to place the pump itself into the
> tank. It has a delivery head of 4feet.
>
> http://www.eheim.com/technik_pumpen.htm
>
> P.S.
> If using the sink either place a nonsoap used basin in the sink first
> (I do this) or *really* clean the sink first of all soap. You don't
> want to get soap into the tank!
>
> Hope this helps.
>

[Nikki Casali]

Geezer From The Freezer wrote:

>
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>>I guess you are on a meter then Nikki....so far I've resisted. With 3 kids,
>>a garden plus the fish tanks I'm holding out til forced to do so. BTW we
>>still try not to waste and I do try to use the tank water on the garden....
>>
>>BTW haven't noticed the lack of rain either....
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> IS the chemicals in the dechlorinator ok to put on grass?

My immediate response is why would you want to put dechlorinator on your
grass? But then you must mean the water from a tank water change. By the
time it goes into my garden the dechlorinator is at least a week old and
most probably decomposed and non-existent. If my aquarium plants and
fish can tolerate it, then there'd be no issue with grass.

Nikki

[Elaine T]

Quatermass wrote:
> Ok the Python uses suction force to pull water from your tank so it
> does waste a lot of water.
>
> But why not think differently?
>
> Buy your self a little Aquatic water pump (around £10), hold it in
> your hand and put it into your tank, attach a long hose to it, which
> you can get from any LFS for a few quid, with the end in your sink.
>
> The result is that you place the pump into the tank water, switch on
> the water flows into your sink. Easy.
> and so no waste water is used!
>
> Look at the various water pumps around and choose how many litres/hour
> you want to flow out.
>
> Even the smallest pump will do around 32-75gallons (120-300 litres) an
> hour or about 2-5 litres a minute.
>
>
> When you're finished emptying the tank, put the plug into your sink,
> fill the sink with water and this time put the pump into the sink.
> Keep the water running in the sink and add a few drops of dechlorine
> chemical every minute as the pump fills your tank.
>
> Too easy?
>
>
> One thing to watch is the height of the outlet of the pump to its
> inlet. Too high then the pump can't force the water up the hose. This
> is called the 'Delivery head', for most small pumps this is only
> 1meter.
>
> The Eheim 1046 pump (300 l/h or 5 l/min) is a good choice as it has
> two hose fittings so you don't need to place the pump itself into the
> tank. It has a delivery head of 4feet.
>
> http://www.eheim.com/technik_pumpen.htm
>
> P.S.
> If using the sink either place a nonsoap used basin in the sink first
> (I do this) or *really* clean the sink first of all soap. You don't
> want to get soap into the tank!
>
> Hope this helps.
>
I'll have to remember that for when I get a bigger tank. At the moment,
a 5 gallon bucket does a 50% water change on my largest tank. ;-)

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Gill Passman]

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Gill Passman wrote:
> > I guess you are on a meter then Nikki....so far I've resisted. With 3
kids,
> > a garden plus the fish tanks I'm holding out til forced to do so. BTW we
> > still try not to waste and I do try to use the tank water on the
garden....
> >
> > BTW haven't noticed the lack of rain either....
> >
> > Gill
>
> IS the chemicals in the dechlorinator ok to put on grass?

I'm not sure but it certainly doesn't hurt the Irises in the Bog Garden they
grow brilliantly.....The lawn suffers too much from the dog and two boys
playing football to notice if the chemicals effect the grass or not. Also
I'm pretty sure that by the time they've been in the tank for a while any
toxic effects on grass will have gone....afterall the chemicals don't seem
to kill the aquatic plants...plus the nitrate contact should be
beneficial....hey maybe we've found a good natural way of feeding
plants/lawns.... *grin*

[Gill Passman]

"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
> > "Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>
> >>Elaine T wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>David C. Stone wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"David C. Stone" wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
> >>>>>>levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
> >>>>>>versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything
plumbed
> >>>>>>right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
> >>>>>>BIG job!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
> >>>>nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It's a brand. And they have up to 50 foot hoses so 6 feet is nuthin'.
> >>>Pythons are great if you live in an area where water conservation isn't
> >>>a concern. I don't like using them to drain tanks here in dry Southern
> >>>California because they use a lot of water to generate the suction.
Even
> >>>back when I had a three large tanks, all my wastewater went out onto
the
> >>>garden.
> >>
> >>I wouldn't use it. I can't even use an unattended hose in the UK without
> >>paying extra for it. They even now stress water conservation because of
> >>the little rain we had over the winter period. Hey, some even predict
> >>the next war will be a fight over water! Oil is so passé.
> >>
> >>Nikki
> >>
> >
> > I guess you are on a meter then Nikki....so far I've resisted.
>
> Nope. But I won't use a sprinkler in the garden as it will antagonise
> the neighbours....further. One of my neigbours is a bit....anal.
> Unattended hoses are banned on unmetered water supplies. Now if I could
> work out a way of filling a water butt with water from a Python then
> there wouldn't be any waste.
>
> With 3 kids,
> > a garden plus the fish tanks I'm holding out til forced to do so. BTW we
> > still try not to waste and I do try to use the tank water on the
garden....
>
> I'm thinking of getting a water butt for storing aquarium water for use
> with the garden. Currently, I just dump it onto the patio where it runs
> on to the grass.
>
> > BTW haven't noticed the lack of rain either....
>
> It's been raining enough that I haven't needed to water the grass.
>
> Nikki
>
Generally I won't water the grass....it has a great recovery rate...but I do
water the beds usually with a hose but sometimes with a watering can. Now,
if I can use the tank water to do this so much the better....afterall, there
must be some pretty good nutrients with a good gravel clean along with the
nitrates not used up by the plants....I think this year I will run an
experiment on the flower tubs and see if I get better success with those fed
with tank water rather than tap water....

[Elaine T]

Gill Passman wrote:

> Generally I won't water the grass....it has a great recovery rate...but I do
> water the beds usually with a hose but sometimes with a watering can. Now,
> if I can use the tank water to do this so much the better....afterall, there
> must be some pretty good nutrients with a good gravel clean along with the
> nitrates not used up by the plants....I think this year I will run an
> experiment on the flower tubs and see if I get better success with those fed
> with tank water rather than tap water....
>
>
You will. Plants LOVE fishtank water. Give 'em all your filter
cleaning gunk as well.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Robert Flory]

"David C. Stone" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
>
>> "David C. Stone" wrote:
>> > The flip side is that the volume of water needed to reduce nitrate
>> > levels through water changes is slightly more than double for a 55g
>> > versus a 20g tank - much more work unless you have everything plumbed
>> > right in. I have a 130g tank here, and a 10-20% water change is a
>> > BIG job!
>>
>> Get a python water remover/replacer - its a doddle!
>
> Is "python" a brand or a generic term? And would the fact that the
> nearest sink is 6 feet from the tank be an issue?

One of my tanks is 25 feet from the sink, the other 37 feet away. I turn
the sucker on full blast to get it started, then shut off the water and
watch a half an hour of TV. I only realy vac my planted tanks once a month.

Works fine. This summer I am thinking of putting a valve on it for another
line to run to the back patio to water the plants ;-)
Bob

[js1]

On 2005-04-07, dfreas > wrote:
>
> Your plants probably need some sort of trace element or something that
> you aren't testing. Do you use CO2 injection? That is much much more
> limiting than nitrate in most aquariums. If you have CO2, bright light,
> and a non-zero nitrate reading then start testing other things like
> phosphate.
>

Yeah, I'm not going to disagree with anything you've said. When the DIY
CO2 was kicking, I was getting nice pearling. The growth was much
better. But, my last batch didn't do so good. And, even with CO2
and healthier growth, I don't have a good handle on the green water.
I just haven't given enough attention to my high light tank. Good thing
it's only a 10G, so the mistakes are still small.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman