Lighting schedule

[Ionizer]

Hi, group:

My wife and I started up our first aquarium on the weekend, with perhaps a
few too many fish (about 38 small fish in a 25-gallon tank) but so far,
everything seems to be going fine. Ammonia, pH and nitrite tests all come
within safe levels as of yesterday, and they all seem to be getting along
well together.

My question is about the schedule we should set for the canopy lighting.
I'm up at four in the morning, so I've been lighting the tank at that time
for a couple of hours- my wife feeds them at 5:30 and shuts off the light
for the day about forty minutes later. When we both come home, the lights
are on from about 4:00 until about midnight. This gives the fish, and the
two small plants, ten hours in total of light, but is it stressful on them
to have the lighting provided in two doses like this? Would they be
happier if I just set the light on a timer and had it run from 2PM to
midnight? This would mean that their morning feeding would be provided by
room lighting only- is that a problem? The two clown loaches might enjoy
that a bit more, but what about everyone else?

As you can see, we are real rookies, but we are determined to learn all we
need to know, and to take the best possible care of our new friends.

Our fish: 2 clown loaches, 4 rummy rose tetras, 6 balloon mollies, 5 red
wag platy, 5 penguin tetras and a few gold barbs and marigold flame
platys.

Many thanks,
Ian.

[blue sky]

Generally 8-12 hours in 1 block...dont keek turning the lights on and
off...it'll stress your fish. Try to follow a natural pattern of daylight to
make the fish feel more comfortable.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/beginnerfaqs/f/faq0052.htm
"Ionizer" > wrote in message
eenews.net...
> Hi, group:
>
> My wife and I started up our first aquarium on the weekend, with perhaps a
> few too many fish (about 38 small fish in a 25-gallon tank) but so far,
> everything seems to be going fine. Ammonia, pH and nitrite tests all come
> within safe levels as of yesterday, and they all seem to be getting along
> well together.
>
> My question is about the schedule we should set for the canopy lighting.
> I'm up at four in the morning, so I've been lighting the tank at that time
> for a couple of hours- my wife feeds them at 5:30 and shuts off the light
> for the day about forty minutes later. When we both come home, the lights
> are on from about 4:00 until about midnight. This gives the fish, and the
> two small plants, ten hours in total of light, but is it stressful on them
> to have the lighting provided in two doses like this? Would they be
> happier if I just set the light on a timer and had it run from 2PM to
> midnight? This would mean that their morning feeding would be provided by
> room lighting only- is that a problem? The two clown loaches might enjoy
> that a bit more, but what about everyone else?
>
> As you can see, we are real rookies, but we are determined to learn all we
> need to know, and to take the best possible care of our new friends.
>
> Our fish: 2 clown loaches, 4 rummy rose tetras, 6 balloon mollies, 5 red
> wag platy, 5 penguin tetras and a few gold barbs and marigold flame
> platys.
>
> Many thanks,
> Ian.
>

[steve]

Ionizer wrote:
> Hi, group:
>
> My wife and I started up our first aquarium on the weekend, with
perhaps a
> few too many fish (about 38 small fish in a 25-gallon tank) but so
far,
> everything seems to be going fine. Ammonia, pH and nitrite tests all
come
> within safe levels as of yesterday, and they all seem to be getting
along
> well together.


Okay, I'll bite. Even though my Trollometer is bouncing off the peg
and the aural alarm is shrill, just maybe these people are for real and
could use the help.

Ian, I'm really suprised you were able to purchase so many fish for a
newly set up tank, without any precautions or warnings from the fish
store people. Most pet stores will at least offer advice on cycling a
tank with a few hardy fish, and then adding more incrementally later.
But, you've got a tank full now so let's deal with that as if it were a
real situation.

Within the first few days, the ammonia level will rise, even if you
were lucky enough to obtain and use a fresh batch of bottled starter
bacteria. As the ammonia rises, the fish will become stressed. When
the weakest one gets sick, the rest of them being in close proximity
will be prone to sickness too. The weak have probably already started
dying as I write this, with a few more each day. If you do measure
killer levels of ammonia and use some ammo lock and huge water changes,
the hearty fish may survive if they don't succomb to ich or other
diseases assosiated with stress. This cycle (not "the" cycle) can
continue for some time. Ammonia level goes up, you take action with
water change and chemicals, the fish eek through. Next you'll have to
deal with a nitrite spike. You may be able to lessen the effects of
nitrite posioning with the same measures used to cope with ammonia.
After 3 weeks to a month of these constant water changes your tank may
have nearly completed a cycle and you'll have a colony of beneficial
bacteria. That is only if they haven't been killed off several times
from the medications you'll be advised to use to heal the fish from an
assortment of disease.

Instead of this scenario, which I wouldn't wish upon any person or
fish, I suggest you take all the fish except two platys back to the
store where they were purchased and then read up on cycling a new tank.
You mentioned you were determined to learn all you need to know...
Well, there's about a weeks worth of reading to do from a wide variety
of sources to get you started on the right foot. The fact that you
posted here to a newsgroup first indicates to me either of two things;
You know how to use the internet and will have no trouble searching
this group using keywords "cycle" and "new tank syndrome" and "fish per
inch" and "ammonia, chemical of death", or, you are a troll and
hopefully I'll be the only fish to take your bait.

:)
steve

[dfreas]

Ionizer wrote:
> This would mean that their morning feeding would be provided by
> room lighting only- is that a problem? The two clown loaches might
enjoy
> that a bit more, but what about everyone else?
[snip]
> Our fish: 2 clown loaches, 4 rummy rose tetras, 6 balloon mollies, 5
red
> wag platy, 5 penguin tetras and a few gold barbs and marigold flame
> platys.

It depends on the fish actually. Most fish are ok with a dark morning
feeding but there are a few exceptions. For instance I once had a guppy
tank that I had to turn the lights on for several minutes before I fed
them because they would sleep until the lights came on and they were
deep sleepers. Took them two or three minutes of light before they woke
up. Very funny to watch but it meant that if I fed them before they
were awake the food would sink and there was a lot of waste.

Your loaches and tetras will be fine eating in room light and your
barbs should be ok with it too. I haven't kept platys or mollies though
so I don't know about them. Easiest way to find out is try it one
morning and see if everyone eats - if not then you'll have to work out
something else. I would suggest waiting until the room lights have been
on for several minutes though as the fish are likely to wake up more
slowly in the lower light level.

I currently do a dark morning feeding in my tanks since I leave for
work a 5:30 and the lights don't come on until 7. I usually just turn
on the room light and eat breakfast and by the time I'm done eating the
fish are awake enough to eat.

-Daniel

[Ionizer]

"steve" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Okay, I'll bite. Even though my Trollometer is bouncing off the peg
> and the aural alarm is shrill, just maybe these people are for real and
> could use the help.
>
> Ian, I'm really suprised you were able to purchase so many fish for a
> newly set up tank, without any precautions or warnings from the fish
> store people. Most pet stores will at least offer advice on cycling a
> tank with a few hardy fish, and then adding more incrementally later.
> But, you've got a tank full now so let's deal with that as if it were a
> real situation.
>
> Within the first few days, the ammonia level will rise, even if you
> were lucky enough to obtain and use a fresh batch of bottled starter
> bacteria. As the ammonia rises, the fish will become stressed. When
> the weakest one gets sick, the rest of them being in close proximity
> will be prone to sickness too. The weak have probably already started
> dying as I write this, with a few more each day. If you do measure
> killer levels of ammonia and use some ammo lock and huge water changes,
> the hearty fish may survive if they don't succomb to ich or other
> diseases assosiated with stress. This cycle (not "the" cycle) can
> continue for some time. Ammonia level goes up, you take action with
> water change and chemicals, the fish eek through. Next you'll have to
> deal with a nitrite spike. You may be able to lessen the effects of
> nitrite posioning with the same measures used to cope with ammonia.
> After 3 weeks to a month of these constant water changes your tank may
> have nearly completed a cycle and you'll have a colony of beneficial
> bacteria. That is only if they haven't been killed off several times
> from the medications you'll be advised to use to heal the fish from an
> assortment of disease.
>
> Instead of this scenario, which I wouldn't wish upon any person or
> fish, I suggest you take all the fish except two platys back to the
> store where they were purchased and then read up on cycling a new tank.
> You mentioned you were determined to learn all you need to know...
> Well, there's about a weeks worth of reading to do from a wide variety
> of sources to get you started on the right foot. The fact that you
> posted here to a newsgroup first indicates to me either of two things;
> You know how to use the internet and will have no trouble searching
> this group using keywords "cycle" and "new tank syndrome" and "fish per
> inch" and "ammonia, chemical of death", or, you are a troll and
> hopefully I'll be the only fish to take your bait.

I'm not a troll at all, Steve. Since we apparently both "know how to use
the internet," I'm very surprised you didn't do a brief Google Groups
search for me before labelling me as such. Here, I've done the search for
you:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=ionizer+me7%40privacy.net&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&scoring=d

Prior to discovering "privacy.net," I posted using a disposable Hotmail
address:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=Ionizer+frito_lay_co%40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&sa=G&scoring=d

That said, I had done some reading ahead of time and had filled and
prepared the tank a week ahead of the big fish purchase, according to
these guidelines:
http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/11-2.cfm . I was aware
of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife overruled my insights
and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no problem putting this
population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being an expert, I felt
outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.

I will begin water changes this weekend and continue to test the water
because I would very much like to avoid the worst-case scenario you
outlined. I take it that you recommend being more aggressive about the
water changes than the 10% I had intended.

I'd also like to thank "blue sky" and "dfreas" for their helpful
responses.

Regards,
Ian.

[Ionizer]

"steve" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Okay, I'll bite. Even though my Trollometer is bouncing off the peg
> and the aural alarm is shrill, just maybe these people are for real and
> could use the help.
>
> Ian, I'm really suprised you were able to purchase so many fish for a
> newly set up tank, without any precautions or warnings from the fish
> store people. Most pet stores will at least offer advice on cycling a
> tank with a few hardy fish, and then adding more incrementally later.
> But, you've got a tank full now so let's deal with that as if it were a
> real situation.
>
> Within the first few days, the ammonia level will rise, even if you
> were lucky enough to obtain and use a fresh batch of bottled starter
> bacteria. As the ammonia rises, the fish will become stressed. When
> the weakest one gets sick, the rest of them being in close proximity
> will be prone to sickness too. The weak have probably already started
> dying as I write this, with a few more each day. If you do measure
> killer levels of ammonia and use some ammo lock and huge water changes,
> the hearty fish may survive if they don't succomb to ich or other
> diseases assosiated with stress. This cycle (not "the" cycle) can
> continue for some time. Ammonia level goes up, you take action with
> water change and chemicals, the fish eek through. Next you'll have to
> deal with a nitrite spike. You may be able to lessen the effects of
> nitrite posioning with the same measures used to cope with ammonia.
> After 3 weeks to a month of these constant water changes your tank may
> have nearly completed a cycle and you'll have a colony of beneficial
> bacteria. That is only if they haven't been killed off several times
> from the medications you'll be advised to use to heal the fish from an
> assortment of disease.
>
> Instead of this scenario, which I wouldn't wish upon any person or
> fish, I suggest you take all the fish except two platys back to the
> store where they were purchased and then read up on cycling a new tank.
> You mentioned you were determined to learn all you need to know...
> Well, there's about a weeks worth of reading to do from a wide variety
> of sources to get you started on the right foot. The fact that you
> posted here to a newsgroup first indicates to me either of two things;
> You know how to use the internet and will have no trouble searching
> this group using keywords "cycle" and "new tank syndrome" and "fish per
> inch" and "ammonia, chemical of death", or, you are a troll and
> hopefully I'll be the only fish to take your bait.

I'm not a troll at all, Steve. Since we apparently both "know how to use
the internet," I'm very surprised you didn't do a brief Google Groups
search for me before labelling me as such. Here, I've done the search for
you:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=ionizer+me7%40privacy.net&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&scoring=d

Prior to discovering "privacy.net," I posted using a disposable Hotmail
address:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=Ionizer+frito_lay_co%40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&sa=G&scoring=d

That said, I had done some reading ahead of time and had filled and
prepared the tank a week ahead of the big fish purchase, according to
these guidelines:
http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/11-2.cfm . I was aware
of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife overruled my insights
and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no problem putting this
population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being an expert, I felt
outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.

I will begin water changes this weekend and continue to test the water
because I would very much like to avoid the worst-case scenario you
outlined. I take it that you recommend being more aggressive about the
water changes than the 10% I had intended.

I'd also like to thank "blue sky" and "dfreas" for their helpful
responses.

Regards,
Ian.

(If this post ends up appearing twice, I apologize but blame
news.readfreenews.net, with which I've been experimenting since the demise
of news.individual.net's free service.)

[dfreas]

Ionizer wrote:
> I was aware
> of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife overruled my
insights
> and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no problem putting this
> population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being an expert, I felt
> outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.

Don't sweat it Ionizer - the word "overstocked" gets thrown around far
to much around here, mostly by people who have read the same warnings
you have but treat them as dogma rather than guidelines. You have put
yourself in a possibly high maintenance situation but it is by no means
a terrible one. In fact you may find that your tank supports the amount
of fish you have put in it without much trouble at all.

If you don't already have one get a five gallon bucket. That will give
you about the perfect size for your weekly water changes with the tank
you have. Also if you can, add a fast growing plant to your tank.
Luckily "fast growing" and "cheap" are pretty much synonimous when it
comes to aquarium plants. Hornwort or duckweed are perfect, anacharis
and frogbit are excellent second choices. They'll usually cost around
$1 for a handfull of any of those plants - if you live near a lot of
water you can usually find all of them for free.

Keep an eye on your nitrates, if they are going up faster than your
water changes are bringing them down then you may have a problem in the
long run. Expect them to level off somewhere under 40ppm, if they don't
then you need to change something until they do. This is a number that
I picked btw - it is by no means set in stone. Many people keep
perfectly happy fish in 80ppm nitrate water - I don't suggest it but it
is possible, I'm only pointing out that my guidelines shouldn't be
treated as dogma either. Use what works for you. I personally never
allow my aquariums to get over 10ppm nitrates, but that is because I
keep several very delicate fish and a number of invertibrates.

If after a few weeks you see that nitrates are getting out of hand you
have several choices. You can either increase water changes, work
towards heavier plant growth, or get rid of some fish. Heavier plant
growth is the most expensive option but IMHO the most fun (it also
requires the most research, adding more plants does not always equal
more plant growth). Getting rid of fish is the easiest solution but
probably the least satisfying. Increased water changes work but only to
a certain point, eventually if you're changing to much water the fish
will not like it.

Whatever you decide to do will most likely work itself out in the end.
A 25 gallon tank full of mostly small hardy fish is going to be pretty
forgiving of your mistakes, so don't worry over it too much and
definately don't get discouraged by the people who tell you you're
doing it all wrong and it's going to lead to disaster. I've been doing
it all wrong since I started keeping tanks, usually on purpose.

-Daniel

[Gfishery]

Ionizer wrote:
> I was aware
> of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife overruled my
insights
> and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no problem putting this
> population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being an expert, I felt
> outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.

Wow! My wife did the same thing at the chain fish store we were at.
(Are all wives like that?)
The fish store employee told us 3 goldfish was about the max we should
put in our 10g tank.

I'm afraid to take my wife there again. She wants to add a fourth
goldfish in our 10 gallon tank.

[dfreas]

As far as I can tell they are almost all like that. I have found a very
elegant solution though. "Of course you can have that fish honey - but
I have all the fish I can handle right now so if you want it you'll
have to take care of it." The response is almost always "Oh." and then
no more suggestions for buying fish for the rest of the day. Give it a
try. But be prepaired for her to say "Ok." she might (though I think
it's unlikely) and if she does you have to be ready to back up your
suggestion and help her set up her own tank.

-Daniel

[Gfishery]

"Ionizer" > wrote in message
...
> (If this post ends up appearing twice, I apologize but blame
> news.readfreenews.net, with which I've been experimenting since the demise
> of news.individual.net's free service.)

Many AOL users (myself included) moved to individual.net's free service
after AOL dropped all Internet Newsgroups.
I wonder if that influx caused individual.net to start charging.

[Elaine T]

dfreas wrote:
> As far as I can tell they are almost all like that. I have found a very
> elegant solution though. "Of course you can have that fish honey - but
> I have all the fish I can handle right now so if you want it you'll
> have to take care of it." The response is almost always "Oh." and then
> no more suggestions for buying fish for the rest of the day. Give it a
> try. But be prepaired for her to say "Ok." she might (though I think
> it's unlikely) and if she does you have to be ready to back up your
> suggestion and help her set up her own tank.
>
> -Daniel
>
As are non fishkeeping husbands. ;-) Only then it's "Honey, our fish
are too small. Can we get an oscar?"

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Ionizer wrote:

> That said, I had done some reading ahead of time and had filled and
> prepared the tank a week ahead of the big fish purchase, according to
> these guidelines:
> http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/11-2.cfm . I was aware
> of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife overruled my insights
> and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no problem putting this
> population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being an expert, I felt
> outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.
>
> I will begin water changes this weekend and continue to test the water
> because I would very much like to avoid the worst-case scenario you
> outlined. I take it that you recommend being more aggressive about the
> water changes than the 10% I had intended.
>
> I'd also like to thank "blue sky" and "dfreas" for their helpful
> responses.
>
> Regards,
> Ian.
>
>
Boy, was the SuperPet guy an idiot. I bet he works in the cat section
or something.

The best thing for your fish (along with returning some) would be to try
and get some dirty gravel or old filter material from a local fish store
or friend with fishtanks. Put it in your filter and it will add a
healthy colony of bacteria that will spread quickly. Plants from a
store that keeps fish in the planted tanks can also work to introduce
bacteria. If you can't find a source of bacteria from an established
tank, try one dose of BioSpira when you start to measure ammonia and
another dose when you start measuring nitrite. BioSpira's not as good
as bacteria from a tank, but better than nothing.

If you want still more reading, there's a FAQ pointer in my .sig.

Good luck!

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mary Burns]

I'll agree it is overstocked, platies are hardy but the clowns are scaleless
and shouldn't be in a cycling tank, very prone to ich in good circumstances
as well.
Your lighting suggestions don't give them 12 hours day/night. Young clowns
will eat with lights on, platies/mollies love the lights on. My 5 clowns
(3.5") are up at daylight, now around 6.15am, stay up all day with naps, and
promptly take themselves to bed around 7pm. My tank lights are 8am to
6.30pm. My 65g is against a south facing window, and I do turn lights off
for an hour around lunchtime, to stop algae, as it grows slower with a break
in the lights. Make sure your give the clowns somewhere they can get inside
to sleep, an ornament/cave, as they love this, and plants/cover for naps in
the day. My 5 all sleep in a big castle ornament, going up into spires at
night, they love spaces just bigger then they are...which must be bigger as
they grow(.They are notorious for getting stuck in small places!!)But they
are happy to nap during day under plants at the front. If your clowns are
slow to eat, try live bloodworm or algae wafers, they can't resist them.
Your suggestion of 2pm to midnight will only give then about 6 hours of
continous darkness ,with lighter mornings even less. Mary
"Ionizer" > wrote in message
eenews.net...
> Hi, group:
>
> My wife and I started up our first aquarium on the weekend, with perhaps a
> few too many fish (about 38 small fish in a 25-gallon tank) but so far,
> everything seems to be going fine. Ammonia, pH and nitrite tests all come
> within safe levels as of yesterday, and they all seem to be getting along
> well together.
>
> My question is about the schedule we should set for the canopy lighting.
> I'm up at four in the morning, so I've been lighting the tank at that time
> for a couple of hours- my wife feeds them at 5:30 and shuts off the light
> for the day about forty minutes later. When we both come home, the lights
> are on from about 4:00 until about midnight. This gives the fish, and the
> two small plants, ten hours in total of light, but is it stressful on them
> to have the lighting provided in two doses like this? Would they be
> happier if I just set the light on a timer and had it run from 2PM to
> midnight? This would mean that their morning feeding would be provided by
> room lighting only- is that a problem? The two clown loaches might enjoy
> that a bit more, but what about everyone else?
>
> As you can see, we are real rookies, but we are determined to learn all we
> need to know, and to take the best possible care of our new friends.
>
> Our fish: 2 clown loaches, 4 rummy rose tetras, 6 balloon mollies, 5 red
> wag platy, 5 penguin tetras and a few gold barbs and marigold flame
> platys.
>
> Many thanks,
> Ian.
>

[Dick]

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:13:00 -0400, "Ionizer" > wrote:

>Hi, group:
>
>My wife and I started up our first aquarium on the weekend, with perhaps a
>few too many fish (about 38 small fish in a 25-gallon tank) but so far,
>everything seems to be going fine. Ammonia, pH and nitrite tests all come
>within safe levels as of yesterday, and they all seem to be getting along
>well together.
>
>My question is about the schedule we should set for the canopy lighting.
>I'm up at four in the morning, so I've been lighting the tank at that time
>for a couple of hours- my wife feeds them at 5:30 and shuts off the light
>for the day about forty minutes later. When we both come home, the lights
>are on from about 4:00 until about midnight. This gives the fish, and the
>two small plants, ten hours in total of light, but is it stressful on them
>to have the lighting provided in two doses like this? Would they be
>happier if I just set the light on a timer and had it run from 2PM to
>midnight? This would mean that their morning feeding would be provided by
>room lighting only- is that a problem? The two clown loaches might enjoy
>that a bit more, but what about everyone else?
>
>As you can see, we are real rookies, but we are determined to learn all we
>need to know, and to take the best possible care of our new friends.
>
>Our fish: 2 clown loaches, 4 rummy rose tetras, 6 balloon mollies, 5 red
>wag platy, 5 penguin tetras and a few gold barbs and marigold flame
>platys.
>
>Many thanks,
>Ian.
>
I also am up by 4 am every day. I put my system on a timer to shut
off the lights mid day, otherwise they would be on from 4 am to 8 pm.
I think I was thinking of an algae problem when I started. I really
have forgotten why I started. I find this memory problem more often
every year, but usually find there was a good reason in the
beginning. Anyway, I have followed this schedule for 2 years: On
4am, off 1pm, on 3pm off 7pm. I do remember changing the schedule
once to better adjust to my movements. I nap after lunch, thus 1pm
was a good time to have the lights off.

As for feeding, I find my fish somewhat sluggish after the lights come
back on, so I wait the afternoon feeding until 3:30pm. I do morning
exercises with my mat in front of the 75 gallon tank, so I wait until
after I exercises to feed the fish. I don't like looking through the
feeding debris while I exercise.

As you can see, I mixed what was good for the fish with what is good
for me. I don't know if I have added to the health of the tank, how
does one know what would happen had some action not been taken, the
old "Road not taken" question.

I use an X-10 system. This includes a clock with memory that can
control wall outlet units, one for each tank location. My tanks are
all over the house, thus one timer is out of the question.

dick

[steve]

Ionizer wrote:

> I'm not a troll at all, Steve. Since we apparently both "know how to
use
> the internet," I'm very surprised you didn't do a brief Google Groups

> search for me before labelling me as such. Here, I've done the
search for
> you:
>
>
http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=ionizer+me7%40privacy.net&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&scoring=d
>
> Prior to discovering "privacy.net," I posted using a disposable
Hotmail
> address:
>
>
http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=Ionizer+frito_lay_co%40hotmail.com&hl=en&lr=&sa=G&scoring=d
>
> That said, I had done some reading ahead of time and had filled and
> prepared the tank a week ahead of the big fish purchase, according to

> these guidelines:
> http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/11-2.cfm . I was
aware
> of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife overruled my
insights
> and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no problem putting this
> population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being an expert, I felt
> outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.
>
> I will begin water changes this weekend and continue to test the
water
> because I would very much like to avoid the worst-case scenario you
> outlined. I take it that you recommend being more aggressive about
the
> water changes than the 10% I had intended.
>
> I'd also like to thank "blue sky" and "dfreas" for their helpful
> responses.
>
> Regards,
> Ian.


I knew it. There was an evil woman behind this castrophy! :)

Ian, I appologize for the "tone" of my reply. I was careful not to
call you a troll, but I did hint at the possibility. The way you
casually mentioned you had a new 25 gallon tank with 38 fish, but that
wasn't your problem, lighting was... well, it looked very suspicious to
me.

That being said, how's it going? I hope you have time to do daily
checks of ammonia and daily water changes if necessary. It is going to
be a real challange to keep that water non toxic for the first couple'a
weeks to a month. After that, a weekly water change of 50% should keep
the nitrate levels down to a healthy level.

Good luck, keep reading and asking questions.
steve

PS I'm suprised you didn't read this. It's in the next steps you
linked above.
http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/14-1.cfm

[Bill]

On 2005-04-06, Ionizer > wrote:
> I was aware of the one inch per gallon guideline, but my wife
> overruled my insights and the guy at SuperPet insisted that it was no
> problem putting this population into a 25-gallon tank so, *not* being
> an expert, I felt outnumbered and reluctantly agreed.

For what it's worth, I saw the following suggested stocking scheme for a
20 gallon tank (in writing!) at Petsmart:

1 angelfish
3 tiger barbs
1 pleco
and about 4 or 5 more fish total (of two or three varieties) that I
can't recall at the moment.

Even if you ignore the 1"/1G guideline (of which this level of stocking
is 300%), you still have other problems. Like the fact that that pleco
will get to be about 18" long if it lives -- no way it could be too
comfortable in a 24"x12" tank (assuming 20 high and not 20 long), even
ignoring the fact that it's a messy fish. And tiger barbs, from what I
understand, tend to be at least a little nippy in the best of
circumstances, and they get very nippy in groups of fewer than 6 -- this
goes very nicely with the angelfish's long fins. Speaking of the
angelfish, it will get to be 6-7" long itself and at least as tall (if
not twice as tall, depending on the species) as that. That would go
quite well in a tank that's 16" high (again, assuming 20 high, not 20
long).

Point being, many stores that sell fish don't actually care about the
fish, they only care about selling them. If they can sell you three
times the fish your aquarium can actually support, then they've just
made a bigger sale. Then they can sell you replacements when the fish
die. Then they can explain the nitrification cycle and sell you some
bacterial starter and some more fish.

(On a side note about Petsmart, anyone notice that
http://tinyurl.com/6o8pg looks awfully familiar? If that link doesn't
work, go to petsmart.com, click "Fish", then click "Good Choices for
Beginners" on the right-hand side.)

Sorry, I think that that turned into a rant. I'm just in a cynical mood
for some reason.

On a different note, our cories and bettas are doing great -- we haven't
lost a single one -- and Bio-Spira is great stuff. :-)

[Ionizer]

"steve" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I knew it. There was an evil woman behind this castrophy! :)
>
> Ian, I appologize for the "tone" of my reply. I was careful not to
> call you a troll, but I did hint at the possibility. The way you
> casually mentioned you had a new 25 gallon tank with 38 fish, but that
> wasn't your problem, lighting was... well, it looked very suspicious to
> me.
>
> That being said, how's it going? I hope you have time to do daily
> checks of ammonia and daily water changes if necessary. It is going to
> be a real challange to keep that water non toxic for the first couple'a
> weeks to a month. After that, a weekly water change of 50% should keep
> the nitrate levels down to a healthy level.
>
> Good luck, keep reading and asking questions.
> steve
>
> PS I'm suprised you didn't read this. It's in the next steps you
> linked above.
> http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/14-1.cfm
>

Oh, I read that alright. That "Basic Care Guide" came in booklet form
with our new tank and I read the whole thing. My sweetheart however, did
not. (I'm the sort of person who always reads the manual when I've
purchased something new; my wife reads only as far as the "congratulations
on your fine purchase" page and then puts it away.)

I've just done a 20% water change (replacement water treated with "Aqua
Plus") after which the ammonia test read slightly below 1.2, with a pH
reading of about 7.7. The fish continue to seem happy and active. So far
so good, but I'll continue to monitor and change their water, and add Aqua
Plus and Nutrafin "Cycle" according to the schedule in that booklet.

Not to worry about your scepticism about my first post- I always rub my
chin and activate my troll meter when someone new appears in the groups I
frequent.

Regards,
Ian.
(Now Playing: Evil Woman - Electric Light Orchestra)

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...
> dfreas wrote:
> > As far as I can tell they are almost all like that. I have found a very
> > elegant solution though. "Of course you can have that fish honey - but
> > I have all the fish I can handle right now so if you want it you'll
> > have to take care of it." The response is almost always "Oh." and then
> > no more suggestions for buying fish for the rest of the day. Give it a
> > try. But be prepaired for her to say "Ok." she might (though I think
> > it's unlikely) and if she does you have to be ready to back up your
> > suggestion and help her set up her own tank.
> >
> > -Daniel
> >
> As are non fishkeeping husbands. ;-) Only then it's "Honey, our fish
> are too small. Can we get an oscar?"
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Another one is "I expected us to get more fish in there than you've
bought".....it's not just a wife thing...it's a non-fishkeeping spouse
thing!!!! lol

[Ionizer]

"Ionizer" > wrote in message
eenews.net...

> My wife and I started up our first aquarium on the weekend, with perhaps
> a few too many fish...

Thanks very much to everyone for your insightful responses. I've begun my
schedule of aquarium maintenance on our very busy tank, and will continue
to lurk in this fine group to learn more.

Regards,
Ian.
(Now Playing: Too Many Fish In The Sea - The Marvelettes)

[Gfishery]

"Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
.. .
> Another one is "I expected us to get more fish in there than you've
> bought".....it's not just a wife thing...it's a non-fishkeeping spouse
> thing!!!! lol

But my wife/spouse did raise 6 goldfish in a 40 gallon tank for 8 years, and
now she wants more than 3 in our 10 gallon tank!
I think its the "keep adding fish until something dies" syndrome :(

[Gill Passman]

"Gfishery" > wrote in message
news.net...
>
> "Gill Passman" <gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk> wrote in message
> .. .
> > Another one is "I expected us to get more fish in there than you've
> > bought".....it's not just a wife thing...it's a non-fishkeeping spouse
> > thing!!!! lol
>
> But my wife/spouse did raise 6 goldfish in a 40 gallon tank for 8 years,
and
> now she wants more than 3 in our 10 gallon tank!
> I think its the "keep adding fish until something dies" syndrome :(
>
>
But on the other hand if you are willing to take on the additional
maintenance then this can be possible without killing off the fish. The
problem really is the assumption that you can keep adding fish with no
additional work. Now the fact that your wife kept 6 goldfish in that tank
for 8 years rather proves that she has an interest in the fish and is
willing to work at it....btw making a massive assumption here....which is
not quite the same thing as a spouse suggesting fish be added without taking
any responsiblility for it. But we would be poor fish keepers to agree to
this without assuming the onus of the additional filtration and maintenance.

I was being pretty tongue in cheek with my update....everything before
seemed to assume it is men that keep the fish and battle against the "little
woman" wanting to overstock....it can sometimes be the other way round. It
is the one that has the interest/hobby that works to keep a good balance
irrespective of sex....

And BTW I kept 6 goldfish for 6 years in a 15gall tank without probs....it
was only when we slipped on the maintenance that we lost them....it was a
big lesson learned and put me off fish keeping for 4 years until I got
bitten by the "tropical bug".

[Elaine T]

Ionizer wrote:
> "steve" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>I knew it. There was an evil woman behind this castrophy! :)
>>
>>Ian, I appologize for the "tone" of my reply. I was careful not to
>>call you a troll, but I did hint at the possibility. The way you
>>casually mentioned you had a new 25 gallon tank with 38 fish, but that
>>wasn't your problem, lighting was... well, it looked very suspicious to
>>me.
>>
>>That being said, how's it going? I hope you have time to do daily
>>checks of ammonia and daily water changes if necessary. It is going to
>>be a real challange to keep that water non toxic for the first couple'a
>>weeks to a month. After that, a weekly water change of 50% should keep
>>the nitrate levels down to a healthy level.
>>
>>Good luck, keep reading and asking questions.
>>steve
>>
>>PS I'm suprised you didn't read this. It's in the next steps you
>>linked above.
>>http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/14-1.cfm
>>
>
>
> Oh, I read that alright. That "Basic Care Guide" came in booklet form
> with our new tank and I read the whole thing. My sweetheart however, did
> not. (I'm the sort of person who always reads the manual when I've
> purchased something new; my wife reads only as far as the "congratulations
> on your fine purchase" page and then puts it away.)
>
> I've just done a 20% water change (replacement water treated with "Aqua
> Plus") after which the ammonia test read slightly below 1.2, with a pH
> reading of about 7.7. The fish continue to seem happy and active. So far
> so good, but I'll continue to monitor and change their water, and add Aqua
> Plus and Nutrafin "Cycle" according to the schedule in that booklet.
>
> Not to worry about your scepticism about my first post- I always rub my
> chin and activate my troll meter when someone new appears in the groups I
> frequent.
>
> Regards,
> Ian.
> (Now Playing: Evil Woman - Electric Light Orchestra)
>
>
When I last worked with it, Cycle was a complete waste of money. I
tried many years ago to grow bacteria from it on compete agar and
nothing colonized. OTOH, we got colonies from Aquarium Products
BioZyme. Many people here have also had luck with BioSpira, which was
not out when I tried my experiment.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[blue sky]

Cycles working for me :-) ...nearly finished cycling my 200g in 2 weeks with
nothing else...
"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
> Ionizer wrote:
>> "steve" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>
>>>I knew it. There was an evil woman behind this castrophy! :)
>>>
>>>Ian, I appologize for the "tone" of my reply. I was careful not to
>>>call you a troll, but I did hint at the possibility. The way you
>>>casually mentioned you had a new 25 gallon tank with 38 fish, but that
>>>wasn't your problem, lighting was... well, it looked very suspicious to
>>>me.
>>>
>>>That being said, how's it going? I hope you have time to do daily
>>>checks of ammonia and daily water changes if necessary. It is going to
>>>be a real challange to keep that water non toxic for the first couple'a
>>>weeks to a month. After that, a weekly water change of 50% should keep
>>>the nitrate levels down to a healthy level.
>>>
>>>Good luck, keep reading and asking questions.
>>>steve
>>>
>>>PS I'm suprised you didn't read this. It's in the next steps you
>>>linked above.
>>>http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/basic/14-1.cfm
>>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, I read that alright. That "Basic Care Guide" came in booklet form
>> with our new tank and I read the whole thing. My sweetheart however, did
>> not. (I'm the sort of person who always reads the manual when I've
>> purchased something new; my wife reads only as far as the
>> "congratulations on your fine purchase" page and then puts it away.)
>>
>> I've just done a 20% water change (replacement water treated with "Aqua
>> Plus") after which the ammonia test read slightly below 1.2, with a pH
>> reading of about 7.7. The fish continue to seem happy and active. So
>> far so good, but I'll continue to monitor and change their water, and add
>> Aqua Plus and Nutrafin "Cycle" according to the schedule in that booklet.
>>
>> Not to worry about your scepticism about my first post- I always rub my
>> chin and activate my troll meter when someone new appears in the groups I
>> frequent.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ian.
>> (Now Playing: Evil Woman - Electric Light Orchestra)
> When I last worked with it, Cycle was a complete waste of money. I tried
> many years ago to grow bacteria from it on compete agar and nothing
> colonized. OTOH, we got colonies from Aquarium Products BioZyme. Many
> people here have also had luck with BioSpira, which was not out when I
> tried my experiment.
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><