Floating plants and current

[Elaine T]

I'm finding that the water in the lower two barrels of my pond is too
turbulent for small floating plants. The water lettuce seems to ride
its way to a quiet spot against a marginal and stay, but the azolla gets
pushed under at the spillway outflow and tumbled around underwater.
Then its roots fall off and clog up the filters. I've finally netted
most of it out of the lower barrels, except for some that's more or less
"corraled" with black airline tubing because the fish need the shade.
Not exactly elegant.

Even worse, I learned that azolla fixes nitrogen. I now suspect that
the nitrogen fueling my green water is from decaying bits of azolla
roots everywhere - I had a nitrate source and didn't even know it.

I wanted lilies but don't know to tell whether conditions are OK for
them in the lower two barrels. Flow is about 200gph through the
spillways connecting the three half barrels, with the spillways ending
about 2" above the water surface for light but not excessive splash.
From watching azolla and submerged plants, the current tends to flow
down from the spillways, up on the far side of the barrel, and splits to
flow back towards the spillway around the sides. I tried to set the
ball valve at the lowest setting where all the debris (currently
Cambomba leaves and azolla roots) ends up in the bottom barrel with the
filter. The top barrel is different because it has the pump outflow at
the bottom so the surface is less disturbed.

Can anyone take a guess about lilies or suggest other large floating
plants that are tolerant of this sort of current to shade the pond? And
legal in California - I can't find water hyacinth and only got water
lettuce through a friend. Or do I have too much current?

Thanks so much...again!

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Snooze]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...

<snip>
>
> Can anyone take a guess about lilies or suggest other large floating
> plants that are tolerant of this sort of current to shade the pond? And
> legal in California - I can't find water hyacinth and only got water
> lettuce through a friend. Or do I have too much current?
>
> Thanks so much...again!

Some suggestions that others have made in the past, make a barricade by
tying nylon fish line across the pond to prevent the floaters from leaving
their area. In larger ponds, people have used hula hoops
You can get WH in California. They aren't in the nurseries yet, too early
wait a few weeks.

Summer Winds has them, for a about $2/plant
http://www.summerwindsca.com/

If you're in San Jose, Payless Nursery over on silvercreek & king carries
them as well, but a little pricy compared to summer winds.

Good luck

[Reel McKoi]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm finding that the water in the lower two barrels of my pond is too
> turbulent for small floating plants. The water lettuce seems to ride
> its way to a quiet spot against a marginal and stay, but the azolla gets
> pushed under at the spillway outflow and tumbled around underwater.
> Then its roots fall off and clog up the filters. I've finally netted
> most of it out of the lower barrels, except for some that's more or less
> "corraled" with black airline tubing because the fish need the shade.
> Not exactly elegant.
===================brevity snip!

It sounds like you have too much current in these barrels. There's too much
turbulence for the plants (and maybe the fish). I would cut that flow down
quite a bit unless you plan to stick with tough plants like water-bamboo and
Iris. Forget water lilies, they'll be miserable in the current. They like
almost still water.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Hank]

Watercress loves moving water, the faster the better. The roots do a
great job filtering and if you get too much you can have some for
lunch.

--
some photos of my little puddle
http://community.webshots.com/user/hankpage1

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm finding that the water in the lower two barrels of my pond is
> too turbulent for small floating plants. The water lettuce seems to
> ride its way to a quiet spot against a marginal and stay, but the
> azolla gets pushed under at the spillway outflow and tumbled around
> underwater. Then its roots fall off and clog up the filters. I've
> finally netted most of it out of the lower barrels, except for some
> that's more or less "corraled" with black airline tubing because the
> fish need the shade. Not exactly elegant.
>
> Even worse, I learned that azolla fixes nitrogen. I now suspect
> that the nitrogen fueling my green water is from decaying bits of
> azolla roots everywhere - I had a nitrate source and didn't even
> know it.
>
> I wanted lilies but don't know to tell whether conditions are OK for
> them in the lower two barrels. Flow is about 200gph through the
> spillways connecting the three half barrels, with the spillways
> ending about 2" above the water surface for light but not excessive
> splash. From watching azolla and submerged plants, the current tends
> to flow down from the spillways, up on the far side of the barrel,
> and splits to flow back towards the spillway around the sides. I
> tried to set the ball valve at the lowest setting where all the
> debris (currently Cambomba leaves and azolla roots) ends up in the
> bottom barrel with the filter. The top barrel is different because
> it has the pump outflow at the bottom so the surface is less
> disturbed.
>
> Can anyone take a guess about lilies or suggest other large floating
> plants that are tolerant of this sort of current to shade the pond?
> And legal in California - I can't find water hyacinth and only got
> water lettuce through a friend. Or do I have too much current?
>
> Thanks so much...again!
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>I'm finding that the water in the lower two barrels of my pond is too
>>turbulent for small floating plants. The water lettuce seems to ride
>>its way to a quiet spot against a marginal and stay, but the azolla gets
>>pushed under at the spillway outflow and tumbled around underwater.
>>Then its roots fall off and clog up the filters. I've finally netted
>>most of it out of the lower barrels, except for some that's more or less
>>"corraled" with black airline tubing because the fish need the shade.
>>Not exactly elegant.
>
> ===================brevity snip!
>
> It sounds like you have too much current in these barrels. There's too much
> turbulence for the plants (and maybe the fish). I would cut that flow down
> quite a bit unless you plan to stick with tough plants like water-bamboo and
> Iris. Forget water lilies, they'll be miserable in the current. They like
> almost still water.

I turned the pump back quite a bit and suddenly, fish appeared!
Floating plants aren't moving nearly as much either. Now maybe I know
why the fish been jumping out. Wish I'd figured that out BEFORE I did
the 50% water change this evening. :-| I checked here on pump size
before buying it too.

Are Pondmaster Pond-mag pumps OK pumping against a ball valve closed
about halfway? I know they're designed to handle quite a bit of head.
Mine's 350 gph pumping at 2 ft head - I had the ball valve closed a bit
(thus my estimate of 200 gph), but not halfway like it is now. If
they're not OK against back pressure, I'll auction it off at the
aquarium society meeting this weekend and get a smaller one.

Thanks!

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Reel McKoi]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
m...
>> Are Pondmaster Pond-mag pumps OK pumping against a ball valve closed
> about halfway? I know they're designed to handle quite a bit of head.
> Mine's 350 gph pumping at 2 ft head - I had the ball valve closed a bit
> (thus my estimate of 200 gph), but not halfway like it is now. If
> they're not OK against back pressure, I'll auction it off at the
> aquarium society meeting this weekend and get a smaller one.
==========================
I was told the more "back pressure" on a pump the faster it wears out. I
don't know thought as I don't cut mine back. You may want a smaller pump.
Someone else may have more experience with this.

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Elaine T]

Snooze wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> <snip>
>
>>Can anyone take a guess about lilies or suggest other large floating
>>plants that are tolerant of this sort of current to shade the pond? And
>>legal in California - I can't find water hyacinth and only got water
>>lettuce through a friend. Or do I have too much current?
>>
>>Thanks so much...again!
>
>
> Some suggestions that others have made in the past, make a barricade by
> tying nylon fish line across the pond to prevent the floaters from leaving
> their area. In larger ponds, people have used hula hoops
> You can get WH in California. They aren't in the nurseries yet, too early
> wait a few weeks.
>
> Summer Winds has them, for a about $2/plant
> http://www.summerwindsca.com/
>
> If you're in San Jose, Payless Nursery over on silvercreek & king carries
> them as well, but a little pricy compared to summer winds.
>
> Good luck
>
>
I'm in San Diego, well south of San Jose. I forget how much warmer my
tubs are than in-ground ponds. I've got 68-70 degrees now. I'll keep
an eye on Summer Winds for they they start shipping WH, because that's
definately a plant I want.

I've made a small barricade around the spillways with leftover black
1/2" tubing that's keeping things from being a complete disaster, but
the fishing line sounds both less intrusive and more effective. That
plus turning down the water flow should help a lot. Thanks!

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Hank wrote:
> Watercress loves moving water, the faster the better. The roots do a
> great job filtering and if you get too much you can have some for
> lunch.
>
I tried to buy some at a nursery yestery and the guy sold me upland
cress saying it would grow in the water. I got home and looked it up by
its latin name, and he was dead wrong. Into the herb garden it goes.
I'm headed for the snazzy gourmet grocery store this weekend in search
of the right plant. It sounds like a great addition to a pond.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Snooze]

"Hank" > wrote in message
news:SvF5e.1420$4v3.1064@trndny03...
> Watercress loves moving water, the faster the better. The roots do a great
> job filtering and if you get too much you can have some for lunch.
>

For some reason, people don't mind eatting watercress and waterchestnuts
that have been grown in an unseen pond miles from home, but have a problem
with watercress grown in their own pond...

-S

[Elaine T]

Snooze wrote:
> "Hank" > wrote in message
> news:SvF5e.1420$4v3.1064@trndny03...
>
>>Watercress loves moving water, the faster the better. The roots do a great
>>job filtering and if you get too much you can have some for lunch.
>>
>
>
> For some reason, people don't mind eatting watercress and waterchestnuts
> that have been grown in an unseen pond miles from home, but have a problem
> with watercress grown in their own pond...
>
> -S
>
>
Water chestnuts??? I can grow fresh water chestnuts? Yum! *bounce*
I have no problem whatsoever eating from my pond. Heck, I'm watering
planters of herbs with water from my pond and the're growing like weeds.
Can't beat fish water for fertilizer plus the extra humidity from the
pond keeps the planters from drying out as fast.

Off to Google for water chestnuts...

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Hank]

Watercress: Don't waste your money on potted plant. It sprouts from
cuttings very quickly.
I get a small pre-cut package from the supermarket every year. I just
throw it in the waterfall and very soon I get .....
http://image38.webshots.com/38/4/44/12/318844412fxHwEW_ph.jpg
a nice touch to the waterfall and a tasty snack too. I don't mind
eating it out of my pond because ... " MY fish would never do any of
those nasty things in the water!"

--
some photos of my little puddle
http://community.webshots.com/user/hankpage1

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...
> Snooze wrote:
>> "Hank" > wrote in message
>> news:SvF5e.1420$4v3.1064@trndny03...
>>
>>>Watercress loves moving water, the faster the better. The roots do
>>>a great job filtering and if you get too much you can have some for
>>>lunch.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For some reason, people don't mind eatting watercress and
>> waterchestnuts that have been grown in an unseen pond miles from
>> home, but have a problem with watercress grown in their own pond...
>>
>> -S
> Water chestnuts??? I can grow fresh water chestnuts? Yum!
> *bounce* I have no problem whatsoever eating from my pond. Heck,
> I'm watering planters of herbs with water from my pond and the're
> growing like weeds. Can't beat fish water for fertilizer plus the
> extra humidity from the pond keeps the planters from drying out as
> fast.
>
> Off to Google for water chestnuts...
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Hank]

Water chestnuts: May be considered invasive in your area.
http://www.iisgcp.org/EXOTICSP/waterchestnut.htm
But they sound tasty also.

--
some photos of my little puddle
http://community.webshots.com/user/hankpage1

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
om...
> Snooze wrote:
>> "Hank" > wrote in message
>> news:SvF5e.1420$4v3.1064@trndny03...
>>
>>>Watercress loves moving water, the faster the better. The roots do
>>>a great job filtering and if you get too much you can have some for
>>>lunch.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For some reason, people don't mind eatting watercress and
>> waterchestnuts that have been grown in an unseen pond miles from
>> home, but have a problem with watercress grown in their own pond...
>>
>> -S
> Water chestnuts??? I can grow fresh water chestnuts? Yum!
> *bounce* I have no problem whatsoever eating from my pond. Heck,
> I'm watering planters of herbs with water from my pond and the're
> growing like weeds. Can't beat fish water for fertilizer plus the
> extra humidity from the pond keeps the planters from drying out as
> fast.
>
> Off to Google for water chestnuts...
>
> --
> __ Elaine T __
> ><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Snooze]

"Hank" > wrote in message
news:81d6e.2029$4v3.1049@trndny03...
> Water chestnuts: May be considered invasive in your area.
> http://www.iisgcp.org/EXOTICSP/waterchestnut.htm
> But they sound tasty also.
>

I think there are two kinds of water chestnuts, the ones that states like
Massachusetts have been battling are a different kind from the ones sold in
asian grocery stores. Last year I bought a bag of fresh water chestnuts from
an asian grocery store. It sprouted into a sort of grassy like plant. Didn't
look like the picture in that url. I also didn't get it to produce anything
more then the grass like shoots.

Maybe your luck will be better.

-S