Re: Newbie with high Ammonia

[js1]

On 2005-04-11, teri > wrote:
> So... what are your thoughts? And if I do the water changes, do I
> still use the Ammo-Lock??
>

http://honors.montana.edu/~weif/firsttank/cycle.phtml
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[NetMax]

"teri" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hi All. I am just starting out, and pleased to meet everyone.
> Unfortunately, we have trouble already and I am learning best by
> experience. Just have a small tank - 3 gallons with a filter and bio
> wheel. I am starting with three platies, which I now see why I should
> have started with less. So I got the fish Tuesday evening and all was
> great until yesterday. Since yesterday afternoon the one fish is
> mainly hanging around the top, or bottom, and has not eaten today.
> And she had been the feistiest of the bunch. Took water to be tested
> and of course the ammonia is too high. Now I have gotten conflicting
> thoughts on how to best go about this. Pet store gave me Ammo Lock
> which I put in right away, and was told to repeat in a few days. No
> water changes for about 6 weeks while the "tank" sets itself up. Now
> someone else, and I have read, says to do frequent water changes
> (every day or two) for now and I was given AmQuel to treat the water
> used in the change.
> So... what are your thoughts? And if I do the water changes, do I
> still use the Ammo-Lock??
>
> TIA,
> Teri

Reduce your feeding (just adding to the problem) and get ready to be
doing huge water changes often. Ammo-lock just detoxifies ammonia, which
will later turn into nitrites, which will then kill your fish (they don't
have a nitrite-lock do they?). Water changes are your friend. You
probably cannot do enough partial water changes to adversely affect the
cycling (good thing), but you can do enough to keep the fish well. Keep
using your dechlorinator though.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mary Burns]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> "teri" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Hi All. I am just starting out, and pleased to meet everyone.
>> Unfortunately, we have trouble already and I am learning best by
>> experience. Just have a small tank - 3 gallons with a filter and bio
>> wheel. I am starting with three platies, which I now see why I should
>> have started with less. So I got the fish Tuesday evening and all was
>> great until yesterday. Since yesterday afternoon the one fish is
>> mainly hanging around the top, or bottom, and has not eaten today.
>> And she had been the feistiest of the bunch. Took water to be tested
>> and of course the ammonia is too high. Now I have gotten conflicting
>> thoughts on how to best go about this. Pet store gave me Ammo Lock
>> which I put in right away, and was told to repeat in a few days. No
>> water changes for about 6 weeks while the "tank" sets itself up. Now
>> someone else, and I have read, says to do frequent water changes
>> (every day or two) for now and I was given AmQuel to treat the water
>> used in the change.
>> So... what are your thoughts? And if I do the water changes, do I
>> still use the Ammo-Lock??
>>
>> TIA,
>> Teri
>
> Reduce your feeding (just adding to the problem) and get ready to be doing
> huge water changes often. Ammo-lock just detoxifies ammonia, which will
> later turn into nitrites, which will then kill your fish (they don't have
> a nitrite-lock do they?). Water changes are your friend. You probably
> cannot do enough partial water changes to adversely affect the cycling
> (good thing), but you can do enough to keep the fish well. Keep using
> your dechlorinator though.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>Please try and get a bigger tank as platies do much better in large tanks
>and bigger numbers. My platies are in 45g and 65g tanks. I know LFS will
>say platies are ok , 1m and 2 female in a 10g, but that just isn't the
>point. Females can grow to 3" body + tail in the right size tank. Mary

[Elaine T]

teri wrote:
> Hi All. I am just starting out, and pleased to meet everyone.
> Unfortunately, we have trouble already and I am learning best by
> experience. Just have a small tank - 3 gallons with a filter and bio
> wheel. I am starting with three platies, which I now see why I should
> have started with less. So I got the fish Tuesday evening and all was
> great until yesterday. Since yesterday afternoon the one fish is
> mainly hanging around the top, or bottom, and has not eaten today.
> And she had been the feistiest of the bunch. Took water to be tested
> and of course the ammonia is too high. Now I have gotten conflicting
> thoughts on how to best go about this. Pet store gave me Ammo Lock
> which I put in right away, and was told to repeat in a few days. No
> water changes for about 6 weeks while the "tank" sets itself up. Now
> someone else, and I have read, says to do frequent water changes
> (every day or two) for now and I was given AmQuel to treat the water
> used in the change.
> So... what are your thoughts? And if I do the water changes, do I
> still use the Ammo-Lock??
>
> TIA,
> Teri

Change half the water every day or two until the "cycle" is through and
there is no more ammonia or nitrite in your tank. Sometimes, big tanks
with very few fish don't build up enough ammonia or nitrite to cycle
properly. That's why people say not to change water. You will not have
this problem. ;-)

If your tap water has chloramine in it, you will need to neutralize the
chloramine with either Ammo-Lock or AmQuel. Both do exactly the same
thing, so you only need one. If you test the water and there is still
ammonia, you also neutralize it with Ammo-Lock or AmQuel. You should
probably get your own test kit - you're going to have a lot of ammonia
and nitrites in the tank. For ammonia, get a salicylate test kit like
dry-tab (the color change is yellow to green, not clear to
yellow-orante). Nessler kits will give false readings with AmQuel or
Ammo-Lock.

After the ammonia comes nitrite, and the only way to handle that is to
change lots of water. Try to keep the tank below 1 ppm nitrites with
water changes.

You might also want to consider adding a live bacterial culture like
BioSpira to your tank. It will help the filter get started and reduce
the stress on your fish. Add one dose when ammonia is high, and a
second when nitrite is high.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Bill]

On 2005-04-11, NetMax > wrote:
> (they don't have a nitrite-lock do they?)

Not specifically, but AmQuel+ (not AmQuel) is claimed to detoxify
nitrite, in addition to detoxifying ammonia and destroying chlorine.
They also claim that it breaks down nitrate and dyes such as potassium
permanganate and malachite green.

http://www.novalek.com/kpd79.htm

[teri]

>Change half the water every day or two until the "cycle" is through and
>there is no more ammonia or nitrite in your tank. Sometimes, big tanks
>with very few fish don't build up enough ammonia or nitrite to cycle
>properly. That's why people say not to change water. You will not have
>this problem. ;-)
So even changing the water that often there is still enough buildup to
achieve the cycling in my small tank - I get it.

>If your tap water has chloramine in it, you will need to neutralize the
>chloramine with either Ammo-Lock or AmQuel. Both do exactly the same
>thing, so you only need one. If you test the water and there is still
>ammonia, you also neutralize it with Ammo-Lock or AmQuel.
But do I get this? - you treat the water that you use for the water
changes with the AmQuel, and you can also put more drops into the tank
to lower the ammonia? Sorry for being so simple.


>You should
>probably get your own test kit - you're going to have a lot of ammonia
>and nitrites in the tank. For ammonia, get a salicylate test kit like
>dry-tab (the color change is yellow to green, not clear to
>yellow-orante). Nessler kits will give false readings with AmQuel or
>Ammo-Lock.
Hmm. I guess I have the wrong kind of test kit for now then - back
to Petco...

>After the ammonia comes nitrite, and the only way to handle that is to
>change lots of water. Try to keep the tank below 1 ppm nitrites with
>water changes.
Does the AmQuel (I have the Plus acutally I see) change the test
results of the nitrite? Because it tested today and yesterday at 0 -
0.25.

>You might also want to consider adding a live bacterial culture like
>BioSpira to your tank. It will help the filter get started and reduce
>the stress on your fish. Add one dose when ammonia is high, and a
>second when nitrite is high.

Thanks for your help! For now, two of the fish are still active and
seem fine. The blue girl is active at intervals, but still is
spending most of her time hanging at the top, or laying on the bottom
of the tank, but she is eating a little again.
Teri

[[email protected]]

Change half your water twice each day for 2 months while your tank
cycles. This is not going to be fun.

[Elaine T]

teri wrote:
>>Change half the water every day or two until the "cycle" is through and
>>there is no more ammonia or nitrite in your tank. Sometimes, big tanks
>>with very few fish don't build up enough ammonia or nitrite to cycle
>>properly. That's why people say not to change water. You will not have
>>this problem. ;-)
>
> So even changing the water that often there is still enough buildup to
> achieve the cycling in my small tank - I get it.
>
>
>>If your tap water has chloramine in it, you will need to neutralize the
>>chloramine with either Ammo-Lock or AmQuel. Both do exactly the same
>>thing, so you only need one. If you test the water and there is still
>>ammonia, you also neutralize it with Ammo-Lock or AmQuel.
>
> But do I get this? - you treat the water that you use for the water
> changes with the AmQuel, and you can also put more drops into the tank
> to lower the ammonia? Sorry for being so simple.
>
You're right, you simply add more drops of AmQuel+ or Ammo-Lock to lower
the ammonia. They're very safe to use.
>
>>You should
>>probably get your own test kit - you're going to have a lot of ammonia
>>and nitrites in the tank. For ammonia, get a salicylate test kit like
>>dry-tab (the color change is yellow to green, not clear to
>>yellow-orante). Nessler kits will give false readings with AmQuel or
>>Ammo-Lock.
>
> Hmm. I guess I have the wrong kind of test kit for now then - back
> to Petco...
>
>
>>After the ammonia comes nitrite, and the only way to handle that is to
>>change lots of water. Try to keep the tank below 1 ppm nitrites with
>>water changes.
>
> Does the AmQuel (I have the Plus acutally I see) change the test
> results of the nitrite? Because it tested today and yesterday at 0 -
> 0.25.
>
I've never used AmQuel Plus. However, Kordon's website says that
nitrite and nitrate test kits work. That means you're measuring free,
toxic nitrite with your kit.
>
>>You might also want to consider adding a live bacterial culture like
>>BioSpira to your tank. It will help the filter get started and reduce
>>the stress on your fish. Add one dose when ammonia is high, and a
>>second when nitrite is high.
>
>
> Thanks for your help! For now, two of the fish are still active and
> seem fine. The blue girl is active at intervals, but still is
> spending most of her time hanging at the top, or laying on the bottom
> of the tank, but she is eating a little again.
> Teri

You're welcome. Hope things work out.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[teri]

>You're welcome. Hope things work out.
It is starting to look like I was not meant to have fish afterall...

I have been changing 25-30% of the water each day with AmQuel + in the
new water, and testing for Nitrites. The blue fish who was the only
one who was not looking good starting last Sunday is not looking any
better. She mainly lays on the bottom of the tank, her fins flat down
on her body instead of the pretty spread out shark appearance she had
had. She occasionally eats a little, but mostly she tries, then spits
the food out, she isn't growing, unless you count growing skinny. The
tests I did today show pH - 7.4, Nitrite 0 - 0.25 (in all my years as
a nurse I always did have trouble matching colors of test tapes and
chem strips), Ammonia looks like 0.5 - 1, but it is the test that I
don't think is accurate anyway due to the AmQuel or Ammo Lock but I
can't find the other kind yet. Tank temp 78 - 80 with the light on,
few degrees lower when it is off. So I come home from work today at 4
and the "good" two fish are swimming around like crazy, having a good
ole time. I feed them, they eat and blue one tries. Ever since then
though everyone is just hanging around just floating mid tank. Barely
any swimming here, swimming there, flapping all over... just
hanging. This does not seem to be good. Maybe I wasn't meant for
this afterall....
teri :-(

[Elaine T]

teri wrote:
>>You're welcome. Hope things work out.
>
> It is starting to look like I was not meant to have fish afterall...
>
> I have been changing 25-30% of the water each day with AmQuel + in the
> new water, and testing for Nitrites. The blue fish who was the only
> one who was not looking good starting last Sunday is not looking any
> better. She mainly lays on the bottom of the tank, her fins flat down
> on her body instead of the pretty spread out shark appearance she had
> had. She occasionally eats a little, but mostly she tries, then spits
> the food out, she isn't growing, unless you count growing skinny. The
> tests I did today show pH - 7.4, Nitrite 0 - 0.25 (in all my years as
> a nurse I always did have trouble matching colors of test tapes and
> chem strips), Ammonia looks like 0.5 - 1, but it is the test that I
> don't think is accurate anyway due to the AmQuel or Ammo Lock but I
> can't find the other kind yet. Tank temp 78 - 80 with the light on,
> few degrees lower when it is off. So I come home from work today at 4
> and the "good" two fish are swimming around like crazy, having a good
> ole time. I feed them, they eat and blue one tries. Ever since then
> though everyone is just hanging around just floating mid tank. Barely
> any swimming here, swimming there, flapping all over... just
> hanging. This does not seem to be good. Maybe I wasn't meant for
> this afterall....
> teri :-(

The start is the hardest, especially with too many fish. Your platy
sounds actually sick rather than just ammonia/nitrite poisoned, and was
possibly that way from the store - the best way to heal a fish is a
healthy cycled tank, and of course you don't have that yet. Brace
yourself, because the blue one may die.

The others who are still and hanging quietly are suffering from nitrite
poisoning. Be sure there's plenty of splash from their filter to aerate
the water and gradually add salt (any salt without an anti-caking agent
is fine) to a total of 1 tsp/gallon. When you change water, add 1 tsp
to the water you put back to keep the amount of salt the same. Try to
keep nitrites below 1 ppm, and definately below 2 ppm with water changes
and AmQuel+.

Nitrite is a good sign, because it means the ammonia-eating bacteria are
starting to grow and make nitrite so hang in there!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com