Newbie Question: Gravel Depth and Aeration

[Guido]

A few questions for you guys today.

I'm setting up a 33 Gal 36" x 12.6" x 18" (Hagen All-Glass A-3023) tank
soon, and I'm getting all the bits and pieces I need, but I can't seem
to find an answer to either of these questions through Google.

How deep should me gravel be? This is a freshwater tank, and I know it
should probably be a darker colour, but an exact depth is never really
specified anywhere I look. Is 2 inches (average, I know it should be
varied) too much? Also, is there a magic formula I can use so that I
don't end up buying too much extra gravel? Would one 25 pound bag do
the job?

Second question has to do with aeration. In the tank I had when I was
little, I had an air stone to help with aeration, but no filter for a
long time, so I think we just kept the air stone, because we didn't know
that a hang-on-back filter could aerate as well. My question is, is the
filter going to do the trick for aeration, or should I get an air pump
as well? The filter I'm using is an Aquaclear 200.

Thanks for any info you can provide!

Gord

[George Pontis]

In article >,
says...
> A few questions for you guys today.
>
> I'm setting up a 33 Gal 36" x 12.6" x 18" (Hagen All-Glass A-3023) tank
> soon, and I'm getting all the bits and pieces I need, but I can't seem
> to find an answer to either of these questions through Google.
>
> How deep should me gravel be? This is a freshwater tank, and I know it
> should probably be a darker colour, but an exact depth is never really
> specified anywhere I look. Is 2 inches (average, I know it should be
> varied) too much? Also, is there a magic formula I can use so that I
> don't end up buying too much extra gravel? Would one 25 pound bag do
> the job?

There is no one right answer to how much. If you are not going to grow plants then
you have many options for gravel and I think 25lb will give you adequate coverage,
maybe more like 1". The bags sometimes have coverage information.

If you intend to grow plants then you need to do some research on exactly what you
want to use for substrate, but it probably won't be the large, epoxy coated
pebbles. Possibly sand, flourite, or other non-conventional materials. You would
also be aiming for that 2" depth or a bit more.

> Second question has to do with aeration. In the tank I had when I was
> little, I had an air stone to help with aeration, but no filter for a
> long time, so I think we just kept the air stone, because we didn't know
> that a hang-on-back filter could aerate as well. My question is, is the
> filter going to do the trick for aeration, or should I get an air pump
> as well? The filter I'm using is an Aquaclear 200.

All these power filters provide enough surface agitation that a bubbler is not
needed. But the AquaClear 200, is that rated for only 20 gallons ? If so you you
had better keep stocking to a minimum. Alternatively, you could consider one of
the models with a wet-dry section. Marineland makes ones with a biowheel that are
a good bet.

[Guido]

George Pontis wrote:
> There is no one right answer to how much. If you are not going to grow plants then
> you have many options for gravel and I think 25lb will give you adequate coverage,
> maybe more like 1". The bags sometimes have coverage information.
>
> If you intend to grow plants then you need to do some research on exactly what you
> want to use for substrate, but it probably won't be the large, epoxy coated
> pebbles. Possibly sand, flourite, or other non-conventional materials. You would
> also be aiming for that 2" depth or a bit more.
>

I was planning on sticking with artificial plants this time around,
since I'm re-learning how to take care of an aquarium since it was so
long ago. So, that's good news, thanks for the info!

>
> All these power filters provide enough surface agitation that a bubbler is not
> needed. But the AquaClear 200, is that rated for only 20 gallons ? If so you you
> had better keep stocking to a minimum. Alternatively, you could consider one of
> the models with a wet-dry section. Marineland makes ones with a biowheel that are
> a good bet.

You had me concerned there, for a sec, but I just double-checked on
Google and this site, as well as a bunch of others, says that it's max
capacity is 50 Gal http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod128.htm I
think I'm interpreting that right, maybe you could explain, if I'm
wrong. Again, thanks for the help!

[lgb]

In article >,
says...
> I was planning on sticking with artificial plants this time around,
> since I'm re-learning how to take care of an aquarium since it was so
> long ago. So, that's good news, thanks for the info!
>
You might want to reconsider. Real plants do quite a good job of eating
up the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate byproducts of the fish and not only keep
the tank healthier, they may prevent or at least lessen algae.

And as another beginner, I found that they're not hard to grow. In
fact, I recently pulled up a big double handful of pygmy chain sword
plants because they had completely covered the bottom.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Elaine T]

Guido wrote:
> George Pontis wrote:
>
>> There is no one right answer to how much. If you are not going to grow
>> plants then you have many options for gravel and I think 25lb will
>> give you adequate coverage, maybe more like 1". The bags sometimes
>> have coverage information.
>>
>> If you intend to grow plants then you need to do some research on
>> exactly what you want to use for substrate, but it probably won't be
>> the large, epoxy coated pebbles. Possibly sand, flourite, or other
>> non-conventional materials. You would also be aiming for that 2" depth
>> or a bit more.
>>
>
> I was planning on sticking with artificial plants this time around,
> since I'm re-learning how to take care of an aquarium since it was so
> long ago. So, that's good news, thanks for the info!

As a person incapable of even jarring a betta without some java moss, I
have to ask you to reconsider running a plantless tank. Plants
dramatically increase the water quality and there are plenty that will
grow under lower lighting conditions. I'd suggest setting up your tank
with 2" of fine natural gravel. It's not much harder to vacuum and that
way if you want to put a plant here and there, you can add a fertilizer
tablet at the roots and you will have enough gravel for the plant to grow.

>> All these power filters provide enough surface agitation that a
>> bubbler is not needed. But the AquaClear 200, is that rated for only
>> 20 gallons ? If so you you had better keep stocking to a minimum.
>> Alternatively, you could consider one of the models with a wet-dry
>> section. Marineland makes ones with a biowheel that are a good bet.
>
>
> You had me concerned there, for a sec, but I just double-checked on
> Google and this site, as well as a bunch of others, says that it's max
> capacity is 50 Gal http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod128.htm I
> think I'm interpreting that right, maybe you could explain, if I'm
> wrong. Again, thanks for the help!

An aquaclear 200 is the right size, but George makes a good point about
bio wheels. If you don't have many plants, a filter with a wet/dry
section like a bio wheel breaks down dissolved organics and keeps the
water quality much higher.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Guido]

Elaine T wrote:
> Guido wrote:
>
>> George Pontis wrote:
>>
>>> There is no one right answer to how much. If you are not going to
>>> grow plants then you have many options for gravel and I think 25lb
>>> will give you adequate coverage, maybe more like 1". The bags
>>> sometimes have coverage information.
>>>
>>> If you intend to grow plants then you need to do some research on
>>> exactly what you want to use for substrate, but it probably won't be
>>> the large, epoxy coated pebbles. Possibly sand, flourite, or other
>>> non-conventional materials. You would also be aiming for that 2"
>>> depth or a bit more.
>>>
>>
>> I was planning on sticking with artificial plants this time around,
>> since I'm re-learning how to take care of an aquarium since it was so
>> long ago. So, that's good news, thanks for the info!
>
>
> As a person incapable of even jarring a betta without some java moss, I
> have to ask you to reconsider running a plantless tank. Plants
> dramatically increase the water quality and there are plenty that will
> grow under lower lighting conditions. I'd suggest setting up your tank
> with 2" of fine natural gravel. It's not much harder to vacuum and that
> way if you want to put a plant here and there, you can add a fertilizer
> tablet at the roots and you will have enough gravel for the plant to grow.
>

Hmm... now I've got to consider this. When you're using plants, do you
usually put a layer of substrate below some pebbly gravel? Do you
happen to have any good websites for plant information? I'm thinking of
getting started with some tetras, so I'd have to aim for a plant that
likes that same kind of pH, right?

[David]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:03:26 -0400, Guido
> wrote:
> Do you
>happen to have any good websites for plant information? I'm thinking of
>getting started with some tetras, so I'd have to aim for a plant that
>likes that same kind of pH, right?


Try: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants

[Billy]

"David" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:03:26 -0400, Guido
> > wrote:
>> Do you
>>happen to have any good websites for plant information? I'm
>>thinking of
>>getting started with some tetras, so I'd have to aim for a plant
>>that
>>likes that same kind of pH, right?
>
>
> Try: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants

And
http://home.infinet.net/teban/index.html
http://faq.thekrib.com/plant.html

Billy
-----
Some Guy

[Elaine T]

Guido wrote:
> Elaine T wrote:
>
>> Guido wrote:
>>
>>> George Pontis wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is no one right answer to how much. If you are not going to
>>>> grow plants then you have many options for gravel and I think 25lb
>>>> will give you adequate coverage, maybe more like 1". The bags
>>>> sometimes have coverage information.
>>>>
>>>> If you intend to grow plants then you need to do some research on
>>>> exactly what you want to use for substrate, but it probably won't be
>>>> the large, epoxy coated pebbles. Possibly sand, flourite, or other
>>>> non-conventional materials. You would also be aiming for that 2"
>>>> depth or a bit more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I was planning on sticking with artificial plants this time around,
>>> since I'm re-learning how to take care of an aquarium since it was so
>>> long ago. So, that's good news, thanks for the info!
>>
>>
>>
>> As a person incapable of even jarring a betta without some java moss,
>> I have to ask you to reconsider running a plantless tank. Plants
>> dramatically increase the water quality and there are plenty that will
>> grow under lower lighting conditions. I'd suggest setting up your
>> tank with 2" of fine natural gravel. It's not much harder to vacuum
>> and that way if you want to put a plant here and there, you can add a
>> fertilizer tablet at the roots and you will have enough gravel for the
>> plant to grow.
>>
>
> Hmm... now I've got to consider this. When you're using plants, do you
> usually put a layer of substrate below some pebbly gravel? Do you
> happen to have any good websites for plant information? I'm thinking of
> getting started with some tetras, so I'd have to aim for a plant that
> likes that same kind of pH, right?

Any gravel or sand 2-3 mm or smaller that allows plants to root in it is
fine for a basic planted tank. Plants can't root and spread in pebbly
gravel. If you use plain gravel, you need to put laterite (an iron rich
clay) tablets at the roots of crypts and swordplants. There are some
new high-tech substrates, Fluorish, Eco Complete, and Onyx, which are
porous clay with minerals plants need at a particle size designed for
plant roots. If you use one, you don't have to fertilize the substrate.

As for pH, you will have the best success if you keep your tank at your
local tapwater pH. Fish HATE pH changes and if you use chemicals to
adjust your pH, then the pH can change at every water change! Most
community fish and plants do fine at pH 6.5 to pH 8. This includes just
about every species of tetra. As in gardening, choosing plants for your
level of lighting is the most important consideration, followed by
appropriate size.

I actually wouldn't recommend you start with a high light tank because
they're fiddly. Algae can grow awfully fast when things get out of
balance. 1-1.5 watts/gallon will let you grow java moss, java fern,
Anubias spp. and many species of cryptocorynes, without too much algae.
Plan your eventual fish load for a few otocinclus, a bristle nose
pleco, and a siamese algae eater and your plants and tank will be mostly
very neatly cleaned of algae.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[lgb]

In article >, eetmail-
says...
> Any gravel or sand 2-3 mm or smaller that allows plants to root in it is
> fine for a basic planted tank. Plants can't root and spread in pebbly
> gravel. If you use plain gravel, you need to put laterite (an iron rich
> clay) tablets at the roots of crypts and swordplants. There are some
> new high-tech substrates, Fluorish, Eco Complete, and Onyx, which are
> porous clay with minerals plants need at a particle size designed for
> plant roots. If you use one, you don't have to fertilize the substrate.
>
I used Eco-Complete mixed with sand and was very satisfied with it. It
is a little pricy, but sure makes the plants happy.

BTW, as we've discussed here before, if you take traction sand and sieve
out the really fine stuff, you've got the right size of coarse sand or
fine gravel you need for plants. It may be too late to get any this
spring unless you live in the far north, but it's hard to beat the
price. IIRC, I paid $5 for a 60 pound bag.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[[email protected]]

Guido wrote:
> A few questions for you guys today.
>
> I'm setting up a 33 Gal 36" x 12.6" x 18" (Hagen All-Glass A-3023)
tank
> soon, and I'm getting all the bits and pieces I need, but I can't
seem
> to find an answer to either of these questions through Google.
>
> How deep should me gravel be? This is a freshwater tank, and I know
it
> should probably be a darker colour, but an exact depth is never
really
> specified anywhere I look. Is 2 inches (average, I know it should be

> varied) too much? Also, is there a magic formula I can use so that I

> don't end up buying too much extra gravel? Would one 25 pound bag do

> the job?
>
How much gravel depends on whether you are going to be planting
anything in the gravel. If not, just have enough to cover the bottom.
A 25 pound bag is barely enough.

> Second question has to do with aeration. In the tank I had when I
was
> little, I had an air stone to help with aeration, but no filter for a

> long time, so I think we just kept the air stone, because we didn't
know
> that a hang-on-back filter could aerate as well. My question is, is
the
> filter going to do the trick for aeration, or should I get an air
pump
> as well? The filter I'm using is an Aquaclear 200.
>
It depends on the fish you keep. If the noise doesn't bother you, keep
the air pump on.

> Thanks for any info you can provide!
>
> Gord

[Lisa]

Question: can you gravel vac using a Python-type cleaner, if you have
Eco-Complete and/or sand as substrate? I am interested in converting
to a planted tank, but my 50-G bowfront seems quite stable and "happy"
with the larger gravel, plastic plants, and using my Python every week
to clean the gunk with 25% water changes. I've never had a good handle
on how one cleans a planted tank . . .

- Lisa in Central Coast, CA

[lgb]

In article . com>,
says...
> Question: can you gravel vac using a Python-type cleaner, if you have
> Eco-Complete and/or sand as substrate? I am interested in converting
> to a planted tank, but my 50-G bowfront seems quite stable and "happy"
> with the larger gravel, plastic plants, and using my Python every week
> to clean the gunk with 25% water changes. I've never had a good handle
> on how one cleans a planted tank . . .
>
How? I don't. Well, my cory cats and otos do :-). I do clip a few
dead leaves from time to time and remove a little algae occasionally.

Stuff doesn't filter down into sand and fine gravel the way it does to
the pet store stuff.

Note that this is advice from a relative newbie - YMMV.


--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

[Dick]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:13:44 -0700, lgb > wrote:

>In article . com>,
says...
>> Question: can you gravel vac using a Python-type cleaner, if you have
>> Eco-Complete and/or sand as substrate? I am interested in converting
>> to a planted tank, but my 50-G bowfront seems quite stable and "happy"
>> with the larger gravel, plastic plants, and using my Python every week
>> to clean the gunk with 25% water changes. I've never had a good handle
>> on how one cleans a planted tank . . .
>>
>How? I don't. Well, my cory cats and otos do :-). I do clip a few
>dead leaves from time to time and remove a little algae occasionally.

Same for me, I don't.

>
>Stuff doesn't filter down into sand and fine gravel the way it does to
>the pet store stuff.
>
>Note that this is advice from a relative newbie - YMMV.

I change 20% of the tank water, twice weekly. I don't clean anything,
just change water. I have 5 tanks and have followed this procedure
for 2 years. I use the Gravel Vac for the 2 large tanks, 29 and
75gal, and don't have a problem with the chlorine. I just take the
water out of the tank and use the kitchen faucet to mix to the right
temperature and the Gravel Vac to replace the tank water. It works
for me. I figure, the simpler my procedure, the more likely I will
stick to a schedule.

All my tanks have live plants, the gravel varies from fine sand to 1/4
inch diameter gravel. The lights are all in the "low light" ratio
region, so are the plants.

dick