Re: Shubunkin Oddity

[George]

"Otto Pylot" > wrote in message
...
> We installed our pond last July. 1200 gallons, 10x12x2, with a vigouous
> 4' waterfall meandering down a 6' stream. Lots of rocks with lots of
> places for fish to hide. Decent plant coverage with water poppies and
> parrot feathers plus a few odds and ends. Water is clear with a hint of
> algae. 4 shubunkins (2 "white" and 2 "spotted") and mosquito fish too
> numerous to count. The shubunkins have grown quite a lot since last
> July.

Hmmm. 10'x12'x2' = 240 ft^3 = 1795.32 gallons. Just so you know

> Here's the oddity. About a month ago we noticed that one of the spotted
> shubies was missing. A few days later he(she) re-appeared. The
> following day, it was gone again. The next day, we watched the other
> spotted one go into one of the rock caves. It never came out as far as
> we know and it has been almost 2 weeks now since we've seen either one.
> The two white ones seemed to get very agitated and chased each other
> around the pond more than normal. Then they went into the rock caves
> and were gone for a day or two. The other day we watched them
> tentatively poke their noses out of the caves and then dash around the
> pond and go into the rock caves on the other side. Whenever they came
> out, they would always dash around like they were "afraid". They'd eat
> and then hide. Today, they were just cruising around the pond like
> nothing had ever happened and all was well. We still haven't seen the
> two spotted ones. So, did we have a predator (bird) that selectively
> ate the two spotted ones and freaked-out the two white ones, are the
> two spotted ones "hibernating or incubating" in the caves, or did they
> just go in there and die? This is our first season with the pond and
> fish so we're not too sure what to expect. Thoughts or suggestions
> would be appreciated.
>
> --

Watch for babies in coming next weeks. Your fish may also show up. If not,
suspect predators.

[George]

"Otto Pylot" > wrote in message
...
> In article <1_G6e.6679$xL4.2247@attbi_s72>, George
> > wrote:
>
>> "Otto Pylot" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > We installed our pond last July. 1200 gallons, 10x12x2, with a vigouous
>> > 4' waterfall meandering down a 6' stream. Lots of rocks with lots of
>> > places for fish to hide. Decent plant coverage with water poppies and
>> > parrot feathers plus a few odds and ends. Water is clear with a hint of
>> > algae. 4 shubunkins (2 "white" and 2 "spotted") and mosquito fish too
>> > numerous to count. The shubunkins have grown quite a lot since last
>> > July.
>>
>> Hmmm. 10'x12'x2' = 240 ft^3 = 1795.32 gallons. Just so you know
>
> The 1200 gallons was approximate. I know I didn't make that very clear.
> The shape is not rectangular and it is not a uniform 2' deep
> throughout.
>
>>
>> > Here's the oddity. About a month ago we noticed that one of the spotted
>> > shubies was missing. A few days later he(she) re-appeared. The
>> > following day, it was gone again. The next day, we watched the other
>> > spotted one go into one of the rock caves. It never came out as far as
>> > we know and it has been almost 2 weeks now since we've seen either one.
>> > The two white ones seemed to get very agitated and chased each other
>> > around the pond more than normal. Then they went into the rock caves
>> > and were gone for a day or two. The other day we watched them
>> > tentatively poke their noses out of the caves and then dash around the
>> > pond and go into the rock caves on the other side. Whenever they came
>> > out, they would always dash around like they were "afraid". They'd eat
>> > and then hide. Today, they were just cruising around the pond like
>> > nothing had ever happened and all was well. We still haven't seen the
>> > two spotted ones. So, did we have a predator (bird) that selectively
>> > ate the two spotted ones and freaked-out the two white ones, are the
>> > two spotted ones "hibernating or incubating" in the caves, or did they
>> > just go in there and die? This is our first season with the pond and
>> > fish so we're not too sure what to expect. Thoughts or suggestions
>> > would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > --
>>
>> Watch for babies in coming next weeks. Your fish may also show up. If not,
>> suspect predators.
>
> I hope you're right. I know the shubunkins are supposed to lay eggs
> on the plants but I have no idea what's grown, if anything, in the
> caves.
>
> --
> Deja Moo: I've seen this bull**** before.
>
> My address has been anti-spammed.
> Please reply to: replacing invalid with sonic.

Shubukins are a type of goldfish. My two oldest and largest goldfish hid in the
rocks around the waterfall about this time last year. They finally came out
about 1 week later, with the female quite battered. About a week or so later I
noticed dozens of tiny babies hanging around the rocks around the waterfall.
Eight have survived (which is more than enough). One is a quite beautiful white
and orange (the pattern reminds me of a Pinto horse) with black fringes on
grayish-white fins, while one is solid white (blonde?). The adult male was
white and gold (orange) with a long, frilly caudal fin, while the female was
gold (orange) with a little bit of white on the caudal fin. The rest are solid
orange.

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Chasing in agitation sounds like breeding.

Hiding in rock caves sounds like fear of predators.

It is really unlike goldies to stay in caves. Fear is a best bet. Seen
any predators?

Jim

Otto Pylot wrote:
> We installed our pond last July. 1200 gallons, 10x12x2, with a vigouous
> 4' waterfall meandering down a 6' stream. Lots of rocks with lots of
> places for fish to hide. Decent plant coverage with water poppies and
> parrot feathers plus a few odds and ends. Water is clear with a hint of
> algae. 4 shubunkins (2 "white" and 2 "spotted") and mosquito fish too
> numerous to count. The shubunkins have grown quite a lot since last
> July.
>
> Here's the oddity. About a month ago we noticed that one of the spotted
> shubies was missing. A few days later he(she) re-appeared. The
> following day, it was gone again. The next day, we watched the other
> spotted one go into one of the rock caves. It never came out as far as
> we know and it has been almost 2 weeks now since we've seen either one.
> The two white ones seemed to get very agitated and chased each other
> around the pond more than normal. Then they went into the rock caves
> and were gone for a day or two. The other day we watched them
> tentatively poke their noses out of the caves and then dash around the
> pond and go into the rock caves on the other side. Whenever they came
> out, they would always dash around like they were "afraid". They'd eat
> and then hide. Today, they were just cruising around the pond like
> nothing had ever happened and all was well. We still haven't seen the
> two spotted ones. So, did we have a predator (bird) that selectively
> ate the two spotted ones and freaked-out the two white ones, are the
> two spotted ones "hibernating or incubating" in the caves, or did they
> just go in there and die? This is our first season with the pond and
> fish so we're not too sure what to expect. Thoughts or suggestions
> would be appreciated.
>

[George]

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote in message
. ..
> Chasing in agitation sounds like breeding.
>
> Hiding in rock caves sounds like fear of predators.
>
> It is really unlike goldies to stay in caves. Fear is a best bet. Seen any
> predators?
>
> Jim

Last spring, my two adult goldfish (male and female, disappeared. My waterfall
is built into one end of the pond, with lots of rocks, and lots of nooks and
crannies. After a couple of days, I became concerned about them, so I
dismantled the water fall, and found them hiding in the rocks. I suspected they
were mating so I put the waterfall back together. A few days later, they came
out, with the female quite battered. A week later, I noticed that there were
babies wswimming around in those same rocks. The moral of the story is that if
there are rock hollows available but not many plants, goldfish will use the
rocks as a shelter in which to breed.

> Otto Pylot wrote:
>> We installed our pond last July. 1200 gallons, 10x12x2, with a vigouous
>> 4' waterfall meandering down a 6' stream. Lots of rocks with lots of
>> places for fish to hide. Decent plant coverage with water poppies and
>> parrot feathers plus a few odds and ends. Water is clear with a hint of
>> algae. 4 shubunkins (2 "white" and 2 "spotted") and mosquito fish too
>> numerous to count. The shubunkins have grown quite a lot since last
>> July.
>>
>> Here's the oddity. About a month ago we noticed that one of the spotted
>> shubies was missing. A few days later he(she) re-appeared. The
>> following day, it was gone again. The next day, we watched the other spotted
>> one go into one of the rock caves. It never came out as far as
>> we know and it has been almost 2 weeks now since we've seen either one.
>> The two white ones seemed to get very agitated and chased each other
>> around the pond more than normal. Then they went into the rock caves
>> and were gone for a day or two. The other day we watched them
>> tentatively poke their noses out of the caves and then dash around the
>> pond and go into the rock caves on the other side. Whenever they came
>> out, they would always dash around like they were "afraid". They'd eat
>> and then hide. Today, they were just cruising around the pond like
>> nothing had ever happened and all was well. We still haven't seen the
>> two spotted ones. So, did we have a predator (bird) that selectively
>> ate the two spotted ones and freaked-out the two white ones, are the
>> two spotted ones "hibernating or incubating" in the caves, or did they
>> just go in there and die? This is our first season with the pond and
>> fish so we're not too sure what to expect. Thoughts or suggestions
>> would be appreciated.
>>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

I was of the impression that they chase and spread eggs (ours appear
to). That would be hard to do in a confined space. Is there any lit
that would describe hidden spawning? It would be interesting to read.

Jim

George wrote:
> "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Chasing in agitation sounds like breeding.
>>
>>Hiding in rock caves sounds like fear of predators.
>>
>>It is really unlike goldies to stay in caves. Fear is a best bet. Seen any
>>predators?
>>
>>Jim
>
>
> Last spring, my two adult goldfish (male and female, disappeared. My waterfall
> is built into one end of the pond, with lots of rocks, and lots of nooks and
> crannies. After a couple of days, I became concerned about them, so I
> dismantled the water fall, and found them hiding in the rocks. I suspected they
> were mating so I put the waterfall back together. A few days later, they came
> out, with the female quite battered. A week later, I noticed that there were
> babies wswimming around in those same rocks. The moral of the story is that if
> there are rock hollows available but not many plants, goldfish will use the
> rocks as a shelter in which to breed.
>
>
>>Otto Pylot wrote:
>>
>>>We installed our pond last July. 1200 gallons, 10x12x2, with a vigouous
>>>4' waterfall meandering down a 6' stream. Lots of rocks with lots of
>>>places for fish to hide. Decent plant coverage with water poppies and
>>>parrot feathers plus a few odds and ends. Water is clear with a hint of
>>>algae. 4 shubunkins (2 "white" and 2 "spotted") and mosquito fish too
>>>numerous to count. The shubunkins have grown quite a lot since last
>>>July.
>>>
>>>Here's the oddity. About a month ago we noticed that one of the spotted
>>>shubies was missing. A few days later he(she) re-appeared. The
>>>following day, it was gone again. The next day, we watched the other spotted
>>>one go into one of the rock caves. It never came out as far as
>>>we know and it has been almost 2 weeks now since we've seen either one.
>>>The two white ones seemed to get very agitated and chased each other
>>>around the pond more than normal. Then they went into the rock caves
>>>and were gone for a day or two. The other day we watched them
>>>tentatively poke their noses out of the caves and then dash around the
>>>pond and go into the rock caves on the other side. Whenever they came
>>>out, they would always dash around like they were "afraid". They'd eat
>>>and then hide. Today, they were just cruising around the pond like
>>>nothing had ever happened and all was well. We still haven't seen the
>>>two spotted ones. So, did we have a predator (bird) that selectively
>>>ate the two spotted ones and freaked-out the two white ones, are the
>>>two spotted ones "hibernating or incubating" in the caves, or did they
>>>just go in there and die? This is our first season with the pond and
>>>fish so we're not too sure what to expect. Thoughts or suggestions
>>>would be appreciated.
>>>
>
>
>

[George]

"Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote in message
. ..
>I was of the impression that they chase and spread eggs (ours appear to). That
>would be hard to do in a confined space. Is there any lit that would describe
>hidden spawning? It would be interesting to read.
>
> Jim

I have no idea. All I know is that my male (and several others) chased the
female around for a couple of days. Then the male and female disappeared into
the rocks. When they finally came out, I had baby goldfish swimming around in
the rocks.

> George wrote:
>> "Phyllis and Jim Hurley" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>Chasing in agitation sounds like breeding.
>>>
>>>Hiding in rock caves sounds like fear of predators.
>>>
>>>It is really unlike goldies to stay in caves. Fear is a best bet. Seen any
>>>predators?
>>>
>>>Jim
>>
>>
>> Last spring, my two adult goldfish (male and female, disappeared. My
>> waterfall is built into one end of the pond, with lots of rocks, and lots of
>> nooks and crannies. After a couple of days, I became concerned about them,
>> so I dismantled the water fall, and found them hiding in the rocks. I
>> suspected they were mating so I put the waterfall back together. A few days
>> later, they came out, with the female quite battered. A week later, I noticed
>> that there were babies wswimming around in those same rocks. The moral of
>> the story is that if there are rock hollows available but not many plants,
>> goldfish will use the rocks as a shelter in which to breed.
>>
>>
>>>Otto Pylot wrote:
>>>
>>>>We installed our pond last July. 1200 gallons, 10x12x2, with a vigouous
>>>>4' waterfall meandering down a 6' stream. Lots of rocks with lots of
>>>>places for fish to hide. Decent plant coverage with water poppies and
>>>>parrot feathers plus a few odds and ends. Water is clear with a hint of
>>>>algae. 4 shubunkins (2 "white" and 2 "spotted") and mosquito fish too
>>>>numerous to count. The shubunkins have grown quite a lot since last
>>>>July.
>>>>
>>>>Here's the oddity. About a month ago we noticed that one of the spotted
>>>>shubies was missing. A few days later he(she) re-appeared. The
>>>>following day, it was gone again. The next day, we watched the other spotted
>>>>one go into one of the rock caves. It never came out as far as
>>>>we know and it has been almost 2 weeks now since we've seen either one.
>>>>The two white ones seemed to get very agitated and chased each other
>>>>around the pond more than normal. Then they went into the rock caves
>>>>and were gone for a day or two. The other day we watched them
>>>>tentatively poke their noses out of the caves and then dash around the
>>>>pond and go into the rock caves on the other side. Whenever they came
>>>>out, they would always dash around like they were "afraid". They'd eat
>>>>and then hide. Today, they were just cruising around the pond like
>>>>nothing had ever happened and all was well. We still haven't seen the
>>>>two spotted ones. So, did we have a predator (bird) that selectively
>>>>ate the two spotted ones and freaked-out the two white ones, are the
>>>>two spotted ones "hibernating or incubating" in the caves, or did they
>>>>just go in there and die? This is our first season with the pond and
>>>>fish so we're not too sure what to expect. Thoughts or suggestions
>>>>would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>
>>