Dwarf Gouramis and Dropsy

[Lisa]

Dang - I am losing my last Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia) to dropsy. (I
got him and another male Flame in mid-January, or about 3 months ago.)
About 2 months ago, I also bought 3 females, thinking this would make
the males happier. It did, actually - there was so much spawning
action that I almost put a black cloth over the tank! And, I had to
explain mating activities to my kids a lot earlier than I had
anticipated, LOL.

The females started dying first (the smallest one lasted the longest -
died just 2 weeks ago), and now both males. ALL from dropsy. They
were all spawning in Feb., though. Is it possible that the females
(all from one LFS - new purchases that I didn't quarantine) gave the
males some kind of fishy V.D.???

Or, I am wondering - maybe am I doing something wrong with diet? All
of them died of dropsy - swelling abdomen and then pine-cone scales,
etc. I've been feeding a rotation of flake, frozen bloodworms, and
frozen Brine shrimp. (The corys get sinking algae wafers and sinking
carnivore tablets, too.)

Tank parameters: 50-G bowfront, with one quarter-sized angelfish, 7
Cardinal tetras, 6 Cory cats, one Gold Gourami, one Pearl Gourami. All
of these are doing well. My only losses (aside from 3 cardinals in the
first week that I had them) are the dwarf gouramis. All water
parameters test normal - no ammonia, no nitrites are detectable. The
nitrates are less than 25. pH is 7.2, water is quite soft, and temps
stable at 78F.

Since the male and female dwarf gouramis came from different LFSs, and
it's been 3 months since I got the last male who is now dying, I gotta
think I am doing something wrong with them. But, what? A fish STD?
Diet? Bloodworms too often? Why are the other fish seemingly fine
while I've lost all my dwarf gouramis? Since this male was my "first
fish" back in Jan., it's hard to lose him now. I wish I knew what he
is dying from!

Sadly,

Lisa in Central Coast, CA

[[email protected]]

Why don't you try medicine for dropsy? That's what I would try. Later!

[IDzine01]

Hey Lisa,
Your tank set up sounds very much like my own. I have 3 female colisa
lalia and 1 males, oh, and 5 cories.

I have had mine for about two months now and like yours, they spawn
regularly. (I laughed at what you said about covering the tank for
kids. Every time I walk in my fish room I roll my eyes and say, "wow,
they're at it again".)

Anyway, your feeding routine seems pretty good but I think you might be
missing some algae in their diet. My LFS guy (who's opinion I greatly
respect) specifically warned me not to go overboard on worms and to
make sure they get plenty of algae in their diet to avoid dropsy. Now,
the difference is I have live black-worms and you have frozen larvae
and shrimp. Your are likely safe from parasites and bacteria. What I'm
thinking, however, is maybe they need that algae to keep their immune
systems in top shape. Perhaps because they are missing an important
nutrient from their diets, your DGs are experiencing a compromised
immune system and are contracting an infection that is leading to
dropsy. It's possible that with a more well balanced diet, they would
be able to easily fight off whatever bug is in the tank.

You did say you're feeding your cories algae wafers. Are your DGs
eating them too? If they are, then my whole theory goes right out the
window, but what the heck, I took a stab at it. ;-)

[sophiefishstuff]

In message . com>,
IDzine01 > writes
>Hey Lisa,
>Your tank set up sounds very much like my own. I have 3 female colisa
>lalia and 1 males, oh, and 5 cories.
>
>I have had mine for about two months now and like yours, they spawn
>regularly. (I laughed at what you said about covering the tank for
>kids. Every time I walk in my fish room I roll my eyes and say, "wow,
>they're at it again".)
>
>Anyway, your feeding routine seems pretty good but I think you might be
>missing some algae in their diet. My LFS guy (who's opinion I greatly
>respect) specifically warned me not to go overboard on worms and to
>make sure they get plenty of algae in their diet to avoid dropsy. Now,
>the difference is I have live black-worms and you have frozen larvae
>and shrimp. Your are likely safe from parasites and bacteria. What I'm
>thinking, however, is maybe they need that algae to keep their immune
>systems in top shape. Perhaps because they are missing an important
>nutrient from their diets, your DGs are experiencing a compromised
>immune system and are contracting an infection that is leading to
>dropsy. It's possible that with a more well balanced diet, they would
>be able to easily fight off whatever bug is in the tank.
>
>You did say you're feeding your cories algae wafers. Are your DGs
>eating them too? If they are, then my whole theory goes right out the
>window, but what the heck, I took a stab at it. ;-)

I agree about the balanced diet; the tank my dwarf is in gets fed
(frozen) bloodworm, daphnia & brine shrimp, sinking pellets (tetramin) &
goldfish flake (I don't feed it to the goldfish any more because it
makes one of them float so I'm using it up here.) They also get green
veggies, tangerine (the gourami is weirdly keen on this) & oats. The
gourami is as much of a bottomless pit as the goldfish and I'd read that
they were prone to (constipation?) & dropsy, hence the "high fibre"
stuff. He doesn't like algae wafers.
>

--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

[Lisa]

Thanks, IDzine. I do feed the corys algae wafers, but the Dwarf
gourmais just ignored them. The sinking "carnivore" pellets, however,
they would all eat like crazy (all the gouramis and the angelfish),
even crowding out the corys to eat those pellets.

I've tried feeding shelled, smashed peas, and a zucchini slice, but
these were both ignored by the dwarfs, too. So was a spinach leaf. I
just don't know. I hate that I failed these fish (the last male - the
oldest one - died last night). The deaths may be diet-related, because
I *was* doing the bloodworm-"gumdrops" every other day. I am cutting
THAT back, right now. Maybe once a week instead, with pellets and
flake and frozen brine shrimp and daphnia taking their place. ?? (I
still offer the algae wafers and carnivore pellets for the corys,
though.)

I am getting out of the dwarf gourami care for awhile. I feel too
badly that I lost all 5. Yet my angelfish, cory cats, cardinal tetras,
and gold and pearl gouramis all seem to be hale and hearty.

Sigh. Here is my thinking: (1) it may well have been all those
bloodworms. (2) If it wasn't the bloodworms, then the females were
infected (they did die first, and all came in one batch from the same
tank at one LFS), and perhaps they "gave" the males something along
with all that spawning action, like a fish-based STD.

I am still head-scratching about the "oats and tangerine" diet
suggestion that Sophie posted. I had never heard of foods like that in
aquaria! Hey, Sophie - quick oats, or old fashioned? Raw oats, I
assume - just sprinkle in the water? Today I tried one flake of raw,
"old-fashioned" Quaker oat, but everyone just ignored it. So I took it
out after an hour. And, how on earth do you offer the tangerine - just
float a slice and see what happens?

- Lisa

IDzine01 wrote:
> Hey Lisa,
> Your tank set up sounds very much like my own. I have 3 female colisa
> lalia and 1 males, oh, and 5 cories.
>
> I have had mine for about two months now and like yours, they spawn
> regularly. (I laughed at what you said about covering the tank for
> kids. Every time I walk in my fish room I roll my eyes and say, "wow,
> they're at it again".)
>
> Anyway, your feeding routine seems pretty good but I think you might
be
> missing some algae in their diet. My LFS guy (who's opinion I greatly
> respect) specifically warned me not to go overboard on worms and to
> make sure they get plenty of algae in their diet to avoid dropsy.
Now,
> the difference is I have live black-worms and you have frozen larvae
> and shrimp. Your are likely safe from parasites and bacteria. What
I'm
> thinking, however, is maybe they need that algae to keep their immune
> systems in top shape. Perhaps because they are missing an important
> nutrient from their diets, your DGs are experiencing a compromised
> immune system and are contracting an infection that is leading to
> dropsy. It's possible that with a more well balanced diet, they would
> be able to easily fight off whatever bug is in the tank.
>
> You did say you're feeding your cories algae wafers. Are your DGs
> eating them too? If they are, then my whole theory goes right out the
> window, but what the heck, I took a stab at it. ;-)

[Lisa]

Well, I did try medicating a couple of them. I even kept the two
females in the QT tank and treated for 2 weeks. I almost moved the
tiny one back to the main tank, because she showed no symptoms for 2
weeks in QT (the bigger one died after about one week). But then,
after 2 weeks (and on flake/pellet food - no bloodworms!), the smallest
one started with the swelling - and she had been on Kanacyn (the
antibiotic medication my LFS recommended for dropsy) for 2 solid weeks!
I've read that once "dropsy" is evident, medication doesn't usually
work. In this experience, the meds and Epsom salt treatment just
seemed to slow the inevitable process. The treatment DID slow it down,
compared to the untreated fish, but there was no cure. I did try, but
they all died regardless. :-(

- Lisa

[sophiefishstuff]

In message . com>, Lisa
> writes

<snick>
>
>I am still head-scratching about the "oats and tangerine" diet
>suggestion that Sophie posted. I had never heard of foods like that in
>aquaria! Hey, Sophie - quick oats, or old fashioned? Raw oats, I
>assume - just sprinkle in the water? Today I tried one flake of raw,
>"old-fashioned" Quaker oat, but everyone just ignored it. So I took it
>out after an hour. And, how on earth do you offer the tangerine - just
>float a slice and see what happens?

I do realise it sounds absolutely cuckoo!

oats - just plain uncooked porridge oats, crumbled a little (but not a
lot, otherwise the water goes all dusty.) And the tangerine/satsuma - I
take the outer skin off a section/segment and pull the inside bit apart
and squash it up as small as possible. My dwarf g. loves this, as do teh
rasboras -and the goldfish & minnows in the other tank; but the kuhlis
and weather loach are almost completely uninterested. Mostly I feed this
in an attempt to clean out the gourami and the fancy goldfish as both of
these fish are prone to constipation.

I have no idea if this would work for anyone else, but it seems to do so
for me. I also have a tendency to slightly underfeed and not to feed
absolutely regularly.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)