Cleaners bulging eyes, why ?

[Lior T]

Hi,

I've got two questions, first off - I've went to buy a razor blade to
finally clean the aquarium's glass since its disgusting how I neglected
it.

When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the algea
with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7 years i
think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
Here's a link to its photo -
http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg

is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?

ok, second - any tips on cleaning with the metal blade ? Im afraid to
scratch the glass ... (do i swip upwards ? downwards ? ...)

thanks
LT

[Lior T]

Hi,

I've also noticed its belly is inflated and he keeps bumping into stuff.
the smaller cleaner also seems to push him away occasionally (seems its
trying to be the new master or something)

Help please ! I really love this fish !

LT

Lior T wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've got two questions, first off - I've went to buy a razor blade to
> finally clean the aquarium's glass since its disgusting how I
> neglected it.
>
> When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the
> algea with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7
> years i think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
> Here's a link to its photo -
> http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg
>
> is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?
>
> ok, second - any tips on cleaning with the metal blade ? Im afraid to
> scratch the glass ... (do i swip upwards ? downwards ? ...)
>
> thanks
> LT

[Nikki Casali]

It sounds like your fish has an internal bacteria infection or dropsy.
There are a few treatments that can help. Epsom salts can alleviate the
the swelling. I'd use both Epsom salts and an anti-internal bacteria
treatment.

Please check out:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html

Can anyone else add to this advice for this poor beloved fish?

Nikki

Lior T wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've also noticed its belly is inflated and he keeps bumping into stuff.
> the smaller cleaner also seems to push him away occasionally (seems its
> trying to be the new master or something)
>
> Help please ! I really love this fish !
>
> LT
>
> Lior T wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've got two questions, first off - I've went to buy a razor blade to
>>finally clean the aquarium's glass since its disgusting how I
>>neglected it.
>>
>>When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the
>>algea with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7
>>years i think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
>>Here's a link to its photo -
>>http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg
>>
>>is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?
>>
>>ok, second - any tips on cleaning with the metal blade ? Im afraid to
>>scratch the glass ... (do i swip upwards ? downwards ? ...)
>>
>>thanks
>>LT
>
>

[Elaine T]

Lior T wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've also noticed its belly is inflated and he keeps bumping into stuff.
> the smaller cleaner also seems to push him away occasionally (seems its
> trying to be the new master or something)
>
> Help please ! I really love this fish !
>
> LT
>
> Lior T wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've got two questions, first off - I've went to buy a razor blade to
>>finally clean the aquarium's glass since its disgusting how I
>>neglected it.
>>
>>When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the
>>algea with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7
>>years i think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
>>Here's a link to its photo -
>>http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg
>>
>>is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?
>>
>>ok, second - any tips on cleaning with the metal blade ? Im afraid to
>>scratch the glass ... (do i swip upwards ? downwards ? ...)
>>
>>thanks
>>LT
>
>
Your pleco has dropsy and is quite sick. He may not recover at all -
dropsy is acute kidney failure caused by an internal infection. You
need to get him into a hospital tank and treat with antibiotics. Try a
mix of Maracyn one and Maracyn two on his algae wafers, or in the water
if he's not eating. Antibiotic in the water will kill your filter
bacteria so you'll have to manage ammonia with zeolites or AmQuel.

As for the razor blade, keep it at a sharp angle to the glass. It's
much like shaving - perpendicular and it will scratch, but at a sharp
angle, and you'll remove the gunk and the glass will be fine.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Lior T]

Thanks guys,

I've isolated the pleco, I had to move it to a bucket since I have no
secondary tank. I've put in metilen-blue since thats all I have at home,
The swelling came in about 2 days so I guess this is dropseys, bummer.

also - the metal blade cleaning went great ! thanks for the help about
the angles, the blade didnt come with instructions so this was
helpful...
btw - should I replace the blades if the lay around for a while ? (do
they develop minor rust area's that could scratch the glass after a
while ?

thanks
LT

Lior T wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've also noticed its belly is inflated and he keeps bumping into
> stuff. the smaller cleaner also seems to push him away occasionally
> (seems its trying to be the new master or something)
>
> Help please ! I really love this fish !
>
> LT
>
> Lior T wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've got two questions, first off - I've went to buy a razor blade
> > to finally clean the aquarium's glass since its disgusting how I
> > neglected it.
> >
> > When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the
> > algea with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7
> > years i think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
> > Here's a link to its photo -
> > http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg
> >
> > is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?
> >
> > ok, second - any tips on cleaning with the metal blade ? Im afraid
> > to scratch the glass ... (do i swip upwards ? downwards ? ...)
> >
> > thanks
> > LT

[Derek Benson]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:46:17 GMT, "Lior T" > wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I've also noticed its belly is inflated and he keeps bumping into stuff.
>the smaller cleaner also seems to push him away occasionally (seems its
>trying to be the new master or something)
>
>Help please ! I really love this fish !
>LT
>
>Lior T wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the
>> algea with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7
>> years i think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
>> Here's a link to its photo -
>> http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg
>>
>> is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?
>> thanks
>> LT

From your photo my best guess is that the fish has PopEye, not Dropsy
as others are suggesting. With Dropsy the body of the fish should be
extremely bloated and the scales in the bloated region sticking out
from the sides of the fish; I don't see these in your photo. Some of
the Dropsy medications will also treat PopEye, so if you've already
purchased something it may be a useful medication.

-Derek

[Elaine T]

Derek Benson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:46:17 GMT, "Lior T" > wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've also noticed its belly is inflated and he keeps bumping into stuff.
>>the smaller cleaner also seems to push him away occasionally (seems its
>>trying to be the new master or something)
>>
>>Help please ! I really love this fish !
>>LT
>>
>>Lior T wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>When I started to clean with the plastic blade (no effects on the
>>>algea with the plastic) I've noticed that my good OLD cleaner (7
>>>years i think) eyes are bulging (extreamly I would say).
>>>Here's a link to its photo -
>>>http://t2.technion.ac.il/~sliort/cleaners_bulging_eyes.jpg
>>>
>>>is this normal ? any treatment recommended ?
>>>thanks
>>>LT
>
>
> From your photo my best guess is that the fish has PopEye, not Dropsy
> as others are suggesting. With Dropsy the body of the fish should be
> extremely bloated and the scales in the bloated region sticking out
> from the sides of the fish; I don't see these in your photo. Some of
> the Dropsy medications will also treat PopEye, so if you've already
> purchased something it may be a useful medication.
>
> -Derek

Popeye is simply another sign of acute kidney failure caused by
bacterial septicemia and often precedes "dropsy" - abdominal swelling
caused by kidney failure. If you read above, LT says the fish's belly
is inflated along with the popeyes.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Derek Benson]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:51:36 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>Derek Benson wrote:

>> From your photo my best guess is that the fish has PopEye, not Dropsy
>> as others are suggesting. With Dropsy the body of the fish should be
>> extremely bloated and the scales in the bloated region sticking out
>> from the sides of the fish; I don't see these in your photo. Some of
>> the Dropsy medications will also treat PopEye, so if you've already
>> purchased something it may be a useful medication.
>>
>> -Derek
>
>Popeye is simply another sign of acute kidney failure caused by
>bacterial septicemia and often precedes "dropsy" - abdominal swelling
>caused by kidney failure. If you read above, LT says the fish's belly
>is inflated along with the popeyes.

The article on bacterial infections at skepticalaquarist.com says:

"Æromonas-type bacteria can cause "blood pimples" and bloody streaks
in fins and skin, and they are among the agents that cause hemorrhagic
septicemia, the abdominal swelling we still call "bloat" or "dropsy,"
by inflaming and swelling the liver or spleen so that the abdomen
fills with fluid, sometimes with standing "pine-cone" scales, or by
creating intestinal blockage. Aeromonads can be responsible for skin
ulcers and lesions, red patches, fin and tail rot, or pop-eye."

"Mycobacteria are also among the common, generally non-pathogenic
bacteria found everywhere in the aquarium. They arrive by every route,
even in house dust that settles on the water's surface. Among aerobic
environmental bacteria, mycobacterial strains are commonly considered
the likeliest to become pathogenic."

"Some symptoms of mycobacteriosis: fish refuse feed, they waste away,
develop pale "bleached" patches; their translucent musculature can
turn milky; their scales may be raised; they can develop skin lesions,
sunken patches, ulcers that may bleed, bloody streaks on the body or
fins similar to Aeromonad infections, pop-eye, or fin rot; in later
stages the liver, kidneys, or spleen may stop functioning, resulting
in "dropsy" or "bloat." I'm getting these descriptions from
biologists' reports, not my own observations. But you see that these
dire symptoms aren't specific to mycobacteriosis, or even to bacterial
infections. Personally, I couldn't even distinguish a bacterial
infection from an infestation of sporideans, such as Pleistophora,
without lab support, the range of shared symptoms are so easily
confused."

There are a couple different families of bacteria discussed here which
can cause pop-eye, or fin and tail rot, or ulcers, or dropsy, etc. My
reading of your statement is that pop-eye and dropsy are the exact
same illness. I don't think it's that simple.

-Derek

[Elaine T]

Derek Benson wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:51:36 GMT, Elaine T >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Derek Benson wrote:
>
>
>>>From your photo my best guess is that the fish has PopEye, not Dropsy
>>>as others are suggesting. With Dropsy the body of the fish should be
>>>extremely bloated and the scales in the bloated region sticking out
>>>from the sides of the fish; I don't see these in your photo. Some of
>>>the Dropsy medications will also treat PopEye, so if you've already
>>>purchased something it may be a useful medication.
>>>
>>>-Derek
>>
>>Popeye is simply another sign of acute kidney failure caused by
>>bacterial septicemia and often precedes "dropsy" - abdominal swelling
>>caused by kidney failure. If you read above, LT says the fish's belly
>>is inflated along with the popeyes.
>
>
> The article on bacterial infections at skepticalaquarist.com says:
>
> "Æromonas-type bacteria can cause "blood pimples" and bloody streaks
> in fins and skin, and they are among the agents that cause hemorrhagic
> septicemia, the abdominal swelling we still call "bloat" or "dropsy,"
> by inflaming and swelling the liver or spleen so that the abdomen
> fills with fluid, sometimes with standing "pine-cone" scales, or by
> creating intestinal blockage. Aeromonads can be responsible for skin
> ulcers and lesions, red patches, fin and tail rot, or pop-eye."
>
> "Mycobacteria are also among the common, generally non-pathogenic
> bacteria found everywhere in the aquarium. They arrive by every route,
> even in house dust that settles on the water's surface. Among aerobic
> environmental bacteria, mycobacterial strains are commonly considered
> the likeliest to become pathogenic."
>
> "Some symptoms of mycobacteriosis: fish refuse feed, they waste away,
> develop pale "bleached" patches; their translucent musculature can
> turn milky; their scales may be raised; they can develop skin lesions,
> sunken patches, ulcers that may bleed, bloody streaks on the body or
> fins similar to Aeromonad infections, pop-eye, or fin rot; in later
> stages the liver, kidneys, or spleen may stop functioning, resulting
> in "dropsy" or "bloat." I'm getting these descriptions from
> biologists' reports, not my own observations. But you see that these
> dire symptoms aren't specific to mycobacteriosis, or even to bacterial
> infections. Personally, I couldn't even distinguish a bacterial
> infection from an infestation of sporideans, such as Pleistophora,
> without lab support, the range of shared symptoms are so easily
> confused."
>
> There are a couple different families of bacteria discussed here which
> can cause pop-eye, or fin and tail rot, or ulcers, or dropsy, etc. My
> reading of your statement is that pop-eye and dropsy are the exact
> same illness. I don't think it's that simple.
>
> -Derek

So you're saying that dropsy and popeye are different phenomena, but
caused by the same disease agents? I thought they were part of the same
process because every pop-eyed fish I've ever seen live has developed
dropsy.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com