Still fighting high nitrites in 25 gal tank

[Ionizer]

This 25-gallon tank of ours, with almost forty fish added to it on April 5
(a week after setting it up and filling it,) still has high nitrite levels
between 0.3 and 0.8 despite daily water changes. I've done DAILY water
changes- a few 20% changes and a number of 40% changes, which has resulted
in 80 gallons worth of water changes in about nine days. I've been adding
the recommended double-dose of Nutrafin "Cycle" to each of these changes
and, following a post by Elaine T, I have been also adding conservative
amounts of aquarium salt with these changes in the hopes of reducing the
effects of nitrite toxicity on the fish.

So- a couple of questions:

Are the amounts of salt I am adding adequate? I'm trying to maintain a
level of approximately one teaspoon of salt in the tank, according to the
levels recommended for fighting nitrite toxicity here:
http://www.algone.com/salt_in_fresh.htm and here:
http://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1998/spring/nitrate.shtml

Is the small piece of supposedly aquarium-safe drifwood my wife insisted
on adding to the tank contributing to the distress of the fish? Ever
since she added it, there is a very slight brownish tinge to the water I
remove from the tank.

I've been unable to locate "Fritzyme," which Elaine also recommended, but
it sounds as if it is essentially the same idea as the "Cycle" I have been
adding to the water.

And one last question, this regarding the euthanizing of tropical fish. I
determined that it was necessary to put down one of our mollies last week.
She was listless, disoriented and had spots on her tail fins. After a
couple of days of distress she would be easily flipped upside-down as she
passed under the filter output water, and she spent a lot of time drifting
around the heater. She seemed stunned and near death, so after some
online research I did this: I poured a 4-ounce glass of Alberta Premium
rye whisky (40% alcohol,) warmed it to aquarium temerature and dropped her
into it. The promised "immediate" paralysis was not nearly as immediate
as I had hoped. Did I do that the right way?

Regards,
Ian.

[Lisa]

Ian - If available near you, I would acquire some Bio-Spira ASAP to
cycle your tank. With that large of a load of fish in a new tank, I
can't think of a better thing. (Bio-spira is live-cultured bacteria,
and is sold in refrigerated packs. It's pricey.) Everything I have
read about "Cycle" indicates that it doesn't help in cycling the tank
at all. BioSpira does, though - it's about the only thing that works
quickly, as far as I know.

I have driftwood (bog-wood) in my tank, and what I have read is that
the slight brown tinge is harmless to fish. My LFS, where I bought the
driftwood, had it soaking for 2 months in a tank, so the color was
greeatly reduced when I bought it.

Good luck!

- Lisa

[Elaine T]

Ionizer wrote:
> This 25-gallon tank of ours, with almost forty fish added to it on April 5
> (a week after setting it up and filling it,) still has high nitrite levels
> between 0.3 and 0.8 despite daily water changes. I've done DAILY water
> changes- a few 20% changes and a number of 40% changes, which has resulted
> in 80 gallons worth of water changes in about nine days. I've been adding
> the recommended double-dose of Nutrafin "Cycle" to each of these changes
> and, following a post by Elaine T, I have been also adding conservative
> amounts of aquarium salt with these changes in the hopes of reducing the
> effects of nitrite toxicity on the fish.
>
> So- a couple of questions:
>
> Are the amounts of salt I am adding adequate? I'm trying to maintain a
> level of approximately one teaspoon of salt in the tank, according to the
> levels recommended for fighting nitrite toxicity here:
> http://www.algone.com/salt_in_fresh.htm and here:
> http://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1998/spring/nitrate.shtml
>
> Is the small piece of supposedly aquarium-safe drifwood my wife insisted
> on adding to the tank contributing to the distress of the fish? Ever
> since she added it, there is a very slight brownish tinge to the water I
> remove from the tank.
>
> I've been unable to locate "Fritzyme," which Elaine also recommended, but
> it sounds as if it is essentially the same idea as the "Cycle" I have been
> adding to the water.
>
> And one last question, this regarding the euthanizing of tropical fish. I
> determined that it was necessary to put down one of our mollies last week.
> She was listless, disoriented and had spots on her tail fins. After a
> couple of days of distress she would be easily flipped upside-down as she
> passed under the filter output water, and she spent a lot of time drifting
> around the heater. She seemed stunned and near death, so after some
> online research I did this: I poured a 4-ounce glass of Alberta Premium
> rye whisky (40% alcohol,) warmed it to aquarium temerature and dropped her
> into it. The promised "immediate" paralysis was not nearly as immediate
> as I had hoped. Did I do that the right way?
>
> Regards,
> Ian.
>
>
Interesting. My fish disease books (one also written by a DVM) say to
use at least 0.1% or 1 tsp/gallon. Both of these articles sound
well-reasoned, though so I don't know. If your fish seem to be able to
breathe and are not too lethargic you're probably adding enough.

Cycle is not useful - the reason I didn't mention it. In fact, when I
last checked Cycle was a bottle of mostly dead bacteria and nutrients
they're not using so you're really adding to the nutrient load in your
tank rather than doing anything beneficial. Lisa mentions BioSpira, and
a lot of folks around here have had good luck with it. I've never tried
the stuff myself. I cycle by packing the tank with plants and only
adding a few fish. Pity you can't find Fritzyme.

As for euthanasia, many folks here use clove oil now. It's anesthetic
and puts the fish to sleep permanently. Freezing fish is another common
method but is under debate since most of us would not like to be frozen
to death. Some of us also quickly decapitate with a knife. As you
noticed, alcohol is a bit slow acting but I'm sure your fish suffered
far less than she would have had you not done anything.

Sounds like you're doing as well as can be expected. Hang in there and
keep changing water!
--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[[email protected]]

You did it all wrong. You shallow the fish then you pour the rye
whiskey down your throat. The Molly will make your stomach its
permanent home.

[Mr. Zee]

What about dropping the fish in boiling water? I read about this in TFH
magazine many years ago. Any opinions? Also, could you repeat the
procedure for clove oil? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks!


"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ionizer wrote:
>> This 25-gallon tank of ours, with almost forty fish added to it on April
>> 5 (a week after setting it up and filling it,) still has high nitrite
>> levels between 0.3 and 0.8 despite daily water changes. I've done DAILY
>> water changes- a few 20% changes and a number of 40% changes, which has
>> resulted in 80 gallons worth of water changes in about nine days. I've
>> been adding the recommended double-dose of Nutrafin "Cycle" to each of
>> these changes and, following a post by Elaine T, I have been also adding
>> conservative amounts of aquarium salt with these changes in the hopes of
>> reducing the effects of nitrite toxicity on the fish.
>>
>> So- a couple of questions:
>>
>> Are the amounts of salt I am adding adequate? I'm trying to maintain a
>> level of approximately one teaspoon of salt in the tank, according to the
>> levels recommended for fighting nitrite toxicity here:
>> http://www.algone.com/salt_in_fresh.htm and here:
>> http://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/1998/spring/nitrate.shtml
>>
>> Is the small piece of supposedly aquarium-safe drifwood my wife insisted
>> on adding to the tank contributing to the distress of the fish? Ever
>> since she added it, there is a very slight brownish tinge to the water I
>> remove from the tank.
>>
>> I've been unable to locate "Fritzyme," which Elaine also recommended, but
>> it sounds as if it is essentially the same idea as the "Cycle" I have
>> been adding to the water.
>>
>> And one last question, this regarding the euthanizing of tropical fish.
>> I determined that it was necessary to put down one of our mollies last
>> week. She was listless, disoriented and had spots on her tail fins.
>> After a couple of days of distress she would be easily flipped
>> upside-down as she passed under the filter output water, and she spent a
>> lot of time drifting around the heater. She seemed stunned and near
>> death, so after some online research I did this: I poured a 4-ounce
>> glass of Alberta Premium rye whisky (40% alcohol,) warmed it to aquarium
>> temerature and dropped her into it. The promised "immediate" paralysis
>> was not nearly as immediate as I had hoped. Did I do that the right way?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ian.
> Interesting. My fish disease books (one also written by a DVM) say to use
> at least 0.1% or 1 tsp/gallon. Both of these articles sound
> well-reasoned, though so I don't know. If your fish seem to be able to
> breathe and are not too lethargic you're probably adding enough.
>
> Cycle is not useful - the reason I didn't mention it. In fact, when I
> last checked Cycle was a bottle of mostly dead bacteria and nutrients
> they're not using so you're really adding to the nutrient load in your
> tank rather than doing anything beneficial. Lisa mentions BioSpira, and a
> lot of folks around here have had good luck with it. I've never tried the
> stuff myself. I cycle by packing the tank with plants and only adding a
> few fish. Pity you can't find Fritzyme.
>
> As for euthanasia, many folks here use clove oil now. It's anesthetic and
> puts the fish to sleep permanently. Freezing fish is another common
> method but is under debate since most of us would not like to be frozen to
> death. Some of us also quickly decapitate with a knife. As you noticed,
> alcohol is a bit slow acting but I'm sure your fish suffered far less than
> she would have had you not done anything.
>
> Sounds like you're doing as well as can be expected. Hang in there and
> keep changing water!
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Geezer From The Freezer]

"Mr. Zee" wrote:
>
> What about dropping the fish in boiling water? I read about this in TFH
> magazine many years ago. Any opinions? Also, could you repeat the
> procedure for clove oil? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks!

Would you like to be boiled to death? Didn't think so.

Use clove oil or freeze. Clove is best though. Just put the fish in a tub of
tank water
add a few drops of clove oil, repeat after 10 minutes if the fish is still alive
when he has passed on, put him in the freezer just to make sure.
Some people will also use vodka with clove oil so that it mixes into the water
better.

[sophiefishstuff]

In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
> writes
>
>
>"Mr. Zee" wrote:
>>
>> What about dropping the fish in boiling water? I read about this in TFH
>> magazine many years ago. Any opinions? Also, could you repeat the
>> procedure for clove oil? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks!
>
>Would you like to be boiled to death? Didn't think so.
>
>Use clove oil or freeze. Clove is best though. Just put the fish in a tub of
>tank water
>add a few drops of clove oil, repeat after 10 minutes if the fish is
>still alive
>when he has passed on, put him in the freezer just to make sure.
>Some people will also use vodka with clove oil so that it mixes into the water
>better.

there is also, if it's a small fish, the "hit it with something heavy"
option. I've never had to euthanase a fish, but with
things-the-cat-brought in this is very quick and, I think, humane. Some
people can't do it though.

--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

[Ionizer]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. ..
> Interesting. My fish disease books (one also written by a DVM) say to
> use at least 0.1% or 1 tsp/gallon. Both of these articles sound
> well-reasoned, though so I don't know. If your fish seem to be able to
> breathe and are not too lethargic you're probably adding enough.
>
> Cycle is not useful - the reason I didn't mention it. In fact, when I
> last checked Cycle was a bottle of mostly dead bacteria and nutrients
> they're not using so you're really adding to the nutrient load in your
> tank rather than doing anything beneficial. Lisa mentions BioSpira, and
> a lot of folks around here have had good luck with it. I've never tried
> the stuff myself. I cycle by packing the tank with plants and only
> adding a few fish. Pity you can't find Fritzyme.
>
> As for euthanasia, many folks here use clove oil now. It's anesthetic
> and puts the fish to sleep permanently. Freezing fish is another common
> method but is under debate since most of us would not like to be frozen
> to death. Some of us also quickly decapitate with a knife. As you
> noticed, alcohol is a bit slow acting but I'm sure your fish suffered
> far less than she would have had you not done anything.
>
> Sounds like you're doing as well as can be expected. Hang in there and
> keep changing water!

Thanks for the continued encouragement, Elaine. The nitrite levels were
pretty much 0.3 before today's 5-gallon (20%) water change, which is
somewhat of a breakthrough. Perhaps this will be a turning point.

As for my euthanasia method of choice, it was influenced by this page and
a couple of other similar sources:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/faustus/nicoldaquaria/euthanasia.htm The
"freezing" approach has two different variations, one considered
significantly less humane than the other according to the above source.

Regards,
Ian.