Sodium Thiosulphate education

[Bill Stock]

I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the pond/aquariums. The
instructions I have read here in the past suggest that this should be enough
to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading the bucket, it states that I need
anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp of raw ST per 5 gallons of pond water.
This means that a 250 gallon water change would take up to 50 tsps. Given
that the bucket only contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water changes.

The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a powder. Has
this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce it's strength? At
this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime coat. Bummer.

[RichToyBox]

My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that came
with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds) with one
gallon of deionized water, and that would treat 18,000 plus gallons. I use
hose water, a postage scale to measure the ST, and make about 5 or 6 gallons
at a time. I think that 1 ounce treats about 150 gallons of water, and I
generally use double or triple, because it is so cheap. I bought a 50 pound
bucket, around $60.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the pond/aquariums.
>The instructions I have read here in the past suggest that this should be
>enough to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading the bucket, it states
>that I need anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp of raw ST per 5 gallons of
>pond water. This means that a 250 gallon water change would take up to 50
>tsps. Given that the bucket only contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water
>changes.
>
> The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a powder. Has
> this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce it's strength? At
> this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime coat. Bummer.
>
>
>

[Bill Stock]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
...
> My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that came
> with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds) with one
> gallon of deionized water, and that would treat 18,000 plus gallons. I
> use hose water, a postage scale to measure the ST, and make about 5 or 6
> gallons at a time. I think that 1 ounce treats about 150 gallons of
> water, and I generally use double or triple, because it is so cheap. I
> bought a 50 pound bucket, around $60.

Sounds like the same stuff. It looks like elongated rock salt. But according
to my directions, 500 g (2 cups) would only treat 1920 gallons. I want my
decimal place back! :)

It says to use 2.6 parts ST per part Chlorine. So if my water has 1.5 ppm of
Chlorine and Chlorine weighs twice as much as water (guess). Then ten
gallons of water (UK) has .0048 ounces of Chlorine. So I would need .01248
ounces of ST. So my 5 lb bucket should treat 64,000 gallons.

This is closer to your number, but not quite. My guestimate of Chlorine's
weight could be off. Any math whizzes out there?





> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the pond/aquariums.
>>The instructions I have read here in the past suggest that this should be
>>enough to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading the bucket, it states
>>that I need anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp of raw ST per 5 gallons of
>>pond water. This means that a 250 gallon water change would take up to 50
>>tsps. Given that the bucket only contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water
>>changes.
>>
>> The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a powder.
>> Has this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce it's
>> strength? At this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime coat.
>> Bummer.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Reel McKoi]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
...
> My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that came
> with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds) with one
> gallon of deionized water,
=======================
What is *deionized* water?
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

You know, a couple of days standing or a half day of good circulation
should take care of the chlorine without any treatment. Up to 10%,
slowly added should be totally a non-issue, especially if there is good
circulation.

Jim

Bill Stock wrote:
> I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the pond/aquariums. The
> instructions I have read here in the past suggest that this should be enough
> to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading the bucket, it states that I need
> anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp of raw ST per 5 gallons of pond water.
> This means that a 250 gallon water change would take up to 50 tsps. Given
> that the bucket only contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water changes.
>
> The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a powder. Has
> this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce it's strength? At
> this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime coat. Bummer.
>
>
>

[///Owen\\\\\\]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> "RichToyBox" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that
>> came with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds)
>> with one gallon of deionized water,
> =======================
> What is *deionized* water?

===============================================

To all intents and purposes deoinized water is the same as distilled water.
To distill water you boil it and condense the vapour. This leaves the stuff
dissolved in the water behind. To deionize water you pass the water over a
resin that removes any ions present.

Distillation - you remove the water from the impurities
Deionization - you remove the impurities from the water

[Elaine T]

///Owen\\\ wrote:
> Reel McKoi wrote:
>
>>"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that
>>>came with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds)
>>>with one gallon of deionized water,
>>
>>=======================
>>What is *deionized* water?
>
>
> ===============================================
>
> To all intents and purposes deoinized water is the same as distilled water.
> To distill water you boil it and condense the vapour. This leaves the stuff
> dissolved in the water behind. To deionize water you pass the water over a
> resin that removes any ions present.
>
> Distillation - you remove the water from the impurities
> Deionization - you remove the impurities from the water
>
>
>
Not quite. Deionization is mostly for removing salts. Dissolved
organic compounds, chelated metals, weak acids and other molecules that
are not 100% charged go right through a deionization column. Even
ammonia would go right through at low pH. Distilled water is
considerably purer than DI since only the water molecules evaporate and
everything, charged or not, is left behind. In sensitive applications
like biochemistry, DI water is generally unacceptable.

For dissolving thiosulfate to go in a pond, it probably doesn't matter
which you use. Distilled may be easier to find.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[///Owen\\\\\\]

Elaine T wrote:
> ///Owen\\\ wrote:
>> Reel McKoi wrote:
>>
>>> "RichToyBox" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that
>>>> came with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds)
>>>> with one gallon of deionized water,
>>>
>>> =======================
>>> What is *deionized* water?
>>
>>
>> ===============================================
>>
>> To all intents and purposes deoinized water is the same as distilled
>> water. To distill water you boil it and condense the vapour. This
>> leaves the stuff dissolved in the water behind. To deionize water
>> you pass the water over a resin that removes any ions present.
>>
>> Distillation - you remove the water from the impurities
>> Deionization - you remove the impurities from the water
>>
>>
>>
> Not quite. Deionization is mostly for removing salts. Dissolved
> organic compounds, chelated metals, weak acids and other molecules
> that are not 100% charged go right through a deionization column. Even
> ammonia would go right through at low pH. Distilled water is
> considerably purer than DI since only the water molecules evaporate
> and everything, charged or not, is left behind. In sensitive
> applications like biochemistry, DI water is generally unacceptable.
>
> For dissolving thiosulfate to go in a pond, it probably doesn't matter
> which you use. Distilled may be easier to find.
====================================

You're right, of course, but if you start with tap water....

[Reel McKoi]

"///Owen\\\" > wrote in message
news:W8c9e.1076184$6l.907923@pd7tw2no...
> Elaine T wrote:
> > ///Owen\\\ wrote:
> >> Reel McKoi wrote:
> >>
> >>> "RichToyBox" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>>> My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that
> >>>> came with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds)
> >>>> with one gallon of deionized water,
> >>>
> >>> =======================
> >>> What is *deionized* water?
> >>
> >>
> >> ===============================================
> >>
> >> To all intents and purposes deoinized water is the same as distilled
> >> water. To distill water you boil it and condense the vapour. This
> >> leaves the stuff dissolved in the water behind. To deionize water
> >> you pass the water over a resin that removes any ions present.
> >>
> >> Distillation - you remove the water from the impurities
> >> Deionization - you remove the impurities from the water
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Not quite. Deionization is mostly for removing salts. Dissolved
> > organic compounds, chelated metals, weak acids and other molecules
> > that are not 100% charged go right through a deionization column. Even
> > ammonia would go right through at low pH. Distilled water is
> > considerably purer than DI since only the water molecules evaporate
> > and everything, charged or not, is left behind. In sensitive
> > applications like biochemistry, DI water is generally unacceptable.
> >
> > For dissolving thiosulfate to go in a pond, it probably doesn't matter
> > which you use. Distilled may be easier to find.
> ====================================
>
> You're right, of course, but if you start with tap water....
=========================================
Thanks for the replies. :-) If I ever use ST again I'll use distilled
water. I can buy that anywhere.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[RichToyBox]

Look at this site for Doc Johnson's explanation.
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=75&category=13&search_term=dechlor
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "RichToyBox" > wrote in message
> ...
>> My ST is clear looking cylindrical crystals. The instructions that came
>> with it was to mix it, 500 grams (slightly over a 1.1 pounds) with one
>> gallon of deionized water, and that would treat 18,000 plus gallons. I
>> use hose water, a postage scale to measure the ST, and make about 5 or 6
>> gallons at a time. I think that 1 ounce treats about 150 gallons of
>> water, and I generally use double or triple, because it is so cheap. I
>> bought a 50 pound bucket, around $60.
>
> Sounds like the same stuff. It looks like elongated rock salt. But
> according to my directions, 500 g (2 cups) would only treat 1920 gallons.
> I want my decimal place back! :)
>
> It says to use 2.6 parts ST per part Chlorine. So if my water has 1.5 ppm
> of Chlorine and Chlorine weighs twice as much as water (guess). Then ten
> gallons of water (UK) has .0048 ounces of Chlorine. So I would need .01248
> ounces of ST. So my 5 lb bucket should treat 64,000 gallons.
>
> This is closer to your number, but not quite. My guestimate of Chlorine's
> weight could be off. Any math whizzes out there?
>
>
>
>
>
>> --
>> RichToyBox
>> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>>
>> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the pond/aquariums.
>>>The instructions I have read here in the past suggest that this should be
>>>enough to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading the bucket, it states
>>>that I need anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp of raw ST per 5 gallons of
>>>pond water. This means that a 250 gallon water change would take up to 50
>>>tsps. Given that the bucket only contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water
>>>changes.
>>>
>>> The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a powder.
>>> Has this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce it's
>>> strength? At this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime coat.
>>> Bummer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Lt. Kizhe Catson]

Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote:
> You know, a couple of days standing or a half day of good circulation
> should take care of the chlorine without any treatment. Up to 10%,

But not if there's chloramine as well (AFAIK).

> slowly added should be totally a non-issue, especially if there is good
> circulation.
>
> Jim
>
> Bill Stock wrote:
>
>> I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the
>> pond/aquariums. The instructions I have read here in the past suggest
>> that this should be enough to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading
>> the bucket, it states that I need anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp
>> of raw ST per 5 gallons of pond water. This means that a 250 gallon
>> water change would take up to 50 tsps. Given that the bucket only
>> contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water changes.
>>
>> The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a powder.
>> Has this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce it's
>> strength? At this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime coat.
>> Bummer.
>>
>>
>>

[Elaine T]

Lt. Kizhe Catson wrote:
> Phyllis and Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>> You know, a couple of days standing or a half day of good circulation
>> should take care of the chlorine without any treatment. Up to 10%,
>
>
> But not if there's chloramine as well (AFAIK).
>
>> slowly added should be totally a non-issue, especially if there is
>> good circulation.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Bill Stock wrote:
>>
>>> I just bought a 5 lb pail of Sodium Thiosulphate for the
>>> pond/aquariums. The instructions I have read here in the past suggest
>>> that this should be enough to dechlorinate lake Superior. But reading
>>> the bucket, it states that I need anywhere between 1/4 tsp and 1 tsp
>>> of raw ST per 5 gallons of pond water. This means that a 250 gallon
>>> water change would take up to 50 tsps. Given that the bucket only
>>> contains about 5 cups, that's 10 water changes.
>>>
>>> The stuff in the bucket looks like some sort of crystal, not a
>>> powder. Has this stuff been bound with some other chemical to reduce
>>> it's strength? At this rate it's no cheaper than the generic slime
>>> coat. Bummer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Chlorine and chloramine tend to react with any organic molecule they
encounter, oxidizing it. Cloramine is stable to sunlight and aeration,
but nearly as reactive as chlorine. It's actually very similar in
reactivity to potassium permanganate. Ponds and fishtanks have lots of
dissolved organics, bacteria, and sludge around so small doses of
chlorine or chloramine don't last long. A 10% water change worth of
chlorine would be gone pretty quickly even without the sunlight and
aeration in a typical pond.

Small amounts of either chemical in fishtanks and ponds can actually be
a positive thing, promoting a healthy oxidizing environment and lowering
parasite and bacterial populations. Chloramine T in particular is safe
enough for fish and filter bacteria that folks have tried it for
treatment of bacterial gill disease in aquaculture and for external
parasites and flukes in pond fish.

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/chloramine-T.htm
http://afs.allenpress.com/afsonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=1548-8640&volume=60&issue=1&page=63

So, I guess I'm saying don't sweat chloramines in small top-offs either.
I tried putting in up to 10% of fishtank water without treatment after
I first saw the aquaculture studies and have yet to see any fish stress,
even with my loaches and ram. I also tried not treating my last rwo
pond top-offs as well (about 7%), and saw no signs of toxicity when the
fish ate later in the day.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com