Treating Ich

[kiwitetra]

Hi everyone,

I have a newly setup tank and this is my first outbreak of ich.
Having done some research I am now completely confused as what course of action to take. Hopefully someone may have had a similar setup and can suggest best treatment.

I have a planted 25g tank with neon tetras and harlequin rasboras. I would prefer not to use meds as i'm worried that they may kill my nitrifying bacteria.

I have read conflicting information on salt, high temperatures, neon tetras and plants.
Can anyone confirm that this is an effective treatment considering my tetras and plants.

Removing fish/plants isn't an option as I only have the one tank. (this explains the ich :/) QT tank next on my list.

Thanks

Mark

[Tedd Jacobs]

"kiwitetra" wrote...
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a newly setup tank and this is my first outbreak of ich.
> Having done some research I am now completely confused as what course
> of action to take. Hopefully someone may have had a similar setup and
> can suggest best treatment.
>
> I have a planted 25g tank with neon tetras and harlequin rasboras. I
> would prefer not to use meds as i'm worried that they may kill my
> nitrifying bacteria.
>
> I have read conflicting information on salt, high temperatures, neon
> tetras and plants.
> Can anyone confirm that this is an effective treatment considering my
> tetras and plants.
>
> Removing fish/plants isn't an option as I only have the one tank. (this
> explains the ich :/) QT tank next on my list.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

i have a marked preference for utilizing the
'higher-temperature/adding-salt' method, coupled with frequent water
changes. i've experienced very good results with it. how it will affect
your tetras and rasboras i cannot say. i expect, and agree with you that it
would be better overall for both the plants and fish not to medicate. doing
nothing in this situation however is sure to make things worse.

my suggestion at the very least would be to raise the temperature and do a
daily vacuuming of the gravel, equivelent to about a 10-15% water change.
if i had to venture a guess off the top of my head i personally would add
the salt, if it was my tank. being as that it is not my tank, i can not
recommend that when i just dont know. i also seem to recall someone here at
one point suggesting covering the tank, shielding it from light. not sure
what that would do to your plants though, so i wouldnt try it either unless
someone else with more knowledge can chime in on either of these.

tedd.

--
How does one infer human behavior through studying the color of artic sea
water?

[Elaine T]

> "kiwitetra" wrote...
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>I have a newly setup tank and this is my first outbreak of ich.
>>Having done some research I am now completely confused as what course
>>of action to take. Hopefully someone may have had a similar setup and
>>can suggest best treatment.
>>
>>I have a planted 25g tank with neon tetras and harlequin rasboras. I
>>would prefer not to use meds as i'm worried that they may kill my
>>nitrifying bacteria.
>>
>>I have read conflicting information on salt, high temperatures, neon
>>tetras and plants.
>>Can anyone confirm that this is an effective treatment considering my
>>tetras and plants.
>>
>>Removing fish/plants isn't an option as I only have the one tank. (this
>>explains the ich :/) QT tank next on my list.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Mark
>

First, is there ammonia or nitrite in your tank? And are there only a
few spots (like 3-4 per fish)? If so, correcting the problem with
something like AmQuel+ or a series of water changes will likely help
tremendously. Seed your filter with some BioSpira and feed your fish
high protein foods to help strengthen them and build their natural
immunity. Then watch carefully and wait to see what happens.

If water params are OK and there's no clear reason for the outbreak, you
probably need to do something beyond watch and wait. No matter what you
do, something in your tank is not likely to like the ich treatment. 86
degrees and salt is hard on plants (melted my crypts), copper is toxic
to everything and requires a test kit to dose correctly, and
formalin/malachite is hard on tetras. Neither heat and salt nor
formalin/malachite will harm your biofilter. I'm not convinced about
copper.

I personally use Quick Cure at half the recommended dosage in my planted
tanks. Treat on days 1,4,7,and 11 and change 50% of the water before
the treatments on days 4 and 11. If there are still spots, you need to
switch treatments because more than four half-doses gets toxic to
tetras. There are medicines with only formalin in them - I've never
used one but they should be less toxic to tetras. Formalin/malachite
should kill the ich and leave plants and biofiltration intact.

If you want to try high temps and salt instead, gradually warm the tank
up to 86 degrees over a day or two. Add an airstone because warmer
water carries oxygen poorly. Once temps are up and stable, very
gradually add salt to 1 tsp/gallon - be careful here because tetras
don't like salt. Watch your fish carefully and water change with fresh
water if they seem stressed from a salt addition. Once the ich is gone,
wait 3 days and then lower temps 1-2 degrees a day, and do small water
changes to gradually lower the amount of salt.

Hope this helps and no matter what you do, change lots of water. I'd go
for watch and wait or formalin/malachite myself but it's your call. :-)

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[[email protected]]

Is vacuuming the gravel mandatory? Wouldnt the ich parasite die within
four days if it doesnt attach to a fish?

I am also fighting Ich, altough at a smaller scale I guess because only
my gourami show white spots and they are just three or four.

I raised temp to 30C and am using half dose of Super Ick cure becuase
of fear for my pleco and my apple snail. Don't know what is in it right
now, I just know that it says that in California tests were shown to
provoque cancer on humans. :)
Oh yeah and it is blue. I just added another half dose today as per
instructions, it says to wait 48 hours before andding a second dose and
then wait another 48h and replace 25% of water.
I will do that.

I think I know where the ick comes from in my case, because it showed
up when I got fish from the same LFS. (It's rare for me to go there
anyway and funnily enough that's where I got my dwarf gouramis).

[Tedd Jacobs]

> wrote...
> Is vacuuming the gravel mandatory? Wouldnt the ich parasite die within
> four days if it doesnt attach to a fish?

nothing is actually "mandatory", its all optional to do anything.

yes, without a host they cannot persist. however, unless you are planning
on removing all your fish, it is much easier to vacuum the gravel then to
take the chances. think of it this way, to use a crude analogy; imagin
rain drops as ich, imagin yourself as a fish, every rain drop that hits you
is ich attaching itself. unless you remove yourself it is inevitable you
are going to get hit by raindrops. removing as many of the raindrops
(::vacuuming the gravel) as you can and you stand a higher chance of not
getting hit by as many raindrops and thus reducing the outbreak.

tedd.

--
How can i be an A(nthro)pologist? I dont have an armchair.

[NetMax]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
>> "kiwitetra" wrote...
>>
>>>Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>I have a newly setup tank and this is my first outbreak of ich.
>>>Having done some research I am now completely confused as what course
>>>of action to take. Hopefully someone may have had a similar setup and
>>>can suggest best treatment.
<snip>
>
> I personally use Quick Cure at half the recommended dosage in my
> planted tanks. Treat on days 1,4,7,and 11 and change 50% of the water
> before the treatments on days 4 and 11. If there are still spots, you
> need to switch treatments because more than four half-doses gets toxic
> to tetras. There are medicines with only formalin in them - I've never
> used one but they should be less toxic to tetras. Formalin/malachite
> should kill the ich and leave plants and biofiltration intact.

To give you some perspective on treatment variations, I typically treat
half-dosage (Quick-Cure) on days 1,3,5,7 and sometimes 9, with large
water changes before each dosage, by gravel vacuuming. This is probably
not a better or worse way to do it as compared to Elaine's treatment. It
just gives you a idea of the range of treatments within which you can
expect success.
cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[kiwitetra]

"Elaine T" wrote in message
...
"kiwitetra" wrote...

Hi everyone,

I have a newly setup tank and this is my first outbreak of ich.
Having done some research I am now completely confused as what course
of action to take. Hopefully someone may have had a similar setup and
can suggest best treatment.
snip

I personally use Quick Cure at half the recommended dosage in my
planted tanks. Treat on days 1,4,7,and 11 and change 50% of the water
before the treatments on days 4 and 11. If there are still spots, you
need to switch treatments because more than four half-doses gets toxic
to tetras. There are medicines with only formalin in them - I've never
used one but they should be less toxic to tetras. Formalin/malachite
should kill the ich and leave plants and biofiltration intact.

To give you some perspective on treatment variations, I typically treat
half-dosage (Quick-Cure) on days 1,3,5,7 and sometimes 9, with large
water changes before each dosage, by gravel vacuuming. This is probably
not a better or worse way to do it as compared to Elaine's treatment. It
just gives you a idea of the range of treatments within which you can
expect success.
cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Thanks again for your suggestions.

I decided to go for a medication approach after confirmation that this wouldn't kill off my benefical bacteria. I have started using a product called White Spot Cure which is a blue colour.

Day 0 - noticed 2-3 tetras with 2-3 spots each
Day 1 - full dose, no change
Day 2 - 1 Harlequin broke out in white spots, 15-20 per side
Day 3 - tetras looking good, 2-3 still have 3-4 spots each but I'm sure they are different ones from the original few that had them
Day 4 - gave another full dose, noticed one plant dyed a little bit blue but otherwise unaffected (it was the tallest plant closest to the entry point of the med)
Day 5 - no change to spots on tetras or harlequin
Day 6 - still no change
day 7 - will do a large water change tonight and then add another dose

Does the medication build up in the water over time ? I notice some change water before every dose and others before every 2nd or 3rd dose. My medication says to do a 'total' water between 3rd and 4th dose, but it looks like the lfs has blacked the word 'total' out.

If the meds dobuild up I found that if you 1/2 dose and do a 25% water change before each dose the concentration will never be more than 2x the full dosage. Check my numbers I maybe be wrong on this.

Thanks again

Mark

[[email protected]]

I think I have posted a message about ich before.

I am suggesting easy and less stressfull way.

Point is that, if you do not want to worry too much, you must have two
spare "container"
I am not saying it should be a tank, but a plastic container can do the
same thing.

You must remove all of your fish and treat there, temporarily remove
your fish and clean the treatment tank (you can also call hospital
tank) and back transfer your fish into. And do your treatments as
suggested. (I suggest using both heat and chemical treatments). If
your are going to do chemical treatment use, use one fourt of suggested
dose and keep your fish in the treatment water 4 times longer. Repeat
treatment for three times for complete removal of the protozoan.

Otherwise, you may go into a kaotic situation in that you might have
resistant ich or resistant fish, both are problem.

regards,

[Gill Passman]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I think I have posted a message about ich before.
>
> I am suggesting easy and less stressfull way.
>
> Point is that, if you do not want to worry too much, you must have two
> spare "container"
> I am not saying it should be a tank, but a plastic container can do the
> same thing.
>
> You must remove all of your fish and treat there, temporarily remove
> your fish and clean the treatment tank (you can also call hospital
> tank) and back transfer your fish into. And do your treatments as
> suggested. (I suggest using both heat and chemical treatments). If
> your are going to do chemical treatment use, use one fourt of suggested
> dose and keep your fish in the treatment water 4 times longer. Repeat
> treatment for three times for complete removal of the protozoan.
>
> Otherwise, you may go into a kaotic situation in that you might have
> resistant ich or resistant fish, both are problem.
>
> regards,
>
Can you explain why you think that fish that are resistant to ich is a
problem? Surely, it's only a problem for the ich

[Elaine T]

wrote:
> I think I have posted a message about ich before.
>
> I am suggesting easy and less stressfull way.
>
> Point is that, if you do not want to worry too much, you must have two
> spare "container"
> I am not saying it should be a tank, but a plastic container can do the
> same thing.
>
> You must remove all of your fish and treat there, temporarily remove
> your fish and clean the treatment tank (you can also call hospital
> tank) and back transfer your fish into. And do your treatments as
> suggested. (I suggest using both heat and chemical treatments). If
> your are going to do chemical treatment use, use one fourt of suggested
> dose and keep your fish in the treatment water 4 times longer. Repeat
> treatment for three times for complete removal of the protozoan.
>
> Otherwise, you may go into a kaotic situation in that you might have
> resistant ich or resistant fish, both are problem.
>
> regards,
>
I think you're confusing freshwater ich with sal****er. FW ich does not
require removal of the fish. And how is treating the fish in an
unfamiliar, small container less stressful than treating in their "home"?

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com