New to Goldfish...having troubles.

[Adam Lion]

Okay, well ebfore i came to uni i had goldfish in the pond in our back
garden. Both of them lived fine and never had a problem and i used to go and
watch them while studying for my exams.

Well I have final exams coming up, and i live in a flat, so no pond, so i
thought id get a tnak and some goldfish. So off i go to the store. I quizzed
the guy on what to do, my mum had issues keeping ehr fish alive in another
pond so i figured they could be pretty fragile. So i came away with a
smallish tank, gravel for the bottom, a water pump thing and 2 small
goldfish (about an inch and a half to 2 inches long each). The guy told me
to wash the gravel, so i did that. I put it in the bottom of the tank and
spread it out pretty evenly. He told me to half fill the tank or so, add the
pump, then to rest the bag with the fish in the water (we did this back home
with pondfish to let the temperature adjust). Coming home we noticed the bag
had a small leak, but the fish seemed completely undisturbed by this. I elft
the back there for alkmost an hour, then, as the guy in the store had told
me, i took the corner off the bag and left it. After about half an hour both
fish had swum out and were happily swimming around.

Now the guy told me that theyd probably settle near the bottom of the tank
at first, and that i should top it up slowly then leave it (wtihout feeding
the fish) until they were swimming aroudn happily.

Well they swam around msot of the afternoon in the lwoer half of the tank.
The smaller fish settled in one corner, pretty much resting on the gravel,
but staying upright. The other seemed to playa roudn in the bubble stream
form the filter a bit then did the same. I figured this was what the guy had
said, so i didnt worry and when it got dark outside i turned the lights off
and went to bed.

When i woke up this morning the bigger of the fish is dead and the smaller
one is still sat in the same corner at the bottom. he doesnt appear to be
distresse,d gasping for air or anything. he's swum out into the middle a
little then backed away into the corner again a few times, but doesant seem
too happy.

Im wondering what killed the bigger fish, and if it's related to the reason
the smaller one is just sitting in the corner. my girlfriend picked out the
fish that died, so it'd be really useful if i could work out what went
wrong, i dont want to just egt mroe fish if they're going to die. Our water
isnt the greatest, but the shop is in the same area, the guy said it would
be okay, and it seems really clear.

anyone have any suggestions. When the store opens im gonna call them and ask
them about it, and i can go through this afternoon if needs be. I want to
get a couple of nice happy healthy fish, but obviously im not gonna get mroe
fish if they're going to die straight away.

hope soemone can help

Adam

[xkatx]

"Adam Lion" <adamatadrockdotathdotcx> wrote in message
...
> Okay, well ebfore i came to uni i had goldfish in the pond in our back
> garden. Both of them lived fine and never had a problem and i used to go
> and watch them while studying for my exams.
>
> Well I have final exams coming up, and i live in a flat, so no pond, so i
> thought id get a tnak and some goldfish. So off i go to the store. I
> quizzed the guy on what to do, my mum had issues keeping ehr fish alive in
> another pond so i figured they could be pretty fragile. So i came away
> with a smallish tank, gravel for the bottom, a water pump thing and 2
> small goldfish (about an inch and a half to 2 inches long each). The guy
> told me to wash the gravel, so i did that. I put it in the bottom of the
> tank and spread it out pretty evenly. He told me to half fill the tank or
> so, add the pump, then to rest the bag with the fish in the water (we did
> this back home with pondfish to let the temperature adjust). Coming home
> we noticed the bag had a small leak, but the fish seemed completely
> undisturbed by this. I elft the back there for alkmost an hour, then, as
> the guy in the store had told me, i took the corner off the bag and left
> it. After about half an hour both fish had swum out and were happily
> swimming around.
>
> Now the guy told me that theyd probably settle near the bottom of the tank
> at first, and that i should top it up slowly then leave it (wtihout
> feeding the fish) until they were swimming aroudn happily.
>
> Well they swam around msot of the afternoon in the lwoer half of the tank.
> The smaller fish settled in one corner, pretty much resting on the gravel,
> but staying upright. The other seemed to playa roudn in the bubble stream
> form the filter a bit then did the same. I figured this was what the guy
> had said, so i didnt worry and when it got dark outside i turned the
> lights off and went to bed.
>
> When i woke up this morning the bigger of the fish is dead and the smaller
> one is still sat in the same corner at the bottom. he doesnt appear to be
> distresse,d gasping for air or anything. he's swum out into the middle a
> little then backed away into the corner again a few times, but doesant
> seem too happy.
>
> Im wondering what killed the bigger fish, and if it's related to the
> reason the smaller one is just sitting in the corner. my girlfriend picked
> out the fish that died, so it'd be really useful if i could work out what
> went wrong, i dont want to just egt mroe fish if they're going to die. Our
> water isnt the greatest, but the shop is in the same area, the guy said it
> would be okay, and it seems really clear.
>
> anyone have any suggestions. When the store opens im gonna call them and
> ask them about it, and i can go through this afternoon if needs be. I want
> to get a couple of nice happy healthy fish, but obviously im not gonna get
> mroe fish if they're going to die straight away.
>
> hope soemone can help
>
> Adam

Well, first off, sounds like the guy at the store is just trying to get rid
of fish. I'm not sure what kind of pet store would tell you to set up a new
tank and add fish at the same time. This, I've noticed, seems to leave more
fish dead than alive, or in your case, half your fish dead.
Set up a tank first. Let it cycle. There's many water conditioners that
can be used to get all your levels up to par and allow for a happy home for
any type of fish - be it freshwater, sal****er, whatever. Here we have all
kinds of treatments for a variety of water types and fish types... I haven't
set up a new tank in ages, but I do add a variety of fish to all my tanks
every now and then. I have 2 tanks of tropicals, one sal****er and 1
goldfish tank here at home. I also have 2 goldfish tanks set up at my dad's
work for extra goldfish storage when they get too big/too many in my tank at
home.

One thing I NEVER do is add the water from the bag that the fish came in
from the store. This can lead to problems if the water is not free of
everything, as your tank should be a healthy tank. I do, however, float my
fish in the tank for a little while (usually at least 10 mins, sometimes
longer if I find other things to do around the house) then I remove the fish
from the bag and put them in a fish dip antiseptic (I find at fish pet
stores that specialize in fish only, rather than just your average fish
store that supplies for all types of pets) and the water for the antiseptic
is the same temp as my tank, to allow less of a shock from being transported
and moved so much with different temps. Fish stays in the dip for about
10-15 seconds, then it goes into his new tank.

It just gives the fish an extra cleaning in case there was any illness in
the tank at the pet store. I've also seen that most pet stores here have
one filtration system for a whole bunch of their display tanks and fish...
All the fish share the same recycled water, and that means if one fish gets
sick, then all the fish have the potential to get what the one has or had.

If I were you, I'd be a bit upset at the pet store, and I'd go back there,
but not for fish. Maybe pick up a book or two on goldfish (or fish of your
choice) and read it over. Or try the library or see if you can locate
someone with some informative books that you could borrow, and over the next
couple days, read through them and while you do that, allow your current
tank to properly cycle and become stable enough to add some fish.

Another good thing about reading up, even online, about fish is that when
you go into a store, you will get less runaround, and you'll have a better
idea on what to ask, as well as what kind of answers you should get!

That's just my 2¢... Maybe wait for a few more responses to see what others
have to say as well! You can never have too much information, experiences
or suggestions of what works for others and what doesn't work for others.

Best of luck with your fish, and if you loved the fish at your mum's home,
don't let this one experience turn you away from fish. They're great, and
goldfish, I think, are great starters since they are hardly and fairly low
maintenance (when compared with a lot of other fish)

[Adam Lion]

>> Well I have final exams coming up, and i live in a flat, so no pond, so i
>> thought id get a tnak and some goldfish. So off i go to the store. I
>> quizzed the guy on what to do, my mum had issues keeping ehr fish alive
>> in another pond so i figured they could be pretty fragile. So i came away
>> with a smallish tank, gravel for the bottom, a water pump thing and 2
>> small goldfish (about an inch and a half to 2 inches long each). The guy
>> told me to wash the gravel, so i did that. I put it in the bottom of the
>> tank and spread it out pretty evenly. He told me to half fill the tank or
>> so, add the pump, then to rest the bag with the fish in the water (we did
>> this back home with pondfish to let the temperature adjust). Coming home
>> we noticed the bag had a small leak, but the fish seemed completely
>> undisturbed by this. I elft the back there for alkmost an hour, then, as
>> the guy in the store had told me, i took the corner off the bag and left
>> it. After about half an hour both fish had swum out and were happily
>> swimming around.
>>
>> Now the guy told me that theyd probably settle near the bottom of the
>> tank at first, and that i should top it up slowly then leave it (wtihout
>> feeding the fish) until they were swimming aroudn happily.
>>
>> Well they swam around msot of the afternoon in the lwoer half of the
>> tank. The smaller fish settled in one corner, pretty much resting on the
>> gravel, but staying upright. The other seemed to playa roudn in the
>> bubble stream form the filter a bit then did the same. I figured this was
>> what the guy had said, so i didnt worry and when it got dark outside i
>> turned the lights off and went to bed.
>>
>> When i woke up this morning the bigger of the fish is dead and the
>> smaller one is still sat in the same corner at the bottom. he doesnt
>> appear to be distresse,d gasping for air or anything. he's swum out into
>> the middle a little then backed away into the corner again a few times,
>> but doesant seem too happy.
>>
>> Im wondering what killed the bigger fish, and if it's related to the
>> reason the smaller one is just sitting in the corner. my girlfriend
>> picked out the fish that died, so it'd be really useful if i could work
>> out what went wrong, i dont want to just egt mroe fish if they're going
>> to die. Our water isnt the greatest, but the shop is in the same area,
>> the guy said it would be okay, and it seems really clear.
>>
>> anyone have any suggestions. When the store opens im gonna call them and
>> ask them about it, and i can go through this afternoon if needs be. I
>> want to get a couple of nice happy healthy fish, but obviously im not
>> gonna get mroe fish if they're going to die straight away.
>>
>> hope soemone can help
>>
>> Adam
>
> Well, first off, sounds like the guy at the store is just trying to get
> rid of fish. I'm not sure what kind of pet store would tell you to set up
> a new tank and add fish at the same time. This, I've noticed, seems to
> leave more fish dead than alive, or in your case, half your fish dead.
> Set up a tank first. Let it cycle. There's many water conditioners that
> can be used to get all your levels up to par and allow for a happy home
> for any type of fish - be it freshwater, sal****er, whatever. Here we
> have all kinds of treatments for a variety of water types and fish
> types... I haven't set up a new tank in ages, but I do add a variety of
> fish to all my tanks every now and then. I have 2 tanks of tropicals, one
> sal****er and 1 goldfish tank here at home. I also have 2 goldfish tanks
> set up at my dad's work for extra goldfish storage when they get too
> big/too many in my tank at home.
>
> One thing I NEVER do is add the water from the bag that the fish came in
> from the store. This can lead to problems if the water is not free of
> everything, as your tank should be a healthy tank. I do, however, float
> my fish in the tank for a little while (usually at least 10 mins,
> sometimes longer if I find other things to do around the house) then I
> remove the fish from the bag and put them in a fish dip antiseptic (I find
> at fish pet stores that specialize in fish only, rather than just your
> average fish store that supplies for all types of pets) and the water for
> the antiseptic is the same temp as my tank, to allow less of a shock from
> being transported and moved so much with different temps. Fish stays in
> the dip for about 10-15 seconds, then it goes into his new tank.
>
> It just gives the fish an extra cleaning in case there was any illness in
> the tank at the pet store. I've also seen that most pet stores here have
> one filtration system for a whole bunch of their display tanks and fish...
> All the fish share the same recycled water, and that means if one fish
> gets sick, then all the fish have the potential to get what the one has or
> had.
>
> If I were you, I'd be a bit upset at the pet store, and I'd go back there,
> but not for fish. Maybe pick up a book or two on goldfish (or fish of
> your choice) and read it over. Or try the library or see if you can
> locate someone with some informative books that you could borrow, and over
> the next couple days, read through them and while you do that, allow your
> current tank to properly cycle and become stable enough to add some fish.
>
> Another good thing about reading up, even online, about fish is that when
> you go into a store, you will get less runaround, and you'll have a better
> idea on what to ask, as well as what kind of answers you should get!
>
> That's just my 2¢... Maybe wait for a few more responses to see what
> others have to say as well! You can never have too much information,
> experiences or suggestions of what works for others and what doesn't work
> for others.
>
> Best of luck with your fish, and if you loved the fish at your mum's home,
> don't let this one experience turn you away from fish. They're great, and
> goldfish, I think, are great starters since they are hardly and fairly low
> maintenance (when compared with a lot of other fish)
>

I went back to the store today, it was a different guy in. He asked me to
rbing a sample fo the tank water and he tested ph level, ammonia and
nitrates, and they were all fine. He suggested if the other fish didnt seem
distressed or anything to leave the tank a while and see if the fish perked
up or not, and to make sure to not feed the fish while it seemed 'under the
weather'. the fish that's left in the bottom still doesnt seem distressed
particularly. it appears to be resting on the gravel at the bottom and just
not doing anything. he's been there almost a day now, so i figure i should
sjut leave him and see.

I'm not likely to let it put me off fish. At the worst, if this one dies ill
leave the tank cycling while i do my exams over the next couple of weeks
then see how things are. I dont have a ehater or a light. the store guys
(both of them) have assured me that for only 2 fish in a tank this size i
shouldnt worry too much. they get a proper night day cycle being in our
living room, and the temperature doesnt really change (the room is heated
nby an array of crt monitors, no central heating. when it egts too hot the
window is opened, but the breeze only goes down one side of the room, not
the side where the fish are.

anyway, ill see how it goes and keep you posted, thanks for the help :)

if anyone has any mroe suggestions im all ears.

Adam

[xkatx]

"Adam Lion" <adamatadrockdotathdotcx> wrote in message
...
>>> Well I have final exams coming up, and i live in a flat, so no pond, so
>>> i thought id get a tnak and some goldfish. So off i go to the store. I
>>> quizzed the guy on what to do, my mum had issues keeping ehr fish alive
>>> in another pond so i figured they could be pretty fragile. So i came
>>> away with a smallish tank, gravel for the bottom, a water pump thing and
>>> 2 small goldfish (about an inch and a half to 2 inches long each). The
>>> guy told me to wash the gravel, so i did that. I put it in the bottom of
>>> the tank and spread it out pretty evenly. He told me to half fill the
>>> tank or so, add the pump, then to rest the bag with the fish in the
>>> water (we did this back home with pondfish to let the temperature
>>> adjust). Coming home we noticed the bag had a small leak, but the fish
>>> seemed completely undisturbed by this. I elft the back there for alkmost
>>> an hour, then, as the guy in the store had told me, i took the corner
>>> off the bag and left it. After about half an hour both fish had swum out
>>> and were happily swimming around.
>>>
>>> Now the guy told me that theyd probably settle near the bottom of the
>>> tank at first, and that i should top it up slowly then leave it (wtihout
>>> feeding the fish) until they were swimming aroudn happily.
>>>
>>> Well they swam around msot of the afternoon in the lwoer half of the
>>> tank. The smaller fish settled in one corner, pretty much resting on the
>>> gravel, but staying upright. The other seemed to playa roudn in the
>>> bubble stream form the filter a bit then did the same. I figured this
>>> was what the guy had said, so i didnt worry and when it got dark outside
>>> i turned the lights off and went to bed.
>>>
>>> When i woke up this morning the bigger of the fish is dead and the
>>> smaller one is still sat in the same corner at the bottom. he doesnt
>>> appear to be distresse,d gasping for air or anything. he's swum out into
>>> the middle a little then backed away into the corner again a few times,
>>> but doesant seem too happy.
>>>
>>> Im wondering what killed the bigger fish, and if it's related to the
>>> reason the smaller one is just sitting in the corner. my girlfriend
>>> picked out the fish that died, so it'd be really useful if i could work
>>> out what went wrong, i dont want to just egt mroe fish if they're going
>>> to die. Our water isnt the greatest, but the shop is in the same area,
>>> the guy said it would be okay, and it seems really clear.
>>>
>>> anyone have any suggestions. When the store opens im gonna call them and
>>> ask them about it, and i can go through this afternoon if needs be. I
>>> want to get a couple of nice happy healthy fish, but obviously im not
>>> gonna get mroe fish if they're going to die straight away.
>>>
>>> hope soemone can help
>>>
>>> Adam
>>
>> Well, first off, sounds like the guy at the store is just trying to get
>> rid of fish. I'm not sure what kind of pet store would tell you to set
>> up a new tank and add fish at the same time. This, I've noticed, seems
>> to leave more fish dead than alive, or in your case, half your fish
>> dead.
>> Set up a tank first. Let it cycle. There's many water conditioners that
>> can be used to get all your levels up to par and allow for a happy home
>> for any type of fish - be it freshwater, sal****er, whatever. Here we
>> have all kinds of treatments for a variety of water types and fish
>> types... I haven't set up a new tank in ages, but I do add a variety of
>> fish to all my tanks every now and then. I have 2 tanks of tropicals,
>> one sal****er and 1 goldfish tank here at home. I also have 2 goldfish
>> tanks set up at my dad's work for extra goldfish storage when they get
>> too big/too many in my tank at home.
>>
>> One thing I NEVER do is add the water from the bag that the fish came in
>> from the store. This can lead to problems if the water is not free of
>> everything, as your tank should be a healthy tank. I do, however, float
>> my fish in the tank for a little while (usually at least 10 mins,
>> sometimes longer if I find other things to do around the house) then I
>> remove the fish from the bag and put them in a fish dip antiseptic (I
>> find at fish pet stores that specialize in fish only, rather than just
>> your average fish store that supplies for all types of pets) and the
>> water for the antiseptic is the same temp as my tank, to allow less of a
>> shock from being transported and moved so much with different temps.
>> Fish stays in the dip for about 10-15 seconds, then it goes into his new
>> tank.
>>
>> It just gives the fish an extra cleaning in case there was any illness in
>> the tank at the pet store. I've also seen that most pet stores here have
>> one filtration system for a whole bunch of their display tanks and
>> fish... All the fish share the same recycled water, and that means if one
>> fish gets sick, then all the fish have the potential to get what the one
>> has or had.
>>
>> If I were you, I'd be a bit upset at the pet store, and I'd go back
>> there, but not for fish. Maybe pick up a book or two on goldfish (or
>> fish of your choice) and read it over. Or try the library or see if you
>> can locate someone with some informative books that you could borrow, and
>> over the next couple days, read through them and while you do that, allow
>> your current tank to properly cycle and become stable enough to add some
>> fish.
>>
>> Another good thing about reading up, even online, about fish is that when
>> you go into a store, you will get less runaround, and you'll have a
>> better idea on what to ask, as well as what kind of answers you should
>> get!
>>
>> That's just my 2¢... Maybe wait for a few more responses to see what
>> others have to say as well! You can never have too much information,
>> experiences or suggestions of what works for others and what doesn't work
>> for others.
>>
>> Best of luck with your fish, and if you loved the fish at your mum's
>> home, don't let this one experience turn you away from fish. They're
>> great, and goldfish, I think, are great starters since they are hardly
>> and fairly low maintenance (when compared with a lot of other fish)
>>
>
> I went back to the store today, it was a different guy in. He asked me to
> rbing a sample fo the tank water and he tested ph level, ammonia and
> nitrates, and they were all fine. He suggested if the other fish didnt
> seem distressed or anything to leave the tank a while and see if the fish
> perked up or not, and to make sure to not feed the fish while it seemed
> 'under the weather'. the fish that's left in the bottom still doesnt seem
> distressed particularly. it appears to be resting on the gravel at the
> bottom and just not doing anything. he's been there almost a day now, so i
> figure i should sjut leave him and see.
>
> I'm not likely to let it put me off fish. At the worst, if this one dies
> ill leave the tank cycling while i do my exams over the next couple of
> weeks then see how things are. I dont have a ehater or a light. the store
> guys (both of them) have assured me that for only 2 fish in a tank this
> size i shouldnt worry too much. they get a proper night day cycle being in
> our living room, and the temperature doesnt really change (the room is
> heated nby an array of crt monitors, no central heating. when it egts too
> hot the window is opened, but the breeze only goes down one side of the
> room, not the side where the fish are.
>
> anyway, ill see how it goes and keep you posted, thanks for the help :)
>
> if anyone has any mroe suggestions im all ears.
>
> Adam

One thing I like best about goldfish: You don't really need to monitor the
temp very closely since they often don't need any heaters. They're fairly
hardy and can often adjust to changes in water temps if they are gradual and
not sudden changes... I notice that my goldfish tank often stays pretty
stable, since it's not directly near a window or heater or window, so it
pretty much kind of heats and cools itself just fine.
The guy was right about lighting... Goldfish usually like the day/night
cycle... It seems to keep them a little less stressed when they have the
natural light/dark times during a day, as they normally would in the wild.
I usually turn off my light on my tank at night, mainly because the light is
bright enough to drift upstairs and into the bedrooms when the door is open.
I only have lights to promote plant growth in my tank.
If your fish is just sitting at the bottom but doesn't seem distressed, then
there might not be anything to worry about. He could just be taking his
time adjusting to his new home, but keep an eye on him. I added a couple
fish to my one tank the other day, and the new fish aren't really doing much
like the regulars are. I also took away some of the larger feeders
yesterday and moved them to a different tank, so my new fish might just be
adjusting as well. They eat fine but kind of just float around the bubbles
or plants without much action like the others. They're also quite a bit
smaller, so I don't worry too much. They seem to still be alright, and
their mood seems to be similar to your fish.
Hopefully your last fish won't die! If your water is fine and levels are
good, every now and then you're bound to buy a fish that isn't perfect and
perhaps the stress alone is enough to make him die, and in that case,
there's often not much you can do. You seemed to have done everything well
enough, but I've had the odd fish die within a day or so of getting it. It
just happens since some fish get real stressed real easy.

[nk]

Adam,
I just lost my first message to you.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you that you made two major errors, one of
which you can do something about as soon as you can get to a store:

FIRST: Your tank did not cycle. Go to the nearest aquarium shop that
carries a product called STABILITY by SeaChem. It will help cycle and
settle the tank down quickly. Afterward, at your leisure, do a search
and learn about cycling your aquarium so you understand what happened.

SECOND: You did not acclimate your fish properly. While the bag is
floating, you must add a little bit of the aquarium water to it at a
time. Wait 5-10-15 minutes to see if there is a bad reaction from your
fish. If not, add more water -same amount as you just added - to the
bag and repeat until more than 70% of the water in the bag is from your
tank. You may have to first empty some of the water from your bag (use
a small cup or ladle to take it out, and get rid of it.) When the fish
has been acclimated, you may net him out of the bag, or empty most of
the water into your sink (squeeze bag at the end so fish doesn't go down
the drain) and then let the fish swim into the tank.

IF you fish shows signs of stress after you first add the tank water to
the bag, go slower and add much less of the water.

The reason for this is that your home water and the water the fish is in
may be very different in PH, hardness, salinity (salt), ammonia and
other factors. If you don't acclimate the fish, they go into shock --
so you must do it slowly.

The advice of not filling the tank makes no sense whatever to me. You
would then have to top it off, adding still more water to the aquarium
before your fish have adjusted to the first change from bag to aquarium!
Did they tell you about treating the water with dechlorinator first????

Keep us posted.

n

[nk]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care1.htm#buying%20a%20new%20goldfish

This is an excellent web site for an overview of what where why and how.

n

[Adam Lion]

"nk" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care1.htm#buying%20a%20new%20goldfish
>
> This is an excellent web site for an overview of what where why and how.
>
> n

it seems to have a lot of good pointers, and thanks for the advice. Went
back to the store today and the guy said i should leave the tank to cycle
before trying more fish. It's been cycling for nearly 3 days now. Thank's
for all the advice and ill let you know how it goes when i try adding
another fish or two.

cheers
Adam

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Adam how big is your tank?

[Adam Lion]

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Adam how big is your tank?

just under 10 gallons (US gallons. which is normally used).

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Adam Lion wrote:
>
> "Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Adam how big is your tank?
>
> just under 10 gallons (US gallons. which is normally used).

I see, its only big enough for one small goldfish!