pond plants

[CanadianCowboy]

Hello all,

since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
soil or media to grow in.

Any suggestions ?

[JamesG]

I have been using potting soil with gravel on the top of the pot to
prevent soil from escaping. My pond is reasonably clear, I would be
curious about other better options.

[George]

"CanadianCowboy" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all,
>
> since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
> I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
> I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
> I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of soil
> or media to grow in.
>
> Any suggestions ?

You can use bentonite clay, if you can find a source (drilling supply companies
are one. Pump supply companies are another). You can also use a product called
Schultx's aquatic plant soil mix, which is actually baked fullers earth that has
been granulated. I hope this helps. Note: Bentonite will swell to up to 20
times its dry volume when it gets wet, so it is a good idea to thoroughly wet
the clay in a tub first, using small amounts until you get the volume you need.
It is very slippery when wet, so don't get it on the ground where anyone can
step on it and slip and fall. After you've made up enough to plant your plants,
mix a little aquarium gravel in with it and simply plant your plants in a
planter, and submerge the whole thing into your pond. It won't affect your
water clarity if you do it this way.

[San Diego Joe]

"CanadianCowboy" wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
> I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
> I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
> I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
> soil or media to grow in.
>
> Any suggestions ?

I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.


San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.

"We need to make a sacrifice to the pond gods, find me a young virgin... oh,
and bring something to kill"

[Charles]

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:25:55 GMT, CanadianCowboy >
wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>soil or media to grow in.
>
>Any suggestions ?


I just use dirt. Put some gravel or rocks on top to keep the fish
out. It sometimes clouds the water a bit, but then settles.

what is sold for potting soil here floats, lots of perlite and wood
bark products.

I have read that the Schultz product will break pumps, if that is a
consideration.

Coarse sand should work, I have also read of people just letting the
plants loose in the water, no soil. Mine get that way if I don't
divide them often.


--
Charles

Does not play well with others.

[Reel McKoi]

"CanadianCowboy" > wrote in message
...
> Hello all,
>
> since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
> I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
> I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
> I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
> soil or media to grow in.
>
> Any suggestions ?
=======================
A sand and gravel mix works for some pond plants.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[2pods]

>
> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just
> be
> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>
........also remember to take the cat out first ;-)

Peter

[George]

"2pods" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
>> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>>
> .......also remember to take the cat out first ;-)
>
> Peter

And make sure the cat hasn't used it first. :-)

[Elaine T]

Charles wrote:

> I just use dirt. Put some gravel or rocks on top to keep the fish
> out. It sometimes clouds the water a bit, but then settles.
>
> what is sold for potting soil here floats, lots of perlite and wood
> bark products.
>
> I have read that the Schultz product will break pumps, if that is a
> consideration.
>
Break pumps how? If chunks of it get past the prefilter? Enquiring
minds with this stuff in their ponds need to know!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

San Diego Joe wrote:
> "CanadianCowboy" wrote:
>
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>>I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>>I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>>I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>>soil or media to grow in.
>>
>>Any suggestions ?
>
>
> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.

Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.

TIA!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Sean Dinh]

kitty litter...
http://la.znet.com/~seannydinh/Pix/Bog05.JPG
Same bog, 8 months later...
http://la.znet.com/~seannydinh/Pix/021405Ficus.jpg

CanadianCowboy wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
> I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
> I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
> I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
> soil or media to grow in.
>
> Any suggestions ?

[Sean Dinh]

Walmart

Elaine T wrote:

> Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
> litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.

[George]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. ..
> San Diego Joe wrote:
>> "CanadianCowboy" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>>>I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>>>I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>>>I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>>>soil or media to grow in.
>>>
>>>Any suggestions ?
>>
>>
>> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
>> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>
> Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat litter
> without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>
> TIA!
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Pure, unadulterated cat litter is simply betonite. You can buy bentonite at any
drilling supply or pump equiptment dealer. In your case, you should have a
local, free supply of it, because bentonite occurs in the Otay Bentonite
Deposit, in San Diego County. Now all you have to do is find out where it crops
out in your area, get permission from the land owner, and have a bucket and
shovel handy. The easiest way to find bentonite in your area would be to
contact the U.S.D.A. Soil Conservation Survey, your county extension, and ask
for a free copy of the parts 1 and 2 (whichever you part of the county in which
you live) of the county soil survey, and ask them to help you locate
bentonite-rich soils on the map shown in the survey). Once you've done this,
you can do a little drving to find out where the best location is to collect
however much you need.

[San Diego Joe]

"Elaine T" wrote:

> San Diego Joe wrote:
>> "CanadianCowboy" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>>> I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>>> I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>>> I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>>> soil or media to grow in.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions ?
>>
>>
>> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
>> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>
> Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
> litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>
> TIA!

I bought some at the local von's store in clairemont.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.

"We need to make a sacrifice to the pond gods, find me a young virgin... oh,
and bring something to kill"

[George]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Charles wrote:
>
>> I just use dirt. Put some gravel or rocks on top to keep the fish
>> out. It sometimes clouds the water a bit, but then settles.
>>
>> what is sold for potting soil here floats, lots of perlite and wood
>> bark products.
>>
>> I have read that the Schultz product will break pumps, if that is a
>> consideration.
>>
> Break pumps how? If chunks of it get past the prefilter? Enquiring minds
> with this stuff in their ponds need to know!
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

The particles are very small (~ 2 mm). Unless your pump is also very small, I
don't see how it is going to be a problem, especially since it is supposed to be
confined to the plant containers. My pump is a utility pump and will
practically pump sand (though obviously not for an extended period of time).

[Derek Broughton]

George wrote:

> "CanadianCowboy" > wrote in message
> ...

>> since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>> I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>> I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>> I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>> soil or media to grow in.

I plant bare root, where possible. When a medium is needed:
>
> You can use bentonite clay, if you can find a source (drilling supply
> companies are one. Pump supply companies are another).

For the amounts used by the average ponder, 20kg bags of kitty litter
(unscented clay) work well. It _is_ bentonite.

> After you've made up enough to plant your
> plants, mix a little aquarium gravel in with it and simply plant your
> plants in a
> planter, and submerge the whole thing into your pond. It won't affect
> your water clarity if you do it this way.

You could use the gravel; I wouldn't bother. kitty litter does need a good
rinse to get rid of the dust.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

2pods wrote:

>
>>
>> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just
>> be
>> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>>
> .......also remember to take the cat out first ;-)
>
Doh! That's what I forgot...
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

Elaine T wrote:

> San Diego Joe wrote:

>> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just
>> be sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>
> Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
> litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>
Obviously Joe should be able to help you, but for the sake of those who
aren't in San Diego, just look for the cheapest no-name stuff. It's
usually free of the deodorants (I can't say I've ever seen antibacterial
kitty litter - maybe they've started adding it to the stuff I get, and I'd
better check!).
--
derek

[Charles]

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:57:28 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>Charles wrote:
>
>> I just use dirt. Put some gravel or rocks on top to keep the fish
>> out. It sometimes clouds the water a bit, but then settles.
>>
>> what is sold for potting soil here floats, lots of perlite and wood
>> bark products.
>>
>> I have read that the Schultz product will break pumps, if that is a
>> consideration.
>>
>Break pumps how? If chunks of it get past the prefilter? Enquiring
>minds with this stuff in their ponds need to know!


It would go through the strainer I have on my pump. I bought some,
but never used it. I have an ideal system, a friend runs a pond/water
garden store and does my repotting for me.


--
Charles

Does not play well with others.

[Elaine T]

George wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>San Diego Joe wrote:
>>
>>>"CanadianCowboy" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>>>>I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>>>>I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>>>>I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>>>>soil or media to grow in.
>>>>
>>>>Any suggestions ?
>>>
>>>
>>>I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
>>>sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>>
>>Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat litter
>>without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>>
>>TIA!
>>
>>--
>>Elaine T __
>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>
> Pure, unadulterated cat litter is simply betonite. You can buy bentonite at any
> drilling supply or pump equiptment dealer. In your case, you should have a
> local, free supply of it, because bentonite occurs in the Otay Bentonite
> Deposit, in San Diego County. Now all you have to do is find out where it crops
> out in your area, get permission from the land owner, and have a bucket and
> shovel handy. The easiest way to find bentonite in your area would be to
> contact the U.S.D.A. Soil Conservation Survey, your county extension, and ask
> for a free copy of the parts 1 and 2 (whichever you part of the county in which
> you live) of the county soil survey, and ask them to help you locate
> bentonite-rich soils on the map shown in the survey). Once you've done this,
> you can do a little drving to find out where the best location is to collect
> however much you need.
>
>
Whoa...cool! I have some friends on large properties out east, so maybe
they'll have some. Thanks!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

San Diego Joe wrote:
> "Elaine T" wrote:
>
>
>>San Diego Joe wrote:
>>
>>>"CanadianCowboy" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>>>>I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>>>>I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>>>>I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>>>>soil or media to grow in.
>>>>
>>>>Any suggestions ?
>>>
>>>
>>>I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
>>>sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>>
>>Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
>>litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>>
>>TIA!
>
>
> I bought some at the local von's store in clairemont.
>
Vons? Dang. My local one doesn't have plain old litter. Just 20 kinds
of smelly stuff. I know where the Clairemont one is, though. Thanks!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

George wrote:
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Charles wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just use dirt. Put some gravel or rocks on top to keep the fish
>>>out. It sometimes clouds the water a bit, but then settles.
>>>
>>>what is sold for potting soil here floats, lots of perlite and wood
>>>bark products.
>>>
>>>I have read that the Schultz product will break pumps, if that is a
>>>consideration.
>>>
>>
>>Break pumps how? If chunks of it get past the prefilter? Enquiring minds
>>with this stuff in their ponds need to know!
>>
>>--
>>Elaine T __
>>http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>
> The particles are very small (~ 2 mm). Unless your pump is also very small, I
> don't see how it is going to be a problem, especially since it is supposed to be
> confined to the plant containers. My pump is a utility pump and will
> practically pump sand (though obviously not for an extended period of time).
>
>
I've got a Mag-Drive 3, and it's well prefiltered. I've also got it
topped with pebbles in the barrel with the pump. *whew*

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Elaine T wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Charles wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I just use dirt. Put some gravel or rocks on top to keep the fish
>>>> out. It sometimes clouds the water a bit, but then settles.
>>>>
>>>> what is sold for potting soil here floats, lots of perlite and wood
>>>> bark products.
>>>>
>>>> I have read that the Schultz product will break pumps, if that is a
>>>> consideration.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Break pumps how? If chunks of it get past the prefilter? Enquiring
>>> minds with this stuff in their ponds need to know!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Elaine T __
>>> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>>> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>>
>>
>>
>> The particles are very small (~ 2 mm). Unless your pump is also very
>> small, I don't see how it is going to be a problem, especially since
>> it is supposed to be confined to the plant containers. My pump is a
>> utility pump and will practically pump sand (though obviously not for
>> an extended period of time).
>>
> I've got a Mag-Drive 3, and it's well prefiltered. I've also got it
> topped with pebbles in the barrel with the pump. *whew*
>
Boy did that not make sense. I've also got _the aquatic soil_ topped
with pebbles... ROFL

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Elaine T]

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Elaine T wrote:
>
>
>>San Diego Joe wrote:
>
>
>>>I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just
>>>be sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>>
>>Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
>>litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>>
>
> Obviously Joe should be able to help you, but for the sake of those who
> aren't in San Diego, just look for the cheapest no-name stuff. It's
> usually free of the deodorants (I can't say I've ever seen antibacterial
> kitty litter - maybe they've started adding it to the stuff I get, and I'd
> better check!).

All the cheap no-name stuff I've found so far says "not for garden use"
on the back and has an antibacterial in it. Hope yours is different.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[~Roy~]

They sell clumping type cat litter at the local Dollar Store and Big
Lots cxhain stores...its unscented, and 100% pure sodium bentonite
clay in granular form..7 pound jug for a buck..........Hartz Mountain
also makes an unscented clay and its often found in Wal
Marts.....Hartz is also marketed under another name but its the same
stuff, just look for the label to say sodium or western bentonite
clay.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:58:10 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>===<>San Diego Joe wrote:
>===<>> "CanadianCowboy" wrote:
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>>>Hello all,
>===<>>>
>===<>>>since this is my first time introducing live plants to the pond,
>===<>>>I wanted to know what can be used instead of soil for plants to grow in.
>===<>>>I believe the soil will muck up the clarity of the pond.
>===<>>>I was given some plants that love to grow in water but need some kind of
>===<>>>soil or media to grow in.
>===<>>>
>===<>>>Any suggestions ?
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>> I use plain old cat litter. It's very cheap and doesn't float away. Just be
>===<>> sure you get stuff that is just the clay, ie: not deodorizers.
>===<>
>===<>Where do you find it? I'm in San Diego too and have yet to find cat
>===<>litter without deodorizers or antibacterials.
>===<>
>===<>TIA!


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

[~Roy~]

Well if you were in this area I could load you up with all the
bentonite you could carry for free. I just got a heap of it for free
yesterday from a well drilling company as well as a free pond relining
with bentonite.........I have bentonite in powder form of 220 and 300
mesh size, in granular and also pellet form.......a form to cover
virtually all needs.......all in 50# bags. In all reality bentonite is
probably cheaper than dirt would cost. I can buy calcium bentonite
here (southern type) for my foundry use for under $6.00 a 100#
sack......but cacium does ot swell up like sodium bentonite does. ALL
well drillers use sodium bentonite for their slurry mix.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

[Elaine T]

~Roy~ wrote:
> They sell clumping type cat litter at the local Dollar Store and Big
> Lots cxhain stores...its unscented, and 100% pure sodium bentonite
> clay in granular form..7 pound jug for a buck..........Hartz Mountain
> also makes an unscented clay and its often found in Wal
> Marts.....Hartz is also marketed under another name but its the same
> stuff, just look for the label to say sodium or western bentonite
> clay.
>
Lovely! Now I know exactly what to look for. Thanks so much.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

On 28 Apr 2005 09:14:24 -0700, "JamesG" > wrote:

>I have been using potting soil with gravel on the top of the pot to
>prevent soil from escaping. My pond is reasonably clear, I would be
>curious about other better options.

Use strips of weed fabric between the soil and the gravel. Keeps the gravel
from settling into the soil, beside hold the soil from floating away when
putting in pond. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[George]

"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
> Well if you were in this area I could load you up with all the
> bentonite you could carry for free. I just got a heap of it for free
> yesterday from a well drilling company as well as a free pond relining
> with bentonite.........I have bentonite in powder form of 220 and 300
> mesh size, in granular and also pellet form.......a form to cover
> virtually all needs.......all in 50# bags. In all reality bentonite is
> probably cheaper than dirt would cost. I can buy calcium bentonite
> here (southern type) for my foundry use for under $6.00 a 100#
> sack......but cacium does ot swell up like sodium bentonite does. ALL
> well drillers use sodium bentonite for their slurry mix.
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

The pellets work best IMHO because there is no dust and it is easier to handle.

[Charles]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:01:25 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote:

>Well if you were in this area I could load you up with all the
>bentonite you could carry for free. I just got a heap of it for free
>yesterday from a well drilling company as well as a free pond relining
>with bentonite.........I have bentonite in powder form of 220 and 300
>mesh size, in granular and also pellet form.......a form to cover
>virtually all needs.......all in 50# bags. In all reality bentonite is
>probably cheaper than dirt would cost. I can buy calcium bentonite
>here (southern type) for my foundry use for under $6.00 a 100#
>sack......but cacium does ot swell up like sodium bentonite does. ALL
>well drillers use sodium bentonite for their slurry mix.
>
>==============================================
>Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!


you should sell it like these folks do:

http://www.koiclay.com/

http://www.pondpetsusa.com/pond_clay/


--
Charles

Does not play well with others.

[George]

"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:01:25 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote:
>
>>Well if you were in this area I could load you up with all the
>>bentonite you could carry for free. I just got a heap of it for free
>>yesterday from a well drilling company as well as a free pond relining
>>with bentonite.........I have bentonite in powder form of 220 and 300
>>mesh size, in granular and also pellet form.......a form to cover
>>virtually all needs.......all in 50# bags. In all reality bentonite is
>>probably cheaper than dirt would cost. I can buy calcium bentonite
>>here (southern type) for my foundry use for under $6.00 a 100#
>>sack......but cacium does ot swell up like sodium bentonite does. ALL
>>well drillers use sodium bentonite for their slurry mix.
>>
>>==============================================
>>Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>
>
> you should sell it like these folks do:
>
> http://www.koiclay.com/
>
> http://www.pondpetsusa.com/pond_clay/
>
>
> --
> Charles
>
> Does not play well with others.

It is a rip off. I don't care what they say about their painstaking efforts to
find the best bentonite. All commercially available bentonite in the U.S. comes
from Wyoming and Western South Dakota. These people want to sell you 2 lbs of
it for $7.00. You can buy a 100 lbs bag for about the same price, or maybe a
few dollars more at any drilling supply, well supply or pump equipment outlet.
It is like the difference between buying Bayer aspirin or a generic equivalent.
In other words, there is no real difference, except of course, the price.

[~Roy~]

Charles.........not quite true. There is southern bentonite and it is
as its name implies, only found in the south. There is a huge
southern (calcium) bentonite mine about 10 miles down the road from
where I live............its a montmorilliate (sp?) clay, and has
properties similar to sodium bentonite (western) but not exactly the
same.......It takes blends of both calcium and sodium bentonites to
use to make foundry sands........but both are colloidial clays meaning
they swell and expand when exposed to water.....but both bentonite.

I have both kinds of bentonites in my pond, but personally I do not
believe in the hype of koi clay which they say is a special bentopnite
clay....there is only two types western or southern so it has to be a
blend of both or one or the other, probably southern if I was to make
a WAG on it, since the koi clay I saw one time did not swell up
anywhere near as much as western does. They sure do make a lot of
claims as to its so called merits, and its miracle
workings........Such as making koi get better color, reducing parasite
infestations, and eliminateing algae.........With as much bentonite
clays of both types that my pond contains, I should be algae free,
never have a sick fish, my fish should be huge monstors, and the
colors should be bold and bright enough to see at night without a
light.........My fish are just typical koi nothing special even with
all the bentonite my pond contains.....I think koi clay is yet another
myth, to be put up with all those other snake oil remedies on the back
shelf. Maybe it does some things, but I have a hard time to believe
all the miracle stuff its does supposedly. My way of viewing it is
perhaps with all the filtration and aerations etc most perfect koi
ponds have there is an element missing, and koi clay may provide that
missing element to some extent, in some situations but its certainly
not necessary for all koi ponds, nor does it do all that is claimed in
all situations.


On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:10:43 GMT, "George"
> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Charles" > wrote in message
...
>===<>> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:01:25 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote:
>===<>>
>===<>>>Well if you were in this area I could load you up with all the
>===<>>>bentonite you could carry for free. I just got a heap of it for free
>===<>>>yesterday from a well drilling company as well as a free pond relining
>===<>>>with bentonite.........I have bentonite in powder form of 220 and 300
>===<>>>mesh size, in granular and also pellet form.......a form to cover
>===<>>>virtually all needs.......all in 50# bags. In all reality bentonite is
>===<>>>probably cheaper than dirt would cost. I can buy calcium bentonite
>===<>>>here (southern type) for my foundry use for under $6.00 a 100#
>===<>>>sack......but cacium does ot swell up like sodium bentonite does. ALL
>===<>>>well drillers use sodium bentonite for their slurry mix.
>===<>>>
>===<>>>==============================================
>===<>>>Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>> you should sell it like these folks do:
>===<>>
>===<>> http://www.koiclay.com/
>===<>>
>===<>> http://www.pondpetsusa.com/pond_clay/
>===<>>
>===<>>
>===<>> --
>===<>> Charles
>===<>>
>===<>> Does not play well with others.
>===<>
>===<>It is a rip off. I don't care what they say about their painstaking efforts to
>===<>find the best bentonite. All commercially available bentonite in the U.S. comes
>===<>from Wyoming and Western South Dakota. These people want to sell you 2 lbs of
>===<>it for $7.00. You can buy a 100 lbs bag for about the same price, or maybe a
>===<>few dollars more at any drilling supply, well supply or pump equipment outlet.
>===<>It is like the difference between buying Bayer aspirin or a generic equivalent.
>===<>In other words, there is no real difference, except of course, the price.
>===<>


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

[George]

"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
> Charles.........not quite true. There is southern bentonite and it is
> as its name implies, only found in the south. There is a huge
> southern (calcium) bentonite mine about 10 miles down the road from
> where I live............its a montmorilliate (sp?) clay, and has
> properties similar to sodium bentonite (western) but not exactly the
> same.......It takes blends of both calcium and sodium bentonites to
> use to make foundry sands........but both are colloidial clays meaning
> they swell and expand when exposed to water.....but both bentonite.

Calcium bentonite and sodium bentonite contain end-members of the same mineral -
montmorillonite. In other words, there is sodium montmorillonite, calcium
montmorillonite, and varius shades inbetween. Where in the South is this
calcium bentonite coming from?

[~Roy~]

They have been working the mine here for years and years. Its located
in Lowndes county, about 30 miles south of Montgomery. There is also
another mine in Wilcox county which would be west of Lowndes
county.Southern bentonite is calcium type.........



On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:11:55 GMT, "George"
> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
>===<>> Charles.........not quite true. There is southern bentonite and it is
>===<>> as its name implies, only found in the south. There is a huge
>===<>> southern (calcium) bentonite mine about 10 miles down the road from
>===<>> where I live............its a montmorilliate (sp?) clay, and has
>===<>> properties similar to sodium bentonite (western) but not exactly the
>===<>> same.......It takes blends of both calcium and sodium bentonites to
>===<>> use to make foundry sands........but both are colloidial clays meaning
>===<>> they swell and expand when exposed to water.....but both bentonite.
>===<>
>===<>Calcium bentonite and sodium bentonite contain end-members of the same mineral -
>===<>montmorillonite. In other words, there is sodium montmorillonite, calcium
>===<>montmorillonite, and varius shades inbetween. Where in the South is this
>===<>calcium bentonite coming from?
>===<>


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

[George]

"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
> They have been working the mine here for years and years. Its located
> in Lowndes county, about 30 miles south of Montgomery. There is also
> another mine in Wilcox county which would be west of Lowndes
> county.Southern bentonite is calcium type.........
>

Hmmm. I didn't know there was any minable bentonite in Alabama. I wonder how
old the deposit is?

[George]

"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
> They have been working the mine here for years and years. Its located
> in Lowndes county, about 30 miles south of Montgomery. There is also
> another mine in Wilcox county which would be west of Lowndes
> county.Southern bentonite is calcium type.........
>

Apparently, it occurs in the Selma chalk, and is cretaceous aged, resulting from
ash fallout from volanism in the Rocky Mountains. Interesting area.

>
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:11:55 GMT, "George"
> > wrote:
>
>>===<>
>>===<>"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
>>===<>> Charles.........not quite true. There is southern bentonite and it is
>>===<>> as its name implies, only found in the south. There is a huge
>>===<>> southern (calcium) bentonite mine about 10 miles down the road from
>>===<>> where I live............its a montmorilliate (sp?) clay, and has
>>===<>> properties similar to sodium bentonite (western) but not exactly the
>>===<>> same.......It takes blends of both calcium and sodium bentonites to
>>===<>> use to make foundry sands........but both are colloidial clays meaning
>>===<>> they swell and expand when exposed to water.....but both bentonite.
>>===<>
>>===<>Calcium bentonite and sodium bentonite contain end-members of the same
>>mineral -
>>===<>montmorillonite. In other words, there is sodium montmorillonite,
>>calcium
>>===<>montmorillonite, and varius shades inbetween. Where in the South is this
>>===<>calcium bentonite coming from?
>>===<>
>
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

[~Roy~]

Can't answer that, but odds are its OLD! There is a historical site
near the mine operation. Back in Civil War time the confederates used
to mine it there for use in the foundries in Selma, Alabama where
they used to make a lot of the old cannons used back then, which were
made of bronze and cast iron.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:27:17 GMT, "George"
> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"~Roy~" > wrote in message
...
>===<>> They have been working the mine here for years and years. Its located
>===<>> in Lowndes county, about 30 miles south of Montgomery. There is also
>===<>> another mine in Wilcox county which would be west of Lowndes
>===<>> county.Southern bentonite is calcium type.........
>===<>>
>===<>
>===<>Hmmm. I didn't know there was any minable bentonite in Alabama. I wonder how
>===<>old the deposit is?
>===<>


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!