Clown Loach Problem ?

[Justin West]

Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.

After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
seen swimming with a high level of energy.

Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
that they were not there before.

The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
appear normal as well.

To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
apart for this particular fish.

Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin

[Victor Martinez]

Justin West wrote:
> Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
> white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
> that they were not there before.

It's ich, very common with loaches. You need medication asap. Read more
about it here:
http://loaches.com/copper.html
I've had very good success with old-formula maracide.

> To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
> upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
> apart for this particular fish.

You cannot tell the sex of these guys.

> Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
> Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin

Learn more about these fascinating critters in the website above.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Elaine T]

Justin West wrote:
> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>
> After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
> seen swimming with a high level of energy.
>
> Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
> white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
> that they were not there before.
>
> The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
> rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
> appear normal as well.
>
> To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
> upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
> apart for this particular fish.
>
> Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
> Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin
>
It's the start of ich. There are many effective ways to treat it.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml tells you a lot.
The first thing to do is raise the water temperature to 86F and
someone here (is it Bassett?) sensibly recommends you start feeding
generously with high protein food. Bloodworms and blackworms are
relished by clown loaches. You could also try Hikari wafers after dark
to make sure they get their fair share. The high temps will stress if
not kill the parasites and the food will help the fishes immune systems
fight the disease off.

If this doesn't work in 3-4 few days (lifecycle of the parasite at 86F),
spots spread to other fish, or you start seeing a LOT of spots, then
consider medicating the tank. I'd recommend formalin or Protozin.
Copper is risky, toxic, and can build up in your tank. Salt is good, if
your other fish are salt-tolerant.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mary Burns]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Justin West wrote:
>> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>>
>> After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
>> seen swimming with a high level of energy.
>>
>> Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
>> white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
>> that they were not there before.
>>
>> The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
>> rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
>> appear normal as well.
>>
>> To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
>> upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
>> apart for this particular fish.
>>
>> Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
>> Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin
>>
> It's the start of ich. There are many effective ways to treat it.
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml tells you a lot.
> The first thing to do is raise the water temperature to 86F and someone
> here (is it Bassett?) sensibly recommends you start feeding generously
> with high protein food. Bloodworms and blackworms are relished by clown
> loaches. You could also try Hikari wafers after dark to make sure they
> get their fair share. The high temps will stress if not kill the
> parasites and the food will help the fishes immune systems fight the
> disease off.
>
> If this doesn't work in 3-4 few days (lifecycle of the parasite at 86F),
> spots spread to other fish, or you start seeing a LOT of spots, then
> consider medicating the tank. I'd recommend formalin or Protozin. Copper
> is risky, toxic, and can build up in your tank. Salt is good, if your
> other fish are salt-tolerant.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
Live bloodworm is better if you can get it, as it sinks quickly, and your
clowns will love it, and the others too.Platies and clowns interact really
well and will help them feel secure. Treat for ich asap and also provide
something they can sleep in as they love getting inside things or under
plants for a nap.Mary

[sophiefishstuff]

In message >, Elaine T
> writes
>Justin West wrote:
>> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>> After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
>> seen swimming with a high level of energy.
>> Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted
>>some
>> white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
>> that they were not there before.
>> The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
>> rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
>> appear normal as well.
>> To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
>> upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
>> apart for this particular fish.
>> Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
>> Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin
>>
>It's the start of ich. There are many effective ways to treat it.
>http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml tells you a lot.
>The first thing to do is raise the water temperature to 86F and someone
>here (is it Bassett?) sensibly recommends you start feeding generously
>with high protein food. Bloodworms and blackworms are relished by
>clown loaches. You could also try Hikari wafers after dark to make
>sure they get their fair share. The high temps will stress if not kill
>the parasites and the food will help the fishes immune systems fight
>the disease off.
>
>If this doesn't work in 3-4 few days (lifecycle of the parasite at
>86F), spots spread to other fish, or you start seeing a LOT of spots,
>then consider medicating the tank. I'd recommend formalin or Protozin.
>Copper is risky, toxic, and can build up in your tank. Salt is good,
>if your other fish are salt-tolerant.

Elaine...

hoping you don't mind my butting in; I'm puzzled by something on some of
my rasbora.

I've just moved them to a new, bigger, tank. Tank and filter had stood
dry and empty for a couple of months and I cleaned them scrupulously.
Washed out the filter sponge from the old tank in the new tank water,
let the tank sit for a while and then added the rasboras and my dwarf
gourami. No mini-cycle visible. The rasboras however were very stressed
by the move and hung around near the top looking pale and unhappy for a
day or two but have now settled in and look great. HOWEVER. There is
something odd going on with the tips of the dorsal and caudal fins on
some of them. One and possibly a second seem to have eroded tips to the
caudal fins - the one with the definite eroded tips has also got a small
split in the tail at the centre. Another two fish have a small white
spot hanging off the very tip of the dorsal fin and one of these may
also have the same on the very tips of the caudal fin. Could this be
ich? it's in a very odd place, isn't it? flexibacter? columnaris? It
seems to be getting better, and as the temp is 24 C I think that would
be a bit wuick for this stage of ich to "hatch" - I noticed the stuff
for the first time yesterday... I've never had an outbreak of ich, in
fact the only illness I've seen in my fish was a new weatherloach with a
hideous case of finrot, so I'm not too good at recognising stuff.
>

--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

[Elaine T]

sophiefishstuff wrote:
> In message >, Elaine T
> > writes
>
>> Justin West wrote:
>>
>>> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>>> After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
>>> seen swimming with a high level of energy.
>>> Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
>>> white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
>>> that they were not there before.
>>> The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
>>> rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
>>> appear normal as well.
>>> To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
>>> upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
>>> apart for this particular fish.
>>> Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
>>> Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin
>>>
>> It's the start of ich. There are many effective ways to treat it.
>> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml tells you a
>> lot. The first thing to do is raise the water temperature to 86F and
>> someone here (is it Bassett?) sensibly recommends you start feeding
>> generously with high protein food. Bloodworms and blackworms are
>> relished by clown loaches. You could also try Hikari wafers after
>> dark to make sure they get their fair share. The high temps will
>> stress if not kill the parasites and the food will help the fishes
>> immune systems fight the disease off.
>>
>> If this doesn't work in 3-4 few days (lifecycle of the parasite at
>> 86F), spots spread to other fish, or you start seeing a LOT of spots,
>> then consider medicating the tank. I'd recommend formalin or
>> Protozin. Copper is risky, toxic, and can build up in your tank. Salt
>> is good, if your other fish are salt-tolerant.
>
>
> Elaine...
>
> hoping you don't mind my butting in; I'm puzzled by something on some of
> my rasbora.
>
> I've just moved them to a new, bigger, tank. Tank and filter had stood
> dry and empty for a couple of months and I cleaned them scrupulously.
> Washed out the filter sponge from the old tank in the new tank water,
> let the tank sit for a while and then added the rasboras and my dwarf
> gourami. No mini-cycle visible. The rasboras however were very stressed
> by the move and hung around near the top looking pale and unhappy for a
> day or two but have now settled in and look great. HOWEVER. There is
> something odd going on with the tips of the dorsal and caudal fins on
> some of them. One and possibly a second seem to have eroded tips to the
> caudal fins - the one with the definite eroded tips has also got a small
> split in the tail at the centre. Another two fish have a small white
> spot hanging off the very tip of the dorsal fin and one of these may
> also have the same on the very tips of the caudal fin. Could this be
> ich? it's in a very odd place, isn't it? flexibacter? columnaris? It
> seems to be getting better, and as the temp is 24 C I think that would
> be a bit wuick for this stage of ich to "hatch" - I noticed the stuff
> for the first time yesterday... I've never had an outbreak of ich, in
> fact the only illness I've seen in my fish was a new weatherloach with a
> hideous case of finrot, so I'm not too good at recognising stuff.
>
>>
>
Sounds like just a bit of finrot to me. Rasboras seem very susceptible
to it when stressed. You've unintentionally slightly stressed the fish
by putting them in a new environment. There also may have been a light
mini cycle that your test kits didn't quite measure but the fish
noticed. I suspect the whitish spots are clumps of bacteria rather than
ich.

Since they're already getting better, I wouldn't worry much. Water
conditions are improving as the filter adapts and the fish are settling
in to their new home. Feed them well, watch for continued improvement,
and keep monitoring water conditions just in case.

If the whitish patches should start to spread, see if you can find or
make a medicted food with oxytetracycline or terramycin and feed that
for 10 days.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Gill Passman]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
...
> Justin West wrote:
> > Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
> >
> > After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
> > seen swimming with a high level of energy.
> >
> > Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
> > white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
> > that they were not there before.
> >
> > The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
> > rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
> > appear normal as well.
> >
> > To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
> > upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
> > apart for this particular fish.
> >
> > Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
> > Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin
> >
> It's the start of ich. There are many effective ways to treat it.
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml tells you a lot.
> The first thing to do is raise the water temperature to 86F and
> someone here (is it Bassett?) sensibly recommends you start feeding
> generously with high protein food. Bloodworms and blackworms are
> relished by clown loaches. You could also try Hikari wafers after dark
> to make sure they get their fair share. The high temps will stress if
> not kill the parasites and the food will help the fishes immune systems
> fight the disease off.
>
> If this doesn't work in 3-4 few days (lifecycle of the parasite at 86F),
> spots spread to other fish, or you start seeing a LOT of spots, then
> consider medicating the tank. I'd recommend formalin or Protozin.
> Copper is risky, toxic, and can build up in your tank. Salt is good, if
> your other fish are salt-tolerant.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

I fed my Clowns a high protein diet (with no scientific basis I admit) - the
reason being I figured that the better the diet the better the Clowns would
be able to resist the side effects of this parasite. I don't know whether I
was right but I now have Ich free Clowns....who looked and behaved as if
they were healthy throughout.

The only thing that I would add is if one treatment doesn't work, wait for
the medication to go out the water and try another. High temps and 1/2 dose
of salt seemed to help as well but I did lose some other fish to this. Make
sure that the water is oxygenated when you raise the temp - drop any CO2
unit and add an air brick.....

It took me 4 weeks but tenacity won the day....

Gill

[sophiefishstuff]

In message >, Elaine T
> writes
>sophiefishstuff wrote:
>> In message >, Elaine T
> writes
>>
>>> Justin West wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>>>> After just a half hour they seemed to settle in happily and could be
>>>> seen swimming with a high level of energy.
>>>> Recently (as I hadn't really noticed upon purchase) I've spotted some
>>>> white spots on the tail of one of them. I can't say with any certainty
>>>> that they were not there before.
>>>> The fish has not been spotted acting abnormal. (no rubbing against
>>>> rocks, gasping, etc...) All other fish (5 platties, and 3 sword tails)
>>>> appear normal as well.
>>>> To be perfectly honest I purchased the 2 clown fish in ignorance and
>>>> upon suggestion of a co-worker. So I can not even tell the sexies
>>>> apart for this particular fish.
>>>> Is this normal for clown fish, or the beginnings of a disease.
>>>> Comments welcomed and appreciated. Thanks! Justin
>>>>
>>> It's the start of ich. There are many effective ways to treat it.
>>> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml tells you a
>>>lot. The first thing to do is raise the water temperature to 86F and
>>>someone here (is it Bassett?) sensibly recommends you start feeding
>>>generously with high protein food. Bloodworms and blackworms are
>>>relished by clown loaches. You could also try Hikari wafers after
>>>dark to make sure they get their fair share. The high temps will
>>>stress if not kill the parasites and the food will help the fishes
>>>immune systems fight the disease off.
>>>
>>> If this doesn't work in 3-4 few days (lifecycle of the parasite at
>>>86F), spots spread to other fish, or you start seeing a LOT of spots,
>>>then consider medicating the tank. I'd recommend formalin or
>>>Protozin. Copper is risky, toxic, and can build up in your tank. Salt
>>>is good, if your other fish are salt-tolerant.
>> Elaine...
>> hoping you don't mind my butting in; I'm puzzled by something on
>>some of my rasbora.
>> I've just moved them to a new, bigger, tank. Tank and filter had
>>stood dry and empty for a couple of months and I cleaned them
>>scrupulously. Washed out the filter sponge from the old tank in the
>>new tank water, let the tank sit for a while and then added the
>>rasboras and my dwarf gourami. No mini-cycle visible. The rasboras
>>however were very stressed by the move and hung around near the top
>>looking pale and unhappy for a day or two but have now settled in and
>>look great. HOWEVER. There is something odd going on with the tips of
>>the dorsal and caudal fins on some of them. One and possibly a second
>>seem to have eroded tips to the caudal fins - the one with the
>>definite eroded tips has also got a small split in the tail at the
>>centre. Another two fish have a small white spot hanging off the very
>>tip of the dorsal fin and one of these may also have the same on the
>>very tips of the caudal fin. Could this be ich? it's in a very odd
>>place, isn't it? flexibacter? columnaris? It seems to be getting
>>better, and as the temp is 24 C I think that would be a bit wuick for
>>this stage of ich to "hatch" - I noticed the stuff for the first time
>>yesterday... I've never had an outbreak of ich, in fact the only
>>illness I've seen in my fish was a new weatherloach with a hideous
>>case of finrot, so I'm not too good at recognising stuff.
>>
>>>
>>
>Sounds like just a bit of finrot to me. Rasboras seem very susceptible
>to it when stressed. You've unintentionally slightly stressed the fish
>by putting them in a new environment. There also may have been a light
>mini cycle that your test kits didn't quite measure but the fish
>noticed. I suspect the whitish spots are clumps of bacteria rather
>than ich.
>
>Since they're already getting better, I wouldn't worry much. Water
>conditions are improving as the filter adapts and the fish are settling
>in to their new home. Feed them well, watch for continued improvement,
>and keep monitoring water conditions just in case.
>
>If the whitish patches should start to spread, see if you can find or
>make a medicted food with oxytetracycline or terramycin and feed that
>for 10 days.

Thank you, Elaine! I hadn't realised rasboras were prone to finrot; I
know weather-loaches are... I'll keep really on top of the water-changes
for the next week or so - the last couple of times I had damaged fish
(one weather-loach with a split fin and one kuhli with serious damage to
its skin) pristine water sorted them out a treat.

In my paranoia - largely for the kuhlis, one of whom is a species you
almost never see in aquariums, and I know loaches & ich don't mix - I
have already started a course of protozin, and I suppose that it won't
hurt anyone to complete the course. I can't take the kuhlis back to the
original tank as it's quarantining five miniscule boia striatas and two
female dwarf gouramis, hooray! (and boo, I suppose, for not having a
hospital tank available for a couple of weeks).

thanks again, I appreciate it.
--
sophie

www.freewebs.com/fishstuff
(under construction. ish.)

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Justin West wrote:

> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.

Clowns are very social animals and should be kept in groups of at least
6, to show the typical behaviour and to reduce stress. Of course you
should wait for the current disease to cure before adding new fish to
the tank.

And congratulations for selecting one of the most interesting and
charming fish species for your tank.

[Dick]

On Mon, 09 May 2005 10:38:33 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> wrote:

>Justin West wrote:
>
>> Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>
>Clowns are very social animals and should be kept in groups of at least
>6, to show the typical behaviour and to reduce stress. Of course you
>should wait for the current disease to cure before adding new fish to
>the tank.
>
>And congratulations for selecting one of the most interesting and
>charming fish species for your tank.

I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
stated.

dick

[Elaine T]

Dick wrote:
> On Mon, 09 May 2005 10:38:33 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Justin West wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>>
>>Clowns are very social animals and should be kept in groups of at least
>>6, to show the typical behaviour and to reduce stress. Of course you
>>should wait for the current disease to cure before adding new fish to
>>the tank.
>>
>>And congratulations for selecting one of the most interesting and
>>charming fish species for your tank.
>
>
> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
> I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
> 5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
> appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
> gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
> stated.
>
> dick

I've also had good luck with trios of clowns, and had a boyfriend who
kept a pair. Our groups of two and three were active and healthy. The
pair liked to wedge themselves into the same hole in a piece of
driftwood and nap together. My trio would do the typical "dead loach"
nap as a pile of fish laying on each other. A lone clown IS generally a
problem, and is almost certain not to thrive.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Simon]

We have 2 clown loaches, getting on 5 inches now... i never knew they
prefered lots of their own company.. will have to get some more!

Our loaches have made friends with our polypterus palmas. When they were
younger he tried to eat them (actually had a whole one in his mouth but spat
it out) but now they follow him around the tank, rest on his back and sleep
with him!


"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. ..
> Dick wrote:
>> On Mon, 09 May 2005 10:38:33 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Justin West wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>>>
>>>Clowns are very social animals and should be kept in groups of at least
>>>6, to show the typical behaviour and to reduce stress. Of course you
>>>should wait for the current disease to cure before adding new fish to
>>>the tank.
>>>
>>>And congratulations for selecting one of the most interesting and
>>>charming fish species for your tank.
>>
>>
>> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
>> I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
>> 5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
>> appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
>> gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
>> stated.
>>
>> dick
>
> I've also had good luck with trios of clowns, and had a boyfriend who kept
> a pair. Our groups of two and three were active and healthy. The pair
> liked to wedge themselves into the same hole in a piece of driftwood and
> nap together. My trio would do the typical "dead loach" nap as a pile of
> fish laying on each other. A lone clown IS generally a problem, and is
> almost certain not to thrive.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

"Simon" > wrote in message
...
> We have 2 clown loaches, getting on 5 inches now... i never knew they
> prefered lots of their own company.. will have to get some more!
>
> Our loaches have made friends with our polypterus palmas. When they were
> younger he tried to eat them (actually had a whole one in his mouth but
spat
> it out) but now they follow him around the tank, rest on his back and
sleep
> with him!
>
>
> "Elaine T" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Dick wrote:
> >> On Mon, 09 May 2005 10:38:33 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Justin West wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
> >>>
> >>>Clowns are very social animals and should be kept in groups of at least
> >>>6, to show the typical behaviour and to reduce stress. Of course you
> >>>should wait for the current disease to cure before adding new fish to
> >>>the tank.
> >>>
> >>>And congratulations for selecting one of the most interesting and
> >>>charming fish species for your tank.
> >>
> >>
> >> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
> >> I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
> >> 5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
> >> appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
> >> gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
> >> stated.
> >>
> >> dick
> >
> > I've also had good luck with trios of clowns, and had a boyfriend who
kept
> > a pair. Our groups of two and three were active and healthy. The pair
> > liked to wedge themselves into the same hole in a piece of driftwood and
> > nap together. My trio would do the typical "dead loach" nap as a pile
of
> > fish laying on each other. A lone clown IS generally a problem, and is
> > almost certain not to thrive.
> >
> > --
> > Elaine T __
> > http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> > rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>

I have 6 Clown Loaches of varying sizes. They form a brilliant social group.
I have a number of fish and have never observed such positive social
behaviour as I do with the Clowns....right now my 4 smaller ones are in the
"big Clown heap" in the gravel...with my two larger ones watching over.

I started off with 3 and lost one to what I assume was a parasite (a peril
of keeping wild bred fish). I added my two larger Clowns who came down quite
quickly with Ich - a condition inherint from the shop I bought
them...treated them very quickly and then added a further two. After a
stressful situation (plus some infected water added by me - ouch) the 4
smaller Clowns succumbed to Ich in reaction to a situation with the Alpha
Clown....the predicament of one of their fellow fish mattered to them which
makes them great without anything else. Everyone is now fine....

IMO the more Clowns the better - the social interaction, the entertainment
value, the ability for them to dance out of what appears to be sheer joy in
eachothers company, the way they really seem to like eachother makes a
unique situation in a Community Tank (or other) where most of the time our
fish seem to be battling, the way they feed from my hand....it would be
cruel to keep one on its own......my decision when treating the Ich was that
it would be cruel to separate the infected fish from their companions as
they form such an important social group (for one another)...and the stress
of separation would be far greater than the risk to the other fish.

Always keep more than one....give them plenty of space, be prepared to move
them into a bigger tank if necessary....but IMO my tank would be an empty
place without them....

I love my Clowns....

Gill

[Dick]

On Mon, 09 May 2005 19:14:58 GMT, "Simon"
> wrote:

>We have 2 clown loaches, getting on 5 inches now... i never knew they
>prefered lots of their own company.. will have to get some more!
>
>Our loaches have made friends with our polypterus palmas. When they were
>younger he tried to eat them (actually had a whole one in his mouth but spat
>it out) but now they follow him around the tank, rest on his back and sleep
>with him!
>
>
>"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Dick wrote:
>>> On Mon, 09 May 2005 10:38:33 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Justin West wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Recently purchased 2 clown loaches and introduced them to my tank.
>>>>
>>>>Clowns are very social animals and should be kept in groups of at least
>>>>6, to show the typical behaviour and to reduce stress. Of course you
>>>>should wait for the current disease to cure before adding new fish to
>>>>the tank.
>>>>
>>>>And congratulations for selecting one of the most interesting and
>>>>charming fish species for your tank.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
>>> I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
>>> 5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
>>> appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
>>> gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
>>> stated.
>>>
>>> dick
>>
>> I've also had good luck with trios of clowns, and had a boyfriend who kept
>> a pair. Our groups of two and three were active and healthy. The pair
>> liked to wedge themselves into the same hole in a piece of driftwood and
>> nap together. My trio would do the typical "dead loach" nap as a pile of
>> fish laying on each other. A lone clown IS generally a problem, and is
>> almost certain not to thrive.
>>
>> --
>> Elaine T __
>> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
>> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
>

Another social fish is the Siamese Algae Eater. My SAEs and Clowns
often join in a schoal either rushing up and down in one corner or
side to side. Actually this turns into a community activity as often
as not.

The SAEs usually gather together and will pick an Annubia to occupy,
each taking a separate leaf to rest on. Truly amazing to see 6 to 8
of these 5 inch critters resting gently so close together. Right now
I see 4 side by side on the gravel not yet up and about after a
night's sleep.

dick

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Dick wrote:


> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
> I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
> 5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
> appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
> gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
> stated.

And do they also show the typical parallel swimming when searching the
bottom for food?

[Dick]

On Tue, 17 May 2005 10:35:29 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>
>
>> I have 2 Clowns in a 10 gallon tank with 5 live bearers and one SAE.
>> I have 3 Clowns in a 29 gallon tank, a community tank and then I have
>> 5 Clowns in a 75 gallon tank. I see no difference in their behavior,
>> appetites nor health. For some reason the largest are in the 29
>> gallon tank. I think the need for large groups of Clowns is over
>> stated.
>
>And do they also show the typical parallel swimming when searching the
>bottom for food?

I have yet to see anything typical about Clown Loaches swimming or
laying about. I see no more irregular behavior in the 10 than in a 29
or 75 gallon tank. Right now, shortly after the lights came on, I can
see all 3 tanks and on 2 of my 11 clowns. I don't know why it bothers
you that 2 Clowns can live in a 10 gallon tank without something
different in their behavior. I just want to let those that are "tank
impaired" that they too can enjoy these rascals.

dick