Algae growing on Golden Orf

[John Patmore]

Hi all,

Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish? I've put three pictures
on my webspace of one of my Golden Orfs with just this problem down both
sides of the fish, and the fins. Any assistance in getting rid of this or
at least controlling it would be much appreciated.

http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_1.jpg
http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_2.jpg
http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_3.jpg
and a few other relevant photos if you want to browse the folder.

The pond is approximately 2.5m x 1.6m x 0.8m deep and has been
established for several years. There are currently about 16 largish fish:
2 golden orf, 2 ghost koi, some crusian carp and rudd, and a few
goldfish. There are six airstones in the pond, as well as the
fountain/waterfall.

Last year during the heat of summer, the orf jumped out of the pond
(probably chasing flies) and flapped its way over the edge of the wall at
the end of the pond onto the path below. It was probably out of the water
for about 20 to 30 minutes and was virtually dead when we found it purely
by chance. My daughter held it in the water for over 2 hours flushing
water through the gills before it was strong enough to swim away. We
didn't see it for a couple of days, and it took several weeks to regain
full mobility.

Anyway, after winter we noticed that it had a coating of algae, hence I'm
here requesting advice. I don't know if the trauma has had an effect, but
the fish appears perfectly healthy otherwise. All other fish in the pond
seem to be clean.

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >

[Elaine T]

John Patmore wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish? I've put three pictures
> on my webspace of one of my Golden Orfs with just this problem down both
> sides of the fish, and the fins. Any assistance in getting rid of this or
> at least controlling it would be much appreciated.
>
> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_1.jpg
> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_2.jpg
> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_3.jpg
> and a few other relevant photos if you want to browse the folder.
>
> The pond is approximately 2.5m x 1.6m x 0.8m deep and has been
> established for several years. There are currently about 16 largish fish:
> 2 golden orf, 2 ghost koi, some crusian carp and rudd, and a few
> goldfish. There are six airstones in the pond, as well as the
> fountain/waterfall.
>
> Last year during the heat of summer, the orf jumped out of the pond
> (probably chasing flies) and flapped its way over the edge of the wall at
> the end of the pond onto the path below. It was probably out of the water
> for about 20 to 30 minutes and was virtually dead when we found it purely
> by chance. My daughter held it in the water for over 2 hours flushing
> water through the gills before it was strong enough to swim away. We
> didn't see it for a couple of days, and it took several weeks to regain
> full mobility.
>
> Anyway, after winter we noticed that it had a coating of algae, hence I'm
> here requesting advice. I don't know if the trauma has had an effect, but
> the fish appears perfectly healthy otherwise. All other fish in the pond
> seem to be clean.
>
I can think of two things. Velvet, or real algae growing on a fungal
infection. Velvet will be a smooth coating of brownish-green often on
the back of the fish. If you look closely, you can see speckling from
the tiny parasites. Use a formalin/malachite ich medicine for the
velvet in a holding tank or kiddie pool, and keep the tank or pool
darkened since the parasite is partly photosynthetic (thus the
brownish/green color).

The second possibility is a true fungus infection. In this case, the
algae will be growing on fuzz, and the infection will look like green
hair or cotton. It will be the true green of algae, not the
brownish/gold/green of velvet. That can be treated by either using a
proprietary fungus medicine in a holding tank, or catching the fish and
dabbing malachite green on the affected areas. The fungus will fall off
in a couple of hours after the malachite treatment, but likely regrow.
You have to keep treating daily or every second day until it's gone, so
having the fish in a holding tank or kiddie pool is helpful.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Derek Benson]

On Fri, 06 May 2005 20:08:03 GMT, Elaine T >
wrote:

>John Patmore wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish? I've put three pictures
>> on my webspace of one of my Golden Orfs with just this problem down both
>> sides of the fish, and the fins. Any assistance in getting rid of this or
>> at least controlling it would be much appreciated.
>>
>> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_1.jpg
>> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_2.jpg
>> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_3.jpg
>> and a few other relevant photos if you want to browse the folder.

>I can think of two things. Velvet, or real algae growing on a fungal
>infection. Velvet will be a smooth coating of brownish-green often on
>the back of the fish. If you look closely, you can see speckling from
>the tiny parasites. Use a formalin/malachite ich medicine for the
>velvet in a holding tank or kiddie pool, and keep the tank or pool
>darkened since the parasite is partly photosynthetic (thus the
>brownish/green color).
>
>The second possibility is a true fungus infection. In this case, the
>algae will be growing on fuzz, and the infection will look like green
>hair or cotton. It will be the true green of algae, not the
>brownish/gold/green of velvet. That can be treated by either using a
>proprietary fungus medicine in a holding tank, or catching the fish and
>dabbing malachite green on the affected areas. The fungus will fall off
>in a couple of hours after the malachite treatment, but likely regrow.
>You have to keep treating daily or every second day until it's gone, so
>having the fish in a holding tank or kiddie pool is helpful.

I'm curious as to whether you've looked at the photos. It looks
nothing like velvet should look on fish, if you're talking about the
same velvet we get on tropicals; it doesn't look like algae growing on
fungus either. There are dozens and dozens of green spots or patches
which look like algae, growing various places on the fish.

-Derek

[Derek Benson]

On Fri, 6 May 2005 18:40:21 +0100, John Patmore
> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish? I've put three pictures
>on my webspace of one of my Golden Orfs with just this problem down both
>sides of the fish, and the fins. Any assistance in getting rid of this or
>at least controlling it would be much appreciated.
>
>http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_1.jpg
>http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_2.jpg
>http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_3.jpg
>and a few other relevant photos if you want to browse the folder.
>
>The pond is approximately 2.5m x 1.6m x 0.8m deep and has been
>established for several years. There are currently about 16 largish fish:
>2 golden orf, 2 ghost koi, some crusian carp and rudd, and a few
>goldfish. There are six airstones in the pond, as well as the
>fountain/waterfall.
>
>Last year during the heat of summer, the orf jumped out of the pond
>(probably chasing flies) and flapped its way over the edge of the wall at
>the end of the pond onto the path below. It was probably out of the water
>for about 20 to 30 minutes and was virtually dead when we found it purely
>by chance. My daughter held it in the water for over 2 hours flushing
>water through the gills before it was strong enough to swim away. We
>didn't see it for a couple of days, and it took several weeks to regain
>full mobility.
>
>Anyway, after winter we noticed that it had a coating of algae, hence I'm
>here requesting advice. I don't know if the trauma has had an effect, but
>the fish appears perfectly healthy otherwise. All other fish in the pond
>seem to be clean.

Pure speculation on my part: The fish was out of the water rolling
around in the dirt and sand, decimating its slime coat and possibly
damaging its scales/skin. The slime coat hasn't come back and algae
has started growing on areas of the fish unprotected, or where damage
has occurred.

There are preparations available in tropical fish stores which will
kill algae. I've used one of these once in an aquarium on the
recommendation of a friend, and it did kill algae, with no adverse
effects on other plants or fish that we could see. You probably don't
want to put algae killer in your pond, but the fish could be placed
alone in an aquarium with the stuff and maybe it would help. If you
see any problems with the fish after placing it in such a bath, move
it out right away back to the pond.

-Derek

[NetMax]

"John Patmore" > wrote
in message ...
> Hi all,
>
> Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish? I've put three
> pictures
> on my webspace of one of my Golden Orfs with just this problem down
> both
> sides of the fish, and the fins. Any assistance in getting rid of this
> or
> at least controlling it would be much appreciated.
>
> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_1.jpg
> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_2.jpg
> http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_3.jpg
> and a few other relevant photos if you want to browse the folder.
>
> The pond is approximately 2.5m x 1.6m x 0.8m deep and has been
> established for several years. There are currently about 16 largish
> fish:
> 2 golden orf, 2 ghost koi, some crusian carp and rudd, and a few
> goldfish. There are six airstones in the pond, as well as the
> fountain/waterfall.
>
> Last year during the heat of summer, the orf jumped out of the pond
> (probably chasing flies) and flapped its way over the edge of the wall
> at
> the end of the pond onto the path below. It was probably out of the
> water
> for about 20 to 30 minutes and was virtually dead when we found it
> purely
> by chance. My daughter held it in the water for over 2 hours flushing
> water through the gills before it was strong enough to swim away. We
> didn't see it for a couple of days, and it took several weeks to regain
> full mobility.
>
> Anyway, after winter we noticed that it had a coating of algae, hence
> I'm
> here requesting advice. I don't know if the trauma has had an effect,
> but
> the fish appears perfectly healthy otherwise. All other fish in the
> pond
> seem to be clean.
>
> --
> Regards,
> John Patmore - >

What I would do is brine bath. Prepare a saline solution and have a
large soft sponge on hand. Put the fish into a small container of normal
water. Gently raise the fish partly out of the water and rub the
sal****er-soaked sponge over the fish (in the direction of the scales,
towards the caudal fin). You might need to repeat the process a few
times over a week. This is a non-specific remedy for general problems
like this. Google the archives for 'salt dip' treatments.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Elaine T]

Derek Benson wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 20:08:03 GMT, Elaine T >
> wrote:
>
>
>>John Patmore wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish? I've put three pictures
>>>on my webspace of one of my Golden Orfs with just this problem down both
>>>sides of the fish, and the fins. Any assistance in getting rid of this or
>>>at least controlling it would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>>http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_1.jpg
>>>http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_2.jpg
>>>http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_3.jpg
>>>and a few other relevant photos if you want to browse the folder.
>
>
>>I can think of two things. Velvet, or real algae growing on a fungal
>>infection. Velvet will be a smooth coating of brownish-green often on
>>the back of the fish. If you look closely, you can see speckling from
>>the tiny parasites. Use a formalin/malachite ich medicine for the
>>velvet in a holding tank or kiddie pool, and keep the tank or pool
>>darkened since the parasite is partly photosynthetic (thus the
>>brownish/green color).
>>
>>The second possibility is a true fungus infection. In this case, the
>>algae will be growing on fuzz, and the infection will look like green
>>hair or cotton. It will be the true green of algae, not the
>>brownish/gold/green of velvet. That can be treated by either using a
>>proprietary fungus medicine in a holding tank, or catching the fish and
>>dabbing malachite green on the affected areas. The fungus will fall off
>>in a couple of hours after the malachite treatment, but likely regrow.
>>You have to keep treating daily or every second day until it's gone, so
>>having the fish in a holding tank or kiddie pool is helpful.
>
>
> I'm curious as to whether you've looked at the photos. It looks
> nothing like velvet should look on fish, if you're talking about the
> same velvet we get on tropicals; it doesn't look like algae growing on
> fungus either. There are dozens and dozens of green spots or patches
> which look like algae, growing various places on the fish.
>
> -Derek

They didn't load at the time so I had to guess. You're right - it's not
velvet. I think algae on fungus now that I've seen them. None of the
disease articles or books I've read mentions algae growing directly on
fish, even in ponds. OTOH, algae growing on fungus is quite common in
pond fish. Fungal infections don't always look fuzzy.

NetMax's strong salt dip suggestion is a good one and will probably do
the trick. http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/salt.htm If that
doesn't help, I'd go to malachite green dips.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[John Patmore]

In article >, you say...
> Has anyone ever heard of algae growing on a fish?

Thanks to all interested parties.
Discussion continued on rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >

[John Patmore]

In article >, Elaine T
> says...
> NetMax's strong salt dip suggestion is a good one and will probably do
> the trick. http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/salt.htm If that
> doesn't help, I'd go to malachite green dips.

Will do. Many thanks to you all for your interest and assistance.

It's difficult to get a decent photo 'cos I don't want to stress the fish
too much and sky reflections also get in the way.

I've taken a few more detailed photographs today and posted them here
(approx 300K each):
http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_4.jpg
http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_5.jpg
http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_6.jpg
http://www.jpatmore.plus.com/orf/flipper_7.jpg

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >

[John Patmore]

In article >, Derek Benson
> says...
> Pure speculation on my part: The fish was out of the water rolling
> around in the dirt and sand, decimating its slime coat and possibly
> damaging its scales/skin. The slime coat hasn't come back and algae
> has started growing on areas of the fish unprotected, or where damage
> has occurred.

That is a distinct possiblity. It looks like there may be damage on the
edges of the scales - there are lots of small whitish spots visible
around the face and scales in photo flipper_7. Is this the notorious Ich?
I'm hopefull that it isn't since it only appears to be around the edges
of the scales and doesn't look as prominant as in other photos I've seen.
<http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html> looks good.

I'll try wiping him down with salt solution and cotton wool followed by
some Aloe Vera "Stress Coat" before I attempt anything else.

I'm not too sure about my expertise using a salt dip - surely this would
cause reverse osmosis in freshwater fish? I'll read up a bit.

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >

[Elaine T]

John Patmore wrote:
> In article >, Derek Benson
> > says...
>
>>Pure speculation on my part: The fish was out of the water rolling
>>around in the dirt and sand, decimating its slime coat and possibly
>>damaging its scales/skin. The slime coat hasn't come back and algae
>>has started growing on areas of the fish unprotected, or where damage
>>has occurred.
>
>
> That is a distinct possiblity. It looks like there may be damage on the
> edges of the scales - there are lots of small whitish spots visible
> around the face and scales in photo flipper_7. Is this the notorious Ich?
> I'm hopefull that it isn't since it only appears to be around the edges
> of the scales and doesn't look as prominant as in other photos I've seen.
> <http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html> looks good.
>
> I'll try wiping him down with salt solution and cotton wool followed by
> some Aloe Vera "Stress Coat" before I attempt anything else.
>
> I'm not too sure about my expertise using a salt dip - surely this would
> cause reverse osmosis in freshwater fish? I'll read up a bit.
>
Poor guy. He's having a hard time of it. Is that reddening at the fin
bases normal coloration for this fish? If not, he's got some bacterial
infection going along with the fungus. Strong salt kills FW bacteria
too, so the salt will help that.

The salt dip does stress the fish with reverse osmosis, but it stresses
tiny things with a lot of surface area like bacteria and fungi faster
and much more severely. Carp are pretty salt tolerant too. NetMax's
sponging down with saline is a very sensible and gentle way to do the
salt treatment.

Another option you could try is something like pond Fungus Eliminator in
a kiddy pool or some sort of quarantine. It contains an antibiotic as
well as the antifungal, so you wouldn't want to treat the whole pond. I
think the salt is better, though.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Derek Benson]

On Sun, 8 May 2005 21:58:21 +0100, John Patmore
> wrote:

>In article >, Derek Benson
> says...
>> Pure speculation on my part: The fish was out of the water rolling
>> around in the dirt and sand, decimating its slime coat and possibly
>> damaging its scales/skin. The slime coat hasn't come back and algae
>> has started growing on areas of the fish unprotected, or where damage
>> has occurred.
>
>That is a distinct possiblity. It looks like there may be damage on the
>edges of the scales - there are lots of small whitish spots visible
>around the face and scales in photo flipper_7. Is this the notorious Ich?
>I'm hopefull that it isn't since it only appears to be around the edges
>of the scales and doesn't look as prominant as in other photos I've seen.
><http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html> looks good.
>
>I'll try wiping him down with salt solution and cotton wool followed by
>some Aloe Vera "Stress Coat" before I attempt anything else.
>
>I'm not too sure about my expertise using a salt dip - surely this would
>cause reverse osmosis in freshwater fish? I'll read up a bit.

The white spots do not look like Ich to me. If the photo 7 is maybe 20
times (?) as large as the actual fish, the spots are too small; they
are also too uniform: along the edge of each individual scale.

-Derek

[John Patmore]

In article >, Derek Benson
> says...
> The white spots do not look like Ich to me. If the photo 7 is maybe 20
> times (?) as large as the actual fish, the spots are too small; they
> are also too uniform: along the edge of each individual scale.

Excellent news. Thanks for that.

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >

[John Patmore]

In article >, Elaine T
> says...
> Poor guy. He's having a hard time of it.

All together now... AAhhh!
I need a hug.

> Is that reddening at the fin bases normal coloration for this fish?

I'm not entirely sure, but I think so. Best pictures I could find on the
web are at <http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/fish/ans/graphics/goldenorfe.gif> and
<http://makeashorterlink.com/?C43E25B0B>

> The salt dip does stress the fish with reverse osmosis, but it stresses
> tiny things with a lot of surface area like bacteria and fungi faster
> and much more severely. Carp are pretty salt tolerant too. NetMax's
> sponging down with saline is a very sensible and gentle way to do the
> salt treatment.

Definately the option I'll try.

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >

[John Cuthbertson]

Hi there,

On Sun, 08 May 2005 21:58:21 +0100, John Patmore wrote:

> That is a distinct possiblity. It looks like there may be damage on the
> edges of the scales - there are lots of small whitish spots visible
> around the face and scales in photo flipper_7. Is this the notorious Ich?
> I'm hopefull that it isn't since it only appears to be around the edges
> of the scales and doesn't look as prominant as in other photos I've seen.
> <http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html> looks good.
>
> I'll try wiping him down with salt solution and cotton wool followed by
> some Aloe Vera "Stress Coat" before I attempt anything else.
>
> I'm not too sure about my expertise using a salt dip - surely this would
> cause reverse osmosis in freshwater fish? I'll read up a bit.

I think the small white raised spots are "tubercules" (my spelling might
be incorrect). A lot of male carp (rudd, roach, orfe, crucian, shiner etc)
get them as a sign of readiness to breed. Large pond fish will get them in
the spring when the water starts to warm up and the insect larvae
population starts to bloom.

John Cuthbertson

[John Patmore]

In article >, NetMax
> says...
> What I would do is brine bath. Prepare a saline solution and have a
> large soft sponge on hand.

Well, I've done the business, and the fins have cleaned up really well.
There's still a little stubborn staining on the body near the tail, and
no doubt that'll go after a couple more treatments. The fish hardly
struggled at all during the treatment. Thank you all for your
suggestions.

--
Regards,
John Patmore - >