First death

[teri]

Of course it was bound to happen. Elaine even warned me to brace
myself that my blue mickey mouse platy might not make it, but she had
been doing fine, eating and swimming, just a little less active than
the others. She sure was pretty though and her fins were nice,
although she wasn't really growing quite like the others either. No
signs of trouble when I went to work, and she was dead when I got
home. I am still in the process of cycling my three gallon tank. It
has been 4 1/2 weeks since getting the fish. For the last week or so
the levels have remained basically the same : Ammonia 3 (that has
never changed since I started testing the water after the first week).
Nitrite 0.25 - 0.5. Nitrate mostly 10 - 20 (yesterday more like 30
before water change). I had been doing the every day water changes,
then to every two days then evey three because there was no noticable
difference in the levels I tested. I haven't been putting anything in
the water (Ammo-Lock) other than the chloramine/chlorine stuff.
Should I be doing anything different?
Teri

[Elaine T]

teri wrote:
> Of course it was bound to happen. Elaine even warned me to brace
> myself that my blue mickey mouse platy might not make it, but she had
> been doing fine, eating and swimming, just a little less active than
> the others. She sure was pretty though and her fins were nice,
> although she wasn't really growing quite like the others either. No
> signs of trouble when I went to work, and she was dead when I got
> home. I am still in the process of cycling my three gallon tank. It
> has been 4 1/2 weeks since getting the fish. For the last week or so
> the levels have remained basically the same : Ammonia 3 (that has
> never changed since I started testing the water after the first week).
> Nitrite 0.25 - 0.5. Nitrate mostly 10 - 20 (yesterday more like 30
> before water change). I had been doing the every day water changes,
> then to every two days then evey three because there was no noticable
> difference in the levels I tested. I haven't been putting anything in
> the water (Ammo-Lock) other than the chloramine/chlorine stuff.
> Should I be doing anything different?
> Teri

Sorry about your platy. It sucks to lose your first fish.

I'm puzzled by your ammonia levels. First, it should be gone. Second
if your pH is above 7, all your fish would be quite sick in that much
ammonia. Are you sure you're using a salicylate kit? It shold change
color from yellow to green, not clear to yellow-orange. If you're not,
you're measuring the ammo-locked ammonia along with free. Ammo-locked
ammonia isn't toxic, but 3 ppm is still more than there should be from
chloramines in water changes.

I think the nitrites will go down soon since you're getting conversion
to nitrate. Six weeks it typical for nitrates to finish cycling.

If you can find it, try a single dose of Bio-Spira in the tank to see if
you can help the ammonia converting bacteria catch up.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[teri]

>Sorry about your platy. It sucks to lose your first fish.
thank you. horrible feeling of failure and letting the fish down or
something.

>I'm puzzled by your ammonia levels. First, it should be gone. Second
>if your pH is above 7, all your fish would be quite sick in that much
>ammonia.
hmm, I only tested the pH once in the beginning, it was 7.4.

>Are you sure you're using a salicylate kit? It shold change
>color from yellow to green, not clear to yellow-orange. If you're not,
>you're measuring the ammo-locked ammonia along with free. Ammo-locked
>ammonia isn't toxic, but 3 ppm is still more than there should be from
>chloramines in water changes.
they are dipsticks, but yes they do go from yellow to green. perhaps
it was a bit less than the 3.
but I haven't used ammo-lock for over a week I don't think anyway.

>I think the nitrites will go down soon since you're getting conversion
>to nitrate. Six weeks it typical for nitrates to finish cycling.
k. I hope the other two just live to see it.

>If you can find it, try a single dose of Bio-Spira in the tank to see if
>you can help the ammonia converting bacteria catch up.
hopefully petco will have it.

btw - is there a danger to the fish with overfeeding? Or is it just
not good because of the water quality? These guys eat whatever I put
in there, but I don't know how much would be too much.
Teri

[Elaine T]

teri wrote:
>>Sorry about your platy. It sucks to lose your first fish.
>
> thank you. horrible feeling of failure and letting the fish down or
> something.
>
>
>>I'm puzzled by your ammonia levels. First, it should be gone. Second
>>if your pH is above 7, all your fish would be quite sick in that much
>>ammonia.
>
> hmm, I only tested the pH once in the beginning, it was 7.4.
>
>
>>Are you sure you're using a salicylate kit? It shold change
>>color from yellow to green, not clear to yellow-orange. If you're not,
>>you're measuring the ammo-locked ammonia along with free. Ammo-locked
>>ammonia isn't toxic, but 3 ppm is still more than there should be from
>>chloramines in water changes.
>
> they are dipsticks, but yes they do go from yellow to green. perhaps
> it was a bit less than the 3.
> but I haven't used ammo-lock for over a week I don't think anyway.
>
>
>>I think the nitrites will go down soon since you're getting conversion
>>to nitrate. Six weeks it typical for nitrates to finish cycling.
>
> k. I hope the other two just live to see it.
>
>
>>If you can find it, try a single dose of Bio-Spira in the tank to see if
>>you can help the ammonia converting bacteria catch up.
>
> hopefully petco will have it.
>
> btw - is there a danger to the fish with overfeeding? Or is it just
> not good because of the water quality? These guys eat whatever I put
> in there, but I don't know how much would be too much.
> Teri
>
There are the same much dangers as with humans and overeating. Fish can
store too much oil in their tissues (fish get oily rather than fatty),
develop intestinal or liver problems, and tend to live shorter lives
when overfed. And yes, the water quality will deteriorate as well if
you overfeed.

A way to picture how much food to give is to imagine that the fish's
stomach is about the size of its eye. This probably means you'll only
feed a couple of flakes to your fish. I feed my adult fish very lightly
- if they're not cruising over to me to look for food and striking the
food hard, I figure I'm overfeeding. Another clue that you've overfed
is if the fish's sides become distended after feeding. Most species of
fish should look the same with stomachs full and empty, like humans.

If you're feeding an eye/stomach sized portion, which most fish will
devour in seconds, not minutes, twice a day feeding is good for most
small tropicals like platies. Should you actually start to underfeed,
the fish will lose weight and you'll know to feed more. The only fish
I've ever managed to underfeed was my first pleco, and he fattened right
back up on algae wafers and cucucmber.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[lgb]

In article >, eetmail-
says...
> Most species of
> fish should look the same with stomachs full and empty, like humans.
>
Betcha' can't say that when you're 68 like me :-).

--
BNSF = Build Now, Seep Forever

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

teri wrote:

> For the last week or so
> the levels have remained basically the same : Ammonia 3 (that has
> never changed since I started testing the water after the first week).
> Nitrite 0.25 - 0.5. Nitrate mostly 10 - 20 (yesterday more like 30
> before water change).

Have you checked the nitrate level of your tab water? In some areas
thats high to begin with, which could explain your readings.

Have you added plenty of live plants (no plastic, please!) to your tank?
They use ammonia and nitrate for food, amongst other useful functions in
the tank.

I have also had good results feeding medicated food for the first 10
days after buying new fish, to prevent opportunistic infections in
animals stressed from transport under often poor conditions.

A little detritus from the filter of an established tank from an
experienced tank owner (not dealer) can help cycling.

[teri]

>Have you checked the nitrate level of your tab water? In some areas
>thats high to begin with, which could explain your readings.
I checked he ammonia, which did not read 0, so that made me wonder
about the constant reading of 3 that I get.
The tank did test at 0 nitrate early on, so I take that one as being a
bit more accurate.

>Have you added plenty of live plants (no plastic, please!) to your tank?
>They use ammonia and nitrate for food, amongst other useful functions in
>the tank.
uh oh.

>I have also had good results feeding medicated food for the first 10
>days after buying new fish, to prevent opportunistic infections in
>animals stressed from transport under often poor conditions.
>
>A little detritus from the filter of an established tank from an
>experienced tank owner (not dealer) can help cycling.
Dumb question I guess, but what do you do with it then? My neighbor
has a big well established tank I could get some from.
teri

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

teri wrote:


> >A little detritus from the filter of an established tank from an
> >experienced tank owner (not dealer) can help cycling.
> Dumb question I guess, but what do you do with it then? My neighbor
> has a big well established tank I could get some from.

Detritus you can simply add to the water, if you get a bit of filter
medium instead, put it directly in your filter. You don't need much, the
material contains usefull bacteria, which, once seeded, will grow and
multiply in your filter.

Just make sure that when you rinse your filter (not too often, once a
month is fine) you use tank water, rather than tab water to protect
those bacteria. I do that with water removed for a water change. Also be
gentle, you want to remove some gunk, but not the bacteria.