Water change = new surprises

[Jack]

Hi.
It's year 2 and just did a full water change on our little 300 gallon pond.
Found a few surprises when the pool was emptied.
First off, about a week ago I was out of town for 6 days and when I came
back I decided to do the water change as it was pretty mungy as I left. At
the time of leaving there were 5 fish (from the original 6) that survived
our mild winter: 3 goldies, 2 skubunkins(?) Now, after doing the water
change I found only 3 goldies, 2 tiny fingerlings (look like imported trout
from a friends wild pond), and 3 - 3" frogs!
My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away? No
bodies found at the bottom. Neighbourhood cats? ..nah, the pond sides are
too steep and no plants we disturbed. Not aware of any raccoons in the area
either, and again nothing disturbed. So, do frogs eat 6" fish? Are the 2
tiny fingerlings that aggressive? How about the goldies as all 3 of those
survived. There are lots of tall everygreens surrounding the property and
thought there might be predators in those trees. But haven't seen any
eagles or herrons, etc. Perhaps they dropped by when they detected no
humans around for the week?

Your thoughts?
Thanks.
Jack

[Reel McKoi]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90...
> Hi.
> It's year 2 and just did a full water change on our little 300 gallon
pond.
> Found a few surprises when the pool was emptied.
> First off, about a week ago I was out of town for 6 days and when I came
> back I decided to do the water change as it was pretty mungy as I left.
At
> the time of leaving there were 5 fish (from the original 6) that survived
> our mild winter: 3 goldies, 2 skubunkins(?) Now, after doing the water
> change I found only 3 goldies, 2 tiny fingerlings (look like imported
trout
> from a friends wild pond), and 3 - 3" frogs!
> My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away? No
> bodies found at the bottom. Neighbourhood cats? ..nah, the pond sides
are
> too steep and no plants we disturbed.

## Large frogs eat fish as do snakes, herons, mud turtles and King Fishers.

Not aware of any raccoons in the area
> either, and again nothing disturbed. So, do frogs eat 6" fish?

## Yes.

Are the 2
> tiny fingerlings that aggressive? How about the goldies as all 3 of those
> survived. There are lots of tall everygreens surrounding the property and
> thought there might be predators in those trees. But haven't seen any
> eagles or herrons, etc.

## That doesn't mean they're not there when you are away from home or
asleep.

Perhaps they dropped by when they detected no
> humans around for the week?

## More than likely.... :-(

> Your thoughts?
> Thanks.
> Jack
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jack]

Thanks, Reel :*)

Howabout if I should start by getting rid of the frogs ..perhaps 1 at a
time? They are currently being held in a large container. Eh, they seem
pretty docile although they can usually spot me as I approach the pond and I
see a splash. That's how I discovered them in the first place (last
summer). But if they were after the fish, I would have thought the little
troutmeisters would have been the first to go as I understand the other
fish, fancy goldies, can be rather aggressive. As for birds/raptors, there
are hawks now in the neighbourhood but haven't really been bothered by them.
I just hear them every once in a while. Again, they may have watched for
the yard to be quiet (while I was away).

I hate like heck putting all this work into a pond build only to have to
cover it up with netting. How about using a single fish line fence around
its perimeter? Would this work against most preditors ..especially herons?
I've now repositioned several water plants to more fully cover the shelves
and built a rock and boulder fort on the pond bottom. As well I've got some
overturned nursery pots on the bottom and cut openings in them for refuge.
I placed water plant containers on them to both hold the pots down and to
help raise the water plants. Also, there is a water fall of sorts. It
consists of a huge boulder with a core drilled out of it. Water is
backrouted to the hole and voila! a wash down its face directly into the
pond. I feel this may camoflage the fish a bit by disturbing the water
surface.

Jack


"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jack" > wrote in message
> news:u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90...
>> Hi.
>> It's year 2 and just did a full water change on our little 300 gallon
> pond.
>> Found a few surprises when the pool was emptied.
>> First off, about a week ago I was out of town for 6 days and when I came
>> back I decided to do the water change as it was pretty mungy as I left.
> At
>> the time of leaving there were 5 fish (from the original 6) that survived
>> our mild winter: 3 goldies, 2 skubunkins(?) Now, after doing the water
>> change I found only 3 goldies, 2 tiny fingerlings (look like imported
> trout
>> from a friends wild pond), and 3 - 3" frogs!
>> My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away? No
>> bodies found at the bottom. Neighbourhood cats? ..nah, the pond sides
> are
>> too steep and no plants we disturbed.
>
> ## Large frogs eat fish as do snakes, herons, mud turtles and King
> Fishers.
>
> Not aware of any raccoons in the area
>> either, and again nothing disturbed. So, do frogs eat 6" fish?
>
> ## Yes.
>
> Are the 2
>> tiny fingerlings that aggressive? How about the goldies as all 3 of
>> those
>> survived. There are lots of tall everygreens surrounding the property
>> and
>> thought there might be predators in those trees. But haven't seen any
>> eagles or herrons, etc.
>
> ## That doesn't mean they're not there when you are away from home or
> asleep.
>
> Perhaps they dropped by when they detected no
>> humans around for the week?
>
> ## More than likely.... :-(
>
>> Your thoughts?
>> Thanks.
>> Jack
> --
> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
> before flushing." :-)
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[Reel McKoi]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:0_dhe.38145$0X6.9215@edtnps90...
> Thanks, Reel :*)
>
> Howabout if I should start by getting rid of the frogs ..perhaps 1 at a
> time?

* I would remove them to a nearby lake but more would show up in no time.
Only the fine black bird nets kept them out of my ponds.

They are currently being held in a large container.

* Please relocate them before they suffer from stress or
dehydration/starvation. Some frogs seem to be very delicate.

Eh, they seem
> pretty docile although they can usually spot me as I approach the pond and
I
> see a splash. That's how I discovered them in the first place (last
> summer). But if they were after the fish, I would have thought the little
> troutmeisters would have been the first to go as I understand the other
> fish, fancy goldies, can be rather aggressive.

* I've never seen a GF or koi try and defend itself. They're such easy prey
for all the predators out there.

As for birds/raptors, there
> are hawks now in the neighbourhood but haven't really been bothered by
them.
> I just hear them every once in a while. Again, they may have watched for
> the yard to be quiet (while I was away).

* I never did see hawks bother my fish. The only birds we saw take them
were King Fishers and herons.

> I hate like heck putting all this work into a pond build only to have to
> cover it up with netting.

* I know exactly how you feel. In my case it was either have fishless ponds
or net them. :-(

How about using a single fish line fence around
> its perimeter?

* That;s useless against fish eating birds, frogs, snakes and mud turtles.

Would this work against most preditors ..especially herons?

* No, the herons hop right over it.... I tried all those tricks. Heavy
planting around the pond edge helped for awhile but encouraged more snakes
and bullfrogs.

> I've now repositioned several water plants to more fully cover the shelves
> and built a rock and boulder fort on the pond bottom. As well I've got
some
> overturned nursery pots on the bottom and cut openings in them for refuge.

* That will not protect them against frogs, turtles and snakes who will
follow them! Herons will wait for them to emerge and KF are so fast the
fish wont have time to hide.

> I placed water plant containers on them to both hold the pots down and to
> help raise the water plants. Also, there is a water fall of sorts. It
> consists of a huge boulder with a core drilled out of it. Water is
> backrouted to the hole and voila! a wash down its face directly into the
> pond. I feel this may camoflage the fish a bit by disturbing the water
> surface.

* Let us know if any of these things work for you.

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[kathy]

Don't get rid of the frogs unless you determine
they are bullfrogs.
Bullfrogs have a fold of skin that starts at the
eye and curves around the ear drum. When they
call in warm weather they will sound like
'run,rum,run'.

Different predator deterrents work for different
pond and yard set ups. What might work for
one will not work for another. Experimentation.

Protective measures are:
- two different kinds of electric shock fence
the 'FiShock' dog fence and the 'Pond Guardian'
fence.
- the 'Scarecrow' motion activated sprinkler, sometimes
two are needed
- some folks have good luck with fishing line strung around
- bird netting
- humane traps for raccoons
- 'Heron Scarer' decoy for kingfishers

You can look up the various products on
www.froogle.com to find out more information and
compare prices.

good luck!!

kathy :-)
www.blogfromthebog.com

[Jack]

Well, I took pity on the frogs and released them back into the pond ..along
with the fingerlings. After taking a closer look at the froggies it seems
they are just so small and harmless to not pose much of a problem.
Afterall, they have been there for some time and what? ..wait for me to
leave before chawing on the skubunkins? Doesn't seem reasonable to me. But
what does seem interesting is that I started off with 3 skubunkins and 3
fancy goldies. I lost one skubunkin over winter (very mild) and now the
other 2 have vanished within the last week. Either some predators are very
selective or there is a dispute among the fish and the goldies won. If so,
is it common for skubunkins and goldies to have compatibility problems? And
if it is, I'll just get more goldies.

So I think I'm going to keep an eye on the remainder then restock in a
couple weeks or so (should I get more 6" or just get some 3" and lettem grow
like these guys?). If it looks like there's still trouble then I'll renet.
And on that topic of netting: should the net be suspended in the center
(like a pup tent) or just hovering on a lattice platform with no sides
(it'll keep the divers out). But then I have several tall plants and I
think the netting will interfere with them. I really don't want the plants
to grow through the netting as it will be then impossible to get at the pond
...for filter cleaning, etc.







"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jack" > wrote in message
> news:0_dhe.38145$0X6.9215@edtnps90...
>> Thanks, Reel :*)
>>
>> Howabout if I should start by getting rid of the frogs ..perhaps 1 at a
>> time?
>
> * I would remove them to a nearby lake but more would show up in no time.
> Only the fine black bird nets kept them out of my ponds.
>
> They are currently being held in a large container.
>
> * Please relocate them before they suffer from stress or
> dehydration/starvation. Some frogs seem to be very delicate.
>
> Eh, they seem
>> pretty docile although they can usually spot me as I approach the pond
>> and
> I
>> see a splash. That's how I discovered them in the first place (last
>> summer). But if they were after the fish, I would have thought the
>> little
>> troutmeisters would have been the first to go as I understand the other
>> fish, fancy goldies, can be rather aggressive.
>
> * I've never seen a GF or koi try and defend itself. They're such easy
> prey
> for all the predators out there.
>
> As for birds/raptors, there
>> are hawks now in the neighbourhood but haven't really been bothered by
> them.
>> I just hear them every once in a while. Again, they may have watched for
>> the yard to be quiet (while I was away).
>
> * I never did see hawks bother my fish. The only birds we saw take them
> were King Fishers and herons.
>
>> I hate like heck putting all this work into a pond build only to have to
>> cover it up with netting.
>
> * I know exactly how you feel. In my case it was either have fishless
> ponds
> or net them. :-(
>
> How about using a single fish line fence around
>> its perimeter?
>
> * That;s useless against fish eating birds, frogs, snakes and mud turtles.
>
> Would this work against most preditors ..especially herons?
>
> * No, the herons hop right over it.... I tried all those tricks. Heavy
> planting around the pond edge helped for awhile but encouraged more snakes
> and bullfrogs.
>
>> I've now repositioned several water plants to more fully cover the
>> shelves
>> and built a rock and boulder fort on the pond bottom. As well I've got
> some
>> overturned nursery pots on the bottom and cut openings in them for
>> refuge.
>
> * That will not protect them against frogs, turtles and snakes who will
> follow them! Herons will wait for them to emerge and KF are so fast the
> fish wont have time to hide.
>
>> I placed water plant containers on them to both hold the pots down and to
>> help raise the water plants. Also, there is a water fall of sorts. It
>> consists of a huge boulder with a core drilled out of it. Water is
>> backrouted to the hole and voila! a wash down its face directly into the
>> pond. I feel this may camoflage the fish a bit by disturbing the water
>> surface.
>
> * Let us know if any of these things work for you.
>
> --
> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
> before flushing." :-)
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>

[Reel McKoi]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:iHehe.38149$0X6.25044@edtnps90...
> Well, I took pity on the frogs and released them back into the pond
...along
> with the fingerlings. After taking a closer look at the froggies it seems
> they are just so small and harmless to not pose much of a problem.

$$ If they're the small green frogs they should now cause a problem. It's
the bullfrogs that caused us so much grief.

> Afterall, they have been there for some time and what? ..wait for me to
> leave before chawing on the skubunkins? Doesn't seem reasonable to me.
But
> what does seem interesting is that I started off with 3 skubunkins and 3
> fancy goldies. I lost one skubunkin over winter (very mild) and now the
> other 2 have vanished within the last week. Either some predators are
very
> selective or there is a dispute among the fish and the goldies won. If
so,
> is it common for skubunkins and goldies to have compatibility problems?
And
> if it is, I'll just get more goldies.

$$ There are no compatibility problems as BOTH are goldfish. GF come in all
shapes and colors.

> So I think I'm going to keep an eye on the remainder then restock in a
> couple weeks or so (should I get more 6" or just get some 3" and lettem
grow
> like these guys?).

$$ That would be up to whatever size you prefer. I always bought my GF at
about the 2" size. Now I raise my own.

If it looks like there's still trouble then I'll renet.
> And on that topic of netting: should the net be suspended in the center
> (like a pup tent) or just hovering on a lattice platform with no sides
> (it'll keep the divers out).

$$ Mine is suspended on that cheap wire garden fencing you can buy anywhere.
It holds it about 20" above the water. Make sure it's secured where it hits
the ground or snakes will crawl under it.

But then I have several tall plants and I
> think the netting will interfere with them. I really don't want the
plants
> to grow through the netting as it will be then impossible to get at the
pond
> ..for filter cleaning, etc.

$$ Nets can be a real pain...... but sometimes there is no other choice.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jack]

Thanks, Kathy. Gosh, I was attempting to take a picture of one of the frogs
but it was getting dark when I let him (them) back into the pond. It
scampered before I got the shot. But I did'nt notice any of your
distinguishing marks of a bullfrog. These guys were pretty small with
bulging eyes and very timid. Like I said earlier, I think I'll just keep a
better monitor of the pond, replenish with some more fishies and perhaps
string a net over it. Hmm.. I had a net over the pond (stretched taught,
weighted down with perimeter boulders) all winter long (to keep the leaves
out) but every so often the net had collapsed to the surface. I thought it
was a frog trying to get back into the pond, as I caught one hung up on the
top of the net. Anyway, the net was removed a week before I left town ..2
weeks ago. Perhaps this latest absence of a net is a clue, huh. Jack



"kathy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Don't get rid of the frogs unless you determine
> they are bullfrogs.
> Bullfrogs have a fold of skin that starts at the
> eye and curves around the ear drum. When they
> call in warm weather they will sound like
> 'run,rum,run'.
>
> Different predator deterrents work for different
> pond and yard set ups. What might work for
> one will not work for another. Experimentation.
>
> Protective measures are:
> - two different kinds of electric shock fence
> the 'FiShock' dog fence and the 'Pond Guardian'
> fence.
> - the 'Scarecrow' motion activated sprinkler, sometimes
> two are needed
> - some folks have good luck with fishing line strung around
> - bird netting
> - humane traps for raccoons
> - 'Heron Scarer' decoy for kingfishers
>
> You can look up the various products on
> www.froogle.com to find out more information and
> compare prices.
>
> good luck!!
>
> kathy :-)
> www.blogfromthebog.com
>

[Greg Cooper]

Jack wrote:

>
> My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away?
My bet would be on a King fisher. It makes sense given that you were
away for a while and your yard would be quiet.

Sorry you lost some of your friends.

[axemanchris]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90...
> Hi.
> It's year 2 and just did a full water change on our little 300 gallon
pond.
> Found a few surprises when the pool was emptied.
> First off, about a week ago I was out of town for 6 days and when I came
> back I decided to do the water change as it was pretty mungy as I left.
At
> the time of leaving there were 5 fish (from the original 6) that survived
> our mild winter: 3 goldies, 2 skubunkins(?) Now, after doing the water
> change I found only 3 goldies, 2 tiny fingerlings (look like imported
trout
> from a friends wild pond), and 3 - 3" frogs!
> My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away? No
> bodies found at the bottom. Neighbourhood cats? ..nah, the pond sides
are
> too steep and no plants we disturbed. Not aware of any raccoons in the
area
> either, and again nothing disturbed. So, do frogs eat 6" fish? Are the 2
> tiny fingerlings that aggressive? How about the goldies as all 3 of those
> survived. There are lots of tall everygreens surrounding the property and
> thought there might be predators in those trees. But haven't seen any
> eagles or herrons, etc. Perhaps they dropped by when they detected no
> humans around for the week?
>
> Your thoughts?
> Thanks.
> Jack
>

Not sure what would have happened to your fish, but 3" frogs cannot eat a
6" fish. I have had female fish die from the effects of spawning and their
floating bodies removed from the pond by "something" (probably a raccoon).
Do you know what sort of frogs you have? Unless they're bullfrogs they
probably won't get so big you have to worry about them eating all your fish.

Jacqui
>

[Jack]

Again, I really doubt it's the frogs too ..unless together they ganged up
on a fish. And I don't think it's a bullfrog as they have remained small
since first finding them last summer. Only difference is they have
multiplied to three from the single one I found last year. They don't make
any sound at all, and their faces are more pointed than flat. Unlike a
bullfrog these are pretty delicate looking creatures. Except for the 2
small fry (I think they're imported trout from a friend's wild pond) there
appear to be no young goldies this season. But the remaining 3 have grown
twice their original 3". And they sure are bright! Just a shame we lost
the original 3 skubunkins as they were the same size and quite beautiful.
Sniff.



"axemanchris" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Jack" > wrote in message
> news:u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90...
>> Hi.
>> It's year 2 and just did a full water change on our little 300 gallon
> pond.
>> Found a few surprises when the pool was emptied.
>> First off, about a week ago I was out of town for 6 days and when I came
>> back I decided to do the water change as it was pretty mungy as I left.
> At
>> the time of leaving there were 5 fish (from the original 6) that survived
>> our mild winter: 3 goldies, 2 skubunkins(?) Now, after doing the water
>> change I found only 3 goldies, 2 tiny fingerlings (look like imported
> trout
>> from a friends wild pond), and 3 - 3" frogs!
>> My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away? No
>> bodies found at the bottom. Neighbourhood cats? ..nah, the pond sides
> are
>> too steep and no plants we disturbed. Not aware of any raccoons in the
> area
>> either, and again nothing disturbed. So, do frogs eat 6" fish? Are the
>> 2
>> tiny fingerlings that aggressive? How about the goldies as all 3 of
>> those
>> survived. There are lots of tall everygreens surrounding the property
>> and
>> thought there might be predators in those trees. But haven't seen any
>> eagles or herrons, etc. Perhaps they dropped by when they detected no
>> humans around for the week?
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>> Thanks.
>> Jack
>>
>
> Not sure what would have happened to your fish, but 3" frogs cannot eat a
> 6" fish. I have had female fish die from the effects of spawning and
> their
> floating bodies removed from the pond by "something" (probably a raccoon).
> Do you know what sort of frogs you have? Unless they're bullfrogs they
> probably won't get so big you have to worry about them eating all your
> fish.
>
> Jacqui
>>
>
>

[axemanchris]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...
> Again, I really doubt it's the frogs too ..unless together they ganged up
> on a fish. And I don't think it's a bullfrog as they have remained small
> since first finding them last summer. Only difference is they have
> multiplied to three from the single one I found last year. They don't
make
> any sound at all, and their faces are more pointed than flat. Unlike a
> bullfrog these are pretty delicate looking creatures. Except for the 2
> small fry (I think they're imported trout from a friend's wild pond) there
> appear to be no young goldies this season. But the remaining 3 have grown
> twice their original 3". And they sure are bright! Just a shame we lost
> the original 3 skubunkins as they were the same size and quite beautiful.
> Sniff.

Shubunkins are my favourites. I know how you feel :-(

Jacqui
>
>
>
> "axemanchris" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Jack" > wrote in message
> > news:u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90...
> >> Hi.
> >> It's year 2 and just did a full water change on our little 300 gallon
> > pond.
> >> Found a few surprises when the pool was emptied.
> >> First off, about a week ago I was out of town for 6 days and when I
came
> >> back I decided to do the water change as it was pretty mungy as I left.
> > At
> >> the time of leaving there were 5 fish (from the original 6) that
survived
> >> our mild winter: 3 goldies, 2 skubunkins(?) Now, after doing the
water
> >> change I found only 3 goldies, 2 tiny fingerlings (look like imported
> > trout
> >> from a friends wild pond), and 3 - 3" frogs!
> >> My concern is, what happened to the 2 skubunkins while I was away? No
> >> bodies found at the bottom. Neighbourhood cats? ..nah, the pond sides
> > are
> >> too steep and no plants we disturbed. Not aware of any raccoons in the
> > area
> >> either, and again nothing disturbed. So, do frogs eat 6" fish? Are
the
> >> 2
> >> tiny fingerlings that aggressive? How about the goldies as all 3 of
> >> those
> >> survived. There are lots of tall everygreens surrounding the property
> >> and
> >> thought there might be predators in those trees. But haven't seen any
> >> eagles or herrons, etc. Perhaps they dropped by when they detected no
> >> humans around for the week?
> >>
> >> Your thoughts?
> >> Thanks.
> >> Jack
> >>
> >
> > Not sure what would have happened to your fish, but 3" frogs cannot eat
a
> > 6" fish. I have had female fish die from the effects of spawning and
> > their
> > floating bodies removed from the pond by "something" (probably a
raccoon).
> > Do you know what sort of frogs you have? Unless they're bullfrogs they
> > probably won't get so big you have to worry about them eating all your
> > fish.
> >
> > Jacqui
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Reel Mckoi]

axemanchris wrote:

> "Jack" > wrote in message
> news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...

Big SNIProooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

We are here about Ponds; not frogs, turtles nor pet baboons!!!

you want to discuss turtles and frogs?

go to the rec.herp news groups.

I am trying to clean this place up of off topic junk.

McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jack]

Hey, what do you think "ponds" are about, beer-making?
Jack


"Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
...
> axemanchris wrote:
>
>> "Jack" > wrote in message
>> news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...
>
> Big SNIProooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
> We are here about Ponds; not frogs, turtles nor pet baboons!!!
>
> you want to discuss turtles and frogs?
>
> go to the rec.herp news groups.
>
> I am trying to clean this place up of off topic junk.
>
> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
> before flushing." :-)
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:08:01 -0400
From: Reel Mckoi >
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Water change = new surprises
References: <u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90>
>
<Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12>
>
In-Reply-To: >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Organization: SunSITE.dk - Supporting Open source
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X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
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X-Complaints-To:
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Xref: x-privat.org rec.ponds:221034


"Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
...
> axemanchris wrote:
>
> > "Jack" > wrote in message
> > news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...
>
> Big SNIProooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
> We are here about Ponds; not frogs, turtles nor pet baboons!!!
>
> you want to discuss turtles and frogs?
>
> go to the rec.herp news groups.
>
> I am trying to clean this place up of off topic junk.
>
> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
> before flushing." :-)
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:sRwhe.55317$vN2.22555@clgrps13...
> Hey, what do you think "ponds" are about, beer-making?
> Jack
================
That was a FORGED HEADER. They think they'll drive me off by forging my
headers.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

>
> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
> > axemanchris wrote:
> >
> >> "Jack" > wrote in message
> >> news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...
> >
> > Big SNIProooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> >
> > We are here about Ponds; not frogs, turtles nor pet baboons!!!
> >
> > you want to discuss turtles and frogs?
> >
> > go to the rec.herp news groups.
> >
> > I am trying to clean this place up of off topic junk.
> >
> > McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
> > EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
> > before flushing." :-)
> > ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>

[Jack]

I came to this discussion group for information exchange not silly childish
crap.
Sorry. Don't want any further part of this.
Jack.




"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:08:01 -0400
> From: Reel Mckoi >
> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Newsgroups: rec.ponds
> Subject: Re: Water change = new surprises
> References: <u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90>
> >
> <Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12>
> >
> In-Reply-To: >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Lines: 19
> Message-ID: >
> Organization: SunSITE.dk - Supporting Open source
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.154.80.40
> X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
> DXC=4T`<1I?X;BdMMDg2]64EMfYSB=nbEKnkkMOO^;8aV]6naOR63ePXk2b[me2a_>U\_`]CDY[=
> VZ7PcK3mjodO379bjc\Ec2O_AafNciK8[_k?_j
> X-Complaints-To:
> Path:
> x-privat.org!texta.sil.at!news.banetele.no!dotsrc.or g!news.dotsrc.org!not-fo
> r-mail
> Xref: x-privat.org rec.ponds:221034
>
>
> "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
> ...
>> axemanchris wrote:
>>
>> > "Jack" > wrote in message
>> > news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...
>>
>> Big SNIProooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> We are here about Ponds; not frogs, turtles nor pet baboons!!!
>>
>> you want to discuss turtles and frogs?
>>
>> go to the rec.herp news groups.
>>
>> I am trying to clean this place up of off topic junk.
>>
>> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
>> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
>> before flushing." :-)
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>

[Reel McKoi]

"Jack" > wrote in message
news:bhBhe.116338$3V3.32680@edtnps89...
> I came to this discussion group for information exchange not silly
childish
> crap.
> Sorry. Don't want any further part of this.
> Jack.
==============
Neither does anyone else. You need to ignore trolls and use your killfile.
There *are* nice folks here who discuss ponds. :-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

DOn't let the door slam you on your butt as you leave.

buh-bye

Jack wrote:
> I came to this discussion group for information exchange not silly childish
> crap.
> Sorry. Don't want any further part of this.
> Jack.
>

[Fred Hall]

On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:

>Good show carol Good show
>
>bully, bully, bully I say.
>
>time for tea.
>
>what a shame.. yes.
>
>Ponders are leaaving
>Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..

Did you skip the meeting this morning?

Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
"Carol".

Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.

>
>Jack wrote:
>> I came to this discussion group for information exchange not silly
>childish
>> crap.
>> Sorry. Don't want any further part of this.
>> Jack.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:08:01 -0400
>> > From: Reel Mckoi >
>> > User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
>> > X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>> > MIME-Version: 1.0
>> > Newsgroups: rec.ponds
>> > Subject: Re: Water change = new surprises
>> > References: <u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90>
>> > >
>> > <Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12>
>> > >
>> > In-Reply-To: >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> > Lines: 19
>> > Message-ID: >
>> > Organization: SunSITE.dk - Supporting Open source
>> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.154.80.40
>> > X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
>> >
>DXC=4T`<1I?X;BdMMDg2]64EMfYSB=nbEKnkkMOO^;8aV]6naOR63ePXk2b[me2a_>U\_`]CDY[=
>> > VZ7PcK3mjodO379bjc\Ec2O_AafNciK8[_k?_j
>> > X-Complaints-To:
>> > Path:
>> >
>x-privat.org!texta.sil.at!news.banetele.no!dotsrc.or g!news.dotsrc.org!not-fo
>> > r-mail
>> > Xref: x-privat.org rec.ponds:221034
>> >
>> >
>> > "Reel Mckoi" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> axemanchris wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Jack" > wrote in message
>> >> > news:Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12...
>> >>
>> >> Big SNIProooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>> >>
>> >> We are here about Ponds; not frogs, turtles nor pet baboons!!!
>> >>
>> >> you want to discuss turtles and frogs?
>> >>
>> >> go to the rec.herp news groups.
>> >>
>> >> I am trying to clean this place up of off topic junk.
>> >>
>> >> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
>> >> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
>> >> before flushing." :-)
>> >> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>> >


--

For those who complain about too much old light,
here's some kooky new light from the WTS:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part4.htm

http://silentlambs.org
www.freeminds.org

[Reel McKoi]

Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 11:50:07 -0400
From: Reel McKoi >
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Subject: Re: Water change = new surprises (FORGED HEADER)
References: <u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90>
>
<Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12>
>
> >
<bhBhe.116338$3V3.32680@edtnps89>
In-Reply-To: <bhBhe.116338$3V3.32680@edtnps89>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 10
Message-ID: >
Organization: SunSITE.dk - Supporting Open source
NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.154.80.26
X-Trace: news.sunsite.dk
DXC=`BBYIROSdd^07<M:5AA`SVYSB=nbEKnk[OL;;Knj2oTSaOR63ePXk2R[me2a_>U\_P]CDY[=
VZ7PSK3mjodO379R<cI3eDnF5]\G^[HNa7Z\F_
X-Complaints-To:
Path:
x-privat.org!texta.sil.at!news.banetele.no!dotsrc.or g!news.dotsrc.org!not-fo
r-mail
Xref: x-privat.org rec.ponds:221141


"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
> DOn't let the door slam you on your butt as you leave.
>
> buh-bye
>
> Jack wrote:
> > I came to this discussion group for information exchange not silly
childish
> > crap.
> > Sorry. Don't want any further part of this.
> > Jack.
> >

[Reel McKoi]

"Fred Hall" > wrote in message
...
> On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>
> >Good show carol Good show
> >
> >bully, bully, bully I say.
> >
> >time for tea.
> >
> >what a shame.. yes.
> >
> >Ponders are leaaving
> >Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..
>
> Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>
> Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
> came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
> with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
> "Carol".
>
> Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
==================
He's got ~Roy~, another nasty troll, helping him destroy this pond NG now.
~Roy~ admitted he's enjoying it. No one seems to mind *their* abuse. I can
see why so many of the old-timers have left this NG.

AFN not snipped.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Cracklin']

"Fred Hall" > wrote in message
...
> On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>
> >Good show carol Good show
> >
> >bully, bully, bully I say.
> >
> >time for tea.
> >
> >what a shame.. yes.
> >
> >Ponders are leaaving
> >Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..
>
> Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>
> Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
> came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
> with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
> "Carol".
>
> Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
=================================
Because all the posters on ARJ-W knew my sigfiles. I wasn't trying to fool
anyone with sock-puppets nor did I forge headers as is now being done by
these two trolls trying to destroy rec.ponds - and blame me for *their*
behavior. :-)

CR........

[Fred Hall]

On 15 May 2005 10:36:22 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:

>
>Fred Hall wrote:
>..
>>
>> Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>
>The power of the blackberry.

You post to rec.ponds while at the KH? Man, that's some kind of
obsession.

>
>
>>
>> Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
>> came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
>> with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
>> "Carol".
>>
>
>
>sure

Care to see the statistics I've compiled. I didn't think so. They
don't fit your agenda.

>
>> Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
>>
>
>uh which poster?

MMM, A7, Mark Gonzales, in fact, in ye olden days, it didn't bother
you either. Mountain out of a molehill, 'tonio.

>havent you notice they are all Carol.. over there. And the child porn
>was the coup de grace.

Interesting you should bring up child porn. Someone using "Jabriol"
and variations of "Jabriol", and even "Tony Santana" is posting child
porn binaries even as we post. Google is not your friend on this one,
but you being an IP pro, you should have no trouble finding the pedo
swine who are doing it.

>
>in any case rec.ponds is in a decaline, today the subject of rec.pond
>is forgred headers.

As good a subject as any. You should be able to contribute to the
subject.

>
>does carol think anybody cares?
>the old ponder got their filter up. and any newsbie looking for a legit
>response to a pond problem, well look at jack.. he hit the road.

wrecked.ponds will survive. The reg's may be naive, but they aren't
stupid.


--

For those who complain about too much old light,
here's some kooky new light from the WTS:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part4.htm

http://silentlambs.org
www.freeminds.org

[Fred Hall]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 12:39:28 -0500, "Reel McKoi"
> wrote:

>
>"Fred Hall" > wrote in message
...
>> On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>>
>> >Good show carol Good show
>> >
>> >bully, bully, bully I say.
>> >
>> >time for tea.
>> >
>> >what a shame.. yes.
>> >
>> >Ponders are leaaving
>> >Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..
>>
>> Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>>
>> Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
>> came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
>> with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
>> "Carol".
>>
>> Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
>==================
>He's got ~Roy~, another nasty troll, helping him destroy this pond NG now.

Roy is not a nasty troll. He would be eaten alive in the flame
froups.

>~Roy~ admitted he's enjoying it.

Of course he is. It is oh so easy to (f)lame in a froup like
wrecked.ponds. But he's certainly picked one of Usenet's most
unsavory characters to side with. The fallout should be interesting.


> No one seems to mind *their* abuse. I can
>see why so many of the old-timers have left this NG.

They'll be back. A similar thing happened in one of my favorite
froups a couple years back. After about a year the reg's came back.

>
>AFN not snipped.

No point in it. 'tonio will just add it back in his reply. ;-)


--

For those who complain about too much old light,
here's some kooky new light from the WTS:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part4.htm

http://silentlambs.org
www.freeminds.org

[Fred Hall]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 12:46:00 -0500, "Cracklin'" > wrote:

>
>"Fred Hall" > wrote in message
...
>> On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>>
>> >Good show carol Good show
>> >
>> >bully, bully, bully I say.
>> >
>> >time for tea.
>> >
>> >what a shame.. yes.
>> >
>> >Ponders are leaaving
>> >Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..
>>
>> Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>>
>> Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
>> came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
>> with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
>> "Carol".
>>
>> Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
>=================================
>Because all the posters on ARJ-W knew my sigfiles. I wasn't trying to fool
>anyone with sock-puppets nor did I forge headers as is now being done by
>these two trolls trying to destroy rec.ponds - and blame me for *their*
>behavior. :-)

That's how it's done. 'tonio, as you know, has years of experience
torlling support and religious froups. If you took all of his posts
that actually contributed to a discussion over the years and put them
in a single folder, the size of the folder might be about 1k. The
rest were all torll posts with 0 kb's of content.

>
>CR........
>


--

For those who complain about too much old light,
here's some kooky new light from the WTS:

http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part4.htm

http://silentlambs.org
www.freeminds.org

[Reel McKoi]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> No one seems to mind *their* abuse. I can
> see why so many of the old-timers have left this NG.
>
> AFN not snipped.

They mind, and they left. I the real mckoy made them a promise.
I kept it.

tommorrow it is going to be worse.
Unless I Carol Witkoski retract...
================================================== ==================
Reverend Mother the honorable Cracklin' Rosie Mckoi.... the frugal
> ponder...
> "To persevere in one's duty and
> be silent, is the best answer to calumny."
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[DE]

Cracklin' wrote:
> "Fred Hall" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Good show carol Good show
>>>
>>>bully, bully, bully I say.
>>>
>>>time for tea.
>>>
>>>what a shame.. yes.
>>>
>>>Ponders are leaaving
>>>Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..
>>
>>Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>>
>>Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
>>came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
>>with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
>>"Carol".
>>
>>Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
>
> =================================
> Because all the posters on ARJ-W knew my sigfiles. I wasn't trying to fool
> anyone with sock-puppets nor did I forge headers as is now being done by
> these two trolls trying to destroy rec.ponds - and blame me for *their*
> behavior. :-)
>
> CR........
>
>
Uh, Carol, is this not from your actual sig?

>> "To persevere in one's duty and
>> be silent, is the best answer to calumny."

WHY can't you seem to follow your own advice and stop responding,
instead of feeding Jabbers more & more bait?

Do you really have that little self-control? Do you REALLY believe
that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE ELSE to filter you out
because you can't contain yourself? Do you really want to admit that
you have so little of value to say that people SHOULD filter you out,
as you invite the rec.pond folks to do because you won't stop
responding to Jabriol?


Are you so completely incapable of controlling yourself that you just
HAVE to respond even when you would otherwise be winning the battle,
even when it means risking your long-term relationships with those on
rec.ponds who just DON'T WANT TO READ THIS BS WAR YOU HAVE GOING WITH
JABRIOL?!


Carol, stop!, again, instead of attacking me for pointing this out to
you, GET SOME SELF-CONTROL AND STOP RESPONDING TO JABRIOL'S TAUNTS.
Go back to rec.ponds and talk about PONDS ONLY and IGNORE EVERYTHING
ELSE. If you want to talk about JW, do so ONLY ON THE JW GROUPS. If
you have a news server issue, take it up with the NSP or post here
*when appropriate*.

Then people might develop an ounce of respect for you, instead of
buying into Jabriol's insistence that you are the problem (a point you
seem to want to prove by continuing to egging things on, as ludicrous
as it is.)

-- DE

[DE]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> "Fred Hall" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On 15 May 2005 10:13:49 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Good show carol Good show
>>>
>>>bully, bully, bully I say.
>>>
>>>time for tea.
>>>
>>>what a shame.. yes.
>>>
>>>Ponders are leaaving
>>>Just like the JW's left, because of her harrasment..
>>
>>Did you skip the meeting this morning?
>>
>>Arjw was already going downhill by the end of 2002. The real decline
>>came with the appearance of your spiritual brother Lyin' Louie Perez,
>>with his floods of blank posts with the subject lines "PB" and
>>"Carol".
>>
>>Carol's nym shifting didn't bother the posters of arjw.
>
> ==================
> He's got ~Roy~, another nasty troll, helping him destroy this pond NG now.
> ~Roy~ admitted he's enjoying it. No one seems to mind *their* abuse. I can
> see why so many of the old-timers have left this NG.
>
> AFN not snipped.

If you would STOP RESPONDING to it -- instead of insisting that those
who don't like your perpetuating the problem should killfile you
(which BTW means that anyone on rec.ponds who doesn't want to read
this will also not read your pond-related posts) then they would have
lost interest long ago.

But no, you're a grown woman but you just can't stop responding to the
bait, keeping it going and going and going and going and going,
causing people to re-evaluate whose "fault" it is because you respond
nastily to all the people who've told you OVER AND OVER to just CLOSE
YOUR MOUTH ....


Is the idea of "self control" so completely beyond your comprehension
that you really want to keep this problem going, when your
participation is exactly what causes it to continue? Do you really
want to lose all your rec.ponds friends over this just because you
can't bite your tongue once in a while?

-- DE

[Sue Begg]

In message >, DE
> writes
>Do you really have that little self-control? Do you REALLY believe
>that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE ELSE to filter you out
>because you can't contain yourself? Do you really want to admit that
>you have so little of value to say that people SHOULD filter you out,
>as you invite the rec.pond folks to do because you won't stop
>responding to Jabriol?

It is something I told my son many years ago when he complained about
his sister winding him up and picking on him - Do Not Respond.

Because if you are not seeing any effect from what you do, it becomes a
very pointless exercise and soon gets boring.

You might swear at the screen and kick the cat (That would probably make
some people happy !! ) but as long as it does not appear on the screen
it does not count.

You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
--
Sue Begg
Remove my clothes to reply

Do not mess in the affairs of dragons - for
you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Kenn 'Jazz' Booth II]

Fred Hall wrote:
> On 15 May 2005 10:36:22 -0700, "jabriol" > wrote:
>
>>in any case rec.ponds is in a decaline, today the subject of rec.pond
>>is forgred headers.
>
> As good a subject as any. You should be able to contribute to the
> subject.

Hmm... pond scum... Nah... he'd end up being on-topic in there that way, and he just can't have that happen...

-- Smoovious


--
__________________________________________________ _____ _/azz /|/|aster _____
Kenn "Jazz" Booth II The Imperium, VGAP host
mail: mail:
ICQ : #26588685 IRC : UnderNet #VGAplanets

[Reel McKoi]

"DE" > wrote in message
...
> If you would STOP RESPONDING to it -- instead of insisting that those
> who don't like your perpetuating the problem should killfile you
> (which BTW means that anyone on rec.ponds who doesn't want to read
> this will also not read your pond-related posts) then they would have
> lost interest long ago.

## They *can't* read my posts anymore because Jabriol is using the same
name (forged headers again) and e-mail address wanting people to think I'm
being rude in my pond/fish replies to them. What would you do? Change
your nick? I can't since that is not allowed. Let people think his posts
are mine? Have you been here to rec.ponds and seen how many idiotic
messages he's posted using my name and address? I didn't think so........

> But no, you're a grown woman but you just can't stop responding to the
> bait, keeping it going and going and going and going and going,
> causing people to re-evaluate whose "fault" it is because you respond
> nastily to all the people who've told you OVER AND OVER to just CLOSE
> YOUR MOUTH ....

## Why do you keep getting involved? I bet you would feel differently if
he was using your name and address to post his inane crap.

> Is the idea of "self control" so completely beyond your comprehension
> that you really want to keep this problem going, when your
> participation is exactly what causes it to continue? Do you really
> want to lose all your rec.ponds friends over this just because you
> can't bite your tongue once in a while?

## Now, maybe you can tell me how to get around the problem of his forging
my headers again. After all, you sure wouldn't want someone using your name
and addy - trying to pass as YOU.

> -- DE
--
CR........
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"DE" > wrote in message
...
> Uh, Carol, is this not from your actual sig?
>
> >> "To persevere in one's duty and
> >> be silent, is the best answer to calumny."

## Of course it is. I have more than one as well. Everyone on ARJ-W knew
them and knew who the poster was.

> WHY can't you seem to follow your own advice and stop responding,
> instead of feeding Jabbers more & more bait?

> Do you really have that little self-control? Do you REALLY believe
> that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE ELSE to filter you out
> because you can't contain yourself? Do you really want to admit that
> you have so little of value to say that people SHOULD filter you out,
> as you invite the rec.pond folks to do because you won't stop
> responding to Jabriol?

## Responding to Jabriol on rec.ponds???? You mean marking the forgeries -
the posts he's forging headers on? I think I've responded to one of his
posts in the past 2 weeks.

> Are you so completely incapable of controlling yourself that you just
> HAVE to respond even when you would otherwise be winning the battle,
> even when it means risking your long-term relationships with those on
> rec.ponds who just DON'T WANT TO READ THIS BS WAR YOU HAVE GOING WITH
> JABRIOL?!

> Carol, stop!, again, instead of attacking me for pointing this out to
> you, GET SOME SELF-CONTROL AND STOP RESPONDING TO JABRIOL'S TAUNTS.
> Go back to rec.ponds and talk about PONDS ONLY and IGNORE EVERYTHING
> ELSE.

## I do talk about ponds there but now he's using my name and address to
post rude, crude insane replies to people. Have you checked in there to see
what he's doing?

If you want to talk about JW, do so ONLY ON THE JW GROUPS. If
> you have a news server issue, take it up with the NSP or post here
> *when appropriate*.

## What I need is a NSP who allows nym changing to STOP Jabriol from this
header forgery crap he's pulling again. This is the reason my old NSPs
(through my ISP) allowed me to nymshift on ARJ-W. He couldn't forge my
headers because he couldn't know what name I would use the next day -
however my sigfiles were the same old ones everyone knew, so all the
regulars knew me. :-) I was not sock-puppeting nor accused of
sock-puppeting.

> Then people might develop an ounce of respect for you, instead of
> buying into Jabriol's insistence that you are the problem (a point you
> seem to want to prove by continuing to egging things on, as ludicrous
> as it is.)
>
> -- DE
--
CR....
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"Sue Begg" > wrote in message
...
>
> You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
> winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
> the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
> --
> Sue Begg
===================
This makes sense and is what I now look forward to.... :-)))

Thank you Sue!

CR.........

[Reel McKoi]

Sue Begg wrote:

> You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
> winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
> the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.

# But nobody would pay attention to me. And this news group is all about me.

[Reel McKoi]

Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 21:33:44 -0400
From: Reel McKoi >
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.ponds,alt.free.newsservers
Subject: Re: Another Ponder left for the Pond of Beyond
References: <u4dhe.38140$0X6.21406@edtnps90>
>
<Dbohe.62078$HR1.53068@clgrps12>
>
> >
<bhBhe.116338$3V3.32680@edtnps89>
. com>
>
>
>
>
In-Reply-To: >
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Xref: x-privat.org rec.ponds:221232 alt.free.newsservers:15620


"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
> Sue Begg wrote:
>
> > You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
> > winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
> > the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
>
> # But nobody would pay attention to me. And this news group is all about
me.

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>If you would STOP RESPONDING to it --

Well DE, if she listens to you, I'll be surprised, oh wait! I won't notice,
I had to put Reel McKoi and Reel Mckoi, and I guess this Cracklin' now, in
my killfilter.

Some people just don't get the power of ignoring someone, which is so
powerful in cyberspace because any response is acknowledgement of a post
seen. Unlike little brother who can poke you and see you grimace. ;-) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[DE]

Sue Begg wrote:
> In message >, DE
> > writes
>
>> Do you really have that little self-control? Do you REALLY believe
>> that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE ELSE to filter you out
>> because you can't contain yourself? Do you really want to admit that
>> you have so little of value to say that people SHOULD filter you out,
>> as you invite the rec.pond folks to do because you won't stop
>> responding to Jabriol?
>
>
> It is something I told my son many years ago when he complained about
> his sister winding him up and picking on him - Do Not Respond.
>
> Because if you are not seeing any effect from what you do, it becomes a
> very pointless exercise and soon gets boring.
>
> You might swear at the screen and kick the cat (That would probably make
> some people happy !! ) but as long as it does not appear on the screen
> it does not count.
>
> You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
> winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
> the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.

Thanks, Sue, and sorry to all about the cross-post.

(Your sig line, re. your address, made me laugh!)

-- DE

[DE]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> "DE" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>If you would STOP RESPONDING to it -- instead of insisting that those
>>who don't like your perpetuating the problem should killfile you
>>(which BTW means that anyone on rec.ponds who doesn't want to read
>>this will also not read your pond-related posts) then they would have
>>lost interest long ago.
>
>
> ## They *can't* read my posts anymore because Jabriol is using the same
> name (forged headers again) and e-mail address wanting people to think I'm
> being rude in my pond/fish replies to them. What would you do? Change
> your nick? I can't since that is not allowed. Let people think his posts
> are mine? Have you been here to rec.ponds and seen how many idiotic
> messages he's posted using my name and address? I didn't think so........

I don't have to go there to see them; he's cross-posted them all here.

Didn't you notice that most people are filtering on cross-posts? That
means that they will see your messages if you post to the ONE
appropriate group, i.e. discuss ponding in rec.ponds and not include
any other group.

That aside, do you *really* believe that anyone could confuse your
posts and his, no matter what name he uses?
>
>
>>But no, you're a grown woman but you just can't stop responding to the
>>bait, keeping it going and going and going and going and going,
>>causing people to re-evaluate whose "fault" it is because you respond
>>nastily to all the people who've told you OVER AND OVER to just CLOSE
>>YOUR MOUTH ....
>
>
> ## Why do you keep getting involved? I bet you would feel differently if
> he was using your name and address to post his inane crap.

Listen, I'm in the midst of being mail-bombed by someone even more
wacko, who has a truly violent streak. That's not the point. The
point is that you are making it 1000 times *worse* by your responses;
please read what Sue had to write if you won't listen to me. (I'm
assuming she's a reg at rec.ponds.)

Why do I get involved? -- two reasons, first because I was asked to
(no, I'm not saying who) and second because I think that if people
avoid speaking up about such things, they are allowing abuse OF the
net by their complacency.
>
>
>>Is the idea of "self control" so completely beyond your comprehension
>>that you really want to keep this problem going, when your
>>participation is exactly what causes it to continue? Do you really
>>want to lose all your rec.ponds friends over this just because you
>>can't bite your tongue once in a while?
>
>
> ## Now, maybe you can tell me how to get around the problem of his forging
> my headers again. After all, you sure wouldn't want someone using your name
> and addy - trying to pass as YOU.

Oh, yes, it's never happened to me!

Really, Carol, it's happened to plenty of people. How did readers
know it wasn't me? In my case, because the forger deliberately used
profuse obscenity, so it was easy to spot by writing style. And there
is NOBODY who matters (to you) who would confuse Jabber's writing with
yours. For one thing, do you think that if they see a post on
rec.ponds that is not about ponds, that they want to read it at all no
matter WHO it's from? Second, there isn't a lot you two have in
common with writing style, in case you haven't noticed.

Give your rec.ponds friends more credit, and give them a break from
this BS, by just stopping responding to him COMPLETELY ... before you
lose what little understanding and tolerance people still have for you
in this situation.

If you don't believe me, ask THEM, and then accept their response ...
because I'll be there's not a person over there who wouldn't tell you
that if you would just stick to discussing ponding in rec.ponds and
COMPLETELY ignore the troll, they will read your posts and they'll be
able to handle him (by ignoring him too) and his little blackmail game
(in which he bizarrely thinks that trashing rec.ponds will somehow
hurt Shared Secrets) will have failed.

As it is now, you are LETTING HIM WIN every time you respond to him.
>
>
>>-- DE

[DE]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> "DE" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Uh, Carol, is this not from your actual sig?
>>
>>
>>>>"To persevere in one's duty and
>>>>be silent, is the best answer to calumny."
>
>
> ## Of course it is. I have more than one as well. Everyone on ARJ-W knew
> them and knew who the poster was.
>
>
>>WHY can't you seem to follow your own advice and stop responding,
>>instead of feeding Jabbers more & more bait?
>
>
>>Do you really have that little self-control? Do you REALLY believe
>>that it is the responsibility of EVERYONE ELSE to filter you out
>>because you can't contain yourself? Do you really want to admit that
>>you have so little of value to say that people SHOULD filter you out,
>>as you invite the rec.pond folks to do because you won't stop
>>responding to Jabriol?
>
>
> ## Responding to Jabriol on rec.ponds???? You mean marking the forgeries -
> the posts he's forging headers on? I think I've responded to one of his
> posts in the past 2 weeks.
>
>
>>Are you so completely incapable of controlling yourself that you just
>>HAVE to respond even when you would otherwise be winning the battle,
>>even when it means risking your long-term relationships with those on
>>rec.ponds who just DON'T WANT TO READ THIS BS WAR YOU HAVE GOING WITH
>>JABRIOL?!
>
>
>>Carol, stop!, again, instead of attacking me for pointing this out to
>>you, GET SOME SELF-CONTROL AND STOP RESPONDING TO JABRIOL'S TAUNTS.
>>Go back to rec.ponds and talk about PONDS ONLY and IGNORE EVERYTHING
>>ELSE.
>
>
> ## I do talk about ponds there but now he's using my name and address to
> post rude, crude insane replies to people. Have you checked in there to see
> what he's doing?
>
> If you want to talk about JW, do so ONLY ON THE JW GROUPS. If
>
>>you have a news server issue, take it up with the NSP or post here
>>*when appropriate*.
>
>
> ## What I need is a NSP who allows nym changing to STOP Jabriol from this
> header forgery crap he's pulling again. This is the reason my old NSPs
> (through my ISP) allowed me to nymshift on ARJ-W. He couldn't forge my
> headers because he couldn't know what name I would use the next day -
> however my sigfiles were the same old ones everyone knew, so all the
> regulars knew me. :-) I was not sock-puppeting nor accused of
> sock-puppeting.

NO.

What you need is to use one name (at least, one name and no more per
group.) Give people some credit for seeing the difference between a
spewing post signed with your nym, and a post that discusses ponds
signed with your nym. In fact, they don't care who wrote the former,
they only care that they want to read pond posts and YOU are now
posting non-pond posts.

The fewer such off-topic posts you respond to, the easier it will be
for people to ignore Jabbers and NOT have to ignore you too (in the
groups in which you want to post.)

Have a bit more consideration for people who are probably, in the
"cyber" sense, your friends for quite a while now. And stop thinking
they're too stupid to tell him from you.
>
>
>>Then people might develop an ounce of respect for you, instead of
>>buying into Jabriol's insistence that you are the problem (a point you
>>seem to want to prove by continuing to egging things on, as ludicrous
>>as it is.)
>>
>>-- DE

BTW, you hadn't noticed perhaps that he already lost one route of
access through Google Groups? The *sensible* thing is to find the
most egregious of his forgery posts (it's only a forgery if he
actually uses your complete ID, though, without alteration) and send
it off to the email address in his headers. Don't babble at them,
simply bring it to their attention.

And keep YOUR presence consistent, don't nym shift or else you just
make it harder for people to know it really is you. If you stick to
pond discussion on rec.ponds, though, it won't matter who you are,
will it? Do you think people on that group dislike Jabbers because
he's Jabriol and/or because he's forging/frogging you ... or because
he's dragged all this BS into their group? Why, he'd probably even be
tolerated if he actually discussed PONDS instead of just continuing
his campaign of disruption (and every time you post a non-ponds post
there, you're becoming part of that very disruption.)

-- DE

[DE]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> "Sue Begg" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
>>winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
>>the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
>>--
>>Sue Begg
>
> ===================
> This makes sense and is what I now look forward to.... :-)))
>
> Thank you Sue!
>
> CR.........
>

Well, then ....

THANK YOU, SUE!!!!

-- DE

[DE]

jabriol wrote:
> DE wrote:...
>>as you invite the rec.pond folks to do because you won't stop
>>responding to Jabriol?
>
>
> She cant, I told every one she can't and she wont. the only way, is for
> accounts to get canned.

Carol, I hope you read what Jabbers posted here, and consider if you
want him to be right for once.

Prove that you CAN, that he's not capable of provoking you to respond.

-- DE

[DE]

Reel McKoi wrote:
> Sue Begg wrote:
>
>> You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
>> winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you
>> saw the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
>
>
> # But nobody would pay attention to me. And this news group is all about
> me.

See?

Just to belabo(u)r the point:

Does *anyone* really believe this was written by Carol? Does Carol
really believe anyone is that dumb?

-- DE

[Reel McKoi]

"DE" > wrote in message
...
> Reel McKoi wrote:
> > "DE" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>If you would STOP RESPONDING to it -- instead of insisting that those
> >>who don't like your perpetuating the problem should killfile you
> >>(which BTW means that anyone on rec.ponds who doesn't want to read
> >>this will also not read your pond-related posts) then they would have
> >>lost interest long ago.
> >
> >
> > ## They *can't* read my posts anymore because Jabriol is using the same
> > name (forged headers again) and e-mail address wanting people to think
I'm
> > being rude in my pond/fish replies to them. What would you do? Change
> > your nick? I can't since that is not allowed. Let people think his
posts
> > are mine? Have you been here to rec.ponds and seen how many idiotic
> > messages he's posted using my name and address? I didn't think
so........
>
> I don't have to go there to see them; he's cross-posted them all here.
>
> Didn't you notice that most people are filtering on cross-posts? That
> means that they will see your messages if you post to the ONE
> appropriate group, i.e. discuss ponding in rec.ponds and not include
> any other group.
>
> That aside, do you *really* believe that anyone could confuse your
> posts and his, no matter what name he uses?
> >
> >
> >>But no, you're a grown woman but you just can't stop responding to the
> >>bait, keeping it going and going and going and going and going,
> >>causing people to re-evaluate whose "fault" it is because you respond
> >>nastily to all the people who've told you OVER AND OVER to just CLOSE
> >>YOUR MOUTH ....
> >
> >
> > ## Why do you keep getting involved? I bet you would feel differently
if
> > he was using your name and address to post his inane crap.
>
> Listen, I'm in the midst of being mail-bombed by someone even more
> wacko, who has a truly violent streak. That's not the point. The
> point is that you are making it 1000 times *worse* by your responses;
> please read what Sue had to write if you won't listen to me. (I'm
> assuming she's a reg at rec.ponds.)
>
> Why do I get involved? -- two reasons, first because I was asked to
> (no, I'm not saying who) and second because I think that if people
> avoid speaking up about such things, they are allowing abuse OF the
> net by their complacency.
> >
> >
> >>Is the idea of "self control" so completely beyond your comprehension
> >>that you really want to keep this problem going, when your
> >>participation is exactly what causes it to continue? Do you really
> >>want to lose all your rec.ponds friends over this just because you
> >>can't bite your tongue once in a while?
> >
> >
> > ## Now, maybe you can tell me how to get around the problem of his
forging
> > my headers again. After all, you sure wouldn't want someone using your
name
> > and addy - trying to pass as YOU.
>
> Oh, yes, it's never happened to me!
>
> Really, Carol, it's happened to plenty of people. How did readers
> know it wasn't me? In my case, because the forger deliberately used
> profuse obscenity, so it was easy to spot by writing style. And there
> is NOBODY who matters (to you) who would confuse Jabber's writing with
> yours. For one thing, do you think that if they see a post on
> rec.ponds that is not about ponds, that they want to read it at all no
> matter WHO it's from? Second, there isn't a lot you two have in
> common with writing style, in case you haven't noticed.
>
> Give your rec.ponds friends more credit, and give them a break from
> this BS, by just stopping responding to him COMPLETELY ... before you
> lose what little understanding and tolerance people still have for you
> in this situation.
>
> If you don't believe me, ask THEM, and then accept their response ...
> because I'll be there's not a person over there who wouldn't tell you
> that if you would just stick to discussing ponding in rec.ponds and
> COMPLETELY ignore the troll, they will read your posts and they'll be
> able to handle him (by ignoring him too) and his little blackmail game
> (in which he bizarrely thinks that trashing rec.ponds will somehow
> hurt Shared Secrets) will have failed.
>
> As it is now, you are LETTING HIM WIN every time you respond to him.
> >
> >
> >>-- DE
==========================
Thank you DE. I am taking the advice I'm getting from everyone. I do
appreciate the time you are all taking to advise me as well in dealing with
this problem. :-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"DE" > wrote in message
...
> Reel McKoi wrote:
> > "Sue Begg" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
> >>winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you saw
> >>the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
> >>--
> >>Sue Begg
> >
> > ===================
> > This makes sense and is what I now look forward to.... :-)))
> >
> > Thank you Sue!
> >
> > CR.........
> >
>
> Well, then ....
>
> THANK YOU, SUE!!!!
>
> -- DE
=======================
I'm sorry DE - I thank you BOTH! I thank you *all* in fact.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
"To persevere in one's duty and
be silent, is the best answer to calumny."
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"DE" > wrote in message
...
> Reel McKoi wrote:
> > Sue Begg wrote:
> >
> >> You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
> >> winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you
> >> saw the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
> >
> >
> > # But nobody would pay attention to me. And this news group is all about
> > me.
>
> See?
>
> Just to belabo(u)r the point:
>
> Does *anyone* really believe this was written by Carol? Does Carol
> really believe anyone is that dumb?
>
> -- DE
========================
Unfortunately DE,... some of them do seem to be that dumb on rec.ponds.

Or they're pretending to be dumb. :(
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"DE" > wrote in message
...
> BTW, you hadn't noticed perhaps that he already lost one route of
> access through Google Groups? The *sensible* thing is to find the
> most egregious of his forgery posts (it's only a forgery if he
> actually uses your complete ID, though, without alteration) and send
> it off to the email address in his headers. Don't babble at them,
> simply bring it to their attention.
>
> And keep YOUR presence consistent, don't nym shift or else you just
> make it harder for people to know it really is you. If you stick to
> pond discussion on rec.ponds, though, it won't matter who you are,
> will it?

## Probably not - to the majority of people there.

Do you think people on that group dislike Jabbers because
> he's Jabriol and/or because he's forging/frogging you ... or because
> he's dragged all this BS into their group?

## BINGO!

Why, he'd probably even be
> tolerated if he actually discussed PONDS instead of just continuing
> his campaign of disruption (and every time you post a non-ponds post
> there, you're becoming part of that very disruption.)

## It took me awhile to realize that......

> -- DE
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

"Maxx Pollare" > wrote in message
. ..
> The voice of "Reel McKoi" drifted in on the cyber-winds,
> from the sea of virtual chaos...
>
> >> WHY can't you seem to follow your own advice and stop responding,
> >> instead of feeding Jabbers more & more bait?
>
> > ## Responding to Jabriol on rec.ponds???? You mean marking the
> > forgeries - the posts he's forging headers on? I think I've
> > responded to one of his posts in the past 2 weeks.
>
>
> Just "flagging" those forgeries IS a responce...

$$$ OK! I see what you mean. :-)

> Go re-read what I wrote:
> >

$$$ I just reread it twice.

> --
> Maxx Pollare, a "small god" in his own mind...
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Sue Begg]

In message >, Reel McKoi
> writes
>
>"DE" > wrote in message
...
>> Reel McKoi wrote:
>> > Sue Begg wrote:
>> >
>> >> You would not be backing down and losing by this action, you would be
>> >> winning, because the frustration caused would be your reward as you
>> >> saw the posts become more and more frantic - seeking a response.
>> >
>> >
>> > # But nobody would pay attention to me. And this news group is all about
>> > me.
>>
>> See?
>>
>> Just to belabo(u)r the point:
>>
>> Does *anyone* really believe this was written by Carol? Does Carol
>> really believe anyone is that dumb?
>>
>> -- DE
>========================
>Unfortunately DE,... some of them do seem to be that dumb on rec.ponds.
>
>Or they're pretending to be dumb. :(

LOL To misquote Gerald Ratner (For those the other side of the pond he
was a jeweller who produced cheapo, crappo jewellery )
No-one ever lost money by underestimating the taste (or intelligence )
of the general public !!
--
Sue Begg
Remove my clothes to reply

Do not mess in the affairs of dragons - for
you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Lenny Nero]

DE said
>
> Give your rec.ponds friends more credit, and give them a break from
> this BS, by just stopping responding to him COMPLETELY ... before you
> lose what little understanding and tolerance people still have for you
> in this situation.
>
> If you don't believe me, ask THEM, and then accept their response ...
> because I'll be there's not a person over there who wouldn't tell you
> that if you would just stick to discussing ponding in rec.ponds and
> COMPLETELY ignore the troll, they will read your posts and they'll be
> able to handle him (by ignoring him too) and his little blackmail game
> (in which he bizarrely thinks that trashing rec.ponds will somehow
> hurt Shared Secrets) will have failed.
>
> As it is now, you are LETTING HIM WIN every time you respond to him.
> >
> >
> >>-- DE
>
>

This is really the truth, and if not, will at least prove the point
that your not as bad (p,k,b sort of thing) as others, if you Usenet
accounts do come into question.

L.