Pond Solar Heating?

[Greg Cooper]

Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
of shade and warms up slow.
I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than
thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next
to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if
nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who
knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one
would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water
up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure.
Crazy idea? what do people think?

Cheers.

[Reel McKoi]

"Greg Cooper" > wrote in message
news:6YAhe.55460$vN2.43371@clgrps13...
> Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
> of shade and warms up slow.
> I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than
> thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next
> to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if
> nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who
> knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one
> would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water
> up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure.
> Crazy idea? what do people think?
===========================
What about building a green house type building over it? A wood frame
covered with heavy greenhouse plastic perhaps? There's always moving SOUTH.
:-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Peter Breed]

Greg Cooper wrote:
> Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
> of shade and warms up slow.
> I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than
> thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next
> to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if
> nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who
> knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one
> would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water
> up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure.
> Crazy idea? what do people think?
>
> Cheers.
I thought about doing this myself however the thing that put me off was
that solar heating would deliver during the day. The consensus seemed to
be that fish like slow temperature change. My pond already has a 2-3 C
temperature difference between day and night, and increasing this would
likely stress the fish. Some Koi people claim that anything more that
0.5 C, a day is stressful at least for Koi. However my pond gets lots of
sun so it might work for a shaded pond, you'd effectively be getting the
sun without the sunlight (and associated algae)

On the practicalities you could have a heat exchanger in the pond and
circulate your heat transfer liquid (presumably water with some
additives) and so not have algae clog up the system.
From what I read there are two main types of solar collectors, the
swimming pool type which are designed to raise a large amount of water a
relatively small temperature would be appropriate, there are some aimed
at domestic water aimed at heating a small amount of water but heat it
to high temperatures - these are probably inappropriate.

Thinking on the fly - maybe if you had a relatively small tank which was
well insulated, heated to high temperature, and then pumped that
liquid to your heat exchanger in the pond, you could deliver heat in
controlled way throughout the day and night. Sounds expensive though :-(
and you'd need a fairly sophisticated control system.

I'd be very interested if this turned into anything more than a thought
experiment.
Good luck
Peter

[Phyllis and Jim Hurley]

Greg,

When we were in Miami, we used 1" black polypipe to make a solar heater.
It coiled on the roof and returned to the pond. The coils were flat on
the roof with a 2 x 4 and plummer's tape to keep them in place. The
pipe went back into the pond so there was a continuous column of water.
The filter ran it. The result was 88 degree winter water.

That was swimming pool water, so we had no growth of algae, etc. But,
check your regular pond piping....ours has only thin black coating on
the inside. I suspect yours would be similar.

The benefit of a small pipe and pond water would be low cost. The rolls
of pipe are cheap and the splices easy: inserts and hose clamps. OUrs
ran 6 years without a problem. We moved.

My concern for coils in BC would the freezes in the winter. It would be
hard to drain a coil. Might be that the coil would best be threaded
through holes in the 2 x 4 so that it could be removed and drained in
the fall.

You would probably want to monitor temp to see how the pond fares with
whatever rate of change you get. Afurther thought: how would hte plants
respond if the water were warm and the air cool? Probably irrelevant if
you are so shaded.

Good luck!

Jim

Greg Cooper wrote:
> Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
> of shade and warms up slow.
> I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than
> thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next
> to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if
> nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who
> knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one
> would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water
> up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure.
> Crazy idea? what do people think?
>
> Cheers.

[Reel McKoi]

Greg Cooper wrote:
> Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
> of shade and warms up slow.
> I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> for my finned friends.

Not going to work. Here is what you have to do. Put a dome over the
pond, and invite a bunch friend over to see a porn flick, have theem eat
lots of chile with red bean bake by a negro nanny. Then when they have
to fart; have them go to the dome and fart there. Your pond will get
warm very fast.

McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia

Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 09:13:59 -0400
From: Reel McKoi >
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"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
> Greg Cooper wrote:
> > Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
> > of shade and warms up slow.
> > I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> > collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> > for my finned friends.
>
> Not going to work. Here is what you have to do. Put a dome over the
> pond, and invite a bunch friend over to see a porn flick, have theem eat
> lots of chile with red bean bake by a negro nanny. Then when they have
> to fart; have them go to the dome and fart there. Your pond will get
> warm very fast.
>
> McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
> EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
> before flushing." :-)
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[Snooze]

"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
> This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia
>

Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their
entirety just to point out they are forgeries?
Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to
recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest don't
understand or care.

So far all you are doing is succeeding in increasing the noise level, so
stop! it's not helping anyone solve the problem, at best all it's doing is
encouraging people who have simple killfile rules to just add
into their list.

It won't be long until jabriol gets the idea of following up all your posts
and claiming they are forgeries as well.

-S

[Snooze]

"Greg Cooper" > wrote in message
news:6YAhe.55460$vN2.43371@clgrps13...
> Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot of
> shade and warms up slow.
> I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than thinking
> about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next to
> Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if nothing
> else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who knows
> maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one would need a
> water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water up through a
> collector would grow algae and clog I am sure.
> Crazy idea? what do people think?
>
> Cheers.

I've often toyed with that very idea myself. The water in the solar panels
would have to be a closed system. Circulating pond water through the solar
panels would just clog up the collectors with muck and algae, so the bottom
of the pond would need some kind of radiator/heat exchanger.

You didn't say how large your pond is, in a small pond you'd have to be
careful, it's fairly easy to turn a small pond into a hot tub if you run the
solar heater in the summer. I suspect that by the time you add in the cost
of a pump that can raise water a good 20 feet into the air, the solar
panels, the plumbing etc probably cheaper to just add a pond heater.

-S

[Reel McKoi]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia
> >
>
> Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their
> entirety just to point out they are forgeries?

## Wouldn't you? Or would you rather have people think you're a rude, crude
semi-literate troll?

> Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to
> recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest
don't
> understand or care.
> So far all you are doing is succeeding in increasing the noise level, so
> stop!

## You wouldn't mind him using YOUR name to post rude posts here,
pretending he's you?

it's not helping anyone solve the problem, at best all it's doing is
> encouraging people who have simple killfile rules to just add
> into their list.

> It won't be long until jabriol gets the idea of following up all your
posts
> and claiming they are forgeries as well.

## What do you suggest I do? Change my nick every day and have the trolls
start to whine about nym shifting again? After all, all I posted were ON
TOPIC posts here for years and years, until the troll followed me here....
do you suggest I start to use an anonymous remailer like so many others are
doing because of him?
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." :-)
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~Roy~]

$$~Roy~ wrote

On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:32:00 -0500, "Reel McKoi"
> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Snooze" > wrote in message
.. .
>===<>> "Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
>===<>> ...
>===<>> > This is another forged post from Jabriol/Antonio L Santana-Candia
>===<>> >
>===<>>
>===<>> Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their
>===<>> entirety just to point out they are forgeries?
>===<>
>===<>## Wouldn't you? Or would you rather have people think you're a rude, crude
>===<>semi-literate troll?

$$ Why not, call a spade a spade, you are afterall all of the above
and more!
>===<>
>===<>> Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to
>===<>> recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest
>===<>don't
>===<>> understand or care.
>===<> > So far all you are doing is succeeding in increasing the noise level, so
>===<>> stop!
>===<>
>===<>## You wouldn't mind him using YOUR name to post rude posts here,
>===<>pretending he's you?

$$ Others did not **** him off like you did and continue to
do.......you made your bed, now lie in it, you probably slept in
worse in your lousy life.
>===<>
>===<>it's not helping anyone solve the problem, at best all it's doing is
>===<>> encouraging people who have simple killfile rules to just add
>===<>> into their list.
>===<>
>===<>> It won't be long until jabriol gets the idea of following up all your
>===<>posts
>===<>> and claiming they are forgeries as well.
>===<>
>===<>## What do you suggest I do? Change my nick every day and have the trolls
>===<>start to whine about nym shifting again? After all, all I posted were ON
>===<>TOPIC posts here for years and years, until the troll followed me here....
>===<>do you suggest I start to use an anonymous remailer like so many others are
>===<>doing because of him?

$$ YOU could put a rope around your neck and go plow your husbands
mary ja wanna crop and portray the jackass that you truly are in a
more realistic manner.....

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[Reel McKoi]

Snooze wrote:

>
> Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries in their
> entirety just to point out they are forgeries?
> Those of us that can read and understand usenet headers well enough to
> recognize forgeries can do so with out you pointing them out. The rest don't
> understand or care.

[Greg Cooper]

Snooze wrote:
>
> I've often toyed with that very idea myself. The water in the solar panels
> would have to be a closed system. Circulating pond water through the solar
> panels would just clog up the collectors with muck and algae, so the bottom
> of the pond would need some kind of radiator/heat exchanger.
>
> You didn't say how large your pond is, in a small pond you'd have to be
> careful, it's fairly easy to turn a small pond into a hot tub if you run the
> solar heater in the summer. I suspect that by the time you add in the cost
> of a pump that can raise water a good 20 feet into the air, the solar
> panels, the plumbing etc probably cheaper to just add a pond heater.

Its about 1000 Gal.
Yes I expect you are right that the pump and piping required would not
make this a cheap project. That and our local does not get a lot of
consistent sun in the winter when you need the heat.

[Mark Swinkels]

The pump requirements are not that extreme. Since the piping up to the roof
and back is a closed system the pump doesn't need enough head to get to the
roof. The water on its way up to the roof is balanced by the water on its
way back down. The pump only has to overcome the dynamic head caused by
friction losses in the pipe. The system would have to be primed by
something like a garden hose. The black poly pipe is very cheap. No heat
exchanger is needed, black poly will normally only grow a thin biofilm on
the inside when used with pond water. You want to be able to turn it off
when the sun isn't shining otherwise it makes a great radiator to cool your
pond.

I built a system like this when I was a teenager to warm our backyard above
ground pool in the spring. Just a long coil of black poly pipe on a 4x4
piece of plywood.

-- Mark


"Greg Cooper" > wrote in message
news:4uZhe.118883$3V3.46877@edtnps89...
> Snooze wrote:
>>
>> I've often toyed with that very idea myself. The water in the solar
>> panels would have to be a closed system. Circulating pond water through
>> the solar panels would just clog up the collectors with muck and algae,
>> so the bottom of the pond would need some kind of radiator/heat
>> exchanger.
>>
>> You didn't say how large your pond is, in a small pond you'd have to be
>> careful, it's fairly easy to turn a small pond into a hot tub if you run
>> the solar heater in the summer. I suspect that by the time you add in
>> the cost of a pump that can raise water a good 20 feet into the air, the
>> solar panels, the plumbing etc probably cheaper to just add a pond
>> heater.
>
> Its about 1000 Gal.
> Yes I expect you are right that the pump and piping required would not
> make this a cheap project. That and our local does not get a lot of
> consistent sun in the winter when you need the heat.
>

[Reel McKoi]

"Maxx Pollare" > wrote in message
. ..
> The voice of "Reel McKoi" drifted in on the cyber-winds,
> from the sea of virtual chaos...
>
> >> Do you honestly feel the need to quote every one of his forgeries
> >> in their entirety just to point out they are forgeries?
> >
> > ## Wouldn't you? Or would you rather have people think you're a
> > rude, crude semi-literate troll?
>
> No, I rather let 7+ years of prior post speak for themselves rather
> then add to the current mess....
>
> So for now, where's your hands Carol?
> Maxx Pollare, a "small god" in his own mind...
=====================================
I'm sitting on them. :-)))
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "To persevere in one's duty and
be silent, is the best answer to calumny."
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Greg Cooper]

Mark Swinkels wrote:

> The pump requirements are not that extreme. Since the piping up to the roof
> and back is a closed system the pump doesn't need enough head to get to the
> roof. The water on its way up to the roof is balanced by the water on its
> way back down. The pump only has to overcome the dynamic head caused by
> friction losses in the pipe. The system would have to be primed by
> something like a garden hose.

Good point about being a closed "balenced" system. I had not thought
about that.

[BenignVanilla]

"Greg Cooper" > wrote in message
news:6YAhe.55460$vN2.43371@clgrps13...
> Ok I know that "Spring has sprung" and all - but my pond does get a lot
> of shade and warms up slow.
> I have wondered about the idea of a using solar heat from a roof top
> collector to warm the pond to a better temp and extend the active season
> for my finned friends. Not that I have actually done more than
> thinking about it - living is coastal BC is about the worst place next
> to Washington state for hours of sun shine anyway. But I thought if
> nothing else maybe it would be an interesting thought experiment and who
> knows maybe someone out there has tried it. I am thinking that one
> would need a water/water heat exchanger because circulating pond water
> up through a collector would grow algae and clog I am sure.
> Crazy idea? what do people think?
>
> Cheers.

I just purchased a solar heater for my pool. As soon as it is up and
running, I'll post some results. It may be a good way to go for you.


--
BV
http://www.iheartmypond.com

[Greg Cooper]

BenignVanilla wrote:
>
>
> I just purchased a solar heater for my pool. As soon as it is up and
> running, I'll post some results. It may be a good way to go for you.
>
>

Thanks - it will be intersting to hear.
Cheers.

[[email protected]]

i was able to heat my pond to about 20=B0C about a month ago - there was
a heatwave in early spring. about 25-30=B0C every day for a week. i
pumped the pond water through garden hose. it would come out about 1=B0C
warmer when it finished gowing all the way through. i used about 50ft
of regular garden hose.

as soon as the heatwave passed, this did the opposite, it cooled water
not heated it. in this case it wasn't as much solar as it was a heat
exchanger. heat exchangers don't work when there's no heat!

i left the pond alone and it warmed up on it's own. the fish are all
happy and the plants are doing good.

i would suggest errecting a greenhouse over your pond and heating the
air inside, this will probably be best during the beggining and end of
the season. electrical conduit could make a frame and you can use
vapour barrier as a plastic instead of "greenhouse" plastic - that
stuff costs a fortune around here.

whatever you do, don't get electrical heaters for a big pond unless you
can afford very high electrical bills. my 300watt heater can maintain a
temperature of 75=B0F in my 125g tropical pond that has greenhouse over
it. 75-80=B0F is about 5-10=B0F warmer than the air during daytime in
Ottawa, Ontario. keep in mind that's not much water and it's well
insulated on all sides.

if you are really made of money, just get someone to install a natural
gas heater for you, the type that's used on swimming pools. several
thousand dollars... gah.

[Courageous]

>if you are really made of money, just get someone to install a natural
>gas heater for you, the type that's used on swimming pools. several
>thousand dollars... gah.

I'd think those tankless heaters, for $700, would work pretty well...

I'd be careful, though. Water comes out of them at very hot temperatures.

Reminds me of the Koi Shop in Del Mar that is directly over a sushi store.

My wife has a photo of that somewhere. :)

C//