Basic Water

[Guido]

I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
here and see what some of the possibilities are.

I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not having
one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic plants,
and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some neon tetra
and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that they required
approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of about 6.5, so I
went to the store and bought a test kit to check the pH and lo and
behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some pHAdjust to bring
the level down and let it mix around with the filter for a bit (carbon
and stuff is in there) and tested it a little while later to check if it
had come down... nope. Ok, so I pulled out the carbon and sponge from
the filter and tried again. This time it came down to 7.2. Alright,
we're on a roll. I let it sit with the intention of lowering it again
later, and put the carbon in in the meantime. Next time I checked it
before I started and the pH is back up to 7.4.

So, what's the deal? This tank doesn't have fish in it or anything else
that should raise the pH that I can tell... so why is it acting like
this? The filter shouldn't raise the pH, should it?

Thanks for any info,

Gord

[Guido]

Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at about
7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....

Guido wrote:
> I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
> here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>
> I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not having
> one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic plants,
> and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some neon tetra
> and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that they required
> approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of about 6.5, so I
> went to the store and bought a test kit to check the pH and lo and
> behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some pHAdjust to bring
> the level down and let it mix around with the filter for a bit (carbon
> and stuff is in there) and tested it a little while later to check if it
> had come down... nope. Ok, so I pulled out the carbon and sponge from
> the filter and tried again. This time it came down to 7.2. Alright,
> we're on a roll. I let it sit with the intention of lowering it again
> later, and put the carbon in in the meantime. Next time I checked it
> before I started and the pH is back up to 7.4.
>
> So, what's the deal? This tank doesn't have fish in it or anything else
> that should raise the pH that I can tell... so why is it acting like
> this? The filter shouldn't raise the pH, should it?
>
> Thanks for any info,
>
> Gord

[NetMax]

"Guido" > wrote in message
.. .
> Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at
> about 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>
> Guido wrote:
>> I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
>> here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>>
>> I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not
>> having one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic
>> plants, and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some
>> neon tetra and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that
>> they required approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of
>> about 6.5, so I went to the store and bought a test kit to check the
>> pH and lo and behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some
>> pHAdjust

Stop there. Unless you plan on breeding Neons, change all your water
back to the tap water condition by refilling your tank. There is nothing
wrong with 7.6pH and Neon tetras. You are setting yourself up for a lot
of unneccesary headache and expense.

The technical reason for your observation is that the water's buffer is
resisting the acidifying affect of the pH adjust, which does not act
instantly. Take a cue from mother nature and go with the flow... 7.6pH.

You can also check to see what your local LFS Neons are kept at. Don't
be too surprised.
--
www.NetMax.tk

>>
>> Thanks for any info,
>>
>> Gord

[Guido]

NetMax wrote:
> "Guido" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at
>>about 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>>
>>Guido wrote:
>>
>>>I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
>>>here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>>>
>>>I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not
>>>having one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic
>>>plants, and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some
>>>neon tetra and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that
>>>they required approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of
>>>about 6.5, so I went to the store and bought a test kit to check the
>>>pH and lo and behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some
>>>pHAdjust
>
>
> Stop there. Unless you plan on breeding Neons, change all your water
> back to the tap water condition by refilling your tank. There is nothing
> wrong with 7.6pH and Neon tetras. You are setting yourself up for a lot
> of unneccesary headache and expense.
>
> The technical reason for your observation is that the water's buffer is
> resisting the acidifying affect of the pH adjust, which does not act
> instantly. Take a cue from mother nature and go with the flow... 7.6pH.
>
> You can also check to see what your local LFS Neons are kept at. Don't
> be too surprised.

Alright, makes sense... should've done more research on Google (which
I'm doing now...) before fiddling with the pH. Is it really necessary
to change the water if I'm not going to be adding fish for another
couple of days? I'd rather not lug the buckets if I don't have to!

Thanks a million for pointing me in the right direction!

Gord

[blank]

"Guido" > wrote
>Is it really necessary
> to change the water if I'm not going to be adding fish for another
> couple of days? I'd rather not lug the buckets if I don't have to!
>
Mate, if you're already reluctant to "lug the buckets" for a 33 gal tank,
then I predict you will give the hobby up within six months.

[Dick]

On Wed, 18 May 2005 00:42:58 -0400, Guido
> wrote:

>NetMax wrote:
>> "Guido" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>>Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at
>>>about 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>>>
>>>Guido wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
>>>>here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>>>>
>>>>I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not
>>>>having one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic
>>>>plants, and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some
>>>>neon tetra and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that
>>>>they required approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of
>>>>about 6.5, so I went to the store and bought a test kit to check the
>>>>pH and lo and behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some
>>>>pHAdjust
>>
>>
>> Stop there. Unless you plan on breeding Neons, change all your water
>> back to the tap water condition by refilling your tank. There is nothing
>> wrong with 7.6pH and Neon tetras. You are setting yourself up for a lot
>> of unneccesary headache and expense.
>>
>> The technical reason for your observation is that the water's buffer is
>> resisting the acidifying affect of the pH adjust, which does not act
>> instantly. Take a cue from mother nature and go with the flow... 7.6pH.
>>
>> You can also check to see what your local LFS Neons are kept at. Don't
>> be too surprised.
>
>Alright, makes sense... should've done more research on Google (which
>I'm doing now...) before fiddling with the pH. Is it really necessary
>to change the water if I'm not going to be adding fish for another
>couple of days? I'd rather not lug the buckets if I don't have to!
>
>Thanks a million for pointing me in the right direction!
>
>Gord


Get a "Gravel Vac" and no more bucket brigades.

dick

[Elaine T]

Guido wrote:
> NetMax wrote:
>
>> "Guido" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>> Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at
>>> about 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>>>
>>> Guido wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might
>>>> ask here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not
>>>> having one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs),
>>>> plastic plants, and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out
>>>> with some neon tetra and did a lot of reading up about them, and
>>>> noticed that they required approximately a 25 degree water temp and
>>>> a max pH of about 6.5, so I went to the store and bought a test kit
>>>> to check the pH and lo and behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I
>>>> added some pHAdjust
>>
>>
>>
>> Stop there. Unless you plan on breeding Neons, change all your water
>> back to the tap water condition by refilling your tank. There is
>> nothing wrong with 7.6pH and Neon tetras. You are setting yourself up
>> for a lot of unneccesary headache and expense.
>>
>> The technical reason for your observation is that the water's buffer
>> is resisting the acidifying affect of the pH adjust, which does not
>> act instantly. Take a cue from mother nature and go with the flow...
>> 7.6pH.
>>
>> You can also check to see what your local LFS Neons are kept at.
>> Don't be too surprised.
>
>
> Alright, makes sense... should've done more research on Google (which
> I'm doing now...) before fiddling with the pH. Is it really necessary
> to change the water if I'm not going to be adding fish for another
> couple of days? I'd rather not lug the buckets if I don't have to!
>
> Thanks a million for pointing me in the right direction!
>
> Gord

It's better to change the water. Most pH lowering products have
phosphoric acid in them and can lead to a rather impressive algae bloom
when combined with a bit of ammonia from your fish.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

[Guido]

Elaine T wrote:
> Guido wrote:
>
>> NetMax wrote:
>>
>>> "Guido" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>
>>>> Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at
>>>> about 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>>>>
>>>> Guido wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might
>>>>> ask here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not
>>>>> having one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs),
>>>>> plastic plants, and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out
>>>>> with some neon tetra and did a lot of reading up about them, and
>>>>> noticed that they required approximately a 25 degree water temp and
>>>>> a max pH of about 6.5, so I went to the store and bought a test kit
>>>>> to check the pH and lo and behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So
>>>>> I added some pHAdjust
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stop there. Unless you plan on breeding Neons, change all your water
>>> back to the tap water condition by refilling your tank. There is
>>> nothing wrong with 7.6pH and Neon tetras. You are setting yourself
>>> up for a lot of unneccesary headache and expense.
>>>
>>> The technical reason for your observation is that the water's buffer
>>> is resisting the acidifying affect of the pH adjust, which does not
>>> act instantly. Take a cue from mother nature and go with the flow...
>>> 7.6pH.
>>>
>>> You can also check to see what your local LFS Neons are kept at.
>>> Don't be too surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alright, makes sense... should've done more research on Google (which
>> I'm doing now...) before fiddling with the pH. Is it really necessary
>> to change the water if I'm not going to be adding fish for another
>> couple of days? I'd rather not lug the buckets if I don't have to!
>>
>> Thanks a million for pointing me in the right direction!
>>
>> Gord
>
>
> It's better to change the water. Most pH lowering products have
> phosphoric acid in them and can lead to a rather impressive algae bloom
> when combined with a bit of ammonia from your fish.
>
Got it, thanks for the help.

[Daniel Morrow]

Most tropical fish do fine in water at any reasonable ph. It is not
recommended to use ph uppers or downers because when you do the inevitable
water changes that new water will cause the tank ph to change drastically
towards the end of the ph spectrum that your tank water is at. Test kits
vary with results from brand to brand and are really more of a road-sign or
a basic indicator of what's going on. The only drawbacks to you letting the
water stay at it's out of faucet state (if you have chloramines in your tap
water you must dechlormine it for sure) that I know of is that fish kept in
a different ph water than naturally accustomed to those fish will not breed.
In extreme cases which shouldn't apply here - The fish will have a weaker
immune system and may go into shock and possibly die. You shouldn't have to
worry about that though. Good luck - and most if not all I have said here is
information I have learned on this group from people such as elaine t and
netmax, later!
"Guido" > wrote in message
.. .
> Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at about
> 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>
> Guido wrote:
> > I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
> > here and see what some of the possibilities are.
> >
> > I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not having
> > one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic plants,
> > and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some neon tetra
> > and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that they required
> > approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of about 6.5, so I
> > went to the store and bought a test kit to check the pH and lo and
> > behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some pHAdjust to bring
> > the level down and let it mix around with the filter for a bit (carbon
> > and stuff is in there) and tested it a little while later to check if it
> > had come down... nope. Ok, so I pulled out the carbon and sponge from
> > the filter and tried again. This time it came down to 7.2. Alright,
> > we're on a roll. I let it sit with the intention of lowering it again
> > later, and put the carbon in in the meantime. Next time I checked it
> > before I started and the pH is back up to 7.4.
> >
> > So, what's the deal? This tank doesn't have fish in it or anything else
> > that should raise the pH that I can tell... so why is it acting like
> > this? The filter shouldn't raise the pH, should it?
> >
> > Thanks for any info,
> >
> > Gord

[Dick]

On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:15:02 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>Most tropical fish do fine in water at any reasonable ph. It is not
>recommended to use ph uppers or downers because when you do the inevitable
>water changes that new water will cause the tank ph to change drastically
>towards the end of the ph spectrum that your tank water is at. Test kits
>vary with results from brand to brand and are really more of a road-sign or
>a basic indicator of what's going on. The only drawbacks to you letting the
>water stay at it's out of faucet state (if you have chloramines in your tap
>water you must dechlormine it for sure) that I know of is that fish kept in
>a different ph water than naturally accustomed to those fish will not breed.
>In extreme cases which shouldn't apply here - The fish will have a weaker
>immune system and may go into shock and possibly die. You shouldn't have to
>worry about that though. Good luck - and most if not all I have said here is
>information I have learned on this group from people such as elaine t and
>netmax, later!

I agree that lots of fish do fine in various pH levels. My tap water
is 7.8. I have 14 species of fish. Especially hard to adjust pH
while doing partial changes in large tanks, e.g. 75 gallons. I quit
trying to adjust after killing several fish when I put too much
chemical in and the tank went acid.

It seems to me one way to lessen any tap water problems is do more
frequent and lower percentage water changes, e.g. 5% daily. This
procedure would dilute the tap water impact and still change 35%
weekly.

As to introducing new fish, I have ordered almost all my fish through
the internet. I have no idea what the water conditions that the fish
are coming from. I just add tank water to the open bags slowly and
net the fish out into my tanks. Never been a problem

dick
..
>"Guido" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at about
>> 7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>>
>> Guido wrote:
>> > I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
>> > here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>> >
>> > I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not having
>> > one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic plants,
>> > and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some neon tetra
>> > and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that they required
>> > approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of about 6.5, so I
>> > went to the store and bought a test kit to check the pH and lo and
>> > behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some pHAdjust to bring
>> > the level down and let it mix around with the filter for a bit (carbon
>> > and stuff is in there) and tested it a little while later to check if it
>> > had come down... nope. Ok, so I pulled out the carbon and sponge from
>> > the filter and tried again. This time it came down to 7.2. Alright,
>> > we're on a roll. I let it sit with the intention of lowering it again
>> > later, and put the carbon in in the meantime. Next time I checked it
>> > before I started and the pH is back up to 7.4.
>> >
>> > So, what's the deal? This tank doesn't have fish in it or anything else
>> > that should raise the pH that I can tell... so why is it acting like
>> > this? The filter shouldn't raise the pH, should it?
>> >
>> > Thanks for any info,
>> >
>> > Gord
>
>

[Daniel Morrow]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:15:02 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Most tropical fish do fine in water at any reasonable ph. It is not
> >recommended to use ph uppers or downers because when you do the
inevitable
> >water changes that new water will cause the tank ph to change drastically
> >towards the end of the ph spectrum that your tank water is at. Test kits
> >vary with results from brand to brand and are really more of a road-sign
or
> >a basic indicator of what's going on. The only drawbacks to you letting
the
> >water stay at it's out of faucet state (if you have chloramines in your
tap
> >water you must dechlormine it for sure) that I know of is that fish kept
in
> >a different ph water than naturally accustomed to those fish will not
breed.
> >In extreme cases which shouldn't apply here - The fish will have a weaker
> >immune system and may go into shock and possibly die. You shouldn't have
to
> >worry about that though. Good luck - and most if not all I have said here
is
> >information I have learned on this group from people such as elaine t and
> >netmax, later!
>
> I agree that lots of fish do fine in various pH levels. My tap water
> is 7.8. I have 14 species of fish. Especially hard to adjust pH
> while doing partial changes in large tanks, e.g. 75 gallons. I quit
> trying to adjust after killing several fish when I put too much
> chemical in and the tank went acid.
>
> It seems to me one way to lessen any tap water problems is do more
> frequent and lower percentage water changes, e.g. 5% daily. This
> procedure would dilute the tap water impact and still change 35%
> weekly.
>
> As to introducing new fish, I have ordered almost all my fish through
> the internet. I have no idea what the water conditions that the fish
> are coming from. I just add tank water to the open bags slowly and
> net the fish out into my tanks. Never been a problem
>
> dick


That is a pretty cool idea - add water to the bag of new fish (what I do to)
and when they're ready net them into the tank (never did that yet). I bet
this is almost as safe as using a quarantine tank if not safer because the
original new fish is kept in a lesser stress situation. Later, and
interesting idea dick!

[Guido]

Sounds like a plan to me... thanks a million for the help guys! I went
to the lfs yesterday and ordered one of those Python gadgets after my
friend showed me how much easier it makes things for changing water...

Thanks again,
Gord

Dick wrote:
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:15:02 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Most tropical fish do fine in water at any reasonable ph. It is not
>>recommended to use ph uppers or downers because when you do the inevitable
>>water changes that new water will cause the tank ph to change drastically
>>towards the end of the ph spectrum that your tank water is at. Test kits
>>vary with results from brand to brand and are really more of a road-sign or
>>a basic indicator of what's going on. The only drawbacks to you letting the
>>water stay at it's out of faucet state (if you have chloramines in your tap
>>water you must dechlormine it for sure) that I know of is that fish kept in
>>a different ph water than naturally accustomed to those fish will not breed.
>>In extreme cases which shouldn't apply here - The fish will have a weaker
>>immune system and may go into shock and possibly die. You shouldn't have to
>>worry about that though. Good luck - and most if not all I have said here is
>>information I have learned on this group from people such as elaine t and
>>netmax, later!
>
>
> I agree that lots of fish do fine in various pH levels. My tap water
> is 7.8. I have 14 species of fish. Especially hard to adjust pH
> while doing partial changes in large tanks, e.g. 75 gallons. I quit
> trying to adjust after killing several fish when I put too much
> chemical in and the tank went acid.
>
> It seems to me one way to lessen any tap water problems is do more
> frequent and lower percentage water changes, e.g. 5% daily. This
> procedure would dilute the tap water impact and still change 35%
> weekly.
>
> As to introducing new fish, I have ordered almost all my fish through
> the internet. I have no idea what the water conditions that the fish
> are coming from. I just add tank water to the open bags slowly and
> net the fish out into my tanks. Never been a problem
>
> dick
> .
>
>>"Guido" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>>>Another note, I just checked my tapwater and it's also basic... at about
>>>7.6, so chances are this is why it's starting there....
>>>
>>>Guido wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure where the problem is coming from so I thought I might ask
>>>>here and see what some of the possibilities are.
>>>>
>>>>I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not having
>>>>one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic plants,
>>>>and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some neon tetra
>>>>and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that they required
>>>>approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of about 6.5, so I
>>>>went to the store and bought a test kit to check the pH and lo and
>>>>behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some pHAdjust to bring
>>>>the level down and let it mix around with the filter for a bit (carbon
>>>>and stuff is in there) and tested it a little while later to check if it
>>>>had come down... nope. Ok, so I pulled out the carbon and sponge from
>>>>the filter and tried again. This time it came down to 7.2. Alright,
>>>>we're on a roll. I let it sit with the intention of lowering it again
>>>>later, and put the carbon in in the meantime. Next time I checked it
>>>>before I started and the pH is back up to 7.4.
>>>>
>>>>So, what's the deal? This tank doesn't have fish in it or anything else
>>>>that should raise the pH that I can tell... so why is it acting like
>>>>this? The filter shouldn't raise the pH, should it?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for any info,
>>>>
>>>>Gord
>>
>>
>

[Gill Passman]

"Daniel Morrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:15:02 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Most tropical fish do fine in water at any reasonable ph. It is not
> > >recommended to use ph uppers or downers because when you do the
> inevitable
> > >water changes that new water will cause the tank ph to change
drastically
> > >towards the end of the ph spectrum that your tank water is at. Test
kits
> > >vary with results from brand to brand and are really more of a
road-sign
> or
> > >a basic indicator of what's going on. The only drawbacks to you letting
> the
> > >water stay at it's out of faucet state (if you have chloramines in your
> tap
> > >water you must dechlormine it for sure) that I know of is that fish
kept
> in
> > >a different ph water than naturally accustomed to those fish will not
> breed.
> > >In extreme cases which shouldn't apply here - The fish will have a
weaker
> > >immune system and may go into shock and possibly die. You shouldn't
have
> to
> > >worry about that though. Good luck - and most if not all I have said
here
> is
> > >information I have learned on this group from people such as elaine t
and
> > >netmax, later!
> >
> > I agree that lots of fish do fine in various pH levels. My tap water
> > is 7.8. I have 14 species of fish. Especially hard to adjust pH
> > while doing partial changes in large tanks, e.g. 75 gallons. I quit
> > trying to adjust after killing several fish when I put too much
> > chemical in and the tank went acid.
> >
> > It seems to me one way to lessen any tap water problems is do more
> > frequent and lower percentage water changes, e.g. 5% daily. This
> > procedure would dilute the tap water impact and still change 35%
> > weekly.
> >
> > As to introducing new fish, I have ordered almost all my fish through
> > the internet. I have no idea what the water conditions that the fish
> > are coming from. I just add tank water to the open bags slowly and
> > net the fish out into my tanks. Never been a problem
> >
> > dick
>
>
> That is a pretty cool idea - add water to the bag of new fish (what I do
to)
> and when they're ready net them into the tank (never did that yet). I bet
> this is almost as safe as using a quarantine tank if not safer because the
> original new fish is kept in a lesser stress situation. Later, and
> interesting idea dick!
>
>
I used to just put all the water in when releasing fish until I introduced
Ich into my tank by doing just that. Now, I acclimatise them, as per Dick,
and also net them out....It was interesting doing that with a Plec stuck
firmly onto the bag though

Gill

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Guido wrote:


> I'm just setting up a new 33 gal aquarium after many years of not having
> one, and I've got it set up with gravel (from the lfs), plastic plants,

Yuk

> and an Aquaclear 250. I'm planning on starting out with some neon tetra
> and did a lot of reading up about them, and noticed that they required
> approximately a 25 degree water temp and a max pH of about 6.5,

More important is the hardness. The pH of your tap water will lower by
itself in the tank, as CO2 gets dissolved from air. For Tetras and
similar black water fish you want soft water hardness less than 10
degrees, such water will usually turn acidic.

> so I
> went to the store and bought a test kit to check the pH and lo and
> behold it's about 7.6 on the scale. So I added some pHAdjust

Don't do that, some of these products use phosphate as buffering
substance which will give you algae problems. To make tank water ready
for black water fish, filter it over sphagnum peat (without fertiliser,
get it cheap from your garden centre or expensive from your LFS). This
will add humic acids to the water which lower the pH and protect the
fish skin against disease.

> to bring
> the level down and let it mix around with the filter for a bit (carbon
> and stuff is in there) and tested it a little while later to check if it
> had come down... nope. Ok, so I pulled out the carbon

You mean activated charcoal? Leave it out, you only need it to remove
medication from a tank, other than that it is just another settling
ground for filter bacteria, and too expensive for that.

> So, what's the deal? This tank doesn't have fish in it or anything else
> that should raise the pH that I can tell

Ask your water supply company for an analysis of your tab water and
choose your fish according to that, its much easier than trying to
adjust the water to the fish. As mentioned, hardness is particular
important, everything else follows from that.

Unless you want to keep plant-munching fish, use real plants in the
tank, they have an important biologicl role to play. "Cycle" the filter,
fishless cycling is preferred (google for exact procedure). Add fish
once the nitrite peak is over.

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Gill Passman wrote:

> I used to just put all the water in when releasing fish until I introduced
> Ich into my tank by doing just that. Now, I acclimatise them, as per Dick,
> and also net them out....It was interesting doing that with a Plec stuck
> firmly onto the bag though

Rather than neting them after aclimatisation I pour the water out of the
bag into a bucket and then the fish into the tank. Easier, quicker and
hence probably less stress for the fish.

[Dick]

On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:36:53 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> wrote:

>Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> I used to just put all the water in when releasing fish until I introduced
>> Ich into my tank by doing just that. Now, I acclimatise them, as per Dick,
>> and also net them out....It was interesting doing that with a Plec stuck
>> firmly onto the bag though
>
>Rather than neting them after aclimatisation I pour the water out of the
>bag into a bucket and then the fish into the tank. Easier, quicker and
>hence probably less stress for the fish.

I didn't describe my procedure in detail. After slowly diluting the
water in the bag while it floats in the tank water with lights off.
I then pour the contents through the fish net with the net resting on
the edge of a bucket. If the bag is large and holds several fish I
empty the whole thing into a bucket and net the fish one at a time.

I get all my fish delivered by overnight mail service. It is amazing
they arrive in such good condition. It is such a relief to get them
into their new home and see them recover.

dick

[Jim Anderson]

In article >,
says...

> On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:36:53 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > wrote:
>
> >Gill Passman wrote:
> >
> >> I used to just put all the water in when releasing fish until I introduced
> >> Ich into my tank by doing just that. Now, I acclimatise them, as per Dick,
> >> and also net them out....It was interesting doing that with a Plec stuck
> >> firmly onto the bag though
> >
> >Rather than neting them after aclimatisation I pour the water out of the
> >bag into a bucket and then the fish into the tank. Easier, quicker and
> >hence probably less stress for the fish.
>
> I didn't describe my procedure in detail. After slowly diluting the
> water in the bag while it floats in the tank water with lights off.
> I then pour the contents through the fish net with the net resting on
> the edge of a bucket. If the bag is large and holds several fish I
> empty the whole thing into a bucket and net the fish one at a time.
>
> I get all my fish delivered by overnight mail service. It is amazing
> they arrive in such good condition. It is such a relief to get them
> into their new home and see them recover.
>
> dick
>

Who do you order fish from online? Looking for a reputable dealer.

--
Jim Anderson
( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger

[Daniel Morrow]

"Jim Anderson" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
>
> > On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:36:53 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Gill Passman wrote:
> > >
> > >> I used to just put all the water in when releasing fish until I
introduced
> > >> Ich into my tank by doing just that. Now, I acclimatise them, as per
Dick,
> > >> and also net them out....It was interesting doing that with a Plec
stuck
> > >> firmly onto the bag though
> > >
> > >Rather than neting them after aclimatisation I pour the water out of
the
> > >bag into a bucket and then the fish into the tank. Easier, quicker and
> > >hence probably less stress for the fish.
> >
> > I didn't describe my procedure in detail. After slowly diluting the
> > water in the bag while it floats in the tank water with lights off.
> > I then pour the contents through the fish net with the net resting on
> > the edge of a bucket. If the bag is large and holds several fish I
> > empty the whole thing into a bucket and net the fish one at a time.
> >
> > I get all my fish delivered by overnight mail service. It is amazing
> > they arrive in such good condition. It is such a relief to get them
> > into their new home and see them recover.
> >
> > dick
> >
>
> Who do you order fish from online? Looking for a reputable dealer.
>
> --
> Jim Anderson
> ( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger

That pet place ( http://www.thatpetplace.com ) should be reputable but give
dick's preferences first dibs.

[Dick]

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:21:12 -0700, "Daniel Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Jim Anderson" > wrote in message
t...
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>
>> > On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:36:53 +0200, Dr Engelbert Buxbaum
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Gill Passman wrote:
>> >
>> > I get all my fish delivered by overnight mail service. It is amazing
>> > they arrive in such good condition. It is such a relief to get them
>> > into their new home and see them recover.
>> >
>> > dick
>> >
>>
>> Who do you order fish from online? Looking for a reputable dealer.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Anderson
>> ( 8(|) To email me just pull my_finger
>
>That pet place ( http://www.thatpetplace.com ) should be reputable but give
>dick's preferences first dibs.
>
Actually, I haven't bought any fish at all for 2 years, but I do buy
food and equipment as well as supplies for my dogs from this vendor:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Shop.cfm?N=2004

I did buy some of my fish from Fostersmith and had no problems, but I
also bought from a couple of other vendors and was happy with all of
them. One is now wholesale only.

Rather than give them preference, I would check all sources,
especially if you have specific specisis you want. Drs. Fostersmith
offer a range of fish species, but not always the one I wanted such as
Siamese Algae Eaters. Of course they may offer them now.

dick