Reusing filter media....

[Jim]

Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat. I
have a very general understanding.

Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
running tap water & reuse them?

Here's my filtration set-ups --
SMALL TANKS I use Aqua clear filters that have a sponge in the bottom &
a net bag of ceramic stuff on top of that.
LARGE TANKS I use Penguin bio-wheel filters, that take replaceable
cartridges.

Here's my limited understanding of filtration:

1. The water has to go through something to take the chunks out.
(Sponges on the Aqua clear, cartridges on the Penguins).

2. It's nice for the filter to send the water through something well
aged in the tank w/ lots of surface area for friendly bacteria to grow
on (ceramic doo hickeys on the Aquaclear, bio wheels on the Penguin.

3. Some folks like charcoal, most seem to think it's only needed to
remove medication or some other dissolved substance from the water. I
follow this latter school of thought.

4. I've seen a number of folks suggest rinsing out filter media in a
seperate container of tank water & reusing the media (presumably tank
water to preserve the bacteria), and suggestions for reusing filter
cartridge by cutting off the old filter fabric & rubber banding on new.

5. Of course the manufacuturers seem to be strong on replacing clogged
cartridge w/ brand new cartridges.

The rinsing in tank water makes sense to me, but it's a bit of a hassle
& it seems difficult to get several cartridge clean without constantly
changing the tank water in the rinse-out container.

On the other hand, it's easy for me to rinse out the cartridges (or
sponges) in hot running tap water, and it seems to get most of the
sludge out.

My reasoning was that if it's ok to totally replace clogged cartridges
w/ new ones as the manufacturers suggest, and it's ok to reuse media as
the helpful folks online suggest, wouldn't it be ok to re-use rinsed
out media, even if most of the bacteria is killed by the rinsing
process? I'm count on the never-rinsed, never-replaced ceramic dealies
and bio wheels to maintain a resonable level of good bacteria.

I've tried all methods (replace cartridges, rinse in tank water, rinse
in tap water, make your own cartridges), and all seem to work ok.

Am I missing anything? I know the charocal in the Penguin cartridges
gets used up fast, is there any harm in leaving the old charcoal (a bit
difficult & messy to remove) in the rinsed out cartridges for reuse?

Thanks in advance -- Jim

[Billy]

"Jim" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat.
> I
> have a very general understanding.
>
> Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
> running tap water & reuse them?
>


Naturally, the manufacturers would prefer you buy new carts. <g> I
have 2 emperor 280's and have never bought replacement cartridges for
them. As long as the bacterial colony is large enough in other places
(i.e. bio-wheel) to support the fishload, rinsing that media off in
the sink won't cause any trouble. In a heavily stocked tank, it would
make me rather nervous, as the bacteria in the cartridge are probably
needed.
FWIW, I am also a firm believer that the big push to use carbon
is largely driven by the people who make the carbon! I use it on an
'as needed' basis only.



--
Billy
----
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[Daniel Morrow]

"Jim" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat. I
> have a very general understanding.
>
> Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
> running tap water & reuse them?
>
> Here's my filtration set-ups --
> SMALL TANKS I use Aqua clear filters that have a sponge in the bottom &
> a net bag of ceramic stuff on top of that.
> LARGE TANKS I use Penguin bio-wheel filters, that take replaceable
> cartridges.
>
> Here's my limited understanding of filtration:
>
> 1. The water has to go through something to take the chunks out.
> (Sponges on the Aqua clear, cartridges on the Penguins).
>
> 2. It's nice for the filter to send the water through something well
> aged in the tank w/ lots of surface area for friendly bacteria to grow
> on (ceramic doo hickeys on the Aquaclear, bio wheels on the Penguin.
>
> 3. Some folks like charcoal, most seem to think it's only needed to
> remove medication or some other dissolved substance from the water. I
> follow this latter school of thought.
>
> 4. I've seen a number of folks suggest rinsing out filter media in a
> seperate container of tank water & reusing the media (presumably tank
> water to preserve the bacteria), and suggestions for reusing filter
> cartridge by cutting off the old filter fabric & rubber banding on new.
>
> 5. Of course the manufacuturers seem to be strong on replacing clogged
> cartridge w/ brand new cartridges.
>
> The rinsing in tank water makes sense to me, but it's a bit of a hassle
> & it seems difficult to get several cartridge clean without constantly
> changing the tank water in the rinse-out container.
>
> On the other hand, it's easy for me to rinse out the cartridges (or
> sponges) in hot running tap water, and it seems to get most of the
> sludge out.
>
> My reasoning was that if it's ok to totally replace clogged cartridges
> w/ new ones as the manufacturers suggest, and it's ok to reuse media as
> the helpful folks online suggest, wouldn't it be ok to re-use rinsed
> out media, even if most of the bacteria is killed by the rinsing
> process? I'm count on the never-rinsed, never-replaced ceramic dealies
> and bio wheels to maintain a resonable level of good bacteria.
>
> I've tried all methods (replace cartridges, rinse in tank water, rinse
> in tap water, make your own cartridges), and all seem to work ok.
>
> Am I missing anything? I know the charocal in the Penguin cartridges
> gets used up fast, is there any harm in leaving the old charcoal (a bit
> difficult & messy to remove) in the rinsed out cartridges for reuse?
>
> Thanks in advance -- Jim
>

I believe you are correct. I don't see any problem reusing rinsed cartridges
as long as you correctly use the biological filtration via the biowheels and
ceramic noodles. Admittedly though I have been having an issue with my
silver dollar tank only recently. The water has been cloudy ever since I
started using that pet place fish brand flake food and I started washing the
biowheel pro 60 sponge prefilter plus washing out the hagen 20 powerhead's
sponge prefilter, plus at around the same time as those changes I changed 45
percent of the water but I think I did that after the water started getting
cloudy so I think I can rule that out. A couple of hours ago I finished a
1-2 hour run of my vortex diatomaceous filter in that tank and now the water
is perfectly clear (but for how long?). I had never had to use the vortex on
this tank before and the tank has been doing great for over a year now.
Summary - it seems like the repeated squeezing of the biowheel sponge
prefilter (and the hagen 20 powerhead's sponge prefilter) under running tap
water caused the clouding. It is interesting as the biowheel pro 60 should
have the beneficial bacteria but I am starting to wonder if the sponge
prefilters had the beneficial bacteria all along since they are the first
colonizable media the bugs come in contact with? Time and trial and error
will tell I guess. Don't get me wrong - I love the vortex filter but
innerspace products needs to invent more tools to use with the vortex xl as
without those supposed tools it's too easy to have mishaps with the xl that
causes water spills. Tank mounting the hoses would be nice if easier plus a
better way to charge the filter and prevent diatomaceous earth from getting
into the tank. Later!

[Elaine T]

Jim wrote:
> Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat. I
> have a very general understanding.
>
> Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
> running tap water & reuse them?
>
> Here's my filtration set-ups --
> SMALL TANKS I use Aqua clear filters that have a sponge in the bottom &
> a net bag of ceramic stuff on top of that.
> LARGE TANKS I use Penguin bio-wheel filters, that take replaceable
> cartridges.
>
> Here's my limited understanding of filtration:
>
> 1. The water has to go through something to take the chunks out.
> (Sponges on the Aqua clear, cartridges on the Penguins).
>
> 2. It's nice for the filter to send the water through something well
> aged in the tank w/ lots of surface area for friendly bacteria to grow
> on (ceramic doo hickeys on the Aquaclear, bio wheels on the Penguin.
>
> 3. Some folks like charcoal, most seem to think it's only needed to
> remove medication or some other dissolved substance from the water. I
> follow this latter school of thought.
>
> 4. I've seen a number of folks suggest rinsing out filter media in a
> seperate container of tank water & reusing the media (presumably tank
> water to preserve the bacteria), and suggestions for reusing filter
> cartridge by cutting off the old filter fabric & rubber banding on new.
>
> 5. Of course the manufacuturers seem to be strong on replacing clogged
> cartridge w/ brand new cartridges.
>
> The rinsing in tank water makes sense to me, but it's a bit of a hassle
> & it seems difficult to get several cartridge clean without constantly
> changing the tank water in the rinse-out container.
>
> On the other hand, it's easy for me to rinse out the cartridges (or
> sponges) in hot running tap water, and it seems to get most of the
> sludge out.
>
> My reasoning was that if it's ok to totally replace clogged cartridges
> w/ new ones as the manufacturers suggest, and it's ok to reuse media as
> the helpful folks online suggest, wouldn't it be ok to re-use rinsed
> out media, even if most of the bacteria is killed by the rinsing
> process? I'm count on the never-rinsed, never-replaced ceramic dealies
> and bio wheels to maintain a resonable level of good bacteria.
>
> I've tried all methods (replace cartridges, rinse in tank water, rinse
> in tap water, make your own cartridges), and all seem to work ok.
>
> Am I missing anything? I know the charocal in the Penguin cartridges
> gets used up fast, is there any harm in leaving the old charcoal (a bit
> difficult & messy to remove) in the rinsed out cartridges for reuse?
>
> Thanks in advance -- Jim
>
I've used AquaClears for years with the same sponge. Rinse the sponge
and biomedia in tank temperature tap water rather than hot and you won't
kill off too many bacteria. The sponge grows so many bacteria that
AquaClears didn't used to be sold with separate biomedia. I use the
sponges until they fall apart. I don't know how long the new biomedia
is good for, but I expect its pores will clog with bacteria over time.
I plan to replace it every couple of years.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/

[Daniel Morrow]

"Elaine T" > wrote in message
. com...
> Jim wrote:
> > Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat. I
> > have a very general understanding.
> >
> > Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
> > running tap water & reuse them?
> >
> > Here's my filtration set-ups --
> > SMALL TANKS I use Aqua clear filters that have a sponge in the bottom &
> > a net bag of ceramic stuff on top of that.
> > LARGE TANKS I use Penguin bio-wheel filters, that take replaceable
> > cartridges.
> >
> > Here's my limited understanding of filtration:
> >
> > 1. The water has to go through something to take the chunks out.
> > (Sponges on the Aqua clear, cartridges on the Penguins).
> >
> > 2. It's nice for the filter to send the water through something well
> > aged in the tank w/ lots of surface area for friendly bacteria to grow
> > on (ceramic doo hickeys on the Aquaclear, bio wheels on the Penguin.
> >
> > 3. Some folks like charcoal, most seem to think it's only needed to
> > remove medication or some other dissolved substance from the water. I
> > follow this latter school of thought.
> >
> > 4. I've seen a number of folks suggest rinsing out filter media in a
> > seperate container of tank water & reusing the media (presumably tank
> > water to preserve the bacteria), and suggestions for reusing filter
> > cartridge by cutting off the old filter fabric & rubber banding on new.
> >
> > 5. Of course the manufacuturers seem to be strong on replacing clogged
> > cartridge w/ brand new cartridges.
> >
> > The rinsing in tank water makes sense to me, but it's a bit of a hassle
> > & it seems difficult to get several cartridge clean without constantly
> > changing the tank water in the rinse-out container.
> >
> > On the other hand, it's easy for me to rinse out the cartridges (or
> > sponges) in hot running tap water, and it seems to get most of the
> > sludge out.
> >
> > My reasoning was that if it's ok to totally replace clogged cartridges
> > w/ new ones as the manufacturers suggest, and it's ok to reuse media as
> > the helpful folks online suggest, wouldn't it be ok to re-use rinsed
> > out media, even if most of the bacteria is killed by the rinsing
> > process? I'm count on the never-rinsed, never-replaced ceramic dealies
> > and bio wheels to maintain a resonable level of good bacteria.
> >
> > I've tried all methods (replace cartridges, rinse in tank water, rinse
> > in tap water, make your own cartridges), and all seem to work ok.
> >
> > Am I missing anything? I know the charocal in the Penguin cartridges
> > gets used up fast, is there any harm in leaving the old charcoal (a bit
> > difficult & messy to remove) in the rinsed out cartridges for reuse?
> >
> > Thanks in advance -- Jim
> >
> I've used AquaClears for years with the same sponge. Rinse the sponge
> and biomedia in tank temperature tap water rather than hot and you won't
> kill off too many bacteria. The sponge grows so many bacteria that
> AquaClears didn't used to be sold with separate biomedia. I use the
> sponges until they fall apart. I don't know how long the new biomedia
> is good for, but I expect its pores will clog with bacteria over time.
> I plan to replace it every couple of years.
>
> --
> Elaine T __
> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><
> rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
> PGP key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/

You're right Elaine - hagen recommends changing the biomax media
approximately 2 or 3 times a year if my memory serves correctly. Biomax
media is the ceramic noodles with microscopic holes that allow colonizing
bacteria to grow. Later!

[Dick]

On 22 May 2005 15:53:15 -0700, "Jim" > wrote:

>Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat. I
>have a very general understanding.
>
>Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
>running tap water & reuse them?
>
>Here's my filtration set-ups --
>SMALL TANKS I use Aqua clear filters that have a sponge in the bottom &
>a net bag of ceramic stuff on top of that.
>LARGE TANKS I use Penguin bio-wheel filters, that take replaceable
>cartridges.
>
>Here's my limited understanding of filtration:
>
>1. The water has to go through something to take the chunks out.
>(Sponges on the Aqua clear, cartridges on the Penguins).
>
>2. It's nice for the filter to send the water through something well
>aged in the tank w/ lots of surface area for friendly bacteria to grow
>on (ceramic doo hickeys on the Aquaclear, bio wheels on the Penguin.
>
>3. Some folks like charcoal, most seem to think it's only needed to
>remove medication or some other dissolved substance from the water. I
>follow this latter school of thought.
>
>4. I've seen a number of folks suggest rinsing out filter media in a
>seperate container of tank water & reusing the media (presumably tank
>water to preserve the bacteria), and suggestions for reusing filter
>cartridge by cutting off the old filter fabric & rubber banding on new.
>
>5. Of course the manufacuturers seem to be strong on replacing clogged
>cartridge w/ brand new cartridges.
>
>The rinsing in tank water makes sense to me, but it's a bit of a hassle
>& it seems difficult to get several cartridge clean without constantly
>changing the tank water in the rinse-out container.
>
>On the other hand, it's easy for me to rinse out the cartridges (or
>sponges) in hot running tap water, and it seems to get most of the
>sludge out.
>
>My reasoning was that if it's ok to totally replace clogged cartridges
>w/ new ones as the manufacturers suggest, and it's ok to reuse media as
>the helpful folks online suggest, wouldn't it be ok to re-use rinsed
>out media, even if most of the bacteria is killed by the rinsing
>process? I'm count on the never-rinsed, never-replaced ceramic dealies
>and bio wheels to maintain a resonable level of good bacteria.
>
>I've tried all methods (replace cartridges, rinse in tank water, rinse
>in tap water, make your own cartridges), and all seem to work ok.
>
>Am I missing anything? I know the charocal in the Penguin cartridges
>gets used up fast, is there any harm in leaving the old charcoal (a bit
>difficult & messy to remove) in the rinsed out cartridges for reuse?
>
>Thanks in advance -- Jim


Hi Jim,

I think filtration complexity is over blown. I have 5 tanks ranging
in size from 10 to 75. The filters are 3 Whisper Juniors, one to a
tank, 2 Penguin 330s and a 29 gallon with a proprietary power filter.
I have removed all charcoal many months ago. I got tired of cleaning
the Penguins just so the bio wheels would turn, and noticed that the
other 4 tanks were doing well without the wheels, so I removed the
Penguins' wheels.

What is left, filter media. What does filter media do, hold waste
material large enough to not go through the mesh. There is nothing
active about the media. I am sure that erosion reduces large
particles and they eventually return to the tank. So, I clean the
filter media. I see no reason to replace it so long as cleaning
allows the water to flow through.

Since I clean the filter media in tap water and probably kill off the
bacteria with no loss of tank cycling, I suspect that the gravel is
keeping enough live bacteria to replenish the filter.

My theories may not be accurate, but there is no arguing with the
results, my tanks are crystal clear and stay that way. All of my tank
populations exceed one inch of fish to a gallon of water. All have
live plants. The 5 tanks have 14 species between them.

I respect those that like to do more complicated things with their
tanks. This is a hobby and offers opportunities to be an artist, a
gardener, a chemist, a doctor as well as a fisherman, but for me, I
want the maintenance to be simple. I do 20% water changes twice
weekly. I don't like to modify the water conditions.

Reuse filter media? You bet.

dick

[NetMax]

"Jim" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, I sure don't have all the tech stuff about filtration down pat. I
> have a very general understanding.
>
> Here's my question -- Why not rinse out old filter cartridges in
> running tap water & reuse them?

Because chlorine kills bacteria, and there are situations where this
would upset your cycle (ie: overstocked conditions, no gravel, no plants,
one filter, no bio-wheel etc). In a normal tank (gravel, real plants,
not overstocked or overfed) there is probably no concern.

> Here's my filtration set-ups --
> SMALL TANKS I use Aqua clear filters that have a sponge in the bottom &
> a net bag of ceramic stuff on top of that.
> LARGE TANKS I use Penguin bio-wheel filters, that take replaceable
> cartridges.
>
> Here's my limited understanding of filtration:
>
> 1. The water has to go through something to take the chunks out.
> (Sponges on the Aqua clear, cartridges on the Penguins).

yup, solids you can see

> 2. It's nice for the filter to send the water through something well
> aged in the tank w/ lots of surface area for friendly bacteria to grow
> on (ceramic doo hickeys on the Aquaclear, bio wheels on the Penguin.

yup, stuff you can't see

> 3. Some folks like charcoal, most seem to think it's only needed to
> remove medication or some other dissolved substance from the water. I
> follow this latter school of thought.

Essentially - its value varies by the condition of your tap water as
well.

> 4. I've seen a number of folks suggest rinsing out filter media in a
> seperate container of tank water & reusing the media (presumably tank
> water to preserve the bacteria), and suggestions for reusing filter
> cartridge by cutting off the old filter fabric & rubber banding on new.

The less you know about the particulars of someone's tanks, the more
conservative the advice becomes (understandably).

> 5. Of course the manufacuturers seem to be strong on replacing clogged
> cartridge w/ brand new cartridges.

Big time! Lots of profits there ;~), however for a normally stocked
tank, regularly changing the media and having fresh carbon will be
beneficial. Some hobbyists will simply change cartridges every month and
don't know/care about alternatives.

> The rinsing in tank water makes sense to me, but it's a bit of a hassle
> & it seems difficult to get several cartridge clean without constantly
> changing the tank water in the rinse-out container.

You really only need to clean them enough for water to pass through
easily. The water flow brings the O2 to keep your bacteria working.

> On the other hand, it's easy for me to rinse out the cartridges (or
> sponges) in hot running tap water, and it seems to get most of the
> sludge out.

Just temperature match approximately. On well water this works
perfectly. On city water, using tank water is another precaution to use
at your discretion.

> My reasoning was that if it's ok to totally replace clogged cartridges
> w/ new ones as the manufacturers suggest, and it's ok to reuse media as
> the helpful folks online suggest, wouldn't it be ok to re-use rinsed
> out media, even if most of the bacteria is killed by the rinsing
> process? I'm count on the never-rinsed, never-replaced ceramic dealies
> and bio wheels to maintain a resonable level of good bacteria.

The only flaw in your logic is that it's not always ok to just change the
cartridge as it can result in a mini-cycle. Also I would not count much
on your ceramic noodles for providing a significant portion of your
aerobic nitrifying bacteria. They were really designed for a bacteria
which removes NO3, and it's probably fair to say that they
unexceptionally do both (NH3-4/NO2 & NO3). With the AC filters, I like
using 2 filter sponges, rotating them when I clean only the bottom one.
A bag of noodles in between won't cause any trouble. I would rinse the
bag out periodically, to keep the fissure openings clear (for this I
would use tank water as it takes months to properly colonize noodles).

> I've tried all methods (replace cartridges, rinse in tank water, rinse
> in tap water, make your own cartridges), and all seem to work ok.

Not to be facitious, but lots of things can seem to work when the
symptoms are invisible ;~), though you have all your facts essentially
correct (imo). I don't know anyone who has graphed NH3 levels after
servicing their filters. It would be interesting to try if the equipment
was available, but the data would only be of minimal use as everyone's
applications vary so much.

> Am I missing anything? I know the charocal in the Penguin cartridges
> gets used up fast, is there any harm in leaving the old charcoal (a bit
> difficult & messy to remove) in the rinsed out cartridges for reuse?

In theory, the carbon's grip on the particles it filtered out weakens
with time, and it will start releasing the compounds back into the water.
Then it just becomes more surface for your nitrifying bacteria. I've
read in various sources that the active life of carbon is between 1 and
20 days, and beyond 60, it's probably starting to release back into the
water (however several of the sources were newsgroups and web sites ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Thanks in advance -- Jim
>

[Jim]

Thanks! Great group -- I can always count on helpful, knowledgable,
and entertaining advice! -- Jim