Do goldfish need a HEATER? Please help.

[Lucky]

Hey everyone.

It's approaching winter in Australia and I have noticed the temperature
in my fish tank has dropped as the weather is getting colder. In the
warmer months the temperature ranged from 25C (77F) to 27C (81F) and
the fish didn't have a problem with this fluctuation. Now the water
temperature is about 21C (70F).

I have noticed that a couple of the fish (I have three) are hanging out
in the little cave ornaments (just sitting in there)and are not as
active- I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the temperature
but it could, as no other conditions have changed and they have no
other signs of illness.

Before buying a heater I decided to read up on the net about whether or
not this is necessary and there are many varying opinions:

Some say the temp should be kept steady or the fih will be shocked.
Some say the temp can fluctuate from warm to nearly freezing and the
fish can easily cope with this.
Most say a heater is not necessary.

So I would like your opinions- please tell me what is successful for
your fish and also if you have any knowledge about why/why not a heater
should be used?

Thanks for your help!

Alex.

P.S. The tank is kept in an area where there is sunlight however it is
NOT direct sunlight. It just so happens that the house gets a bit cold
in the winter time. So the position of the tank isn't the problem here.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

I always keep a heater on. Wild fluctations can kill fish.
Mild longer changes are fine.

Changes in the temperature can also bring on breeding behaviour which
isn't necessarily a good thing if you don't have the tanks to cope.

[bettasngoldfish]

Yep, I second that, I always use heaters in my goldie tanks.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Lucky,

First of all Goldfish are cold blood animals, not cold water, but cold
blooded. This means as the temp decreases so does their activity.

I have been keeping, raising and breeding Goldfish for about 40 plus years
and one of the nice things about Goldfish is that do not need heaters. In
the winter here in North Central Oklahoma water temps in my tubs and tanks
hover around the 60 degree range and the fish are fine. Now, for bubbling
activity that decreases. That is the nature of cold blooded animals.

Personally, I think fish live longer when they go through a cooling off
period in the winter. Unless you have a very small tank, water flucuations
are usually slow. If the tank is in a drafty area or next to a cold window
then the tanks temperature may fall quickly.

In my expereince they don't need heaters. My fish are health and live long,
In my ponds outside the temperatures this late winter ranged from 40 to 70
degrees as Spring approached, and several times these temp changes occurred
in one day.

So I say no to heaters.

Tom L.L.
"Lucky" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hey everyone.
>
> It's approaching winter in Australia and I have noticed the temperature
> in my fish tank has dropped as the weather is getting colder. In the
> warmer months the temperature ranged from 25C (77F) to 27C (81F) and
> the fish didn't have a problem with this fluctuation. Now the water
> temperature is about 21C (70F).
>
> I have noticed that a couple of the fish (I have three) are hanging out
> in the little cave ornaments (just sitting in there)and are not as
> active- I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the temperature
> but it could, as no other conditions have changed and they have no
> other signs of illness.
>
> Before buying a heater I decided to read up on the net about whether or
> not this is necessary and there are many varying opinions:
>
> Some say the temp should be kept steady or the fih will be shocked.
> Some say the temp can fluctuate from warm to nearly freezing and the
> fish can easily cope with this.
> Most say a heater is not necessary.
>
> So I would like your opinions- please tell me what is successful for
> your fish and also if you have any knowledge about why/why not a heater
> should be used?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Alex.
>
> P.S. The tank is kept in an area where there is sunlight however it is
> NOT direct sunlight. It just so happens that the house gets a bit cold
> in the winter time. So the position of the tank isn't the problem here.
>

[bassett]

Nope goldfish are coldwater, I can remember years ago, when i was a kid, in
the UK, many,many years ago . My old man had a fish pond, and many a
winter the pond was frozen , and the fish where trapped in the ice, My old
man would crack the ice with a hammer, and the fish would get out and go
deeper in the water.
I,m in Oz now, and also have friends with goldfish, they also don't bother
with heaters.
bassett


Lucky" wrote in message >
It's approaching winter in Australia and I have noticed the temperature
> in my fish tank has dropped as the weather is getting colder. In the
> warmer months the temperature ranged from 25C (77F) to 27C (81F) and
> the fish didn't have a problem with this fluctuation. Now the water
> temperature is about 21C (70F).
>
> Before buying a heater I decided to read up on the net about whether or
> not this is necessary and there are many varying opinions:
>
> Some say the temp should be kept steady or the fih will be shocked.
> Some say the temp can fluctuate from warm to nearly freezing and the
> fish can easily cope with this.
> Most say a heater is not necessary.
>
> So I would like your opinions- please tell me what is successful for
> your fish and also if you have any knowledge about why/why not a heater
> should be used?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Alex.
>
> P.S. The tank is kept in an area where there is sunlight however it is
> NOT direct sunlight. It just so happens that the house gets a bit cold
> in the winter time. So the position of the tank isn't the problem here.
>

[bettasngoldfish]

They don't need them but I feel better knowing that their environment
is stable : ) I remember a story from another goldfish keeper who did
not use heaters in her tanks. She went on vacation in the heat of the
summer and while she was gone the house sitter turned on the air
conditioning. She arrived home to find all her fish had ich due to the
temp. change. Just to clarify, when I said I use heaters in all my
goldie tanks I meant in my fancy goldie tanks. I find my commons to be
much more hardy and do not use a heater in their tank.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

bettasngoldfish wrote:
>
> Just to clarify, when I said I use heaters in all my
> goldie tanks I meant in my fancy goldie tanks. I find my commons to be
> much more hardy and do not use a heater in their tank.

Agreed!

[Tom L. La Bron]

Bettasngoldfish,

Sorry, I would surmise that your friend's fish probably had ich due to some
other reason other than temperature change, especially if the house
environmental system was the reason for the temperature change. The
temperture changes that usually bring on ich in fish is if you raise the
temperature of their environment in a 30 minute period 10 to 20 degrees are
dump a fish in a cold bag of water in to a tank where the water temperature
is 80 degrees. A house system does not change the water temperature that
fast unless the tank is sitting on top of the deliver duct.

As I pointed out, in my pond I have seen the fish go through a 30 degree
temperature change and back again in a two day period and the fish have
never gotten ich or any other disease for that matter.

If your friend was using a fish sitter, that was her first mistake. This
individual probably did something unknowingly that caused the ich. That
would be my guess and the temp differential was blamed.

As far as Fancy (Ornamental) Goldfish go I have Two kinds of Phoenix, Philly
Veils, Ranchus, Orandas and Fantials with double length tails and they are
all treated in the same way. In fact, the Fantails are left outside all
winter.

The individual asked if it was needed, and in my experience it is not.
Whether you use one or not that is matter of convention. Personally, I
think fish live longer if they are given a cooling in the winter, but here
again that is my experience. The last time I had a fish die on me it was 7
years old and after 5 years had been living, off and on, as a serious
floater. At present I am housing approximately 90 fish. The approximation
is because I really do not know how many Bristol Shubunkins I have at the
moment.

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------------
"bettasngoldfish" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> They don't need them but I feel better knowing that their environment
> is stable : ) I remember a story from another goldfish keeper who did
> not use heaters in her tanks. She went on vacation in the heat of the
> summer and while she was gone the house sitter turned on the air
> conditioning. She arrived home to find all her fish had ich due to the
> temp. change. Just to clarify, when I said I use heaters in all my
> goldie tanks I meant in my fancy goldie tanks. I find my commons to be
> much more hardy and do not use a heater in their tank.
>

[Geezer From The Freezer]

bassett wrote:
>
> Nope goldfish are coldwater, I can remember years ago, when i was a kid, in
> the UK, many,many years ago . My old man had a fish pond, and many a
> winter the pond was frozen , and the fish where trapped in the ice, My old
> man would crack the ice with a hammer, and the fish would get out and go
> deeper in the water.
> I,m in Oz now, and also have friends with goldfish, they also don't bother
> with heaters.

They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a cage, but it
wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Tom,

Your pond fish are probably torpedo shaped fish (i.e. common, shubs or comets).
They tend to be more resistant to disease than fancies (from my experience).

What I have found in the past is severe swings, highs to low to highs
due to heating in house going off and on over night that fancies
will get ich due to this more frequently.

[[email protected]]

I keep my goldfish and koi outside all winter and they do just fine. I
have about 18 fish and they all survived the winter and are healthy.

The fish stop eating when the water temperature drops below about 50
deg F. When the temperature drops below about 40 deg F they go into a
topor. A small electric heater maintains a hole in the ice, and a
bubbler provides gas exchange.

Last New Years eve, when the temperature was about -15 deg F, my heater
quit. I boiled pots of water and every several hours went outside and
melted a hole in the ice. There was no way I was going to stay outside
for half an hour and try to hammer through 6 inches of ice. Regardless
of my comfort and frost bite concerns; I believe that the shock to the
fish from hammering can be harmful.

Apparently my neighbor from across the street saw me going outside at
all hours of the day and night, doing something at my fish pond that
caused huge billows of steam to rise. When he saw me a few days later,
he asked if this was some sort of pagan New Year rite. I told him yes,
the hot water was an offering to the great carp god.

[bettasngoldfish]

Apparently my neighbor from across the street saw me going outside at
all hours of the day and night, doing something at my fish pond that
caused huge billows of steam to rise. When he saw me a few days later,

he asked if this was some sort of pagan New Year rite. I told him yes,

the hot water was an offering to the great carp god.

LOL! Now that is too funny!

[bettasngoldfish]

They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a
cage, but it
wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.

Exactly!

[Lucky]

OK thanks for all your replies- i now have about 15 differnt answers
haha. Most of you are saying no heater. That's fine. I'll go with the
no heater. But why is one of my fish just hanging out in the bottom of
the cave ornament? This has been going on for about a week. It just
comes out to eat. It has no other signs of distress... no spots, ripped
fins, or anything like that. The other two fish are fine and swim
around like normal. What could be the deal?

[Tom L. La Bron]

Geezer,

Nope, my Philly Veils, Ranchus, Oranda, Phoenix are outside also. I put
them out early in the Spring. I bring all in, but the Comets and Fantails,
put in the early Spring And Fall, when the whole gang are outside, is
usually when the are the largest tempflucations and the gang are just fine.

The only fish I really worry about are the Philly Veils, because in my
expereince they die off in water that is colder than 55 degrees, if left too
long, so in the Fall, when I am thinking about getting fish insde, they are
the first to come and the last to go out in the Spring. Other than that
except they are outside most of time. I usually start thinking about bring
my fish in November, unless the Fall is early and cold that year, and put
the Fish out in March.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------
"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tom,
>
> Your pond fish are probably torpedo shaped fish (i.e. common, shubs or
> comets).
> They tend to be more resistant to disease than fancies (from my
> experience).
>
> What I have found in the past is severe swings, highs to low to highs
> due to heating in house going off and on over night that fancies
> will get ich due to this more frequently.

[Tom L. La Bron]

Bettasngoldfish,

First of all let me state that Goldfish are not, I repeat, not Cold water
fish. I coldwater fish lives and breeds in water that never gets over 60
degrees. 70 degree water is consider hot to them.

Goldfish was designated as Warm Water fish. This just means that they can
survive in Coldwater. Goldfish in Coldwater are lethargic; A coldwater fish
in Cold water is active.

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------------
"bettasngoldfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a
> cage, but it
> wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.
>
> Exactly!
>

[bassett]

For thousands of years goldfish have been breed in China in COLD water,
Just a short distance from me , there is a Koi and Goldfish hatchery, No I
don,t live in China. I,m in OZ, No not the prison series on the tellie.
Large outside galvanised tanks are used, with shades over the top, to keep
the sun from cooking them, and there all UNHEATED, There also there in both
summer and winter. The place is also a Goat farm, and the goats wonder
between the tanks. Guess where they get a drink.
I don,t want to get into a debate about the why's and wherefore's but I
think your slightly incorrect in your thinking.
bassett

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Bettasngoldfish,
>
> First of all let me state that Goldfish are not, I repeat, not Cold water
> fish. I coldwater fish lives and breeds in water that never gets over 60
> degrees. 70 degree water is consider hot to them.
>
> Goldfish was designated as Warm Water fish. This just means that they can
> survive in Coldwater. Goldfish in Coldwater are lethargic; A coldwater
> fish in Cold water is active.
>
> Tom L.L.
> ------------------------------------------------
> "bettasngoldfish" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a
>> cage, but it
>> wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.
>>
>> Exactly!
>>
>
>

[Tom L. La Bron]

Bassett,

I don't know what part you are disagreeing with, but all you have to do is
go to and look in any aquaculture literature with fish types are listed and
you will see that Goldfish are listed as Warm Water fish.

Hey, some times in the winter I have 4 inches of ice on my ponds and the
Goldfish are just fine in the Spring, but that doesn't make them Coldwater
fish. Cold water fish breed and move about gingerly in 50 degree water.
Goldfish have already started to slow down and are lethargic in 50 degree
water. Sure if stimulated they will move quickly around the pond, but they
do it only briefly..

Tom L.L.
"bassett" > wrote in message
...
> For thousands of years goldfish have been breed in China in COLD water,
> Just a short distance from me , there is a Koi and Goldfish hatchery, No I
> don,t live in China. I,m in OZ, No not the prison series on the tellie.
> Large outside galvanised tanks are used, with shades over the top, to keep
> the sun from cooking them, and there all UNHEATED, There also there in
> both summer and winter. The place is also a Goat farm, and the goats
> wonder between the tanks. Guess where they get a drink.
> I don,t want to get into a debate about the why's and wherefore's but I
> think your slightly incorrect in your thinking.
> bassett
>
> "Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bettasngoldfish,
>>
>> First of all let me state that Goldfish are not, I repeat, not Cold water
>> fish. I coldwater fish lives and breeds in water that never gets over 60
>> degrees. 70 degree water is consider hot to them.
>>
>> Goldfish was designated as Warm Water fish. This just means that they
>> can survive in Coldwater. Goldfish in Coldwater are lethargic; A
>> coldwater fish in Cold water is active.
>>
>> Tom L.L.
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> "bettasngoldfish" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a
>>> cage, but it
>>> wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.
>>>
>>> Exactly!
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[bassett]

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
> Bassett,
>
> I don't know what part you are disagreeing with,

Just about everything, "Ducky"

> but all you have to do is go to and look in any aquaculture literature
> with > fish types are listed and you will see that Goldfish are listed
> as Warm Water fish.

Incorrect.

> Hey, some times in the winter I have 4 inches of ice on my ponds and
> the Goldfish are just fine in the Spring, but that doesn't make them
> Coldwater fish.

Right, Now I understand. "Bangs head on wall"

>Cold water fish breed and move about gingerly in 50 degree water.

What would they be, can't be Goldfish, You said that Goldfish where
NOT cold water fish.

> Goldfish have already started to slow down and are lethargic in 50 degree
> water. Sure if stimulated they will move quickly around the
> pond, but they do it only briefly..

Runs up to the house for a bucket of Steam.

> Tom L.L.

> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>> For thousands of years goldfish have been breed in China in COLD water,
>> Just a short distance from me , there is a Koi and Goldfish hatchery, No
>> I don,t live in China. I,m in OZ, No not the prison series on the tellie.
>> Large outside galvanised tanks are used, with shades over the top, to
>> keep the sun from cooking them, and there all UNHEATED, There also there
>> in both summer and winter. The place is also a Goat farm, and the goats
>> wonder between the tanks. Guess where they get a drink.
>> I don,t want to get into a debate about the why's and wherefore's but I
>> think your slightly incorrect in your thinking.
>> bassett
>>
>> "Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Bettasngoldfish,
>>>
>>> First of all let me state that Goldfish are not, I repeat, not Cold
>>> water fish. I coldwater fish lives and breeds in water that never gets
>>> over 60 degrees. 70 degree water is consider hot to them.
>>>
>>> Goldfish was designated as Warm Water fish. This just means that they
>>> can survive in Coldwater. Goldfish in Coldwater are lethargic; A
>>> coldwater fish in Cold water is active.
>>>
>>> Tom L.L.
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> "bettasngoldfish" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a
>>>> cage, but it
>>>> wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[jc]

> They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a cage,
> but it
> wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.

Goldfish has a natural hibernation cycle, dogs dont. While they are moving a
lot, but keeping them at warm temp year round is more out of the norm.

jc

[jc]

> Your pond fish are probably torpedo shaped fish (i.e. common, shubs or
> comets).

"As far as Fancy (Ornamental) Goldfish go I have Two kinds of Phoenix,
Philly
Veils, Ranchus, Orandas and Fantials with double length tails and they are
all treated in the same way. In fact, the Fantails are left outside all
winter."

The fish listed by Tom are hardly "tropedo shaped" nor common.

jc

[Angrie.Woman]

"Lucky" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> OK thanks for all your replies- i now have about 15 differnt answers
> haha. Most of you are saying no heater. That's fine. I'll go with the
> no heater. But why is one of my fish just hanging out in the bottom of
> the cave ornament? This has been going on for about a week. It just
> comes out to eat. It has no other signs of distress... no spots, ripped
> fins, or anything like that. The other two fish are fine and swim
> around like normal. What could be the deal?
>

Maybe he's pouting because you're not going to buy a heater?

What's the water temp? They slow down when it gets colder.

A

[Geezer From The Freezer]

jc wrote:
>
> > They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a cage,
> > but it
> > wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.
>
> Goldfish has a natural hibernation cycle, dogs dont. While they are moving a
> lot, but keeping them at warm temp year round is more out of the norm.
>
> jc

Is a bear a cold climate creature because it survives in the cold
by going to sleep for months?

[Geezer From The Freezer]

jc wrote:
>
> > They live in coldwater, but hardly thrive. A dog could be kept in a cage,
> > but it
> > wouldn't be classed as a cage animal.
>
> Goldfish has a natural hibernation cycle, dogs dont. While they are moving a
> lot, but keeping them at warm temp year round is more out of the norm.
>
> jc

Also keeping fish in tanks isn't the norm either to their natural environment.

[jc]

> Is a bear a cold climate creature because it survives in the cold
> by going to sleep for months?

LOL, you dont keep a polar bear in Florda w/o setting an enviornment for it,
just as you do not keep a brown bear at the North Pole.

Goldfish take advantage of their hybernation cycle and it is during those
months their eggs develop and their young grow during the spring/summer
times. The cycle gives them the growth and rest period as nature intends.

Yes, keeping them in a tank is also not as good as keeping them in a pond,
hence why two fish of the same age/size can have a drastic grow difference
when one is kept in a tank vs a pond.

Goldfish are not tropical fish, just because they can live in tropical fish
temps do not mean that is the best for them.

jc

[Geezer From The Freezer]

jc wrote:
>
> Goldfish are not tropical fish, just because they can live in tropical fish
> temps do not mean that is the best for them.
>
> jc

So are they coldwater, just because they can live (albeit, in almost hybernation
mode)
in cold water?

[jc]

> So are they coldwater, just because they can live (albeit, in almost
> hybernation
> mode)
> in cold water?

Tropical fish like the upper 70s and will die when the temp drops into the
60s. Coldwater fish typically likes the mid 60 to 70s, but do go into both
the lower and higher ranges. Ever wonder why most of the aquarium heaters
has a low temp at 68-71?

Goldfish is most active when the temp are in the upper 60s and lower 70s,
but they are activeand eat when the temp are in the 50s, and go into
dormancy when the water temp drops below 50 into the 40s. Goldfish need that
dormant period to allow the eggs to development. Tropical fish dont.

If you keep your goldfish in the tropical range year round, you may not have
many offspring as you would with tropical fish.

jc